Justice in America - My grand daughter

[Maia]

Okay, topic for this forum is to talk about what ever is on your mind.

If you have a grandchild(ren) visit them as often as you can. Hug them, kiss them, spoil them.

Men seem to fall in love and marry according to the head between their legs as was the case with my oldest son.

"Wow mom, what do you think, isn't she beautiful!"

I warned him, "beauty is skin deep, she's a arrogrant, spoiled rhymes with witch means a female dog".

The marriage lasted a little over a year. They both worked, she got pregnant, had a gorgeous beautiful apple of my eye little girl named Alexis and preceded to go to go back to work days, school two nights a week and kareoking at bars the rest of the week.

Subsequently, my son would come home from work and be the main care giver, changing diapers, feeding and singing her to sleep. One thing about my son, against the sterotyped white male, he was and is a good father. He had a good example, my husband is the epitamy of fatherhood.

Anyway, the marriage lasted barely two years and she took off and hid with our grand daughter for three months, we had no idea where they were.

In passing, when she pulled out of the driveway, I said, whatever occurred between Michael and you is none of my business but my grand daughter is my business - I can write you a check each month for $1,500 if you don't make this into a nasty divorce that destroys Alexis's psyche.

continued...............

 

[Maia]

--------continued.


I just need to get this off my chest as I miss my granddaughter so much my heart aches. She has asked me, "Why won't the judge at least ask me who I want to live with?"

Granted, my son at present does not have a job (he lost his last two good paying jobs because his ex wife called and lied to them about him).

Many times a mother will say, my son is perfect, he doesn't lie, cheat or steal, well my son is not perfect but he was never abusive and always a hard worker and good father.

The ex daughter in law has called my son's fiance and stalked both of them, she has even punched him in the police parking lot with the police watching and they laughed because she is 5'and 105 pounds while my son is 6'and 230 pounds. If he had just pushed her away he would have ended up in jail.

There are two sets of laws in this country, one for women and one for men and women now have the upper hand in most cases, depending on how good of a lawyer you have.

The night my son's ex-wife punched him, my granddaughter came over crying that mommy was punching papa for no reason, just hitting him all over and the policemen laughed. Grammie, Why did the policeman laugh, I thought they were suppose to stop people hitting each other?"

My granddaughter is 9 and has told me she hates her mother. I have tried telling her, You will always love your mother because she is your mother but you may not like what she is doing and therein lies a conflict and makes you feel bad inside". Her reply was, "My mother drives me crazy".

My ex daughter in law is a psychopath, just like her father. she lies, steals (has stolen from me), cheats and is very promiscuous.

There is no justice for the White American male in America.

If I have but one warning to any young man out there you best be very careful who you give your heart to. And really be careful having children. Marriage is legal contract and once a child is involved the courts usually dictate that the child (or children) belong (like property) to the mother. Statistics are that in most divorce cases, the mother is awarded custody 80% of the time.

I just want to see my granddaughter.

My son's ex-wife is trying to alienate her from us because she is so tormented that her parents didn't want Lexie (or her).

Another warning to young men.

Beauty is only skin deep. Many (not all) of the "beautiful babes" are spoiled princesses.

Look beyond physical appearances, you can always see a plastic surgeon, but the heart, the soul cannot be changed.

Watch how your "sweetie pie" treats her enemies, does she engage joyfully in battling everyone or does she live and let live. The latter is the better.

Is she able to compromise and share? Men have got to start thinking with the head on their shoulders.

I tried to warn my son that some choices he makes will haunt him for the rest of his life.
But as usual nobody listens to me.

I miss my granddaughter and just wish I could have kissed her, held her and wished her a happy Thanksgiving and Christmas.

My son's ex is trying to alienate our granddaughter from both her father, grandfather and me.

My husband says it's working the opposite way as Lexie commented to him, "I can't wait to live with my papa, when I am twelve I am going to runaway from my mama and live with papa".

So many key latch children, so many children cut off from their paternal family - and no I don't think it's happenstance.

It's planned that way. United we stand, divided we fall.

 

[Laura]

Wow. Been there, done that, though it was a niece. You have my full sympathies. The only thing to do, as far as I can tell, is find a really good, ruthless atty.

 

[mamadrama]

You have my sympathy as well, Water Bearer.

Custody battles are always debilitating and so often it's the children who get hurt the most. It's just heartbreaking when one or both parents use their children to get back at the other parent.

There has been a trend for quite some time in the US for 50/50 parenting and joint custody, though. While mothers used to be given priority, I don't think that is so much the case anymore. In my state the preferred custody arrangement is 50/50. Unless you can prove in court that the other parent is unfit, and that means grossly unfit - criminal record, substance abuse, extremem mental illness, etc., you are pretty much guaranteed this will be the outcome.

You haven't mentioned what your son's visiting schedule is but it may be worth seeing a good lawyer as Laura has said, to see if change is possible. Also, your grandaughter may be right, in some states teenagers are allowed to choose which parent they want to reside with so perhaps you and your son can pursue that option eventually.

At any rate, my heart goes out to you and I wish you all the best. I know from personal experience how difficult all of this can be.

 

[Maia]

We've been through three lawyers. The first was Jeffrey Levine who wrote "Father's Rights" he totally messed up "joint custody".

If you are in the Chicago area do not use him, his associates don't know squat.

My son now finally has a half way decent lawyer but so far my husband and I have spent over $12,000 in lawyer fees (for all three lawyers) - not to baby our son but just to be able to see our grand daughter.

She is almost as tall as me, as cute as can be and has been through more than most. She's a little trooper.

I would have rather given the money to my son's ex than lawyers for the upkeep of Lexie, but my son's ex just really enjoys fighting. She fights with her co-workers (has been let go from quite a few jobs), fights with neighbors, hides her address (has a PO Box), changes the license plates on her car before dropping Lexie off at a half way point.

Will not let us know where they live at or a phone number.

We would never contact her anyway, I'm not a fighter, in a fight situation I tend to back off. But if an emergency happened, it would be nice to get a hold of them.

Joint custody - IS A JOKE. In Illinois that means the (usually the father) can see his child(ren) for 48 hours every two weeks. No Christmas plays, no dance recitals, no knowing what school or doctor your child is seeing.

And my ex daughter in law is out and out disobeying the court's order - has several times and the court simply doesn't care.

When questioned, Lexie cries and says, "Please don't ask me, if mama finds out I said anything she will get really mad at me."

I've just learned that the old male judge was retired and the new judge is a young woman (oh boy )

If I could only speak in court for three minutes.

Have even offered to pay to have the court hav We have even offered to pay for the court to assign her a conselor to talk with her, but the court doesn't even recognize Lexie as a person with rights until age 12.

Illinois is a backward state in many ways.

I just would like to be able to see my granddaughter.

 

[mamadrama]

She ... hides her address (has a PO Box), changes the license plates on her car before dropping Lexie off at a half way point.

Will not let us know where they live at or a phone number.

Seriously?!? This is legal in Illinois? In my state both parents are required to give their address to the other parent and also must notify the other anytime one of them moves.

We would never contact her anyway, I'm not a fighter, in a fight situation I tend to back off. But if an emergency happened, it would be nice to get a hold of them.

Of course.

Joint custody - IS A JOKE. In Illinois that means the (usually the father) can see his child(ren) for 48 hours every two weeks. No Christmas plays, no dance recitals, no knowing what school or doctor your child is seeing.

And my ex daughter in law is out and out disobeying the court's order - has several times and the court simply doesn't care.

Have you filed contempt charges against her? It may take a few times but eventually the court will have to act on the non-compliance of your ex daughter-in-law.

When questioned, Lexie cries and says, "Please don't ask me, if mama finds out I said anything she will get really mad at me."

Yes, it's best not to put pressure on her. No need for her to feel caught in the middle of this feud. Have you thought about hiring a private detective? Just to follow them and get their home address and where your grandaughter goes to school? Might be worth your while.

I've just learned that the old male judge was retired and the new judge is a young woman (oh boy )

Well, this could work in your favor. A new judge is more likely to care about compliance with the law and may penalize your daughter-in-law for contempt alot quicker than an old judge would.

I'm no lawyer but it sure seems like you've got a good case for some status change in your son's custoday situation. Hang in there!

 

[Ca.]

author=The Water Bearer
We've been through three lawyers. The first was Jeffrey Levine who wrote "Father's Rights" he totally messed up "joint custody".

If you are in the Chicago area do not use him, his associates don't know squat.

My son now finally has a half way decent lawyer but so far my husband and I have spent over $12,000 in lawyer fees (for all three lawyers) - not to baby our son but just to be able to see our grand daughter

.

The Water Bearer, Lawyers are dime a dozen and like a dentist, its hard find one that knows what there trained to do and do it right. I looked up this site in your area (in Illinois) that give referrals, in procuring the help that you may need. They have been in business since 2001. But you would do best to investgate any referral for yourself as well, with on line search if your able to double check any an all claims.

The Best of luck to you, and all concerned.



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[monksgirl]

Water Bearer, I am so sorry to hear of this; I have a friend who has the exact same problem for years. The expenses are outrageous, but you have to keep filing on the Mom when you have grounds, such as being out of compliance with the order; and this helps build a historic record of parental acts with the court, and gives the family judge more opportunity to observe the pathological parent. Have psychiatric exams been ordered on both parents? This helped my friend to get custody herself for a year since her son was also unemployed, so she got joint custody with the mother, as long as the son stayed with his parents during visitations during the year of the order. The mother of the child in my friends case was found borderline personality disorder and narcissistic with a very low but normal range IQ, she was sexually abused by her own father when a small child. She also pressures the child to not tell what goes on in her house or to talk about her to the father and grandparents. But in Texas, the child will be 8 this spring, so she can go into judge's chambers without any family, and tell the judge who she wants to live with. Learn all you can about the family law in IL so you can help the lawyer with pertinent info; because -as always- the knowledge protects....
and as I tell my friend, the grandchild will be 8 this year, that means you are half-way through with any attorney fees (when child is 16) , so remember the light at the end of the tunnel is not a train!

 

[Maia]

Have you filed contempt charges against her? It may take a few times but eventually the court will have to act on the noncompliance of your ex daughter-in-law.

Thank you Black Swan

Yes, several times, this February my son's lawyer will list the fourth and fifth non compliance of court rulings (January was cancelled because his wife is having a baby).

My son's lawyer also believes that a younger female judge will be more strict and want to address my son's ex's non compliance. The old judge that was handling the case has just retired.

I miss my grand daughter.

We have these talks together, she is such a sweet, kind and gentle child, but very strong. She tells me, "Grandma, you worry too much, calm down - I will be alright, I know what is going on and the time will come when they will have to listen to me."

For nine she is quite mature, she has a insight about things that astonishes me. Once while they dropped by I was reading, Laura's book, "High Strangeness" and set it aside when she picked it up (she reads at an adult level but hates math like I did/do) and started reading it - I told her, "This is an adult book, and she said, "Well when you think I'm ready, I'd like to look this over some more. "Some of this stuff is very interesting to me". Boy, that floored me. I've been buying her Scott Westerfield's Midnighters and Uglies series and she says she knows there are other dimensions and worlds beyond what our eyes can see - "It's only logical" :O

She and her father are very close. I am proud that my son is such a good father. We are keeping a tab on all the money we are spending on this and deducting it from his inheritance (we have a house and townhouse).

Funny, if this young lady had played her cards right and been nice, in order to make sure Lexie had a nice stable place to grow up in I would have given her the townhouse, but this person would rather give all her and my son's money to the lawyers and play my grand daughter as a pawn vs keeping everything amiable.

Beyond me how someone can enjoy fighting and causing misery. She is a tortured soul. It's not totally her fault, she was raised with so much hatred.

It has really helped me tremendously to talk about this personal issue here.
:)
My husband and other two sons, "don't want to hear about it".

I appreciate everyones feedback.

 

[Maia]

Have psychiatric exams been ordered on both parents?

Thank you Monksgirl :)

In answer to your question, no and I have asked and asked that all three be examined, Lexie included and that I myself would pay for it. But, the court simply does not care so far.

My son's ex would probably pass this however because she is a habitual liar and knows how to work the system.

Lexie was having problems in school with lying and stealing and I told her there are honorable people and dishonorable people.

"Honorable people do not lie, cheat or steal."

She replied, "Well mama does it all the time, once she got $100.00 worth of clothes in a store for free".

I told her, "The choice is yours, you can be an honest person or a dishonest person.

She then asked me if we ever steal stuff because we have a lot of stuff. I told her no, "Grandpa and I worked for everything we have" and she said, "Papa doesn't steal either, he even went back to a restaurant when they undercharged him and the waitress was crying thank you, did you know that if a waitress makes a mistake they have to pay for it? When I told mama, how honest papa was, she laughed and called him a stupid jerk".

I've also been reading Political Ponerology which is a book Laura has promoted and my son's ex has a tendency towards having a pathological personality. This book is a tremendous help in that it has informed me as to my ex daughter in law's mindset which is quite alien to me. Cannot recommend this book highly enough.

 

[Gertrudes]

The Water Bearer, I'm very sorry that you are going through this. More so for your granddaughter who is living with her pathological mother. I can't for the heart of me understand how children's custody can be dealt with the way it is dealt within the process of a divorce, and still be legal.

I wanted to mention though, that if you are enjoying so much Political Ponerology you might as well check out the other books in the Psychopathy section of the Recommended reading list.
Also, The Narcissism "Big Five" section, although not as directly related to pathological and psychopathic behaviour, are extremely helpful for an understanding of one's, and others' inner landscape and behaviour.

I wish you all the best The Water Bearer.

 

[monksgirl]

Have psychiatric exams been ordered on both parents?

Thank you Monksgirl :)

My son's ex would probably pass this however because she is a habitual liar and knows how to work the system.

"Honorable people do not lie, cheat or steal."
"The choice is yours, you can be an honest person or a dishonest person.


I've also been reading Political Ponerology which is a book Laura has promoted and my son's ex has a tendency towards having a pathological personality. This book is a tremendous help in that it has informed me as to my ex daughter in law's mindset which is quite alien to me. Cannot recommend this book highly enough.

Ponerology is a great read, and you can't look at the Congress the same way afterwards! Sounds like your grandaughter is getting all the best advice available under the circumstances, and has some very good instincts of her own. Ask the lawyer if there aren't some new tactics to get a psych eval done, maybe the new judge will do the trick; there should be a way to present such info to the judge before a hearing. My friend's lawyer asked her grandchild's Mom some questions during a hearing that kind of set her off, and clued the judge in that she wasn't all she presented herself to be. And psychiatrists have seen them all, they'll see the ex coming a mile away, and her manipulations will not go unnoticed.