Leonardo da Vinci

[Kisito]

I dreamed of Leonardo da Vinci. He was before me. Someone spoke, I do not know if that person was me. Here the rhetoric of that person:

Leonardo has faults, he has doubts, he sometimes make the wrong choice, but it is certainly one of the best men that ever existed. This is related to his artistic genius. The artistic genius lies not only in the perfect reproduction of what you see, because if it's only breeding you do, you stay locked into beliefs. Leonardo da Vinci was close to release. Women or men who are released, or walking towards the path of liberation of the soul are those whose creativity is larger. Being a good student, a good student or be successful in his work, is often a sign of imprisonment of our soul [some manage to be efficient without being duped by the matrix]. For the soul manages to break free of 3D, it must extricate mesh matrix and conventions. If the soul obeys the socity, it will remain in the matrix. Creativity requires to deprogram beliefs. Without judgment, there is no belief. If there are no beliefs, our choice is not intellectual, our choice from the heart. For if the heart is not tainted, he recognizes the wheat from the chaff. Here is why Leonardo had discovered the mysteries, and he was close to release of 3D. End of dream.

I resentais in the explanation of creativity, it was not specifically due to artistry or engineering talent. But the ability to imagine another path, another form, another possibility. Imagination is the creative force. Creativity is the first force of humanity. Some entities have bullied us and made our defective neurological systems. The little creativity we still seems to be manipulated and used for purposes macchiavéliques by entities without créativité. Hopefully the various protocols and work done by some of the forum, will make our creativity, our freedom.

 

[ka]

Hi Kisito: It’s really a coincidence for me that you had this dream just now. It relates to a project I’ve been involved in the past several months.

I have become very interested in the writings of Josephin Peladan, who was an occultist active in Paris, France around 1900. His main idea was that the best way to enter into what the Cassiopaeans call 4th density and higher is to cultivate a deep appreciation of the arts—all of them. He had a direct influence on such musicians as Claude Debussy, Erik Satie, as well as writers such as Oscar Wilde and Henry James.
What set him on his path was the tour of Italy in which he was bowled over by the paintings of—Leonardo da Vinci! By meditating on what he saw in those paintings, he became aware of, and experienced things that your dream told you. Of course, he studied a lot of other things too, he was from a family of occultists. But Peladan wrote hundreds of books, and quite a lot of it directly about Leonardo.

He had his 15 minutes of fame in popular culture, was laughed off as a hopelessly idealistic, and was dismissed by the occult scene of the time because he was unwilling to involve himself in ritual magic. For him, it was all about becoming the best human being possible, by growing into knowledge of the divine. This was not just theoretical, for him.

He discusses astral and the next higher component of human nature, that he calls the spiritual, and directly related to intellect. I am reading observations and analyses in his work that I never expected ever to see in print. He relates these things to material contained in the book of Enoch, and to Egyptian theories of human existence in the afterlife—among other things; and he was well aware of the whole body of Hermetic tradition.

I am an English speaker with a *fair* comprehension of the French language, so it is slow going for me to read his work, and I have not gotten into what he wrote specifically about Leonardo. But your post tells me that I really MUST read it!

 

[Kisito]

Ka thank you for your information. I did not know this man. Following your answers, I looked at some articles Joséphin Peladan. From what I read briefly, it deserves to be better studied. He died at 60, in 1918. Gurdjieff, will come to Paris 6 years later, in 1924. Here is a summary of the character about Leonardo da Vinci:

"Joséphin Péladan has always been fascinated by Leonardo da Vinci, as we have mentioned, one of his first articles was dedicated to the Master: The Great Work of Leonardo or after the last lesson Leonardo da Vinci (Sansot, 1904).
In fact, his most important work of Leonardo da Vinci was certainly his choice of texts, thoughts, theories, teachings, stories and jokes of Leonardo da Vinci that had published the Mercure de France in 1907. He translated (for the first times), put in order and wrote a true Introduction.

Later he published his description of 14 manuscripts of Leonardo da Vinci of the Institute of France. A year later he published Alcan philosophy of Leonardo after his manuscripts. It is this text that is re-published here.
Finally, it will eventually translate the Treaty and the Treaty of painting landscape (both texts were taken from the Codex Vaticanus) (Urbinas) 1270. "
http://www.stalker-editeur.com/parus/peladanOuv.php

Another article that summarizes his esoteric life:

"Péladan JOSEPH said JOSÉPHIN
(1859-1918)
Supporter of esotericism and founder of a Catholic Rosicrucian Order, Joséphin Peladan, who gave himself the title of Sar inherited, he claimed, of a Babylonian king ancestor, a great of Fabre of Olivet like his contemporary Stanislas de Guaita, founder in 1889 of the Kabbalistic Order of the Rose-Croix. Peladan immediately entered in this order, along with Papus, but broke in with a bang in 1890 after creating a dissenting society, the Order of the Rosicrucians, the Temple and the Holy Grail, also known as the Rosicrucians Catholic. He sought, indeed, in what he thought was the Rosicrucian tradition, the foundation of a lost science and commanded Erik Satie a March of Rosicrucians ...

No more than in Peladan Guaita, this desire to reconnect with a hermetic tradition not accompanied serious and extensive work that would have been required to form a body of doctrine. Moreover, the two opposed orders quickly: we hurled anathemas, in a fight that the public called it War of the Roses; alongside the SAR, there were aesthetes such as Gary lacrose, Elemir Bourges, Saint-Pol Roux; alongside Guaita, pure Hermetists: Papus, Barlet, Paul Adam, Oswald Wirth. SAR wanted to restore Catholicism based on the esoteric content in this religion and even found the first on the second, or rather on the occult.

Unfortunately, his verbal eccentricities often did sink into ridicule; he had a taste of the excommunications, paradoxical provocations. It remains a very talented writer (The Supreme Vice, 1884 How one becomes a fairy, 1893. From Parsifal to Don Quixote, 1906, Pisa The Lovers, 1912 devout Avignon, 1922) and his merit in history of ideas was to have helped generate a strong interest in traditional sciences. He is also a good place in symbolist literature in France. Its "lyricism to Byzantine and perverse refinements, writes Alain Mercier, do not always lack some originality and sometimes reaches to the true poetry" (The esoteric and occult sources of symbolist poetry, 1870-1914, Paris, 1969). He, moreover, gave right of citizenship to two themes that the Symbolists resume by orchestrating various ways: the mage and that of the androgynous (The Androgynous, Paris, 1891). "
http://www.universalis.fr/encyclopedie/peladan-joseph-dit-josephin/

If you studied Pélandan for months, maybe you can do a better summary than me (copy / paste). Laura wrote on Leonardo da Vinci in "The Secret History," explaining the links between the constellation Cassiopeia and the picture of the "Last Supper (Cène)" of Léonardo Da Vinci. If you have other theories, they are welcome ... :)

 

[Zee Ley]

Hi Kisito.

Leonardo da Vinci is a great man indeed.
There is a book called "On the Technique of Acting" by Michael Chekhov. There are plenty of insightful moment regarding art and artists.
I've red it in Russian but as I know it is available in English as well.

From the book

In the evening after a long day, numerous impressions, trials, tasks and words you give yourself some rest. You switch off your room lights and sit down with your eyes closed. What kind of things are emerging out of the darkness in your inner sight? Faces of people you’ve met today: their voices, conversations, actions, gestures, their peculiar or funny features. Once again you walk down the streets, pass by familiar buildings, read shop signboards… you’re passively follow after the memories of the day that’s passed.

Insensibly you find yourself beyond the recent day. The pictures of close and distant past appear in your imagination. Your forgotten, half-forgotten daydreams, desires, goals, fortunes and misfortunes come in to your mind. To be fair they are not as precise as recollections of the recent day. They had been already “replaced by” (maybe “mixed with”) the memories of others who fancied them while you “have been keeping them forgotten”. You can still recognize these recollections though. And so among the visions of the Past and Present here and there you may spot an image which is totally unfamiliar to you. It disappears, than pops up again. This time with some more strangers. These images are interacting with each other creating the events and situations which are new. You are overwhelmed by weird and unusual experience. Stranger images draw you in to the events of their lives. From now on you are actively involved into their struggles, friendships, love, etc… Recollections left into the background. New images are much stronger. They induce you to either cry or laugh, resent or joy with a greater power than your memories. You are thrilled and amazed to observe these characters that came out of nowhere and live their independent lives in front of your inner sight. The array of colourful emotions is moving your soul. You’re becoming one of them, your fatigue ceased to exist, somnolence passes away. From now on you are in elated mood.

Actor and director as any other artist are well acquainted with such moments. "I am always surrounded by images", - says Max Reinhardt. “All morning, - Charles Dickens writes, - I am sitting in my office and waiting for Oliver Twist to come, but he doesn’t.” Goethe once said: “The images that inspire us, come on their own with a words: “Here we are!” Raphael saw an image that passed in front of him in his room. It was Sistine Madonna. Michelangelo once exclaimed in despair: “Images do follow me and urge to sculpture them out of the rock!”

If contemporary actor would want to express his doubts to adepts of the past regarding their faith into the self sufficient existence of creative images, they would reply to him: “You are wrong if you think that you can create exclusively out of yourself. Your materialistic time even convinced you that your creativity is the product of your brain activity. Do you really call it inspiration! Where is it guiding you to? Our inspiration led us beyond the limits of the world we perceive. It led us out of the box of personal. You are self centered. You copy emotions of your own and photocopy the facts of life you are surrounded by. We had been guided by our creative images into the areas that are new for us. By acting we explored!”

And the same text in a language of original

Вечер. После долгого дня, после множества впечатлений, переживаний, дел и слов вы даете отдых своим утомленным нервам. Вы садитесь, закрыв глаза или погасив в комнате свет. Что возникает из тьмы перед вашим внутренним взором? Лица людей, встреченных вами сегодня. Их голоса, их разговоры, поступки, движения, их характерные или смешные черты. Вы снова пробегаете улицы, минуете знакомые дома, читаете вывески… вы пассивно следите за пестрыми образами воспоминаний проведенного дня.
Но вот незаметно для вас самих вы выходите за пределы минувшего дня и в вашем воображении встают картины близкого или далекого прошлого. Ваши забытые, полузабытые желания, мечты, цели, удачи и неудачи встают перед вами. Правда, они не так точны, как образы воспоминаний сегодняшнего дня, они уже “подменены” кем-то, кто фантазировал над ними в то время, как вы “забыли” о них, но все же вы узнаете их. И вот среди всех видений прошлого и настоящего вы замечаете: то тут, то там проскальзывает образ совсем незнакомый вам. Он исчезает и снова появляется, приводя с собой других незнакомцев. Они вступают во взаимоотношения друг с другом, разыгрывают перед вами сцены, вы следите за новыми для вас событиями, вас захватывают странные, неожиданные настроения. Незнакомые образы вовлекают вас в события их жизни, и вы уже активно начитаете принимать участие в их борьбе, дружбе, любви, счастье и несчастье. Воспоминания отошли на задний план — новые образы сильнее воспоминаний. Они заставляют вас плакать или смеяться, негодовать или радоваться с большей силой, чем простые воспоминания. Вы с волнением следите за этими откуда-то пришедшими, самостоятельной жизнь живущими образами, и целая гамма чувств пробуждается в вашей душе. Вы сами становитесь одним из них, ваше утомление прошло, сон отлетел, вы в приподнятом творческом состоянии.
Актер и режиссер, как и всякий художник, знают такие минуты. “Меня всегда окружают образы, — говорит Макс Рейнгардт. “все утро, — писал Диккенс, — я сижу в своем кабинете, ожидая Оливера Твиста, но он все еще не приходит”. Гёте сказал: “Вдохновляющие нас образы сами являются перед нами, говоря: “Мы здесь!” Рафаэль видел образ, прошедший перед ним в его комнате, — это была Сикстинская мадонна. Микеланджело воскликнул в отчаянии: “Образы преследуют меня и понуждают ваять их формы из скал!”
Если бы современный актер захотел выразить старым мастерам свои сомнения по поводу их веры в самостоятельное существование творческих образов, они ответили бы ему: “Ты заблуждаешься, предполагая, что можешь творить исключительно из самого себя. Твой матерьялистический век привел тебя даже к мысли, что твое творчество есть продукт мозговой деятельности. Ее ты называешь вдохновением! Куда ведет оно тебя? Наше вдохновение вело нас за пределы чувственного мира. Оно выводило нас из узких рамок личного. Ты сосредоточен на самом себе. Ты копируешь свои собственные эмоции и с фотографической точностью изображаешь факты окружающей тебя жизни. Мы, следуя за нашими образами, проникли в сферы, для нас новые, нам дотоле неизвестные. Творя, мы познавали!”

 

[ka]

Hi, Kisito, I am really pleased that you, too, think Josephin Peladan deserves another look.

Right now I am reading his book Comment on devient Artiste, or How to become Ariste, written in 1895.
It is available online free, (in French) at:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101068994613;view=1up;seq=9

I will post some excerpts below that give a taste of his major themes. Some of what he says would seem to be a version of what Gurdjief and Mouravieff have said in different ways. Keep in mind that when Peladan writes “daimons,” he is talking about the kind of intelligences that inspired Socrates, the kind of intelligences that speak to us as Cassiopaeans—NOT the demons of hell!

Art has the same object as religion: to make God perceptible to mankind.
There are three degrees of esthetic, the same as those of asceticism: the sensation of God, the emotion of God, and the idea of God.

Aesthetics is the art of sensing God in things: and whoever experiences this sentiment I call Aristé, signifying “excellent, the best. “

p. 183
The magical version of Genesis has shown us that man was originally created by God through the hands of the Oelohim Ammonians, those artists of eternity. It has revealed to us that, for love of mankind, they abandoned their duty and abandoned heaven to come down below to instruct and direct the sons of their art. From the Book of Enoch we have seen the failure of bold ambitions of the Oelohites and the marvelous genius deployed by the new daimons.
What conduct will be the most efficient and will produce better fruits, if not that which draws mankind closer to its authors, its mediators the Bene Oelohim?
The spirits—those diseased, and the sorcerers—those madmen, have been confused by the formulas made from the Holy Book; but the mystery badly interpreted, becomes a ferment of devastation, and they invent the disease of mediumship, along with the insanity of goetia.
After the Flood, not a single Oelohite was left upon the earth; their damnation had begun. I do not presume to clarify or describe, but I do assert that they were violently rejected from this world, and that they cannot reintegrate themselves into the Light.
But their sons the daimons, mixed in amongst humanity, continue the work of their fathers; they are the divinity upon the earth. The religions, the poetry, the arts are their works: they are the geniuses, and all of their works, proceeding from the original will of their race, appear as the works of Prometheus, that is to say, as divine instruction.

I suspect that The Book of Enoch was written in symbolic language, for the same rasons that the Cassiopaeans spoke of aliens and nephilim before we were aware of psychopaths.

Instead of idiotic and dangerous practices that provoke hallucinations, one may receive the quickening Word from the Spirits through the works of their sons, the daimons.
All that mankind can conceive of subtility was realized by Leonardo; all that mankind can imagine of sublimity was written by Dante.
[…]

I believe with Pythagoras and Plato that genius is never a man but a daimon, that is to say, a being that intermediates between the levels of spirituality and material reality.
I set up here some assertions that I will demonstrate in the course of this work:

A. VII. All visions of heaven, religion or art come from the daimons and not from man. Only the sons of the higher world perceive them; only they can show them to men.
But just as Satan their father lost his glory in order to achieve his work upon mankind, just so the daimons must teach all that exalts the being and completes it.

A.VII. The ariste is the man susceptible to exaltation, to give birth to and to develop in himself the daimonic faculty , the divine faculty.

A.IX. The ariste will be, then, those beings who evolve, the men, living among the unevolved beings, the demons. The latter are the disciples of the former.

A.X. A characteristic of ariste is a quality of divine perception, an alchemical processing of all impressions and the theodicy of practical communal life.

P 97
A. XXXVIII. There exists a communion of intelligences that has outlived religions and races, and that will everywhere continue to survive.

 

[Kisito]

Thank you Ka and Zee Ley. The texts of Michael Chekhov and Joséphin Péladan are interesting, they suggest a higher source that give us knowledge. The definition of what we call "ourselves", seems to depend on the extent of our awareness. Otherwise, I quite agree with what is said. Myself I write a lot and I like to develop new theories. People think that this is due because of the great time I spend thinking. I tell people that this is not my thinking or my thoughts that give me ideas and theories, whether good or bad. As suggested Pélandan J. and M. Chekhov, these are external influences our mind to 3D consciousness. Also, I want to believe that these ideas are the fruit of our souls, or upper part of our essence. However, as we see, the ideas are not always true. Here is a hypothetical reason of the distortion of our messages.

As seems to say Leonardo da Vinci (in my dream), the channeled messages undergoing great distortions when they are channeled by an intellect which has beliefs and judgments. These beliefs and judgments are the influences of the past, by STS forces. If the mind is distorted, the heart is affected. And the heart, according to "Leonardo's my dream", is the seat of the soul, truth. According to ancient Greek, the seat of the soul was the thymus (endocrine gland, located near the heart).
Because brakes that come from the past, the messages of our "me-upper" (we in the future or in a space / time greater) are too heavy information for "our ego" of the present. Also, as with the too heavy computer files, information appears compressed, in the form of symbols. It then becomes difficult to decipher (decompress) the file, with our corrupt neurons.
So the irony of all this is that we must think to decode ideas into symbols. But the thought would indicate that we have brakes (beliefs of the past) . For pure limpid line seems to come without hindrance. Reflection or thought, would seem to affect the truth or sewage system.
Also to know the truth, do not start thinking, but begin to feel what is good or bad. For that feeling of feeling, our reflection (psyche), will become more clear. It is often said that we must think before acting, but if the reflection is determined by false beliefs and false judgments, it will not help us much in advance. It should therefore first, feel, and it will purify us of the beliefs and judgments. This will purify our thinking, and our thinking is our heart.

For this reason, it seems to me that people who are influenced by evil entities are those who have many beliefs and judgments. STS entities seem easier handling, people who have beliefs and judgments.
So, when the Cassiopaeans say, "knowledge protects" it would mean that our beliefs are illusions, which created the worlds, where the archons STS can handle us. With the absence of beliefs and knowledge, the STS can not act.

The true artist has no beliefs and would not let the STS influence!
Then we will say that many artists are attacked and are unfortunate, but I think it's hard to be an artist (creator) every day. For even Leonardo had doubts.

We must not forget that doubts are learning signs. These learnings are deconstruction of belief.
Thus, the journey of the artist seems to be strewn beliefs explosions. Thus, the artist (the creator) is often thought to be on a path of disappointment, because all his ways are deconstructed. But when the walls fall, the horizon is greater.

 

[ka]

Hi, Kisito and all:
I can now provide Peladan's account of what the paintings of Leonardo Da Vinci "told" him. This is a quote from pages 152-153 of Comment on devient Artiste:

Put [an uncultivated man] in front of the Mona Lisa, and he will see a nice-looking woman who appears to be enjoying good digestion. Before Saint John, he would see a boy with plump arms who is disguised as a minor saint, who grimaces. On the other hand, put him in front of the Village Festival of Rubens: the notion of meat, the notion of lust –it is on his level, and he gets it.

Put a poet in front of these same pictures, and he no longer sees organically. The forms do not affect him through the astral channel: he feels a curious attraction mixed with a bit of anguish before the smile of the Mona Lisa. He will dream a little, seeking to imagine what kind of life, what kind of loves are behind that smile.

Before the Saint John he will experience an almost painful disquiet, a triple hesitation over sex, the coloring, and the expression: the triple shadow of form, composition, and astrality–all plunge the viewer into a series of confused emotions, but only emotions.

Finally, present these same works to a metaphysician, and he will sense the spirit of Leonard: in the eye and the mouth of this woman, he finds the thought of an incomparable master: “I know all: I am serene and without desire: nevertheless my mission is to allocate desire, as my enigma arouses and develops all who look upon me: I am the gracious pentacle of Da Vinci, I manifest his soul, that will never be defined because it sees too high and too deep. I am one who does not love, because I am the one who thinks; the only woman in art that does not inspire a kiss. I have nothing to give to passion, but if intelligence approaches me, it will see itself reflected in the prism of my expression, as if in a multiplying mirror. I will help some of them become aware of themselves; and those who receive from me the kiss of the spirit may say that I love them, according to the will of Da Vinci who created me to show he had a concupiscence of the spirit. It is my expression that makes me beloved, that which denies love to anything but thought.

The Word of the Precursor [Saint John the Baptist], even more curious, is partially explained:

“My gesture incites and my smile defies, and I am John! Do not be surprised: my gesture speaks the truth to all, and my smile says to some: ‘I act for the masses, I smile for the few.’ As I am androgynous in form, I am double in thought, positive and imperious exoterically, passive and gentle for the masters.

“My raised finger points to heaven: I announce the necessity of salvation. The curve of my mouth reveals that salvation is not always painful. That which you see in my eyes, it is the voluptuousness of the spirits. I know that evil is transitory, as is pain; and that only the good, along with joy, are eternal. The unknowing translate my singular smirk as skepticism (that ignorance)—and I know. I am the wisest of the angels; my hand tells you to believe and my lips incite you to understanding. The one who allows himself to be seduced by my grace will one day possess this smile of Cherubs eternally ravished with the divine consciousness. Men need to believe, but I who am closer to God, I smile at such credulity, because I love, because I love indefectibly, and because this love unites me to Him. Heaven smiles, heaven rejoices, heaven is holy voluptuousness. I revealed salvation through beauty such as the conceptions of Leonardo da Vinci, that archangelic master of forms that will last eternally. I make the Annunciation of the Mystique of beauty, the Mystique of art.”

Here it is in the original French:

Placez un homme de Médan devant la Joconde, il verra une femme bien en chair, qui décèle de bonnes digestions. Devantle Saint Jean, il jugera que c'est un garçon au bras grassouillet qui s'est déguisé en petit saint et qui grimace. \u contraire menez-le devant Vfjldl de Rembrandt ou la Kermesse de Rubens. la nolion de boucherie, la notion de saoùlerie l'enivreront de leur réalité. C'est à
son niveau, et il se retrouve.

Affrontez un poète aux mêmes tableaux, il ne verra plus organiquement, la forme n'agit pas animalement sur lui : il sentira une attraction curieuse et un peu angoissée devant ce sourire de Monna Lisa, et il rêvera, cherchant à restituer de quelle vie, de quelles amours ce sourire est le total mystérieux. Devant le Saint Jean il éprouvera une inquiétude presque douloureuse, la triple hésitation du sexe, de la couleur et de l'expression ; la triple pénombre plastique, picturale et animique le plongera dans une série d'émois confus, mais tous de
sentiment.

Enfin, présentez aux mêmes oeuvres un métaphysicien, il sentira l'esprit de Léonard: dans l'oeil et la bouche de cette femme, il retrouvera la pensée du maître incomparable: (( Je sais tout : je suis sereine et sans désir ; cependant ma mission est de distribuer du désir, car mon énigme fomente et développe tous ceux qui me regardent : je suis le gra cicux pentacle du Vinci, je manifeste son âme, qui ne se fixa jamais parce qu'elle voyait trop haut et trop profond. Je suis celle qui n'aime pas, parce que je suis celle qui pense ;seule femme de l'art qui, quoique belle, n'attire pas le baiser : je n'ai rien à donner a la passion ; mais si l'intelligence m^approche, elle se mirera dans le prisme de mon expression comme dans un miroir multicore^et j'aiderai quelques-uns à prendre conscience d'eux-mêmes : et ceux-là qui recevront de moi le baiser de l'esprit pourront dire que je les aime selon la volonté du Vinci, qui me créa pour montrer qu'il y a une concupiscence de l'esprit, car c'est mon expression qui me fait aimer, elle qui nie aimer, sinon de la pensée. »

Le verbe du Précurseur, plus mystérieux encore, s'exprimerait ainsi partiellement :

“ Mon geste incite et mon sourire défie, et je suis Jean I Pnc t'étonne pas : mon geste dit la vérité à tous, et mon sourire la dit à qyelquesuns; j agis pour la masse, je souris pour le petit nombre ; comme je suis androgyne de formes, je suis double de pensée, positif et impérieux, exotériquement ; passif, et doux
pour les élus.

“Mon doigt élevé montre le ciel ; j'annonce la nécessité du salut ; le plissement de ma bouclie révèle que le salut n'est pas toujours la douleur. Ce que tu vois dans mes yeux, c'est la volupté des esprits, je sais que le mal est transitoire comme la douleur, et que le bien, comme la joie, seuls sont éternels. Les imbéciles traduiront ma moue singulière par le scepticisme, cette ignorance, et je sais : je suis le plus savant des anges ; ma main ordonne de croire et mes lèvres incitent à comprendre. Celui qui se laissera séduire par ma grâce possédera un jour ce sourire des Khérubs éternellement ravis de la connaissance divine. Les hommes ont besoin de craindre ; mais moi, plus près de Dieu, je souris de celte crainte, parce que j'aime, que j'aime indéfecliblement, et que cet amour m'unit à lui ; le ciel sourit, le ciel est gai, le ciel est la volupté sainte, je révèle le salut par la beauté, telque le conçut Léonard de Vinci, archange, maître des formes, au séjour éternel. Je suis l'Annonciateur de la Mystique de beauté, de la Mystique d'art. »

 

[Turgon]

Hello Kisito,

the channeled messages undergoing great distortions when they are channeled by an intellect which has beliefs and judgments. These beliefs and judgments are the influences of the past, by STS forces. If the mind is distorted, the heart is affected. And the heart, according to "Leonardo's my dream", is the seat of the soul, truth.

It's also important to remember that the heart or our emotions can also be distorted due to past trauma's and programming, and this can affect our intellect. But we need our intellect and networking in order to discern what's real and current and what's a projection from the past.

Reflection or thought, would seem to affect the truth or sewage system.
Also to know the truth, do not start thinking, but begin to feel what is good or bad. For that feeling of feeling, our reflection (psyche), will become more clear. It is often said that we must think before acting, but if the reflection is determined by false beliefs and false judgments, it will not help us much in advance. It should therefore first, feel, and it will purify us of the beliefs and judgments. This will purify our thinking, and our thinking is our heart.

As has been pointed out before, our emotions and feelings can be skewed fairly easily based on subconscious belief's that we may not even be aware of. So relying on them without the assistance of our intellect can lead us astray without us even knowing it. Human beings are often manipulated through their emotions and subconscious beliefs and will do things because it 'feels good', but you need your mind working and clear, and to network with others to determine what is and isn't true. Being objective about things, in some circumstances requires you to do things and act in a way that doesn't feel good, and seeing the truth can sometimes be a difficult and painful process.

 

[Cosmos]

[...]

As has been pointed out before, our emotions and feelings can be skewed fairly easily based on subconscious belief's that we may not even be aware of. So relying on them without the assistance of our intellect can lead us astray without us even knowing it. Human beings are often manipulated through their emotions and subconscious beliefs and will do things because it 'feels good', but you need your mind working and clear, and to network with others to determine what is and isn't true. Being objective about things, in some circumstances requires you to do things and act in a way that doesn't feel good, and seeing the truth can sometimes be a difficult and painful process.

Indeed. Most people nowadays, if not all, have their different centers (emotional/moving/intelectual), so totally mixed up and intercepting each other, that it is almost impossible in that state to really feel and experience the raw and pure actions of any one of those separately.

That means that we, as long as we are in that state, can hardly perceive the actual functions of those centers, since other centers constantly write over them. So as Turgon said, since we are all dealing with that situation to one extend or the other, it can be quite dangerous to only trust your emotions and can actually lead to rather unwanted consequences.

 

[Kisito]

[...]

As has been pointed out before, our emotions and feelings can be skewed fairly easily based on subconscious belief's that we may not even be aware of. So relying on them without the assistance of our intellect can lead us astray without us even knowing it. Human beings are often manipulated through their emotions and subconscious beliefs and will do things because it 'feels good', but you need your mind working and clear, and to network with others to determine what is and isn't true. Being objective about things, in some circumstances requires you to do things and act in a way that doesn't feel good, and seeing the truth can sometimes be a difficult and painful process.

Indeed. Most people nowadays, if not all, have their different centers (emotional/moving/intelectual), so totally mixed up and intercepting each other, that it is almost impossible in that state to really feel and experience the raw and pure actions of any one of those separately.

That means that we, as long as we are in that state, can hardly perceive the actual functions of those centers, since other centers constantly write over them. So as Turgon said, since we are all dealing with that situation to one extend or the other, it can be quite dangerous to only trust your emotions and can actually lead to rather unwanted consequences.

Thank you for your answers Pashalis and Turgon. When I spoke from the heart, I was not thinking of emotions, but the lack of emotion, the feeling or instinct. As you said, emotions always are distorted, and I have always agreed with that. I do think that we can not dispense with thinking. But the thought is also influenced by our emotions. It seems to me that thought would be more successful if it was based on instinct (heart) instead of beliefs (intellectual creation). "My idea," is that the heart (instinct) and "thought" to be one center, and that it, not be separated or broken. Because this separation between the heart and intelect seems to be created by our beliefs (the intellect) and emotions (the Ego). I hope I explained well. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like: "In the beginning was the idea" and that thought or reflection came corrupt the idea (logo, symbol). But it was a good debate, whether the mind (intellect) stems from the idea (instinct), or is the idea that arises from reflection?

 

[Turgon]

[...]

As has been pointed out before, our emotions and feelings can be skewed fairly easily based on subconscious belief's that we may not even be aware of. So relying on them without the assistance of our intellect can lead us astray without us even knowing it. Human beings are often manipulated through their emotions and subconscious beliefs and will do things because it 'feels good', but you need your mind working and clear, and to network with others to determine what is and isn't true. Being objective about things, in some circumstances requires you to do things and act in a way that doesn't feel good, and seeing the truth can sometimes be a difficult and painful process.

Indeed. Most people nowadays, if not all, have their different centers (emotional/moving/intelectual), so totally mixed up and intercepting each other, that it is almost impossible in that state to really feel and experience the raw and pure actions of any one of those separately.

That means that we, as long as we are in that state, can hardly perceive the actual functions of those centers, since other centers constantly write over them. So as Turgon said, since we are all dealing with that situation to one extend or the other, it can be quite dangerous to only trust your emotions and can actually lead to rather unwanted consequences.

Thank you for your answers Pashalis and Turgon. When I spoke from the heart, I was not thinking of emotions, but the lack of emotion, the feeling or instinct. As you said, emotions always are distorted, and I have always agreed with that. I do think that we can not dispense with thinking. But the thought is also influenced by our emotions.

If the emotional center or heart is closed off or out of reach of the intellect, i.e. we aren't in touch with our emotions and what we are feeling, then yes, only operating from our intellect can be quite dangerous, and I think it's what can lead to a lot of destructive thought processes and projection onto others what is being suppressed on an emotional level. Because emotions and feelings DO exist, they will influence our thoughts in different ways unless we can become more aware and conscious of what those feelings are and find a way to either release or integrate them into our lives.

"My idea," is that the heart (instinct) and "thought" to be one center, and that it, not be separated or broken. Because this separation between the heart and intelect seems to be created by our beliefs (the intellect) and emotions (the Ego).

I think in a healthy functioning human being, there is a lot of understanding and connection between the intellectual and emotional centers. It's basically a person who has self-awareness and an individuated sense of self, that is, can remember themselves and is cognizant of their thoughts and emotions without being subject to or controlled by them. Or put another way, not heavily vested in their beliefs or the feelings attached with them.