Ketogenic diet AND hypocholesterolemia. How is that possible?

[MK Scarlett]

I have to ask here why being in ketogenic diet for three years my cholesterol is low and especially lower than before. I guess it could have several meanings, but for now, I can't figure out what exactly, so I need help.

Hereafter the blood results from 2010 (I was a vegetarian then) to today:

2010: 1.90 g/l
2013: 2.00 g/l
2015: 1.37 g/l

Has anyone ever seen that before? Because "of course", for my doctor, all this is "normal" and even "better" for me. I saw an endocrinologist two days ago because of an autoimmune thyroid recently detected in last June. She also is a diabetologist and nutritionnist. For her, nothing wrong. Well I am not frankly surprised here because she seemed so dogmatic and even a bit appalling with me when I talked about my diet when she asked me for. She even did not knew the subject of ketogenic diet nor the name. So I talked to her about those epileptics children who are treated with ketogenic diet at the Necker hospital in Paris (one of the famous for childs by the way). She answered to me: "Well, I'm gonna call phone Necker hospital". I answered to her, "Do it, I do not lie you know."

I will not transcribe here the whole discussion but I just want to share that I talked to her very carefully because of her behavior from the beginning. When we talked about carbohydrates and sugar, you will not believe what she said to me: "You can eat 3 kg (6.61 lb) of sugar by day, you won't become diabetic, not before many many years". What? How can she tell that to a patient as a diabetologist? She also works at a hospital and I feel very so sorry for her patients.

And I do not know yet what kind of autoimmune thyroid I have. None of those doctors answered to me for now.

I'm not planning to see her again, the thing is I wanted to see an endocrinologist to get the chance to make further blood tests in the first place. Now I have to do them at the beginning of next week. Here they are:

Calcitonin
Hypercalcemia
Vit. D
Catecholamines (by 24h urine collection)
Aldosterone
Renin
Aldo/Renine

When I saw those hypocholesterolemia results in last June, I search for reasons, because to me, being in ketogenic diet for three years and see my levels of cholesterol down was not "normal". So, once I was at home I searched and what I have found led me to get back to my doctor and try to make him talk about a thyroid issue because from Wikipedia:

Hypocholesterolemia
Abnormally low levels of cholesterol are termed hypocholesterolemia. Research into the causes of this state is relatively limited, but some studies suggest a link with depression, cancer, and cerebral hemorrhage. In general, the low cholesterol levels seem to be a consequence, rather than a cause, of an underlying illness.[57] A genetic defect in cholesterol synthesis causes Smith-Lemli-Opitz syndrome, which is often associated with low plasma cholesterol levels. Hyperthyroidism, or any other endocrine disturbance which causes upregulation of the LDL receptor may result in hypocholesterolaemia.

Yet, I had to insist to make him "think" and talk about maybe a thyroid issue, without say anything to him to led him to this, finally.

Hereafter the results of the blood-test:

T3: 2.76 pg/ml
T4: 1.04 ng/dl
TSH: 2.580 uUI/ml (which is higher and higher along the years yet it is not so bad, or I think so.)

Anti-thyroperoxidase: 122.7 U/ml
Anti-thyroglobulin: 90.8 U/ml

I do know that those levels are not really "significant", that they can be far higher for other people, and yet, I'd like to know why there are higher than normal, at least.

I do not know if this might be relevant or not, but with the last session and the Autoimmune diseases caused by an amoeba infection? thread, I found on the Wikipedia Mycoplasma page (the French one, I do not know if this is the case on the English one) that "mycoplasmas have specific requirements in cholesterol or sterol". The link to the related article is this one _http://jb.asm.org/content/171/12/6455.long.

And I just found something related on the English Wikipedia :

In addition to its importance within cells, cholesterol also serves as a precursor for the biosynthesis of steroid hormones, bile acids, and vitamin D.[5] Cholesterol is the principal sterol synthesized by animals. All kinds of cells in animals can produce it. In vertebrates the hepatic cells typically produce greater amounts than other cells. It is almost completely absent among prokaryotes (bacteria and archaea), although there are some exceptions such as Mycoplasma, which require cholesterol for growth.

I am not saying I've got Mycoplasma, and I do not have finish yet to read the entire thread about Autoimmune diseases yet, but I thought I could ask.

Edit: Spelling and modifying the title

 

[RedFox]

Hi MK Scarlett

Are you eating enough fat?
A few carbs may help with the thyroid count, but not enough fat would also cause thyroid problems.

Something else to consider:

Hi Mildain

Could it be that you have digestive problems with regard to the fat, and the body is trying to stop you eating more than it can handle?

Do you get pain in your right or left side below your ribs after a meal? Shoulder or neck pain? Gas or bloating?
You may need to supplement with a digestive aid, especially an acid as this triggers bile release to digest fat.
This may be why ACV works (it's acidic and promotes bile flow).

Another possibility is you are perhaps sensitive to the types of fat? Coconut oil is inflammatory for a lot of people.

 

[casper]

I found this information, it's not my profession, but this is the end of the article seemed interesting, quote:
Picture lipid and lipoprotein levels were variable and is affected by many factors: food, smoking, alcohol intake, body position changes and stresses. Initial state and development of the disease can be assessed only on the basis of analysis of samples that were extracted under standard conditions. The patient must not 12 hours before the blood draw to consume food and alcohol, but it is preferable that it is not exposed to stressful situations because it can lead to falsely decreased values.
Link:
https://translate.google.hr/translate?sl=hr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=hr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vasezdravlje.com%2Fprintable%2Fizdanje%2Fclanak%2F2776%2F&edit-text=


You might want to make another test to confirm or not this finding blood. I think you need to do even more checks, thyroid and liver.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Thank you for your answers RedFox and Casper.

Hi MK Scarlett

Are you eating enough fat?
A few carbs may help with the thyroid count, but not enough fat would also cause thyroid problems.

Something else to consider:

Hi Mildain

Could it be that you have digestive problems with regard to the fat, and the body is trying to stop you eating more than it can handle?

Do you get pain in your right or left side below your ribs after a meal? Shoulder or neck pain? Gas or bloating?
You may need to supplement with a digestive aid, especially an acid as this triggers bile release to digest fat.
This may be why ACV works (it's acidic and promotes bile flow).

Another possibility is you are perhaps sensitive to the types of fat? Coconut oil is inflammatory for a lot of people.

About enough fat, I take a bone broth from my own recipe each morning. Then, I usually eat pork chop with plenty of fat lard that I do myself as well. Sometimes, I only eat a half of it because they can be very big. In that case, I also eat some liver paté and/or Pork rillettes. In the evening, I also use to eat pork or lamb with plenty of fat lard or duck fat, or chicken wings (because of fat skin) with plenty of fat lard or duck fat as well. Sometimes I mix fat lard and duck fat. I also eat red meat three times a week, always mixed with pork or lamb.

I recently (some months ago) added in the evening a bit of courgettes or green beans, or green salad (essentially Batavia and red Batavia) with avocado and the fat lard left from the meat cooked and some avocado oil and virgin olive oil; With this salad and avocado I usually also add some pieces of smocked duck breast. This is mostly the current diet I have each day.

I sometimes have a fasting period usually around 15 hours, never more, because I often am too angry to go longer without eat.

I do not get pain after eating, nor gas or bloating. I also take supplements as Zinc, Selenium, Magnesium malate and Vit. E each evening during the meal, and for 10 days now (then after the blood results), I also did another cure of probiotics (on the evening as well). I did not have any digest fat trouble from the beginning of the ketogenic diet three years ago as well for today and I feel good after eating. As supplements on the morning I take Omega 3 from krill oil, hyaluronic acid, DHEA (50 mg), Vit. B complex and I also take evening primrose oil three times a day for the perimenopause. I also make some cure of 5-HTP intermittently.

About coconut oil, I do not use it anymore. I sometimes eat coco cream that I usually use when I prepare kind of smoothie with red fruits as blueberries and blackberries.

Could it be that this amount of fat is not enough for me? But it does not seem to me that it is very different than it used to be before. I guess I might increase it in the next weeks and see what happen in the next blood tests.
Thanks again RedFox. :)

I found this information, it's not my profession, but this is the end of the article seemed interesting, quote:
Picture lipid and lipoprotein levels were variable and is affected by many factors: food, smoking, alcohol intake, body position changes and stresses. Initial state and development of the disease can be assessed only on the basis of analysis of samples that were extracted under standard conditions. The patient must not 12 hours before the blood draw to consume food and alcohol, but it is preferable that it is not exposed to stressful situations because it can lead to falsely decreased values.
Link:
https://translate.google.hr/translate?sl=hr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=hr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vasezdravlje.com%2Fprintable%2Fizdanje%2Fclanak%2F2776%2F&edit-text=

You might want to make another test to confirm or not this finding blood. I think you need to do even more checks, thyroid and liver.

The blood results were made on June 27 and I also have in mind to do others in the next weeks, as I do know that cholesterol levels can move from one day to another and even move from morning to afternoon. Well, of course I did not eat, smoke or took alcohol (as I do not drink any) during the 13 hours and took care to not be stressed as well the day before to make the blood tests. As for liver, AST and ALAT were good in 2013, but I guess that I might ask to make others in the same time than the next cholesterol blood tests.

As for the stress, it is true that the last year was stressful in my life with emotional shocks, but things are going better from the beginning of June. However, I'm writing an update about my current situation from yesterday as it takes me time to do so.
Thanks again Casper. :)

Edit: Added informations

 

[Laura]

Your diet sounds pretty darn good to me. Perhaps adding a fat bomb a day would help?

 

[Jacques]

If you are not allergic to coconut oil, maybe you could use it because according to Dr Fife it is excellent to regulate the thyroid.

_http://www.amazon.com/The-Coconut-Ketogenic-Diet-Supercharge/dp/0941599949

 

[Laura]

If you are not allergic to coconut oil, maybe you could use it because according to Dr Fife it is excellent to regulate the thyroid.

_http://www.amazon.com/The-Coconut-Ketogenic-Diet-Supercharge/dp/0941599949

Make fatbombs with coconut cream!!!

 

[Gaby]

MK Scarlett, low cholesterol levels are more frequent in those afflicted with autoimmune diseases. Low cholesterol levels can show up consistently five years before a diagnosis of disease, i.e rheumatoid arthritis:

Total Cholesterol and LDL levels decrease before rheumatoid arthritis
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2890039/

More clues:

Autoimmune Conditions and LOW Cholesterol: Understanding Correlations
http://www.sott.net/article/244146-Autoimmune-Conditions-and-LOW-Cholesterol-Understanding-Correlations

It is very common for certain autoimmune diseases (such as RA) to feature various types of infection. Studies such as THIS have shown that LDL has the capability of reducing pathogens and infectious bacteria. Endotoxins from gram negative bacteria bind to LDL particles. When bound to LDL, they are inactivated. Additionally, when endotoxins are bound to LDL, the toxins are unable to trigger the production of pro-inflammatory cytokines such as TNF-a. Therefore, if there is insignificant cholesterol and LDL, a person may be at an increased risk for infection.

What is essential to understand is that insufficient cholesterol in the tissues and low LDL levels can result in high levels of inflammation, decreased immunity, susceptibility to infections, decreased antioxidants and hormone insufficiencies. Due to the fact that roughly 80% of the cholesterol in the blood is made by the liver, a decreased production of cholesterol may be highly reflective of liver toxicity and/or bile insufficiency. The fact that cholesterol is an anabolic lipid (life building and supporting; anabolic processes inhibit inflammation and degeneration) suggests that low levels of cholesterol is reflective of catabolism, degeneration, and the cell and tissue destructive effects of free radical activity.

It is stated here that sufficient cholesterol available in human tissues possesses the capacity to inhibit the pro-inflammatory immune signalling cascades that are so strongly at the root of the auto-immune process. Furthermore, diminished cholesterol activity may be a primary factor in the development of certain autoimmune conditions.

LOW Cholesterol: The Risks, Dangers & The Reality
http://www.sott.net/article/243112-LOW-Cholesterol-The-Risks-Dangers-The-Reality

Iron toxicity & pathogenic infections
http://www.sott.net/article/261488-Iron-toxicity-pathogenic-infections

Cholesterol Is Your Body's Most Powerful Defense Against Toxins & Free Radicals
http://www.sott.net/article/236030-Cholesterol-Is-Your-Bodys-Most-Powerful-Defense-Against-Toxins-Free-Radicals

 

[nicklebleu]

The other thing is that cholesterol levels can fluctuate significantly between seasons, day to day and even over the course of the same day (see here). Some recommend to measure the levels three times consecutively over the course of a few days to get an idea about the "true" levels.

Although if you take the same sample and you give it to a number of labs, there might be very significant fluctuations of the results there too. I was involved in a quality assurance program of a lab that was involved in doing what is termed "near patient testing" which is a standardised serum checked with the most sensitive lab equipment available, then freeze-dryed and shipped out to participating labs. The labs then do the tests with their equipment and the results were compared against each other. I was always amazed about how wildly the results came out - some were normal, some too high, others too low. So I wouldn't take the numbers as gospel - they are just an indication.

Increasing fat bombs is certainly a good idea, but the literature suggests that dietary intake of cholesterol does very little to the levels you measure in your blood. Interestingly, even Ancel Keys of the infamous "Seven Countries Study" - the "inventor" of the lipid heart hypothesis - said that cholesterol intake doesn't account for high cholesterol levels.

To summarize, I wouldn't sweat over a single lab result - I think assessing how your body works overall is much more important - like your thyroid issue. Unfortunately I am not very versed with that to give you some meaningful insight.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yup, as nicklebleu said, it's been know for many decades that cholesterol in the diet has no connection to blood cholesterol - it can be the exact opposite of dietary intake: e.g. one eats just about no cholesterol in their diet but has very high blood cholesterol, another eats a lot of cholesterol and has normal or low blood cholesterol, etc. It's even published in mainstream publications for a long time.

 

[Konstantin]

Yup, as nicklebleu said, it's been know for many decades that cholesterol in the diet has no connection to blood cholesterol - it can be the exact opposite of dietary intake: e.g. one eats just about no cholesterol in their diet but has very high blood cholesterol, another eats a lot of cholesterol and has normal or low blood cholesterol, etc. It's even published in mainstream publications for a long time.

I`m live witness of the above. 10 years ago i weighted about 110 Kg and i was eating a lot of sugar, baked products and very little fats. My cholesterol and triglycerides were 7-8 times more then the average normal level. SInce i quit sugar and grains and increased fats a lot, my lipid status is normal no mater how much fat i eat.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Thank you everyone for your answers! I really appreciate them and no doubt they will help me to better understand the issues I'm facing.

Gandalf and Laura I've seen your answers on Friday evening, but it was too late to answer them and I was so tired.
Thank you for the book suggestion, I've just added it in my wish list on Amazon. By the way, I bought Coconut oil on yesterday, and I'm going fat bomb again later in the day after having picked-up my fresh eggs this morning. :)

Gaby, I have to read all the links you provided especially the Total Cholesterol and LDL levels decrease before rheumatoid arthritis because I do have arthritis issues without know if they are rheumatoid yet (I had another "crisis" on yesterday), and also of course the Autoimmune Conditions and LOW Cholesterol: Understanding Correlations which led me to get back to my doctor after have discovering this low level of cholesterol and wanting investigate deeper in this autoimmune condition related to.

Nicklebleu, it is very interesting to know about those so different lab tests results, thank you for sharing them. :)

SeekinTruth and Konstantin, that's what I said to my mother three days ago, that I had to have something else independant of my diet which makes this level of cholesterol lower than expected, and that's why I asked here to get some clues to where investigate to find some outlines.

I will make other lab tests at the beginning of September to see how levels are at this moment and as soon as my doctor will be back from his holidays. Which let me the time to investigate the links and pursue the read of the Autoimmune diceases thread.

Your answers confirm what I was already suspected. Thank you then for sharing them.

I'll be back later to give update on the situation.

Added: I should have specify what I wrote to SeekinTruth and Konstantin in my first post, because it is why I asked here; not so because of this low level of cholesterol with KD per se, but because I was suspicious about another condition. Sorry about that.

 

[Ellipse]

And don't dismiss the stress clue given by casper too fast. You was in a hight stressful situation not so long ago and now it's always underlying.

 

[MK Scarlett]

And don't dismiss the stress clue given by casper too fast. You was in a hight stressful situation not so long ago and now it's always underlying.

Yeah, I cannot dismiss it as it is more and more obvious, thank you for pointing this out to me again as I maybe do not take it enough as a most part of the issue. Maybe due to some fear of it and of its causes. I have to work on it. Thanks Ellipse.

 

[Ellipse]

Yeah, I cannot dismiss it as it is more and more obvious, thank you for pointing this out to me again as I maybe do not take it enough as a most part of the issue. Maybe due to some fear of it and of its causes. I have to work on it. Thanks Ellipse.

Perhaps this is simply because the body need more fuel to manage the stress, and you managed it. As often, a combination of factors can be at the root cause of a situation so continue your investigations.