Just how important is grass fed/organic meat?

Carl

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I've read about the benefits of grass fed meat of course, and wish I could afford it, but it's completely out of the picture at the moment.

So I would like to know is it possible to achieve near enough optimal health buy just buying supermarket/butchers meat (the butchers meat is not organic and comes in plastic packets just like supermarket meat), as well as supplementing enough (currently taking vits: B's, C,D3,E, Zinc+Mg, lots of omega 3 oil and enzymes).

Of course it's not ideal, but I'm assuming that by supplementing I can counteract the effects of the grain fed meat etc somewhat. Or am I wrong?

Has anyone else encountered this problem when trying to reach optimal health, and could you point out any supplements that I may be missing, or offer any other advice?

Cheers
 
Is the meat from factory farmed animals / CAFO's (Confined Animal Feeding Operations)? What country do you live in? Because if it's CAFO meat, it's not just the issue of omega 6 to omega 3 ratios which can be dealt with by supplementing omega 3's. But they are pumped up with antibiotics, growth hormones, etc. And have a very horrible life confined in a small area, fed unnatural food, standing in their own feces, etc.

Those animals are NOT health in any way, shape, or form. So I would say at least get meat from animals that aren't from factory farmed operations.
 
I would say it's unlikely to be possible to reach near optimum health for the reasons that SeekinTruth provides. Especially with the toxins, antibiotics, and other issues of CAFO meat, supplementing won't be enough.

It should be possible to get good meats for cheap if you've gotten into ketosis and are focused primarily on fat. Getting good liver from a local pastured farm would be a very cheap way to get high quality nutrition. Getting fat (a farm by me trimmed off large quantities of pig fat from their pigs and would sell it to me on the cheap) from a good source could be cheap as well. There's also ground meat, stew meat, or other "undesirable" cuts that are actually generally more desirable than the expensive cuts (usually with more fat basically) that are cheap and good to get. With a recommended daily intake of .95 mg/kg of protein (according to Nora Gedgaudes of PBPM), you really don't need that much protein (I try and do around 7oz a day), though you may need more if you're still converting to the diet. I estimate that I'm able to feed myself on about $200-$300 a month, and may be able to go cheaper than that if need be.

I definitely think it's really important to get good meat and fat, so these are some ideas to get cheaper stuff and maybe there are other things you spend money on (supplements are one are that gets reduced the longer one's on the diet for, for example) that could be cut to get good food (though it's certainly possible that there aren't--tough money times).

Good luck! :)
 
SeekinTruth said:
Is the meat from factory farmed animals / CAFO's (Confined Animal Feeding Operations)? What country do you live in? Because if it's CAFO meat, it's not just the issue of omega 6 to omega 3 ratios which can be dealt with by supplementing omega 3's. But they are pumped up with antibiotics, growth hormones, etc. And have a very horrible life confined in a small area, fed unnatural food, standing in their own feces, etc.

Those animals are NOT health in any way, shape, or form. So I would say at least get meat from animals that aren't from factory farmed operations.

Foxx said:
I would say it's unlikely to be possible to reach near optimum health for the reasons that SeekinTruth provides. Especially with the toxins, antibiotics, and other issues of CAFO meat, supplementing won't be enough.

It should be possible to get good meats for cheap if you've gotten into ketosis and are focused primarily on fat. Getting good liver from a local pastured farm would be a very cheap way to get high quality nutrition. Getting fat (a farm by me trimmed off large quantities of pig fat from their pigs and would sell it to me on the cheap) from a good source could be cheap as well. There's also ground meat, stew meat, or other "undesirable" cuts that are actually generally more desirable than the expensive cuts (usually with more fat basically) that are cheap and good to get. With a recommended daily intake of .95 mg/kg of protein (according to Nora Gedgaudes of PBPM), you really don't need that much protein (I try and do around 7oz a day), though you may need more if you're still converting to the diet. I estimate that I'm able to feed myself on about $200-$300 a month, and may be able to go cheaper than that if need be.

I definitely think it's really important to get good meat and fat, so these are some ideas to get cheaper stuff and maybe there are other things you spend money on (supplements are one are that gets reduced the longer one's on the diet for, for example) that could be cut to get good food (though it's certainly possible that there aren't--tough money times).

Good luck! :)

After 2 hours searching online for organic meat deliveries (I live in a city centre with no car so won't be driving up to farms any time soon), I was about to throw in the towel due to the expense. However I've just stumbled across a site selling organic meat at very reasonable prices: _http://graigfarm.co.uk/index.php?route=common/home if anyone is interested

This is within my budget until I can get a job, so this seems to have worked out well.

As for the amount of food I eat, I may well still be converting to the diet as I find myself feeling hungry a lot, and have carb cravings when full. Hopefully this will decrease in due time. Thanks for the tip on liver, I guess I'll have to finally sink my teeth into that strange looking meat and see what its like :)
 
Good to hear that you are able to find an organic meat source within your means, Carlise.

For those who just CANNOT get grass-fed / organic meat, eating conventional meat is still MUCH better than not. And some parts are better / less expensive others. Organ meat, for example, is always desirable due to their high nutrition content; pork belly and bacon are also good due to their fat. You can get fat, bone, etc very cheaply from most butchers too. The important thing is to get your body into ketosis. That alone is a huge boost to your health.

That said, keep in mind what SeekingTruth wrote and invest the time and money to find a good source of meat if at all possible.
 
Bobo08 said:
Good to hear that you are able to find an organic meat source within your means, Carlise.

For those who just CANNOT get grass-fed / organic meat, eating conventional meat is still MUCH better than not. And some parts are better / less expensive others. Organ meat, for example, is always desirable due to their high nutrition content; pork belly and bacon are also good due to their fat. You can get fat, bone, etc very cheaply from most butchers too. The important thing is to get your body into ketosis. That alone is a huge boost to your health.

That said, keep in mind what SeekingTruth wrote and invest the time and money to find a good source of meat if at all possible.

This is certainly true--I guess I was a little wrapped up in the ideal. Since they're omnivores and tolerate grains better than ruminents (as far as I'm aware), if I had to eat CAFO meat, I'd probably stick with pork.

I'm glad you were able to find a reasonably priced source, Carlise!
 
I agree with Bobo08 and Foxx's comments. If you HAVE to eat conventional/CAFO meat, tend toward pork. I also don't think they're as damaged as ruminants from being fed grains, etc., as pigs ARE omnivores. In that case you just have to supplement with lots of high quality omega 3's (fish oil and/or krill oil -- kinda expensive, though).

Also, just want to reiterate, there ARE very good cheaper cuts of meat. And when you're fully keto adapted, you will begin to eat much less and save money and time in the long run. While still feeling hungry during the transition/adaptation, eat fat snacks such as grass fed butter, cracklings, eggs, etc. In my country, organ meats are the cheapest -- around half the price per kilogram as muscle meats and bacon, etc. So you get the most nutrition for the least cost. Also eggs tend to be quite cheap here -- delicious with very deep yoke color. Fat is also very cheap, in the range of 1/3 of muscle meats per kilo.

So if you look into it some more, you'll probably find that it IS affordable to eat healthy in affordable ways. And organ meats are really super nutritious (especially non-CAFO healthy organs) and taste delicious. Liver with lots of sauteed onions and eaten with butter is just divine. You can search the forum for liver and other organ recipes. As I said, though it will vary from country/location to country/location, organ meats are the best investment along with fat like lard, tallow, etc. (also organ meats have a very good level of healthy fats and a balance of all other important micro and macro nutrients).

If you tolerate butter and eggs, you can't go wrong with those either. All these foods are chock full of very important nutrients. Hope I'm not being too confusing, but it IS important to try to get properly raised and fed animal products though. Otherwise many of the important nutrients will not be present, such as Vitamin K2 in eggs and butter. Good luck to you in your adventures, Carlise (and everyone else in similar situations). Hope this helps with ideas and some perspective.
 
Hi Carlise, all good advice given - it really is cheaper this way using organic food - cutting out carbs and processed foods. Do rerad all the relevant threads on starting the Paleo diet and getting keto adapted. There is a wealth of advice and experience gained by those undertaking this way of eating, along with the required supplements as you go through the process.

To help you further, this thread may help you, or not - in the Diet and Health thread - UK organic meat suppliers:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,25973.msg309682.html#msg309682
 
Thanks for all the great replies, you've all been a big help.

I will be making the switch to organic as soon as possible, and living on mainly pork for a couple of days until then. I was amazed by how cheap organ meats are, maybe this won't be so expensive after all!

Thanks for the link prodigal son, it was quite silly of me to not search for "uk organic meat" on this forum in the first place :p.
 
Also Carlise, when you convert to the paleo diet and lose the carb cravings, you basically eat little more than meat, which means overall cost of feeding yourself is usually less compared to what you had to pay when eating carbs too.
If you push on past the cravings, they do subside a lot and it becomes pretty easy to go Paleo.
 
Carlise said:
As for the amount of food I eat, I may well still be converting to the diet as I find myself feeling hungry a lot, and have carb cravings when full. Hopefully this will decrease in due time.

One thing you can try which may help is the Leptin Rx protocol. (quoted and discussed in the Life Without Bread)
 
One for the road, in total agreement with all other post as the benefits, out weigh the cost. And in the end, it pays for itself in the long run, in so many of the ways already mentioned as well benefiting your immune system.

Grass Fed, Open Range

_http://www.beltaneranch.com/beef.html

HOW WE RAISE OUR CATTLE

Our cattle are bred and born in the open hills above Sonoma Valley. We select our calves at approximately one year of age and allow them to mature naturally for another year or more in our pastures. They are rotated through several pastures to the benefit of both the cattle and the land. Handled gently and
never confined, our cattle live in a natural and stress-free environment. They are fed no antibiotics, hormones or grain.

HEALTH BENEFITS OF GRASS-FED BEEF
GRASS-FED BEEF, COMPARED TO COMMERCIALLY RAISED FEEDLOT BEEF CONTAINS APPROXIMATELY

10 times more beta-carotene

3 times more vitamin E

3 times more Omega-3 fatty acids

3 times more CLA (conjugated linoleic acid)

COOKING GRASS-FED BEEF

Grass-fed beef cooks much more quickly than commercially raised, corn-fed beef. It is leaner and richer in healthy fats that melt at a lower temperature. Generally, for steaks and hamburgers, cook at a lower temperature and for about 30% less time. Grass-fed steaks are meant to be cooked rare or medium rare. You might want to start with hamburgers rather than steaks to get a sense of how quickly it cooks. Remember that the meat will continue to cook after it is removed from the heat. Never use a microwave to thaw your beef. Grass-fed beef has a rich and robust flavor, the way beef is supposed to taste.

From the Competition of lot kept, corn fed.
_http://www.harrisranchbeef.com/aboutus/safety.html

Feeding Practices – cattle (typically 18 – 24 mo. of age at processing) are fed a diet consisting primarily of Midwestern corn and other locally grown feeds. Our cattle rations have never contained animal proteins, and they never will. Finally, we regularly test incoming feedstuffs for unwanted pesticide residues.

Animal Health – cattle are evaluated every day for health status. Those requiring treatment are moved to hospital pens, individually identified, then managed with strict adherence to health product withdrawal periods. Cattle are routinely tested for antibiotic residues through our Residue Control Program.

Residue Control Program – was initiated in 1985, and since then, we have never had a violation of stringent standards (above those required by USDA) for either antibiotic or pesticide residues!

Commodity Transport – using our own freight company allows us complete control of all commodities (feedstuffs and live cattle) that move to and from the feeding facility. As such, there is no chance for cross-contamination of prohibited feedstuffs to occur.

Truck Sanitation – all trucks and trailers are cleaned in a state-of-the-art truck washing facility before each load of cattle is transported to the processing facility. This helps avoid any possibility of cross contamination.

Cattle Washed – upon arrival at the processing facility cattle are washed to remove physical material (dust/manure) from the hide prior to entry into the processing area.

More information on there practices on the connection above.
............................................
Healthy Theory
_http://www.healthytheory.com/corn-fed-vs-grass-fed-beef
Corn-Fed Vs. Grass-Fed Beef by Karen Eisenbraun

If you buy beef at your local supermarket, chances are it comes from cows that were fed corn. Though cows are ruminants by nature, designed to digest grass, the cattle industry has been using corn for decades to fatten up cattle. A grain-based diet, however, causes many health problems for cattle — and unhealthy cows mean unhealthy meat. Not only does meat from corn-fed cows carry the risk of pathogens such as E. coli, it is nutritionally inferior to meat from grass-fed cows.

The evolution of a corn-fed cattle industry


Several decades ago, the cattle industry began feeding cattle a diet based on grain, particularly corn. During World War II, farmers were producing more grain than the American population could consume, so they started feeding the surplus to cattle. They found that a grain-fed diet allowed them to fatten up cows faster for slaughter. Seventy-five years ago, it took a cow 4 or 5 years to reach a weight of 1,200 pounds. Today, says John Robbins, author of author of The Food Revolution: How Your Diet Can Help Save Your Life and Our World, cattle can be slaughtered at just 14-16 months of age, thanks to massive amounts of corn, protein supplements, antibiotics, and growth hormones,

Unhealthy cows mean unhealthy meat


Switching cows from grass to grain puts more money in the beef industry’s pockets and cheaper meat on the supermarket shelves. But at what price? The stomachs of cows are naturally pH neutral. A corn-based diet, however, creates an acidic environment that contributes to a host of health problems. Corn-fed cattle are prone to serious health conditions such as bloat, diarrhea, ulcers, liver disease, and a weakened immune system. To combat these health problems, cattle are continually fed antibiotics, which leads to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria that increasingly render modern medicine ineffective.

The threat of E. coli

An acidic intestinal tract also favors the growth of E. coli. Michael Pollan, author of The Omnivore’s Dilemma, states that the lethal strain of E. coli known as 0157:H7 is believed to have evolved in the gut of feedlot cattle. The development of a more acidic environment in cows’ intestinal tracts created an acid-resistant strain of the pathogen, which is able to survive the acidic conditions of the human stomach and prove fatal. In the documentary Food, Inc., Pollan states that switching feedlot cattle to a grass diet would eliminate 80 percent of the E. coli in the cows’ digestive tracts.

The benefits of grass-fed beef


Aside from posing the danger of E. coli, corn-fed beef contains far fewer nutrients than grass-fed beef. Prevention reports that a recent study by the USDA and researchers from Clemson University found grass-fed beef to be significantly higher in calcium, magnesium, beta-carotene, and potassium than corn-fed beef. In addition:

Meat from grass-fed cattle is lower in both overall fat and artery-clogging saturated fat.
Grass-fed meat is higher in healthy omega-3 fats. Meat from feedlot animals has been found to contain only 15-50 percent as much omega-3s as meat from grass-fed cattle.
Meat from grass-fed livestock is four times higher in vitamin E.
Grass-fed meat is higher in conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), a nutrient associated with lower cancer risk.
What you can do

Look for grass-fed beef at specialty stores, farmers markets, and health-food chains such as Whole Foods. Grass-fed beef is labeled and is usually more expensive than industry-standard corn-fed beef. To save money, buy cuts on the bone; processors usually charge extra for deboning.

Remember that grass-fed and organic are not the same thing. Natural food stores often sell organic beef and dairy products from animals raised without antibiotics or hormones. While these animals were likely fed less grain than the industry norm, they may still come from feedlots where they were fed grain. Look for meat labeled both grass-fed and organic.

Consider buying beef directly from a local farmer, which can be as cheap as $5 per pound. Many farmers will allow customers to visit the farm to ensure that cattle are being raised in healthy conditions. To find a farm in your area, visit www.eatwild.com.
 

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c.a. said:
...
Grass Fed, Open Range

_http://www.beltaneranch.com/beef.html
...


Hey, that place is only 90 miles from here. I had forgotten about it. They don't ship, but it's not that long of a drive. It might even be fun to stay there at the B&B. I will make sure it is on our list of sources to consider. Thanks!
 
Just how important is grass fed/organic meat? very important:

_http://www.livescience.com/19823-grass-fed-evolution-altered-environment-fueled-human-change.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Livesciencecom+%28LiveScience.com+Science+H said:
The arrival of a new variety of plants, particularly grasses, may have altered the environment in ways that could have helped push our ancestors to acquire traits that would come to define modern humans.

[...]

The spread of the savanna grasses may have been a precondition for the evolution of the traits that characterize our genus, Homo, suggested Rowan Sage, of the University of Toronto.

The key — as it is to so much about life on Earth — is photosynthesis, Sage said. In photosynthesis, plants take in carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, and using water and energy from the sun, convert it to organic matter. In the process they produce oxygen, a component of the atmosphere and an element necessary for animal life.

After about 35 million years ago, an upgraded version of photosynthesis emerged, called the C4 pathway. And in time the plants that employed it, including grasses and sedges, spread. A declining level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere appears to have been responsible for the switch to C4. Chemical evidence suggests the greenhouse gas declined over tens of millions of years. [10 Things That Make Humans Special]

C4 plants could use carbon dioxide more efficiently to feed themselves, and they used less water, making them well adapted to dry environments, like those favored during the Pliocene Epoch, which began about 5.3 million years ago, when grasslands and savannas spread.

As a potential source of food, the C4 plants weren't the best innovation. They offered tough, fibrous leaves, small-seeded grains and small, fibrous rhizomes. Even today, only a few dozen C4 plants, most significantly maize and sugar cane, are cultivated for food.

But some other animals were better adapted to digesting these plants. Ruminants, such as cows and buffalo, regurgitate and re-chew a tough meal, Sage said.

"So the possibility is human evolution was driven by our ancestors going out and taking down the (animals) who could digest the C4 vegetation.

:whistle:
 
I think I'm beginning to see what all the fuss is about.

This morning at 11 am (after a long melatonin induced sleep) I cooked my first ever organic breakfast of eggs, bacon and additive free sausage. It was a large breakfast as recommended, and I was extremely full afterwards. It is now 8:26pm and all I've consumed all day is water, some green tea and a handful of almonds. I'm still not hungry! At least, not in the sense that I used to get hungry, it's just a very subtle indication from my body that it should be time to eat (as has been described in the LWB thread). So I'm about to make some organic ox liver and onion for my next and final meal of the day and see if I can stomach the taste :) .

I've also experienced a very noticable effect on my mood. I don't know if this is placebo or something else, as I suspected it would take longer to truly appreciate the benefits of organic meat. However I've been full of energy for the past few hours, chatting to everyone and with virtually no narcissistic thoughts at all. Just got back from running a few errands and I still feel brilliant. Also, smoking is a lot nicer as well, it's really enjoyable.

I knew there were extra nutrients but I didn't think the organic meat would make this much difference. Maybe it's coincided with me fully crossing into keto adaption and that's where the energy has come from..

Anyway thanks a lot for all the info that has been provided! It's also looking very likely that I'll soon have a job, so I may just be able to keep this up :) .
 
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