Interpreting the fear response

[Trobar]

The subject for this topic has been borrowed from Gavin de Becker's book. If this topic is better suited to another area, I thank the moderators in advance for moving it. I considered posting this under "psychic attack" within the Psi category. However, after a bit of reading, I decided that this post did not relate to the conversation present.

My experiences have been teaching me to view the emotion of fear as significant data which should not be dismissed or ignored. The lessons in learning to re-interpret the fear response has thus far served me well, in that this response is not as limiting as it once was.

Two days ago, I drove to another county to drop off one of my sons (age 31), who had been staying with me for 10 days. Upon returning home, I unlocked the door to my apartment, stepped inside and found myself instantaneously engulfed in an experience I can only describe as "overwhelming fear". I will compare it to being indoors and oblivious to the fact that it is actually raining/storming outdoors. Followed by the opening of a door and stepping outside and suddenly finding oneself in pouring rain, thunder and lightning. The apartment was dark when I stepped inside and this is common as I do not leave any lights on and do not fear darkness. My initial response, now in retrospect was quite telling, as I frantically proceeded to move pieces of furniture against the 2 apartment doors - and remember thinking that this might protect me from "the intruders". Fortunately, I was able to awaken to the fact that my thoughts, my emotions and behavior were absolutely preposterous and I stopped.

My ability to think clearly kicked in and I began to question the entire experience from a logical mind frame, although my pulse and tingling sensations indicated I was hormonally in "fight or flight" mode. As the fear began to subside, I was then engulfed in an equally overwhelming feeling of what I can only describe as indescribable and profound loneliness.

Living alone for 5 years has provided the opportunity to learn to adjust to the short lived and for the most part, fleeting emotions of feeling lonely. As an "empty nester" I have grown to appreciate the solitude at home and generally feel quite comfortable alone. Once again, I began to examine these emotions and was able to overcome and shake off this profoundly dark experience. Now, in retrospect, I can almost laugh at it all. However, at the time, it was very real and very difficult to deal with.

The reason I have chosen to share this with the forum is due to the fact that I am fairly certain that - I - was not necessarily the source of the dark thoughts. Once I regained control over my thoughts and began to examine "the thoughts" I quickly realized that perhaps I was being subjected to some form of psychic manipulation or psychic attack. I could "see" clearly that my perception was that the thoughts were "foreign" and I thought about the value and the power of a broad perspective and how my awareness of it was all the protection I required.

I have since thought about the seeming coincidental timing of this experience with the my son's visit. I have thought about my son's emotional and psychological state and the possibility that he was/is vulnerable to psychic attack.

I also considered the fact that this son has been experiencing several years of repeated professional and personal difficulties in his life and that the evening before his departure from my home, he said he spent the evening pacing the apartment and struggling with what he described as uncommon feelings of fear.

Although this awareness can serve and protect me, it does not in any way serve or protect this member of my family.

I am asking for input from the forum regarding my son and whether or not I should even share the account of my experience and my perception with him for he is quite determined that the reason for his troubles is the lack of a university degree and excessive time invested in the pursuit of esoteric interests.

"Coincidentally", my youngest son (age 19) has only recently begun to awaken from the matrix and has been studying the material on this site. He told me a few months ago that he accidentally stumbled on this site while searching the internet. He shared with me his account of an experience this week where he was sitting on the sandy beach looking out at the ocean and the sky. He noticed a dark cloud in the sky which seemed to grow darker and began to move in towards land and he became aware of what he described as irrational thoughts and feelings of dread and fear. He also described to me what he said was seeing some kind of geometrical pattern within the dark cloud. He said that although the unexpected thoughts and feelings did not in any way "fit" with his previous mood and enjoyment of the beach, he felt so much fear that he felt he had to "get away" from the dark cloud and so he got up and began to flee. He then stopped himself in the middle of his attempt to escape and thought that he had to confront the source of this fear. He stated that he "forced" himself to return to the beach and he sat down on a picnic table and went into meditation by using the thoughts "knowledge protects" as his meditative focus.

So many strange coincidences within a period of 3 days and so challenging to retain an objective perspective about it all. As a parent, I tend to feel "responsible" in some way and occasionally experience feelings of guilt for my work and the effect it may have upon those dearest and closest to me. I also experience feelings of wanting very much to somehow protect them and/or at least warn them - although they are all adults. I cannot forget that we are receptive to learning only when we are ready.

 

[anart]

Re: The gift of fear

Hi trobar,

Gift of Fear is a great book and highly recommended. Fear is a strong signal that can protect us if utilized correctly, but there is a fine line to walk there, with perception versus reality.

With that said, in this case, it seems as if it will be quite beneficial if you deeply examine the reasons you have for sharing such a hypothesis with your son. In other words, would it be to help him or to help yourself? 'Psychic attacks' - while extant, according to all available evidence, may not be the core of the problem here. Everything from diet to the rapidly deteriorating state of the world could be responsible for the bouts of intense fear, and usually the more simple explanation is the correct one.

Also, it's important to remember that as one 'cleans ones machine' - removes programs and 'foreign installations' - one becomes less prone to external interference. An analogy would be that for one to be 'messed with' in such a way, one must have an 'antenna raised to pick up that signal'. Fusing a singular 'I' removes that antenna, as it were - which comes back to self-knowledge and the Work. Hopefully that makes sense.

In other words, looking for an external cause (external 'psychic attack') might be looking in the wrong direction.

My rather lengthy point is that, ultimately, your children's lives are their own and as difficult as it is to accept, it is not your place to save them. One cannot be brought to this learning - and it may be vitally important to your son's own lessons that he go through what he is going through now.

I do not know what benefit telling your son that you think you are under psychic attack and that he might be as well would provide - especially without a base of knowledge from which he can work with that information. fwiw.

 

[Joe]

Re: The gift of fear

I do not know what benefit telling your son that you think you are under psychic attack and that he might be as well would provide - especially without a base of knowledge from which he can work with that information. fwiw.

Hi Trobar, I agree with Anart on this point. You don't know that you are under psychic attack, it could very well be something much more mundane as Anart described. In that case, it may actually make it more difficult for your son to identify and deal with the source of the problem. Anxiety attacks and several other psychological issues are blamed on things like Candida overgrowth. So maybe you should look at the more "normal" possible causes for both your sons experiences and also your own?

As for your feeling that your paranoid thoughts were "not your own"; this feeling does not have to mean that the source is outside of you, but that you are simply getting an inkling of a possible truth to the esoteric idea that everyone has "two of us" inside. One being our programmed, reactive, disassociated false personality, and the other being a more permanent yet repressed and hidden real self.

If you are interested, there is a detailed thread on Candida on the forum. Just search on the upper right for "candida"

 

[Trobar]

Re: The gift of fear

Hi trobar,

Gift of Fear is a great book and highly recommended. Fear is a strong signal that can protect us if utilized correctly, but there is a fine line to walk there, with perception versus reality.

With that said, in this case, it seems as if it will be quite beneficial if you deeply examine the reasons you have for sharing such a hypothesis with your son. In other words, would it be to help him or to help yourself? 'Psychic attacks' - while extant, according to all available evidence, may not be the core of the problem here. Everything from diet to the rapidly deteriorating state of the world could be responsible for the bouts of intense fear, and usually the more simple explanation is the correct one.

Also, it's important to remember that as one 'cleans ones machine' - removes programs and 'foreign installations' - one becomes less prone to external interference. An analogy would be that for one to be 'messed with' in such a way, one must have an 'antenna raised to pick up that signal'. Fusing a singular 'I' removes that antenna, as it were - which comes back to self-knowledge and the Work. Hopefully that makes sense.

In other words, looking for an external cause (external 'psychic attack') might be looking in the wrong direction.

My rather lengthy point is that, ultimately, your children's lives are their own and as difficult as it is to accept, it is not your place to save them. One cannot be brought to this learning - and it may be vitally important to your son's own lessons that he go through what he is going through now.

I do not know what benefit telling your son that you think you are under psychic attack and that he might be as well would provide - especially without a base of knowledge from which he can work with that information. fwiw.

Thank you for your input. The words that most resonated were related to the "antenna" and I will pursue this area in my work as I suspect this may in fact represent the "why" behind the what.

Thanks again.

 

[Trobar]

Re: The gift of fear

I do not know what benefit telling your son that you think you are under psychic attack and that he might be as well would provide - especially without a base of knowledge from which he can work with that information. fwiw.

Hi Trobar, I agree with Anart on this point. You don't know that you are under psychic attack, it could very well be something much more mundane as Anart described. In that case, it may actually make it more difficult for your son to identify and deal with the source of the problem. Anxiety attacks and several other psychological issues are blamed on things like Candida overgrowth. So maybe you should look at the more "normal" possible causes for both your sons experiences and also your own?

As for your feeling that your paranoid thoughts were "not your own"; this feeling does not have to mean that the source is outside of you, but that you are simply getting an inkling of a possible truth to the esoteric idea that everyone has "two of us" inside. One being our programmed, reactive, disassociated false personality, and the other being a more permanent yet repressed and hidden real self.

If you are interested, there is a detailed thread on Candida on the forum. Just search on the upper right for "candida"

Thank you very much for your input. The possibility of a "disassociated false personality" I have already explored in depth with a highly qualified professional. I will, however do further research on Candida overgrowth and anxiety attacks and I appreciate your insights.

 

[Hildegarda]

Re: The gift of fear

I have since thought about the seeming coincidental timing of this experience with the my son's visit. I have thought about my son's emotional and psychological state and the possibility that he was/is vulnerable to psychic attack.

I also considered the fact that this son has been experiencing several years of repeated professional and personal difficulties in his life and that the evening before his departure from my home, he said he spent the evening pacing the apartment and struggling with what he described as uncommon feelings of fear.

I too have read that book and consider it excellent.

But, isn't it one of De Becker's points that the premonitions or sudden feelings that we have are often nothing "supernatural", as a psychic attack would be -- rather, it is our sensory and other processing of the environmental cues working ahead of our intellectual thinking processes?

In other words, you may have been picking up on your your son's worries, own feelings of worrying about your son, both of which were repressed until you came back home that night.

I very much understand and can relate to your concerns about your son being vulnerable to psychic attacks during this sensitive time in his life. But, I can tell you for sure: the times when I was hit with attacks from people or circumstances, all of those times it was because I was dissociated, missed some very material environmental cues and lost my guard, therefore rendering myself vulnerable. In hindsight, there was nothing "psychic" about it.

You have shared little about your relationship with your son and family history, so it's hard to even attempt to recommend the best course of action. I think though, from what you said, that of course you should communicate with your son, as any parent would. Just talk more to him, with a final goal of "watching each other's back", in a mundane and practical sense. If he is seriously thinking about the topics discussed on this site and forum, you might want to recommend books about dissociation, psychopathy etc -- those are guaranteed to be beneficial for him no matter where he eventually will head in his life lessons.

 

[Laura]

Re: The gift of fear

Fear attacks, panic attacks, etc, triggered by environmental cues are rather common. One just has to explore the environment and the inner landscape to discover the trigger.

Also, with the world in the state it is in, generalized systemic anxiety can easily cascade into a focused incident.

With cell phone towers and HAARP out there doing their thing, one might also speculate that susceptible individuals could pick up on such frequencies and have a reaction without having a directly personal environmental trigger.

And, there is also the possibility of a psychic premonition.

Lots of possible explanations for such an event.

 

[Trobar]

Re: The gift of fear

Hello Hildegarda,

Thank you for your post and your suggestions. You are correct about De Becker and his views. Actually, this is why I chose the book title as the subject.

My intention was to avoid a long post. In my attempt to be concise, I failed to communicate the whole picture of what I intended to convey. In retrospect, I can see that I was focused on what I understood to be 3 experiences of 3 family members in a 48 hour period and perhaps unnecessarily concerned with the possible significance.

I agree that one probability may be that I did indeed 'pick up on' my sons worries and fears and/or the emotions were actually my own worries and fears that I had repressed or postponed.

It has proved quite helpful for me to share my thoughts and feelings with others outside of my biological family and especially helpful to receive the differing yet somewhat similar points of view. I am very appreciative of all who have offered their input. I did discuss all of this with both sons yesterday when we were all together and we all agreed that we did not have any absolute answers and that there were many possible explanations.

I have since thought about the seeming coincidental timing of this experience with the my son's visit. I have thought about my son's emotional and psychological state and the possibility that he was/is vulnerable to psychic attack.

I also considered the fact that this son has been experiencing several years of repeated professional and personal difficulties in his life and that the evening before his departure from my home, he said he spent the evening pacing the apartment and struggling with what he described as uncommon feelings of fear.

I too have read that book and consider it excellent.

But, isn't it one of De Becker's points that the premonitions or sudden feelings that we have are often nothing "supernatural", as a psychic attack would be -- rather, it is our sensory and other processing of the environmental cues working ahead of our intellectual thinking processes?

In other words, you may have been picking up on your your son's worries, own feelings of worrying about your son, both of which were repressed until you came back home that night.

I very much understand and can relate to your concerns about your son being vulnerable to psychic attacks during this sensitive time in his life. But, I can tell you for sure: the times when I was hit with attacks from people or circumstances, all of those times it was because I was dissociated, missed some very material environmental cues and lost my guard, therefore rendering myself vulnerable. In hindsight, there was nothing "psychic" about it.

You have shared little about your relationship with your son and family history, so it's hard to even attempt to recommend the best course of action. I think though, from what you said, that of course you should communicate with your son, as any parent would. Just talk more to him, with a final goal of "watching each other's back", in a mundane and practical sense. If he is seriously thinking about the topics discussed on this site and forum, you might want to recommend books about dissociation, psychopathy etc -- those are guaranteed to be beneficial for him no matter where he eventually will head in his life lessons.

 

[Trobar]

Re: The gift of fear

Hello Laura,

Thank you for your post. Your first sentence regarding "explore the environment and the inner landscape to discover the trigger" accurately describes what I am attempting.

All posts, in one manner or another have been helpful and I am very appreciative.

Fear attacks, panic attacks, etc, triggered by environmental cues are rather common. One just has to explore the environment and the inner landscape to discover the trigger.

Also, with the world in the state it is in, generalized systemic anxiety can easily cascade into a focused incident.

With cell phone towers and HAARP out there doing their thing, one might also speculate that susceptible individuals could pick up on such frequencies and have a reaction without having a directly personal environmental trigger.

And, there is also the possibility of a psychic premonition.

Lots of possible explanations for such an event.

 

[Hildegarda]

Re: The gift of fear

It has proved quite helpful for me to share my thoughts and feelings with others outside of my biological family and especially helpful to receive the differing yet somewhat similar points of view. I am very appreciative of all who have offered their input. I did discuss all of this with both sons yesterday when we were all together and we all agreed that we did not have any absolute answers and that there were many possible explanations.

I am so glad you are talking to your children in an informative, yet open way.

Watching each other's backs is only possible when you trust each other and are willing to examine your feelings and assumptions.

hopefully, the prospectives of people outside your biological family will aid in that.

 

[truth seeker]

Re: The gift of fear

I just saw a program regarding Gavin de Becker yesterday. It seems he now has an online threat assessment program called Mosaic.

 

[Eongar]

Re: The gift of fear

Fear attacks, panic attacks, etc, triggered by environmental cues are rather common. One just has to explore the environment and the inner landscape to discover the trigger.

Also, with the world in the state it is in, generalized systemic anxiety can easily cascade into a focused incident.

With cell phone towers and HAARP out there doing their thing, one might also speculate that susceptible individuals could pick up on such frequencies and have a reaction without having a directly personal environmental trigger.

And, there is also the possibility of a psychic premonition.

Lots of possible explanations for such an event.

The question that arises for me is: even though we "Radiofrecuenciated" (sorry for bad expression) constantly for all sorts of waves and that they affect us greatly in our brain processes, physical, etc. How can we evolve and grow properly if we
manipulated to the point where we feel things are not there? How little we are real! Only perceptions and sensations of the brain. Sometimes I think that Kant had reason: we can never see the reality because we have no capacities. The Work says that one can, but sometimes, if already it is only difficult, imagine being further manipulated.
There is no way around this?

 

[Ca.]

Re: The gift of fear

Hi trobar, As you may understand as well as your son, fear is and will always be a four letter word. But the meaning does not just apply to just the events that you both found yourselves in. Aim sure that you are both aware that it can manifest in many different configurations in ones life. Some situation's are easily dealt with while at other time's it can be situations that are much more taxing, complex, and difficult to move through. I thought perhaps to give you an idea of those thoughts that i have expressed that i would relate to a situation i found myself and how i over came the feelings of fear and a predicament that it brought with it as well.

The story is at a time when i was into motorcycle riding and would ride with a long time and trusted friend. When he was not busy raising his family and being a family man, we would take the time and we would both take to the road and unwind on the open highway's and by ways riding together. He was into group or club as well, and ride with other with his club members, that he belong to. So his involvement with motorcycle's and his affiliation to his club was a lot deeper than my commitment to the sport. As i was mostly a solo rider. It was a good way to bond with him and we would spend some time together, when he was able. As it became a way for him to unwind and get away from the grind of life.

The club that he was affiliated with was not an outlaw biker group. Just long haul motorcycle rider's, bent on riding and racking up miles, visiting different states to rack up some riding time. So there was an event he was going to attend and i decided to join him and the group he was affiliated with, to spend time with my friend as well as the easy going group, which the club was about.

Now the function that we attended was being held by a notorious outlaw biker gang for a charity. I guess it was good P.R. (i will refrain from mentioning any club names but use your imagination) Most clubs try and support each other to raise monies and kind and try and let the history fade a littel around the event. Now county sheriff were in presence on the out skirts of the event to monitor bikes being compliance and make sure nothing other than what has been advertised takes place. It was set up with vendors, for food, merchandise, and as well music and bar serving alcohol.

Now my radar is up to pay strict attention to my demeanor as well as my surroundings. There is a lot of posturing that can accompany these types of events as well awfully big and over blown egos. And there would be some that hold on to ideas of having a supremacy mentality. This leaves one to be on guard as well as to moitor those elements in the crowd for possible issues. Fear, in the sense of staying aware to be aware when it was time to pack up, if the atmosphere were to change in any way, that i is sensed that the venue is changing. And was becoming a thereat. At which the group and i came with would leave and go ride.

Now let me take a moment and address the fear factor with this hobby. No matter how good you are on a bike, there are many issues to contend with in being on the open road on theses vehicle's. There was always the fear of being hit while on them. There was always the fear of being in an accident or becoming part of some else's problem. By being at the wrong place at the wrong time. There is the fear of to much speed or not enough throttle at the right time, to maneuver from a dangerous situation, at a monument's notice. There was always the fear of being tailgated from drivers in cars, that held no regard of the stopping distances needed to avoid rearend collisions. There was the always the awareness and fear of being cut off or sideswiped. The list continues and fear is very so present. Now this is a different type of fear, and maybe it might be called a hyper state of awareness. But fear helps keep everything in line of the limitation of the enviorment and the bike. Being that it would be the last bike i would own and was at the time the fastest motorcycle production bike in the world and could go 0-60 in 2.3 seconds. This could work for me and against me.

Now going back to the event i was attending. As the group arrived we would park in the designated areas together. Once we had done that we all kind separated. As many in the group (around 8 people in the group) had other people they wanted to touch base with at the event. Compares notes and talk shop. I kind went on my own, as it was spread out over a couple of acres (about the size or a soccer field for the europen form members) of land.

As i meandered about i deside to walk into the bar and i get my one beer that came with slice of pizza with the purchase to the admission to the event. As i walk into the bar, there's a crowd in the baroom, with with your typical rough and rowdy bunch, of all kinds of mental configurations. I compare it to the bar room scene in the first Star Wars movie, less the band. So you get an idea of the envoirment. Aim not fearfull but aim kind of walking lightly. I take seat, off to the side and taking it all in after getting the beer. Soon, though, i leave, to check out the rest of the exhibits in the park.

After a while i decide to get the slice of pizza that came with the beer and meander over to a table were a local pizza chain has set up shop to deliver the goods. As i walk up to the service area, there is young lady there whom takes the order. She is pleasent and as she takes the order i explain what a calm event it is, and she smiles. I then retreat to the opposite side of where this vendor is setup and bide my time, waiting for the food.

Now off to my right i notice 3 what i would call, long hair, wannabe outlaw bikers. Kind of thin, and questionable of there state of mind, talking to the manager of the piazza operation that i have just placed my order. There checking me out. I assume they have placed there order and it would be for whole pie as mine was slice. Now i at this point aim being vigilante of there persona's and demeanor as there seems to be potential for trouble. I just can't figure how it may manifest. At about this time my good firend, a man of color arrives and sits with me till the order is ready.

We talk little and he also becomes aware of these potential portals for conflict and sizes them up and we exchanges notes of the hate attitude that we see in them. Now this where the fear factor kicks in. Not scared but hyper awareness to this element's presences and there potential for conflict.

At this time the young lady motions to me that my order is ready to be picked and we both walk over to get it. At that same time the 3 roughins do so as well. We both move towards were the lady has my order wrapped and waiting for me to pick up. Well as fate would have it here comes the illusion of a peaceful setting about to degenerate. As we continue to move toward the counter they pick there speed to beat me to the front of the order desk and assume position in front of her, as i arrive.

Now there premise, in there mind is what is referred to as a right of passage. There going to get theres first, like the back of the bus mentality. As i get there, the lady just has the one slice, as there whole pie is still cooking. So here we go, aim behind them and there not about head the way to me and disrespect me by maintaining postion. Now imagine whats going through my mind. This has so many posssible out comes, with fear being pivotal in the progress to something so meaning less for a slice of pizza. The girl is shaking and frightened. My friend has seen this mentality before and dealt with it. The three thugs are posturing waiting me to run away, or fight. There are many thoughts flashing in my mind, as well as the ego trumping up as if to say "your going let them get a way with this". But i take into account the fear that the women (and innocent by stander) is feeling as well as to my friend to the potential violence. Things will escalate fast and quickly and move toward the predator's mind set, moving through them as portals. It has all the poetical to become ugly, very quickly. There's no doubt that there carrying knifes as it comes with the look they have presented with in themselves.

So aim fearfull, that i make no sudden moves to accommodate the ego of there mental illness. And i reach through them with one hand extended pass them to the lady to hand me the slice. She is very scared and trembling. I just don't allow the fear to take over and just play cool and eat a little crow rather then start a riot. Something i also felt was this event being manipulated by 4Dsts for the possible feeding that was going take place if i did not keep a sound mind at this time. I could sense my firends presence that he is ready to rumble, and took into account that he has a family, to feed as well and wanted nothing to transcend in this mess that has found me in this postion, that he could get hurt as well as the lady and i. That i will just have know response to the fear and get what i have come for and go back where i came from, across the way. And that is what i would do and we do together. As we walk a away the manager walks over and he's is amused by it all and begins to talk to the scourge i have just left. And the four them talk as if the have won a victory. The girl relaxes but is embarrassed, by it all and shows her discomfit looking away wishing she was probably some where else by the look she had.

As they get there order they retreat to a table about 50 feet away and start to bantering. My firend and i take a sit and just stare at them as there not sure if we are going to retaliate. As we sit, the ego is calling me a coward and feeling of self dejection occurs. But we both maintain our poise and stay calm to what has transpired. I even sense for monument watching them that they, the thugs feel like fools for what they have done and we continue to stare at them as if to let them know the jury is still out and this can change very quickly if i called the group that we had come with. I feared that idea and what it would lead to. Before we leave i notice some construction materail near by and different sizes of re-bar that used in concrete and take notice to use as weapon if they moment comes. But its time to leave and we just let them have there feeling of supremacy and go about our day. We soon after, leave the event for the open highway to shake off the situation.

So as you both can see your doing the right thing as other form members have mentioned that sometimes knowing when to hold them and knowing when to fold them has rewards. Some time's fear can be mentally challenging or it can be life vs death. We choose Light as to darkness that time and have never looked back, I hope the best for you both as father and son in your struggle to dealing and comprehending that you and only you both hold the cards of life, and that can make the difference in your growth for high state being. For a state of awareness to comprehend the choices of what fear can bring in your struggle for light as to darkness.

Massive Attack - Angel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygw2zmEVsvc&feature=related