Jordan Peterson's Biblical Series

anartist

anartist

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
There are 6 remaining lectures in the Biblical Series lectures by Jordan Peterson.(well the next one is the 4th of July, so 5 left really)
I attended the first one, but find the youtube videos easier to listen to because I can stop, and replay to think about what's being said, whereas during the lecture my concentration has to be quite high but despite that my own thoughts keep intruding after a while.

But, it occurred to me that perhaps some people here would have a question for Jordan connected to this series?

If interested people could come together and figure out what some good questions, or a single great question! ;-) would be, then I can buy a ticket to attend a lecture, and ask the question, or questions.
Perhaps it would be best if the question would be somewhat related to the topic of the time?
so far he has covered 1 through 5, this 4th of July will be Moses, and the next one will be Moses also. after that who knows?
(He had posted a structure at the beginning of the series, but because he gets into it so deeply, he found he couldn't stick with the schedule.)

1Introduction to the Idea of God
2Genesis: Adam & Eve
3Genesis: Cain & Abel/The Flood & The Tower
4Genesis: Part 4: Abraham
5Genesis: Part 5: Abraham
6Exodus: The Birth of Moses (4/7/17)
7Exodus: Moses, continued (11/7/17)
8TBA (18/7/17)
9TBA (25/7/17)
10TBA (1/8/17)
11TBA (8/8/17)
12TBA (15/8/17)












 
I've been keeping up with it via YouTube - I've seen every lecture posted there so far. I'm a little envious you got to attend one. :P

I think it's an excellent lecture series overall. He ties in all of his major ideas from his other talks when discussing the Bible, yielding a take on the stories that's certainly quite unique compared to anything I've ever heard before (aside from Laura's work, of course). Right now I can't think of any good questions, but if I do I will post them here. I imagine Laura may have a few good ones, though, so I hope she watches the videos that are currently out and chimes in. I'm curious about what she thinks of his interpretations.

Thanks for starting this thread - I think this is an amazing idea! :thup:
 
I can't believe how packed with genius this series is.

I find myself having to hit pause every few minutes so I can leap up and steam around the room while these explosive ideas settle.

It seems almost that I've been for the past couple of weeks in psychic contact with my current self. That's one way to explain it; -I've been thinking heavily and writing about some of the very ideas Peterson makes clear in this lecture. And here I thought I was being all original. Ha! More like Peterson is making such a big splash in my brain tonight that the ripples are flowing back in time to make themselves apparent in early September!

Or something like that.

In any case, everybody on this forum should check this stuff out. Start here:


https://youtu.be/f-wWBGo6a2w

Laura, I would especially love to hear your reaction; I don't know if you've had a chance to look at this, but based on all your bible and secret history work, this for me is like the Yang to your Yin, (or vice versa). You were writing about archetypal substrates long ago, but I never quite was able to wrap my brain around what you saw. Pow. Lights are flashing on now, filling in the gaps. Maybe I'm just finally ready to see.
 
I listened to most of these series in mp3 format. I think that the psychological aspect was amazing and highly inspiring at some points. He comes across to me as "Jung for dummies", filling a void with an archetypal energy that people are seeking but find lacking in the current system.

Nevertheless, I didn't like the context of the Biblical stories that he used as an analogy to catapult the various psychological theories. It doesn't necessarily counteract the power of the message, but I wished he had used general mythological stories.

For instance, he used the idea of circumcision and other blood-thirsty sacrifices to highlight the idea and importance of sacrifice as "conscious suffering". It was an analogy, not necessarily meant to be taken literally. Still, interpreting psychological aspects without the appropriate historical knowledge and context is not necessarily conducive to the truth.

I think that before listening to these series, it is extremely important to have read at least "Who Wrote the Bible" that Laura wrote in the first volume of Secret History. Ideally, the whole Secret History series published so far. Knowledge protects!

My 2 cents!
 
Gaby said:
Nevertheless, I didn't like the context of the Biblical stories that he used as an analogy to catapult the various psychological theories. It doesn't necessarily counteract the power of the message, but I wished he had used general mythological stories.

For instance, he used the idea of circumcision and other blood-thirsty sacrifices to highlight the idea and importance of sacrifice as "conscious suffering". It was an analogy, not necessarily meant to be taken literally. Still, interpreting psychological aspects without the appropriate historical knowledge and context is not necessarily conducive to the truth.

I think that before listening to these series, it is extremely important to have read at least "Who Wrote the Bible" that Laura wrote in the first volume of Secret History. Ideally, the whole Secret History series published so far. Knowledge protects!

My 2 cents!
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And there is much more about the whole circumcision issue. I am pretty convinced by certain clues I've collected that it was initially the effort on the part of mothers to "blemish" their male children so that the fathers could not sacrifice them. Pretty gruesome stuff.

Nevertheless, what Peterson is doing is allegorizing which is a time-honored way of interpreting the Bible. Only problem is, one man's metaphor is another man's literal interpretation! And thus, endless bloodshed. I think it is far more useful to completely expose the Bible as what it is rather than try to make it useful with new interpretations.
 
Peterson could probably use a copy of "Secret History"!

I bet the spark plugs would start firing big time if he knocks his knowledge up a level.
 
Laura said:
Nevertheless, what Peterson is doing is allegorizing which is a time-honored way of interpreting the Bible. Only problem is, one man's metaphor is another man's literal interpretation! And thus, endless bloodshed. I think it is far more useful to completely expose the Bible as what it is rather than try to make it useful with new interpretations.
Click to expand...

Yes, having watched a couple of his lectures from the biblical series, I really miss an effort to get to the truth of the matter. It seems JP just doesn't want to go there, and in a way, it's understandable, you got to choose your battles, especially if you are in such an exposed position I guess. Nonetheless, JP really figured out a lot about the human condition and his message is extremely useful IMO. But in a sense, Sam Harris kind of is onto something with his critique that you could take a cooking recipe and interpret all kinds of things into it. This is kind of what Peterson does at times - such as when he uses Abraham's sacrifice of his son as a trigger to talk about the necessity of sacrifice, which probably says more about Peterson's understanding and experience than it says about the bible or Christian tradition. OSIT
 
I concur with the observations about it.

I think when listening to what he has to say about the bible one should take it with a grain of salt. The jungian aspect of it and basic human behavior I believe is very well articulated and the examples he picks from the bible are actually very fitting. Plus he has a tremendous way to explain himself which makes it rather enjoyable.

I particularly enjoy that he keeps coming back to Carl Jung, which to me it implies that he's not looking to do a historical revision of it but rather pick stories apart, I mean he did it with the Lion King and Pinocchio and Harry Potter and I feel that's useful for people as it reminds them the importance of story telling and shows them how these stories communicate individual and social concepts.

But it is not by any means about christianity. I concur with Gaby here that having read the work of Laura regarding the Bible and the Mesopotamian gods in CATHOM does allow me to actually enjoy what he presents that is of value and not get confused about all the other aspects.

If anything, what he says about all these stories adds another dimension to something I already had some perspective on.

I feel he picked the Bible perhaps because, that's what he was most familiar with.
 
The stories in Genesis and the first books have mythological/psychological/archetypal themes which is why they were, or variations of, quite widespread for a long time. Most stories in the bible are reworked Near-Eastern and Greek mythologies. However, it would be interesting (and fun?) to watch how Peterson deals (if he does go there indeed) with the less known stories in the other books like the Judges and so forth, where the reccuring theme is that of genocide and ethnocide.
 
luc said:
Laura said:
Nevertheless, what Peterson is doing is allegorizing which is a time-honored way of interpreting the Bible. Only problem is, one man's metaphor is another man's literal interpretation! And thus, endless bloodshed. I think it is far more useful to completely expose the Bible as what it is rather than try to make it useful with new interpretations.
Click to expand...

Yes, having watched a couple of his lectures from the biblical series, I really miss an effort to get to the truth of the matter. It seems JP just doesn't want to go there, and in a way, it's understandable, you got to choose your battles, especially if you are in such an exposed position I guess. Nonetheless, JP really figured out a lot about the human condition and his message is extremely useful IMO.
Click to expand...

Having listened to many other lectures by him, I have a theory on why he can't 'go there'.
He has talked about 'rescuing your father from the underworld', in the context of society the 'dead father' is the archaic rigid structures that provide order. He has also talked about Western society being based on Christian ideals (lots of room for errors here). Given his fight against the destruction of society through SJW type ideology, I figure this is his attempt to bring some order to chaos.
I also watched something recently where he talked about psychopaths, and didn't like the idea that some people were born irredeemable - "Let's not assume that the soul is doomed from birth" (video for full context _https://youtu.be/GmuzUZTJ0GA?t=8879).
I also read an article that said he was Christian (which is the first I'd heard of it).

So I figure he has trouble cleaving some of the ideas, especially given the terror (which often seems palpable in his expression/voice) of the chaos engulfing civilization.
I guess then, for him it may come down to the idea that if you are going to throw out the bible (and the 'foundation of Western civilization') how are you any different from those tearing down civilization?
What are you going to replace it with, for those who need guidance?

This is where I figure he's coming from, based on my limited understanding of him.
It is very speculative and low-resolution hypothesis so is likely wide of the mark.

I agree he is missing the crux of things, as we understand them.

But in a sense, Sam Harris kind of is onto something with his critique that you could take a cooking recipe and interpret all kinds of things into it. This is kind of what Peterson does at times - such as when he uses Abraham's sacrifice of his son as a trigger to talk about the necessity of sacrifice, which probably says more about Peterson's understanding and experience than it says about the bible or Christian tradition. OSIT
Click to expand...

Peterson certainly seems neurotic, excitable, and does seem to over-interpret things sometimes. He is at least capable of adjusting course and self-reflecting.
Overall I think he's attempting to wrestle with things much larger than himself, perhaps without enough of a critical network beyond his family and colleagues.
 
Transcripts for the first 7 talks of these Biblical series are available:

https://jordanbpeterson.com/category/transcripts/
 
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