Indian and Chinese troops in Moscow

miharo

Padawan Learner
Indian troops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FcFMuLr7TRs#t=2314
and Chinese troops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FcFMuLr7TRs#t=2376
marching in Moscow's Red Square.

What a shift in global geopolitics and what an upcoming battle front against the so called “West”.
I wonder where Israel will find its new paladin...
 
Very interesting...

In the words of Franklin D. Roosevelt:

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.

Troops from Serbia, Belarus, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Mongolia were also marching:
_http://ru-facts.com/news/view/46118.html

The attendees included:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/Putin-brushes-off-Western-snub-at-huge-WWII-victory-parade/articleshow/47214774.cms said:
China's president Xi Jinping, United Nations chief Ban Ki-moon, India's President Pranab Mukherjee, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi of Egypt, Raul Castro of Cuba, Nicolas Maduro of Venezuela, Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe and Jacob Zuma of South Africa.

When one has followed the developments in global poitics of the last couple of months closely, then this is most likely another definite sign from russia and the alliance it is building with others countries, towards the western elites. I have the feeling by now that it is basically Putins very smart (scratch that: it is genius) diplomacy. Don't mess with us, we are uniting or already united.

Chinas president for example made very interesting and pretty clear statements towards Russia (and the west) a couple of days ago:

MOSCOW, May 7 (Xinhua) --

Chinese President Xi Jinping on Thursday praised the sacrifices and contributions China and Russia made to WWII and their mutual wartime support while urging all nations to adopt win-win cooperation as a basic policy orientation in dealing with international affairs.

Xi, who has just arrived in Kazakhstan for a state visit, will later travel to Moscow to attend the Victory Parade marking the 70th anniversary of the end of the Great Patriotic War, Russia's term for WWII, and hold talks with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin to strengthen bilateral ties.

CONTRIBUTIONS OF CHINA, RUSSIA TO WWII

"Looking back into history, the wars of invasion started by Fascism and militarism inflicted unprecedented disasters and catastrophe on Asian and European countries, including China and Russia and many countries in other regions as well as their peoples," Xi said in a signed article carried by the state-run newspaper Russian Gazette.

Xi praised efforts spared decades ago by people from more than 50 countries including China and Russia and all peace-loving people in forming a universal Anti-Fascist and Anti-Militarism United Front.

They fought jointly and defeated the barbarian invaders in life-and-death battles between justice and evil, light and darkness, freedom and slavery, Xi said.

Up to 27 million Russians and their brotherly minorities, Xi said, sacrificed their lives for the victory of the Great Patriotic War as Russia was the main European battlefield in WWII.

In March 2013, Xi laid a wreath at the Tomb of Unknown Soldiers at the Red Square in downtown Moscow during his first state visit to Russia.

"Despite that your names are unsung, your contributions and glories will be remembered forever," Xi said then.

As the main Asian battlefield in the Anti-Fascist War, China made as many great sacrifices as Russia.

In the Chinese People's War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression that started as early as 1937, the Chinese defeated the invaders after eight years of unyielding and arduous fighting, diminishing much of Japan's military strength and preventing it from diverting its resources and therefore warfare to other regions.

The Chinese nation, whose 35 million people were killed or injured for the victory of the war against Japanese invasion, made tremendous contributions to the victory of the World Anti-Fascist War, which, like that of Russia, will be forever remembered in history, Xi said.

MUTUAL WARTIME SUPPORT

The Chinese and Russian people supported and fought alongside each other and forged friendship with blood and lives in the war against Fascism and militarism, the Chinese leader said.

In the toughest moment of the Great Patriotic War, many death-defying Chinese devoted themselves to aiding China's neighboring ally.

Mao Anying, son of the late Chinese leader Mao Zedong, served as an artillery officer of the First Belarusian Front under the Soviet Union Red Army. He helped fight Nazi Germany and capture Berlin, while Chinese pilot Tang Duo joined the Soviet Air Force and achieved great feats in the aerial combat against Fascist troops.

During wartime, Ivanovo International Orphanage, a boarding school for children of revolutionaries around the world located 250 km northeast of Moscow, sheltered many offspring of Chinese martyrs.

Despite their tender age, those children volunteered to dig trenches, make clothes, prepare food and other supplies. Some even donated blood monthly to front-line soldiers.

During the Chinese People's War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, the Soviet Union provided valuable political and humanitarian support to China as well as large quantities of supplies and equipment for the Chinese people, Xi noted.

To help combat the Japanese invaders, more than 2,000 Soviet pilots in volunteer squadrons came and defended China's airspace, while the Soviet Red Army fought shoulder by shoulder with Chinese troops in Northeast China at the war's final stage.

The Chinese people will always remember those Russian soldiers and the people who died supporting the independence and liberation of the Chinese nation, Xi said.

REMEMBER HISTORY, PURSUE WIN-WIN COOPERATION

"If we lost the memory of our past, our mind and soul would be lost in the darkness," Xi quoted Russian historian Vasily Klyuchevsky.

This year, China and Russia will hold a series of celebrations to demonstrate their resolve in safeguarding the WWII victory and international justice while calling for people around the world to cherish hard-won peace.

"To forget the past means to betray," Xi said. "The two peoples of China and Russia will stand together with all peace-loving nations and people firmly against any attempt or action to deny, distort or tamper with WWII history."

The bitter lessons drawn from WWII, Xi said, teach that the Law of the Jungle, the strong preying on the weak, or warlike or hegemonic policies, or winner-take-all or zero-sum mindsets will not benefit coexistence, peace and development for all mankind.

"Peace not war, cooperation not confrontation, and win-win not zero-sum are what drive peace, progress and development of human society," Xi said.

Xi urged all nations to adopt win-win cooperation as a basic policy orientation in dealing with international affairs.

"We are strong if united but weak if isolated," Xi said, adding that the conditions today are more favorable than ever to achieve peace and development.


Calling for efforts to build a new type of international relations with win-win and cooperation at its core, Xi urged all nations to combine their interests with those of others and expand the convergence of common interests. Also, Xi said all nations should embrace new concepts and join hands to work on the growing number of global challenges.

"Decades ago, the Chinese and Russian nations shared weal and woe and forged an unbreakable war friendship with fresh blood," Xi said. "Today, the two peoples will jointly move forward, safeguarding peace and promoting development, and continue to contribute to enduring global peace and the common progress of mankind."

Something quite big seems to happen on the global stage and US/Israel is not happy about it at all. A change which source seems to be the politics of the russian government. And I have the feeling that Putin could play the biggest role in it, if not the essential role.

Some kind of change does seem to happen not only in countries like china towards russia, which is not all that suprising, but also in countries like Germany for example. Which is kind of suprising, especially for me, since I live in germany and have followed what enormous amount of Propaganda is spread here about Russia and Putin.

To give you idea how much Propaganda against Russia is here in germany, you can read this study:
-http://www.russia-direct.org/analysis/russia-now-monitoring-world%E2%80%99s-mass-media-bias

Germany is the number 1 in the Propaganda bandwagon against russia, followed by the US...

The german government also seems to soften its course and gravitate towards dialog with russia:

-http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/EN/Infoservice/Presse/Reden/2015/150507_Wolgograd.html?nn=388442
Speech by [German]Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier in Volgograd to commemorate the end of the Second World War 70 years ago

07.05.2015

Foreign Minister, my dear Sergey Lavrov,
Governor Bocharov,
Mayor Kosolapov,
In particular, esteemed veterans here with us today,
And the people of Volgograd!

This site was a place of war. Now it is a place of reconciliation. Russians and Germans will shortly meet here on this stage and play music together. Russian and German music. Their music is a resounding symbol of reconciliation!

Volgograd is the city of heroes! Who were these heroes? They were people! People who experienced unspeakable suffering. Mothers and fathers. Sons and daughters. Civilians and soldiers. This is how we remember them.

Here in Stalingrad, these people brought about the first decisive turnaround in the war. Here in Stalingrad, these people began Europe’s liberation from Nazi dictatorship.

In doing so, they made immeasurable sacrifices. As a German, I bow before these victims in sorrow. And I ask for forgiveness for the infinite suffering that Germans inflicted on others in the name of Germany, here in this city, all over Russia, in the parts of the then Soviet Union that are now Ukraine and Belarus, and all over Europe.

Throughout the world, people are commemorating the end of the war 70 years ago. Each people does so in its own way. It remembers its own victims, its own pain and its own deeds.

However, we are not alone in our remembrance! Germans and Russians can and should commemorate together. And here in Volgograd, we are in exactly the right place for joint remembrance.

The advance of Nazi Germany’s troops was brought to a halt here on the battlefields of Stalingrad. This was the turning point of the war, and this is also where its utmost horrors remain scorched into the earth for all time.

From this ground we stand on rises the warning that links each and every one of us commemorating the war, and which particularly links us Germans and Russians: Never again! Never again should people inflict such inhuman suffering on others!

Esteemed people of Volgograd,

Thank you for receiving us Germans here today. After all, your families had to bear the unimaginable suffering of the war. To this day, our families are pervaded by painful memories; your families, millions of families all over Russia, including the family of your President whose father lost five of his six brothers, as we read today in Germany. And millions of families in Germany, including my own family, are also pervaded by similarly painful memories.

This is precisely why I know that joint remembrance is an opportunity.

An opportunity for all of us: for Germans, Russians and all the peoples of Europe to say together “Never again!”
An opportunity for you, the citizens, to tell your governments “Now you are responsible for the people of our nations and you should ensure that peace prevails in Europe!”
An opportunity for us to practise understanding and to peacefully resolve any antagonisms and conflicts between us rather than stoking old prejudices among different peoples.
Not only do we Germans owe the victims of the war our respect and remembrance, we also owe it to them to learn lessons from their suffering. And so I say as a German that the people of Stalingrad are heroes not only because 70 years ago they forced a turnaround in the war with their blood. They are also heroes because to this day they remind us to work for peace! Let us heed their reminder together! And now let us listen together to the music of peace.

Merkel also visits Putin tomorrow:
-https://www.ruptly.tv/event/view/28281/putin-meets-merkel-following-v-day-celebrations

This article on german SOTT:

_http://de.sott.net/article/17540-Weiterer-Germanwings-Einschuchterungsversuch-in-Planung-Treffen-mit-Putin-ist-Merkel-und-Steinmeier-sehr-wichtig-BRD-gehorcht-US-Diktat-nicht-mehr-Das-Richtige-aus-den-falschen-Grunden

explains a bit more about this change in course that seems to happen here in germany for a couple of months now. The visit of Merkel and Steinmeier to Putin now, is just the tip of that iceberg. It is apparent for months now, that something is shifting here. The curious thing is, that I think it is not likely that Merkel and company are doing this because they care and/or have a conscience (their records speak against it) but because they, for some reason, feel compelled to gravitate towards that direction. I guess russias diplomacy/politics could also be the main source for this interesting development.

Very interesting times indeed.
 
I think the following article may shed some light and offer a useful perspective:

http://www.sott.net/article/296234-SOTT-Exclusive-Civilized-world-attends-Moscow-for-Victory-Day-media-highlights
 
Pashalis said:
they, for some reason, feel compelled to gravitate towards that direction

Indeed, they do not seem to grasp this shift you are describing. I often come to the idea that Russia has historically been like a responsible adult shepherding wayward children. The children are too young to understand the lesson, which is why they repeatedly fail to learn it. Being naive, mischievous and easily led astray by strangers, they must be treated as children (including letting them feel like they are 'sovereign' and came to their 'decisions' on their own). So if Merkel 'has a brainwave' and suggests some new EU-Eurasian trade deal to Putin, Putin goes 'that's a great idea!', overlooking the fact that members of the Russian elite have been trying to seed this idea inside Europeans' heads for the last 15 years.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
 
Xi said. "The two peoples of China and Russia will stand together with all peace-loving nations and people firmly against any attempt or action to deny, distort or tamper with WWII history."

Pashalis,
it makes my sick to read this. Some time ago Putin and the Pope used quite the same words.
The implicit message is: The two peoples of China and Russia will stand together with all peace-loving nations and people firmly against GERMANY. GERMANS, do not deny, distort or tamper with the status quo established after WWII.
Same with “SOTT exclusive: Civilized world attends Moscow for Victory Day”. Civilized world means with hammered and traumatized Germans, willing to submissively celebrate “guilt cult” till eternity.

I also hate it to read always “Nazi” when they mean “fascist” oder “psychopath” instead.

To understand German National Socialism, NSDAP and its precursor DAP is to understand Thule Society and the occultism behind.

August 19, 2014
...
Q: (L) Okay, change of subject: On a couple of occasions you mentioned a group called the Antareans. Who were these people or aliens?

A: Antareans were the name given by 4th density groups in contact with the Thule Society on third density Earth, before and during World War One.

Q: What are they called now?

A: There is no one currently labeling themselves as "Antareans," in contact with anyone now.

Q: So, they are no longer here?

A: No, not this particular group.
Hitler got access to a loge of the Thule Society because of his ability to speak in voices. It wasn't him who spoke when standing behind a speaker's desk. Something was speaking through him. Beside this Hitler was a rather uneducated idiot.
This is Hitlers voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=395LsIt-BTA
in a moment when he believed wrongly the the conversation was not recorded.
May 29, 2014
...
Q: (L) Among the things that were discussed among the Germans in the Thule Society and the Vril Society, was the "Black Sun That Illuminates the Interior." Can you tell us what this "Black Sun" is?

A: Ultimate destiny of STS orientation.

Q: (L) Is this Black Sun an actual astronomical phenomenon?

A: In essence.

Q: (L) What would we know this Black Sun as? A black hole?

A: Good possibility.

August 19, 2014

A: Now, some history... as you know, the CIA and NSA and other agencies are the children of Nazi Gestapo... the SS, which was experiment influenced by Antareans who were practicing for the eventual reintroduction of the Nephalim on to 3rd and or 4th density earth. And the contact with the “Antareans” was initiated by the Thule Society, which groomed its dupe subject, Adolph Hitler to be the all time mind programmed figurehead.
October 28, 2010

Q: (Perceval) Did the Nazis use gas chambers to kill Jews?
A: No.

Same with the AIIB. Nothing new, Chinese and Russians just transfer the old structures to there own soil. Meanwhile the Rothschilds carry there physical gold assets to Shanghai. What a scam.
At this point of history they only decided altogether to slaughter the US constitution.

The meaning of the banner colors black, red and gold is:
Through dark slavery
Through gory battles
(both referring to the Thirty Years' War)
Into the golden future.

In 1832, the time of the Hambacher Fest the golden strip was on top. After WWI someone decided to turn it upside down, so slavery (black) is now on top and the new PTB want to keep the status quo. Tricky, isn't it!

What do you think, Pashalis, why are they so afraid of Germany? Is it just because of German efficiency or is there more?

Extraordinary reading in German:
http://www.amazon.de/1939-Krieg-Anlauf-Zweiten-Weltkrieg/dp/3789281174/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431254203&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=der+krieg+der+viele+V%C3%A4ter+schulte+rohnhoff

Have a nice Sunday.
 
miharo said:
Xi said. "The two peoples of China and Russia will stand together with all peace-loving nations and people firmly against any attempt or action to deny, distort or tamper with WWII history."

Pashalis,
it makes my sick to read this. Some time ago Putin and the Pope used quite the same words.
The implicit message is: The two peoples of China and Russia will stand together with all peace-loving nations and people firmly against GERMANY. GERMANS, do not deny, distort or tamper with the status quo established after WWII.
Same with “SOTT exclusive: Civilized world attends Moscow for Victory Day”. Civilized world means with hammered and traumatized Germans, willing to submissively celebrate “guilt cult” till eternity.

I also hate it to read always “Nazi” when they mean “fascist” oder “psychopath” instead.

I think you missed the point completely, with displaying some over-sensitivity and identification with wrong things.

In no way I understood that the part against any attempt or action to deny, distort or tamper with WWII history stands for Germany/Germans, explicitly or implicitly.
Just a few pieces using a quick search on SOTT:
http://www.sott.net/article/296032-Restoration-of-Historical-Truth-Russia-Won-World-War-II
http://www.sott.net/article/294006-Putin-denounces-attempts-to-rewrite-WWII-history-as-plot-to-undermine-Russia
can give an idea what that statement is really about.

Also, "civilized world", for me, stands for those people who are still able to think reasonably for themselves, not being totally immersed into Empire's propaganda grip, and still capable of displaying at least some amount of normal human decency and integrity. Again, in no way I was lead to think in terms stated above: "Civilized world means with hammered and traumatized Germans, willing to submissively celebrate “guilt cult” till eternity."

At the end, Nazi really means Nazi, as leadership of Nazi Germany was psychopathic and people under their rule were ponerized to extreme extent.
Check out this piece from excellent Ponerology 101 series, for example:
http://www.sott.net/article/214764-Ponerology-101-Psychopathy-at-Nuremburg
 
miharo said:
Xi said. "The two peoples of China and Russia will stand together with all peace-loving nations and people firmly against any attempt or action to deny, distort or tamper with WWII history."

Pashalis,
it makes my sick to read this. Some time ago Putin and the Pope used quite the same words.
The implicit message is: The two peoples of China and Russia will stand together with all peace-loving nations and people firmly against GERMANY.

No, the USA.

miharo said:
GERMANS, do not deny, distort or tamper with the status quo established after WWII.

No, the implicit message is that Americans have already distorted the status quo beyond all recognition, "particularly in the last [most recent, ie post-9/11] decade", said Putin.

miharo said:
Same with “SOTT exclusive: Civilized world attends Moscow for Victory Day”. Civilized world means with hammered and traumatized Germans, willing to submissively celebrate “guilt cult” till eternity.

No, Americans. Germans are only 'guilt-tripped' to the extent that they remain agents of the 'Fourth Reich' (US Empire).

miharo said:
I also hate it to read always “Nazi” when they mean “fascist” oder “psychopath” instead.

Yes, it seems to be quite upsetting to you.

miharo said:
To understand German National Socialism, NSDAP and its precursor DAP is to understand Thule Society and the occultism behind.

August 19, 2014
...
Q: (L) Okay, change of subject: On a couple of occasions you mentioned a group called the Antareans. Who were these people or aliens?

A: Antareans were the name given by 4th density groups in contact with the Thule Society on third density Earth, before and during World War One.

Q: What are they called now?

A: There is no one currently labeling themselves as "Antareans," in contact with anyone now.

Q: So, they are no longer here?

A: No, not this particular group.
Hitler got access to a loge of the Thule Society because of his ability to speak in voices. It wasn't him who spoke when standing behind a speaker's desk. Something was speaking through him. Beside this Hitler was a rather uneducated idiot.
This is Hitlers voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=395LsIt-BTA
in a moment when he believed wrongly the the conversation was not recorded.
May 29, 2014
...
Q: (L) Among the things that were discussed among the Germans in the Thule Society and the Vril Society, was the "Black Sun That Illuminates the Interior." Can you tell us what this "Black Sun" is?

A: Ultimate destiny of STS orientation.

Q: (L) Is this Black Sun an actual astronomical phenomenon?

A: In essence.

Q: (L) What would we know this Black Sun as? A black hole?

A: Good possibility.

August 19, 2014

A: Now, some history... as you know, the CIA and NSA and other agencies are the children of Nazi Gestapo... the SS, which was experiment influenced by Antareans who were practicing for the eventual reintroduction of the Nephalim on to 3rd and or 4th density earth. And the contact with the “Antareans” was initiated by the Thule Society, which groomed its dupe subject, Adolph Hitler to be the all time mind programmed figurehead.
October 28, 2010

Q: (Perceval) Did the Nazis use gas chambers to kill Jews?
A: No.

I don't understand why you've chosen to place those particular session excerpts side-by-side. Whatever Hitler and the Nazis were 'channeling' was clearly STS. They may not have used gas chambers to kill the Jews, but they nonetheless methodically killed millions of people in concentration camps.

miharo said:
Same with the AIIB. Nothing new, Chinese and Russians just transfer the old structures to there own soil. Meanwhile the Rothschilds carry there physical gold assets to Shanghai. What a scam.

We should be careful to not project Western assumptions onto Eastern ways of doing things. China has been around, in some form or another, for 4,000 years, but has never sought world domination. Russia has been around for 1,000 years, but has never sought world domination.

miharo said:
At this point of history they only decided altogether to slaughter the US constitution.

The meaning of the banner colors black, red and gold is:
Through dark slavery
Through gory battles
(both referring to the Thirty Years' War)
Into the golden future.

In 1832, the time of the Hambacher Fest the golden strip was on top. After WWI someone decided to turn it upside down, so slavery (black) is now on top and the new PTB want to keep the status quo. Tricky, isn't it!

Who is 'they'?

miharo said:
What do you think, Pashalis, why are they so afraid of Germany? Is it just because of German efficiency or is there more?

Who is afraid of Germany?
 
Who is afraid of Germany?

Probably America. They're the lynchpin of their EU colony, and many other countries will slip through their fingers once Germany defects. This is probably why the propaganda offensive is so vitriolic there, as Pashalis pointed out. A friendly Germany and Russia would spell the end of the UK/US divide and conquer strategy. :referee:
 
Saša,
okay, that Putin today uses the mainstream interpretation of the beginning and the outcome of WWII as a meme to hold his country together might have some value, from the Russian point of view.
Sadly, they do not have other values to form a vivid society. The Russian society is a disaster because of alcoholism.

I do not support in any way how the western PTB uses WWII to turn everything against Russia, since the situation in Ukraine escalated. But already years ago Putin made sure with the same words that he will not support any academic revisionism of the 20th century history.
With “guilt cult” I was referring mostly to what Frank-Walter Steinmeier said.

What I only ask for is that Russia (and the Vatican) open there archives. Boris Yeltsin did it and Putin stopped it when he came to power.
I'm pretty sure the the final version of WWII, the historical truth, will be quite close to what Viktor Suvorov says
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov#Historical_works_about_World_War_II
And if not, I'll change my mind about the subject, no problem.
 
Who is 'they'?
Niall,
Those who shift world domination to BRICS, SCO, AIIB...
Can't name them. Finally it is only a handover from western psychopaths to eastern psychopaths.
Who is afraid of Germany?
So far the western PTB. For instance Hastings Ismay on the purpose of NATO: "To keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down."
 
miharo said:
Finally it is only a handover from western psychopaths to eastern psychopaths.

There is no historical precedent for this, so I wouldn't be so sure that this is what will happen. Rates of psychopathy - in all its various manifestations - are probably far, far lower in non-white countries. At any event, I think the world-as-we-know-it will collapse before any such shift in power is made to, or allowed to, happen. In fact, the Cs have suggested it will be deliberately collapsed by the PTB because they do not want to see power shift to the East.

Your assumption that high-functioning psychopaths control Chinese-Russian policy is not borne out by the facts: those countries conduct their international business humanely, in stark contrast to managers of the Western Empire. Another factor to consider is that it's not as simple as 'east-west': BRICS includes Brazil and South Africa. The only thing that can be observed with any certainty is that concentrations of high-functioning psychopathy have become established - over hundreds of years - in Europe, and then the US, which the Powers That Be use today for ruling the world.
 
miharo said:
Putin today uses the mainstream interpretation of the beginning and the outcome of WWII as a meme to hold his country together might have some value, from the Russian point of view. Sadly, they do not have other values to form a vivid society. The Russian society is a disaster because of alcoholism.

:shock:

You are probably primed against it, but I highly recommend that you spend some time studying Russian history. Far from being 'barbarians with no values and asiatic features' ( <-- that's the typical caricature, in the West, of Russians for the past few hundred years)... this is the 'country' (actually, it's more like a separate civilization) that gave us Tolstoy, Tchaikovsky, and pioneered space travel.

miharo said:
I do not support in any way how the western PTB uses WWII to turn everything against Russia, since the situation in Ukraine escalated. But already years ago Putin made sure with the same words that he will not support any academic revisionism of the 20th century history.

Yes, he doesn't tolerate the rehabilitation of Nazism. And neither do we.

Miharo said:
What I only ask for is that Russia (and the Vatican) open there archives. Boris Yeltsin did it and Putin stopped it when he came to power.

Yes, because politically-motivated interpretations of certain revelations were being used against Russia. I'd like to see you call for Britain to open its one-hundred-year-old archives about the First World War.

Miharo said:
I'm pretty sure the the final version of WWII, the historical truth, will be quite close to what Viktor Suvorov says https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov#Historical_works_about_World_War_II
And if not, I'll change my mind about the subject, no problem.

:shock:

Stalin deliberately baited Hitler to attack the USSR in order to liberate Europe then turn it Communist?? That is an insane interpretation of history.
 
Niall said:
miharo said:
I'm pretty sure the the final version of WWII, the historical truth, will be quite close to what Viktor Suvorov says https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Suvorov#Historical_works_about_World_War_II
And if not, I'll change my mind about the subject, no problem.

:shock:

Stalin deliberately baited Hitler to attack the USSR in order to liberate Europe then turn it Communist?? That is an insane interpretation of history.

In the June 1941 Soviet Union's army was backward in armament comparing it to Nazi's army, also Soviet soldiers was less experienced than German who had opportunity gain experience in combat in Poland, Balkans and in the air over England.

The Soviet Union was building its military strength during the conflict exponentially gaining experience and maximally exploiting its industrial potential under pressure and despair of decreasing the country.

At the beginning of the operation Barbarossa German soldiers were using, for example, modern (at that time) machine guns MG-34, while Russian soldiers possessed old Maxims, which was used at the I World War.

Also, regards to the tanks. Famous tanks T-34, which could made efficient resistance on the land, began to be produced on the massive scale scarcely after German strike. There were moments that demanded tanks at the front was so great that the tanks were released not even painted with green paint, what was making T-34's clean steel sheet shiny and seen from afar, which reflect intense summer light. It shows a desperation and very high demand of military power at the front.

At the time of the attack on Russia, German was stronger and had the ability to conquer Russia (nowise, the most important regions, key to the survival of Russia as a single state), if they did it before 1941 winter. But they failed and it was the moment when Hitler "lose war", it wasn't happen when he attacked Poland.

Generally in the 1941 it was not the two superpowers Nazi Germany and USSR like two titans staying face to face. Germany was stronger at that time, and if Russia would attacked German, USSR would't be able to penetrate the border and probably would be smashed into the dust if Germans made forceful counterattack.

Russia survive thanks to the perseverance and sacrifice of its people.

P.S. Another very important element where Germany exceeded the Russians, was the equipment and technology to the exchanging information on the battlefield, which is very important for warfare.
 
Just a note, Suvorov's claims have been thoroughly discredited/debunked, and very convincingly. You might want to do some research into that controversy (also look at his connections/probable motivations). And think of it this way, also, if USSR was ready to attack, and had all their forces prepared for an offensive, why would they not also have prepared to defend against a counter-offensive, defending their supply lines, rear, etc., etc.? I think there are obviously better explanations for the initial quick success of the German attack, based on well-established facts, than that kind of far-fetched speculation....
 

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