Large maritime catastrophes

[thorbiorn]

Here is a list from _http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/wilhelmgustloff.aspx of some large maritime catastrophes. As the names of some of the ships did not come up in a search, I created a new topic.

Goya, DE, sank 1945 estimated loss ~ 6000 by Soviet U-boat torpedo _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Goya

Wilhem Gustloff, DE, 1945, loss 5348 (maybe 10000+) by Soviet U-boat torpedo _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff _http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/wilhelmgustloff.aspx

Cap Arcona DE, 1945, ~4500 by RAF bomb _http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p-2_Weber.html and _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Cap_Arcona_%281927%29

General Steuben, DE, 1945, ~3500 by Soviet U-boat torpedo _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_General_von_Steuben

Thielbek, DE, 1945, ~2800 RAF bomb _http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p-2_Weber.html and _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Thielbek_%281940%29

Woosung, China, 1948, ~2750
Dona Paz, Phillipines, 1987, ~2000
Titanic, UK, 1912, 1503
Lusitania, UK, 1915, 1198

On this Russian Wiki _ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%8F_%28%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%BE%29 there is a different list which also includes three Japanese ships, with a total of around 17000 men destroyed by US and UK weapons in WW2. The number of ships and victims varies in the two lists

Behind the sinking of each ship there is a story, even more than one. Having moved past the Titanic/(Lusitania) events, which has been covered in details, has time come to take a new look at some of the others?

Here is a list from _http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/wilhelmgustloff.aspx of some large maritime catastrophes, as the names of some of the ships did not come up in a search I created a new topic.

Goya, DE, sank 1945 estimated loss ~ 6000 by Soviet U-boat torpedo _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Goya

Wilhem Gustloff, DE, 1945, loss 5348 (maybe 10000+) by Soviet U-boat torpedo _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff _http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/wilhelmgustloff.aspx

Cap Arcona DE, 1945, ~4500 by RAF bomb _http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p-2_Weber.html and _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Cap_Arcona_%281927%29

General Steuben, DE, 1945, ~3500 by Soviet U-boat torpedo _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_General_von_Steuben

Thielbek, DE, 1945, ~2800 RAF bomb _http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n4p-2_Weber.html and _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Thielbek_%281940%29

Woosung, China, 1948, ~2750
Dona Paz, Phillipines, 1987, ~2000
Titanic, UK, 1912, 1503
Lusitania, UK, 1915, 1198

On this Russian Wiki _ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D0%B9%D1%8F_%28%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%BE%29 there is a different list which also includes three Japanese ships, with a total of around 17000 men destroyed by US and UK weapons in WW2. The number of ships and victims varies in the two lists

Behind the sinking of each ship there is a story, even more than one. Having moved past the Titanic/(Lusitania) events, which has been covered in details, has time come to take a new look at some of the others?

The reason for this thread was an acquantance whose friend as a small girl had escaped with her sister and mother the final days of the WW 2 German Eastern Front as a refugee and had been nearby when an alleged 10000 victims were lost as one ship was destroyed by Soviet forces. As you can see from the list, there may have been that many on Wilhem Gustloff.

 

[MusicMan]

There was the loss of the Spanish Armada, which would have been a major catastrophe for the Spanish, but a blessing for the British! This one was caused by a storm. Perhaps Sir Francis Drake anticipated the weather.
Another which springs to mind is the loss of the U.S. fleet in Pearl Harbour on 7Dec 1941. This was caused by the Japanese nation. The Americans learned a big lesson that day.

 

[Leonarda]

There was the loss of the Spanish Armada, which would have been a major catastrophe for the Spanish, but a blessing for the British! This one was caused by a storm. Perhaps Sir Francis Drake anticipated the weather.
Another which springs to mind is the loss of the U.S. fleet in Pearl Harbour on 7Dec 1941. This was caused by the Japanese nation. The Americans learned a big lesson that day.

Yes, they learnt how useful the war on terror is in making people doing whatever the PTB want. See:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,3440.msg21975.html#msg21975

It,s like Pearl Harbour. My history teacher in 6th grade told us that the Americans had attacked themselves, which seems to be the truth.

More precisely some of the US gouvernment members stimulated a non lethal Japanese against US forces.

At first, the problem was tricky :

...Mr. Henry L. Stimson, the Secretary for War, after a cabinet meeting on November 25, 1941, had noted in his diary: "The question was how we should manoeuvre them" (the Japanese) "into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves; it was a difficult proposition...

But if obliged to fight, Japan would choose to strike first :

...on January 27, 1941 the United States Ambassador in Tokyo had advised his government that "in the event of trouble breaking out between the United States and Japan, the Japanese intended to make a surprise attack against Pearl Harbour...

So a implict US war declaration was made :

the American note delivered to the Japanese Ambassadors on November 26, 1941, which effectually ended the possibility of further negotiations and thus made the Pacific war inevitable ...

The Pearl harbourd attack was eased

...
No hint of vital intercepts received, decoded and delivered to responsible officials in Washington on December 6 and 7, 1941, was sent to the Navy and Army Commanders in the Hawaiian area"....

While keeping it non lethal

...
cost two battleships and two destroyers (apart from many vessels put out of action), 177 aircraft and 4575 dead, wounded or missing....

The tricky problem was finally solved, the day after the attack, President Roosevelt officially entered WW II.