Initiative Would Require Married Couples to Have Children

[PopHistorian]

(http:/)/www.nwcn.com/statenews/washington/stories/NW_020507WABinitiative957SW.546c6a4d.html

Marriage would be limited to men and women who are able to have children

OLYMPIA, Wash. - An initiative filed by proponents of same-sex marriage would require heterosexual couples to have kids within three years or else have their marriage annulled.

Initiative 957 was filed by the Washington Defense of Marriage Alliance. That group was formed last summer after the state Supreme Court upheld Washington's ban on same-sex marriage.

Under the initiative, marriage would be limited to men and women who are able to have children. Couples would be required to prove they can have children in order to get a marriage license, and if they did not have children within three years, their marriage would be subject to annulment.

All other marriages would be defined as "unrecognized" and people in those marriages would be ineligible to receive any marriage benefits.

“For many years, social conservatives have claimed that marriage exists solely for the purpose of procreation ... The time has come for these conservatives to be dosed with their own medicine," said WA-DOMA organizer Gregory Gadow in a printed statement. “If same-sex couples should be barred from marriage because they can not have children together, it follows that all couples who cannot or will not have children together should equally be barred from marriage."

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[seek10]

It is really crazy, I dont know whether they can get 224, 000 signatures for this purpose or not . One more thing to worry, if it really gets to that point of approval. I dont think it will come to that point.
There are already some good comments on this on the internet. here is the one.
http://www.bloggernews.net/14413

 

[Nienna]

What is the matter with these people??? Do they have nothing better to do? Innocent men, women and children are dying all over the world either because of famine, pestilence and mostly wars. All caused one way or another by the pathocracy. And all these idiots care about is same sex marriages? I could care less if Godzilla wanted to marry the Easter Bunny! If they want to DO something, do something that really matters. Like get those psychopathic scum out of control of the world. Now THERE is something to get your pantyhose in a wad about!

Sorry. I just get so disgusted that after awhile I just have to say something. :/

 

[anart]

I could be mistaken, but it seems to me that the initiative may have been launched to prove a simple point that the whole 'who can and cannot get married' issue is ridiculous beyond definition.

I mean, they are basically taking the definition used against them and then using it against those who refuse to acknowledge that not all 'marriages' are made of a man and a woman. It's actually rather funny, in a way.

And, yes, there are seemingly an infinite number of more important issues to fight for at this point in 'time' - but, having no rights and no legal standing in the life of the one person that you love more than anything else is a pretty big pill to swallow - especially when that state of affairs is based on some twisted interpretation of what is and what is not love - or acceptable.

Also - these people are asleep, and, thus, dreaming - and in their dream it matters very much whether other people who look like them think that the love they experience is 'valid' or not - again - especially when 'valid' means you get tax breaks, or you can visit your loved one in intensive care, or you have visitation rights for the children from another 'marriage' that you helped raised, if the 'worst' happens, or even that you have a right to the house you've both lived in for fifteen years, if the 'worst' happens. Right now, same sex couples are afforded none of this.

So, yeah - in the 'big' scheme of things, it is nothing - but for those lost in dreams, they think that, at the very least, an adult lifetime of monogamy and building a home and family should at least result in a tax break or two - or maybe even in the ability to decide whether or not the wishes of the sick or deceased are followed - when they oppose the wishes of the family of origin. It's a jungle out there - and if you're homosexual, it's not even a pretty jungle.

Of course there are more important issues - probably an infinite amount - but I personally think this 'initiative' is pretty darn funny - the system defined what it was these people could not have and why - these people simply came back and said, 'ok - if that's all marriage means to you, then - hmmmm - let's hold you to it". Clearly, marriage means a lot more than the legalistic definition used to deprive same sex couples of the basic civil and financial benefits afforded to heterosexual couples - so, why not?

Of course, that's just my take on it - and I'm defending it from the point of view of those who are sleeping - I was sleeping once, and sometimes still do, so I understand. ;) (not that the initiative will ever pass - but I don't think that was the point to begin with...)

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Although valid point on their part, just cuz the argument for not having same-sex marriage doesn't even have a single valid point other than "the Bible says so", I still think it's all a big waste of time as Lynne says. While the anti gay marriage activists are loonies, at this point it's probably a waste of energy to even bother pointing that out. If the pathocracy is ever removed, marriage as a concept probably wouldn't even exist anymore, and it won't do away with love and turn everything into a chaotic sinful mess of just casual sex as the religious crowd thinks it would if you get rid of marriage entirely - marriage does not equal love, never has, never will. Those who want to love just one another and not cheat on one another will do so without needing any contractual obligation or proof-on-paper of their "love". Those who don't want to stick with one partner never cared about marriage to begin with.

This whole battle is about contracts and marriage BENEFITS - gay couples just want the benefit because no one is stopping them from living together, having sex, and loving each other or getting each other rings - all that's left is the official state-sponsored benefits, which is what they want. And frankly, I think the entire concept of marriage including all those benefits that only apply to married couples is inherently unfair and stupid. If you're a single mother with a child struggling from day to day, you should be the one getting marriage benefits, not some well-off couple that just decided that they are "in love" and suddenly that means they deserve tax breaks and stuff. Giving benefits based on that totally subjective and non-existing criteria makes no sense at all so the gay crowd is just as wrong as the straight crowd! What they all REALLY want but are so terrified to admit because we're in capitalist-obsessed region here is social services and tax breaks, and that's cool, if u need it. But if u want it just cuz u CAN get it because the law allows for it even if it makes no sense at all and u don't really need it? *slaps*

I'm sure we'd have less of that if the pathocracy is gone...

 

[anart]

What they all REALLY want but are so terrified to admit because we're in capitalist-obsessed region here is social services and tax breaks, and that's cool, if u need it.

Nope, that's not all it is. Yes, the 'unfair' benefits married people get are certainly part of the picture - but the issue is much more than just social services and tax breaks. Are you even aware that as the law is now, a same sex life partner has no legal rights whatsoever - they are not recognized legally as family. For the bulk of same sex couples, the family of origin does not recognize the relationship, so if one of them ends up in the hospital or ends up dead, the other is left with no rights to anything - not even visits to intensive care. I think you're over simplifying and not realizing all the little legal rights that people take for granted - property rights, pension rights, credit are part of it, but what about health insurance for the stay at home partner who raises the kids - yes, there are often kids involved, even though the non-genetic parent has no legal rights with them either. If something happens to the genetic partner, then it's over - the family of origin takes control as if the other parent never existed and this tends to be very damaging to the kids involved - at least in heterosexual marriages the other parent can call the shots - and then there is the whole visitation thing. In this society, like it or not, to not be legally recognized as family means you don't exist in a myriad of situations.

That is the real point for most gay people who want this whole legally recognized marriage thing - not just social services and tax breaks.

So, it's not just a 'give me what they have' situation by any means.

I completely agree that the whole situation is ridiculous and that the world is burning and people care more about what marriage is or isn't, but don't negate the very real pain and loss that is suffered because of this little 'legal loophole' -

 

[Nienna]

I think that I have been misunderstood, by the fact that I have not been, once again, clear enough in my wording.

I do not think that the same sex marriage issue is NOTHING and a waste of time. It's the people that are so concerned about two people of the same sex being married that I am disgusted with. Who are they to think they can tell someone who to love and who not to love. I know, parents the world over have been doing this with their children. But, these are adults here and should be able to be married to whomever they choose. (I do take exception to people/animal mixes, however.)

These people who are so vehemently against same sex marriages need to get a life and do something constructive with their energy, OSIT. That is what I meant by my above post. Let people choose their own loved ones and get married. Geesh! There are more important things going on that these people could invest their energy in. Help feed the poor. Or provide them with clothes, a place to live, etc. Help those suffering from diseases that can't pay the outrageous hospital bills. Get rid of the Bush regime. Oops, I forgot, most of the people against gay marriages are probably Bush supporters. Neocons.

Anyway, I see keeping gay couples from being able to be married as just one more nail in the coffin of our freedoms.

And, yes, SAO, I am becoming more and more to think that marriage is just a waste. Another way to show that you own someone. It's just a little inkling in my mind, but it is there.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Yes you're right, I forgot that there is more than just "tax breaks" there, marriage doesn't just give tax breaks but it makes certain things possible that otherwise just aren't even acknowledged or allowed, which makes life so much more difficult for those who don't fit the defined "profile". But those people who make these senseless rules of who is allowed and not allowed to marry are not interested in helping people or doing something that is "right". They don't do this out of empathy, otherwise they'd never do something like that. It's the same people who made rules based on race and skin color in the past. They had their "justifications" for those as well, which were just as empty and psychopathic and pointless. But I think those who are forbidden to be a family or share property or have any other "benefits" of marriage due to their sexual orientation should also understand that this is but one small part of the pathocracy and its ridiculous distortions of reality and enforcements on everyone else. I think those who are so disenfranchised in one area may be more capable of SEEing the global pathocracy at work in other areas as well, since they're now open to that possibility due to being on the receiving end of senseless injustice and "know what it's like".

The "immediate solution" to give them the same marriage rights as heterosexuals is probably a bad idea because then they can just happily go about their lives and no longer have a glaring injustice that shocks them and provides with an opportunity to wake up in a greater way, I think. I know it sounds bad, but I think the more such injustices and enforcements hurt people, the more possibility that those very same people, as a result of being hurt in one area, will begin to see how such things can be a global "norm" on many many levels and areas for many people around the world and will as a result of seeing this, wake up. It's more difficult to wake up when you're more or less content with the way the government treats you, it makes it more difficult to see or even WANT to see the possibility of others being totally mistreated and attacked, makes it more difficult to empathise with their situation if you yourself do not "know what its like", I think.

Please don't get me wrong, I just don't want to patch a gunshot wound with a band-aid, which is why I said I think it's a waste of time in that sense. At best the bandaid will only hide the wound and you will forget it exists and fail to treat it properly and let it "get worse" under that bandaid, osit.

 

[Cyre2067]

I think the whole thing is funny. You see how worked up people get about the bill itself and then when you point out the same-sex marriage issue it's like a lightbulb goes on.

I agree there are more important things, but for sleeping peeps it can be a big issue for the variety of reasons anart illustrated above.

 

[anart]

I think those who are so disenfranchised in one area may be more capable of SEEing the global pathocracy at work in other areas as well, since they're now open to that possibility due to being on the receiving end of senseless injustice and "know what it's like".

I wish this were true - but from my own experience it's not - they're just as sound asleep and ready to fight for that sleep as everyone else. Who knows, maybe it's just where I live, and things are different elsewhere - hope so.

 

[seek10]

It is getting lot of publicity. yesterday it is in top page of the cnn.com . Very good divertion , at the same time pushing every body into fear and worry.