Losing desire or ability to communicate

[Eva]

I don't know how much sense this little write up would make. I'm writing because I need to speak and whenever I try to speak about this it doesn't work.

I called it synchronicity for too long yet it's beyond it lately. Things I read, things that just 'pop up' in my awareness field are so connected with old memories, dreams, moments that for absolutely no reason I remember pointing out to myself when they happened, saying 'do not forget this, it will be of use to remember'. Some of them are trivial moments, that if I tried to explain their significance to someone else, I would be making no sense at all. Yet now, it makes perfect sense, it's like waypoints in my life that correspond to what's happening -now-.

And what IS happening now? I'm trying to understand and it's slipping away, most of the time I have a feeling of 'knowing' what's going on and when I try to put it into words, either to talk to someone or simply to make a proper sentence in my mind it slips away.

I'm finding it harder and harder to communicate all this, in fact I'm finding it hard to communicate, period. I was never a friend of aimless chatter but lately it's becoming so intense that I must push myself to comply and reply when I'm spoken to just to make the other person feel okay, that I'm paying attention. And I AM paying attention, I'm seeing the talking and I'm seeing the beauty of the person (every person) but I just can't hop into the circle of talking so to say. And when I do, the subject always shifts to what is important , which is to wake up. And I feel I shouldn't be doing that, I feel terribly arrogant and stupid for thinking I know something that the other person doesn't seem to notice at that precise moment.

I keep feeling that I shouldn't speak much or act much because I may interfere with balance. I don't know exactly what I mean by balance.. balance of the other person? or a pre-woven understanding between people? I'm not sure, it's as if this feeling has no beginning or end it's just there, and it's as if it's always been there and I only realise it now to this extent.

In reality I'm faced with situations that are outworldly , literally.
And for some reason they don't feel as they should - as something outworldly that is important in itself. I try to see beyond the experience , see why it's there and what I'm supposed to do about it, if anything.
I'm trying to see what parts of the experience may have been real, what parts a game of my imagination and maybe even what parts could have been induced. And most of all, why.

There is a creeping feeling that I'm alone. Not lonely or sad, although that creeps in sometimes too. But alone in a wider sense. Nowhere to stand on and nothing to reach out to. I was never a person of firm beliefs, my motto was 'I do not know' and it's fun to learn. Yet, I am seeing now that even hints of beliefs , placeholders to lean on mentally and emotionally are being shattered.
It happens literally, if I turn on the computer and decide to read something that I know nurtures my well-being I will land on a website that takes it apart and proves why it's not a source to be trusted. (nothing to do with this forum or Laura's work in general, I'm speaking about other sources)
There's more I could say on this but again, I feel I'm disturbing the peace. I don't know how to touch gently on subjects that are unnerving or I feel they could be unnerving to other people, I don't know how to express what I am feeling and what I see manifesting in my life without interfering with others' peace of mind. Or is it my peace of mind I'm afraid of, when you speak of something you accept its reality. If that's so, then what an awfull lie to think I'm concerned about others when in fact I'm only concerned about myself.

Yet deep down , there's a knowing that everything's alright, everything is as it should be, it's ME that wasn't thinking right until now. I'm surprised at my own reactions and emotions. Situations that are unnerving find me in total silence and non-motion, watching and trying to understand. While the simplest things like chatting almost overwhelm me, trying to keep myself centered and almost seeing words like bullets, the more passionately they're spoken the worse it is, even if it's passion in happy excitement.

Now, that I'm trying to write this, I feel like an infant trying to type. And I feel like an infant in many other situations, as if I thought I had a way to react and now it's just not there anymore. It's alright as long as I follow it and not get sucked in by it - easier said than done. In a sense it's a liberating feeling , yet I'm trying to see its practical use.
Maybe the worse thing about it is that I feel all my knowledge from all the years of studying is useless. Either it wasn't the right knowledge or I didn't absorb it the right way but I can only see a huge gap where there should be a base. I should be able to say I -know- this or that, I trust myself in -knowing- how this or that works.. but I can't do that. Even for very specific systems eg. of the body , I know what's written in my books, I know what I had to write in an exam and pass it but if you ask me , I will say - please don't ask me cause I don't know, ask someone that knows better.

I see myself doing the same thing when browsing through the forum, and that disheartens me. Interesting threads, but whenever I have something to say I hesitate and move along thinking my input is only self-serving. I can't possibly offer anything but what is in me and what's in me right now is endless questions and wondering, which means, nothing of value to offer to the thread other than making my thoughts public in order for me to assess them better or even get helpful insight from other people.

And I wonder, is all this an understanding of where I really stand , is it progress in understanding myself or is it just masked fear of responsibility coming from negative ego?

I'm reading through what I've written and I have the same nagging thought pop up : It's all about me. What I feel, what I think.. selfish and useless to anyone else but me.

Is anyone else feeling this ? Living this ? And most importantly, does it make any sense at all ?

 

[anart]

Hi Eva,

I think it does make sense. I don't think it's a waste of time to write it. I do think that you're questioning all of your thoughts and thought processes - and there is strength in that. Until a person begins to truly question their own thoughts and thought processes, they cannot learn, not really, since they spend their lives relying on lies they take for truth. I also understand that this questioning can leave a bit of a void at times, where one once relied on a firm base, if even it was formed of lies. This feeling is transitory, to my understanding; it lessens with time.

I think what is really important is to simply continue to look for truth, to read, to research and to pay attention to the fruit of each school of thought or each theory - what is reality, what is the benefit, what is the evidence, where does it lead? Regarding other people, I don't think there is any need to worry about disturbing a balance. I say this because most people move in a dream and will fill in all sorts of details about you and your behavior in order to stay in that dream. Waking up - learning to walk in two worlds is difficult, but it is possible and the drive to do that often begins with the realization that all that one knows and has taken for 'real' and 'true' isn't. In other words - hang in there. :)

 

[luke wilson]

Hi Eva,

And what IS happening now? I'm trying to understand and it's slipping away, most of the time I have a feeling of 'knowing' what's going on and when I try to put it into words, either to talk to someone or simply to make a proper sentence in my mind it slips away.

I've heard this being described as, sometimes language, or what language has become today is inadequate at describing phenomena that might appear transcendental. I am sure you've heard the expression, 'words dont do it justice.' Maybe you feel like you know something but you cant put it into words and even when you try to think about it, it escapes you. It is like you are trying to clutch at air. As far as I am aware this is normal and shouldnt frighten you. Language isnt all it is cracked up to be and you have to remember the languages we use and the way we think was designed and it was designed for a purpose, but nonetheless, there is a part of you and everyone else that goes way beyond language and thoughts and it could be that you are just trying to grasp at that part with tools that cant.

I keep feeling that I shouldn't speak much or act much because I may interfere with balance. I don't know exactly what I mean by balance.. balance of the other person? or a pre-woven understanding between people? I'm not sure, it's as if this feeling has no beginning or end it's just there, and it's as if it's always been there and I only realise it now to this extent.

I think once caught in such a dynamic as described above, it's easy for one to freeze and get caught up in this moment maybe indefinately.

At the end of the day, you have to start from somewhere and that is what you have. What qualities, attributes etc that you have and then work from there. My mum used to tell me sometimes, when my room was sooooo untidy that I really didnt even want to tidy it because it seemed like a gigantic task that the easier thing to do would just be to leave in the mess, to pick something up, then pick the next thing up, keep doing so until the room is tidy. So you should start with an aim, for example, you obviously have your thoughts about things and advise or comments you'd like to make, start sharing with others on the forum. A comment here and there, some will lead you to discovering more about yourself.

Just keep on doing what you've been doing, it might be that you are just passing through a phase. Just dont stay frozen in this 'hypnotic' trance forever...

 

[HiThere]

I think you are making a lot of sense, and I recognize what you write about from my own daily life. Don't let the bleak thoughts take up too much headspace, and stay with the knowledge that you are on the right track! :)

 

[aragorn]

Hi Eva, I echo what anart wrote. I've noticed that when we start to wake up, interacting with people can feel quite difficult or even useless. I remember having a big urge to tell people this or that, point out their illusions, make them see the truth(or as I knew it). Soon I discovered that this was counterproductive and selfish. After that 'phase' I didn't feel engaging in any conversations - I felt alone, as you described. Then, gradually I started to see the big picture, everyone had their own lessons to learn, and interacting with 'normal' people was also a important skill for me to learn.

I don't know exactly where I 'go' at this moment, but I do know that what has helped is the 'sinking in' of the fact, as anart described, that other people are asleep and there's nothing(or very little) we can do about it if they are not asking. They want to stay asleep and that is their right. And another thing is, gradually one learns how to be observant and wise as a serpent, and at the same time externally considerate and gentle as a dove. I believe this is something Gurdjieff was talking about when he talked about self remembering; to be able to 'remember' one self and at the same time to be able to interact in the normal world. I'm not saying that I can apply this myself, but I'm working on it. :)

 

[no-mans-land]

I don't know how much sense this little write up would make. I'm writing because I need to speak and whenever I try to speak about this it doesn't work.

I called it synchronicity for too long yet it's beyond it lately. Things I read, things that just 'pop up' in my awareness field are so connected with old memories, dreams, moments that for absolutely no reason I remember pointing out to myself when they happened, saying 'do not forget this, it will be of use to remember'. Some of them are trivial moments, that if I tried to explain their significance to someone else, I would be making no sense at all. Yet now, it makes perfect sense, it's like waypoints in my life that correspond to what's happening -now-.

And what IS happening now? I'm trying to understand and it's slipping away, most of the time I have a feeling of 'knowing' what's going on and when I try to put it into words, either to talk to someone or simply to make a proper sentence in my mind it slips away.

Hi Eva

This make perfect sense. I experience the same thing and this is rather odd. These moments are something like when fragments of dreams, memories and the actual moment somehow melt together for a fraction of a second and within this moment, everything make sense where am I and what I do, but when this moment fade away and everything went back to "normal", I can't even think about it, because it's slipping away and the dreams, memories and actions seems to have no connection at all. It just make no sense and how to bridge this gap to communicate it when even myself can't make any sense out of it? It seems that those things aren't made to put them into words.

I don't think there is any need to worry about disturbing a balance. I say this because most people move in a dream and will fill in all sorts of details about you and your behavior in order to stay in that dream.

Thanks anart to point it out that way. Most of what Eva said also apply to me and that's a very good reminder to not to worry to much about what others may think about you.

 

[truth seeker]

Hi Eva,

Are you doing ee?

 

[Joe]

[quote author=Eva]

And what IS happening now? I'm trying to understand and it's slipping away, most of the time I have a feeling of 'knowing' what's going on and when I try to put it into words, either to talk to someone or simply to make a proper sentence in my mind it slips away.
[/quote]


Hi Eva, how is your diet? Are you trying to stay gluten and dairy free? Are you taking any supplements? I say this because some of what you describe can be caused by brains chemical imbalance. Check out this thread for some details

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17292.0

 

[Eva]

Thank you for your replies and the time you took to read all the mess of thoughts and feelings I posted, I appreciate it greatly.

Anart your reply is very reassuring and insightful.
I understand that realising that I cannot interfere with other people's balance is important. It's difficult to see that if I decide to speak with people in my environment, I get very emotional reactions for saying the slightest hint of a thought that could possibly clash with what they believe in. It happened twice lately and the reactions I got were so intense I felt very responsible for ruining their peace of mind. I see now though, this may very well be a 'role' as well. Both them, and myself , the whole playing out a drama of bursting indestructible bubbles.
As for looking for truth and reading, that's all I do lately. Have to use eye-droplets and remind myself to go to sleep.

Luke , that's a very intriguing point you make about language.
If I think about it this way it's obvious that the only reason I have for taking this inability to express properly into myself is arrogance. If language is truely an inadequate tool , then there is no point in turning this into an 'ability' issue. That only proves that a little "I" that needs to be or seem perfect is revolting.. that's a new insight right there.
And thank you for the example you provided , I can't help thinking that my head is so much like an untidy room right now, it's sad yet also funny in a very refreshing way!
And you are right about freezing in the moment there, partly why I made this post in the first place.

After that 'phase' I didn't feel engaging in any conversations - I felt alone, as you described. Then, gradually I started to see the big picture, everyone had their own lessons to learn, and interacting with 'normal' people was also a important skill for me to learn.

Exactly, I sense that I should be working on my interraction with all people instead of becoming a hermit, which undoubtedly feels like the easier approach. I need to find the way to be gentle without lying, but for the moment it seems impossible.

These moments are something like when fragments of dreams, memories and the actual moment somehow melt together for a fraction of a second and within this moment, everything make sense where am I and what I do, but when this moment fade away and everything went back to "normal", I can't even think about it, because it's slipping away and the dreams, memories and actions seems to have no connection at all.

That's precisely the feeling. And beyond that, it's like looking at my life and instead of an assortment of memories I see a map. There's waypoints and links between them. Some are dead ends and some are the turning points. Realising that the map's being drawn with my choices is a huge responsibility and that makes for a feeling that simply can't be described. You are probably right that those things aren't made to put them into words.

Are you doing ee?

I'm doing EE every day for about 3 weeks now. I experience strange reactions the past 4 days though which stops me from doing the full course without interval. I have to stop at 2nd stage breathing, for a while, regain my calm and then continue to 3rd stage , and the only way to do 3rd stage is to keep reminding myself with every breath that it is alright , just be in the moment. Being in the moment and not following the emotion that comes up is the only way around it that I found.

Hi Eva, how is your diet? Are you trying to stay gluten and dairy free? Are you taking any supplements? I say this because some of what you describe can be caused by brains chemical imbalance. Check out this thread for some details

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17292.0

I'm vegan , no dairy, eggs or meat of any kind.
No alcohol, medication or drugs, except tobacco.. which sadly is of the normal type, haven't managed to find organic tobacco in Athens yet.
I avoid wheat in a bulk ie. I don't eat bread but completely gluten free is my next goal.
I don't take supplements but I try to keep a balanced diet including different vegetables, fruit, nuts and grain.

You do make an exceptionally good point reminding me about it though, I have just read the article you suggested as well.
It's a vicious cycle when I forget eating properly because of some situation or another and then everything gets blown up precisely because of not eating properly.
Thank you for the reminder.

Again, thank you for all your replies. It's a wonderfully sustaining feeling to know that there are others that have felt the same way.

 

[Laura]

Eva, you might want to read this: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/218541-Burying-The-Vegetarian-Hypothesis

and also read about our recent experiences with vegetables in the December 12 session thread.

 

[CrimsonEagle]

Eva, you are not alone. I am in nearly the same predicament and I understand.

Even in this reply, I had originally wrote something completely different and much longer, but I decided that for the time being I should really keep anything I write to be as simple as possible.

I just wanted to let you know, you are not alone in what you are experiencing and it is not easy.

Dave.

 

[monksgirl]

and just today there is a new article up on Huffington Post, that I know many here on the forum will relate to, and it was beautifully written. And it speaks to how we perceive this life.
Eva, know that you are never alone, you have friends here - and all over the world- just a moment away.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lanza/biocentrism-theory-provides-glimpse-o_b_808144.html

 

[Aiming]

Eva, you might want to read this: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/218541-Burying-The-Vegetarian-Hypothesis

and also read about our recent experiences with vegetables in the December 12 session thread.

Hi Eva,

this thread might also be of interest.

 

[Eva]

Eva, you might want to read this: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/218541-Burying-The-Vegetarian-Hypothesis

and also read about our recent experiences with vegetables in the December 12 session thread.

Hi Laura,

I've just read the article , thank you for pointing it out.
There's a lot to say about vegeterianism but the article is very clear on farming as a spiritual practice and what is mentioned there covers my point of view entirely.
Until I can reach that ideal though I have no choice but either be part of the slaughtering industry or not. Going the 'less-harm' way is where I stand at the moment.

I read the 12 December transcript as well.
What I could find regarding diet here, since it was suggested along with the SOTT article on vegeterianism, was "Protect the liver."
That got me thinking about cholesterol - I 'knew' that the liver is able to produce enough of it even if you don't take any from your diet but bumped into a website discussing negative cholesterol intake. While not proven, it might have the same results as excessive intake. I tried to dig up actual info from my books but it's all about excessive cholesterol intake, nothing on the contrary (which would be the case for vegan diets).
I'll look into it further, and browse through the health and diet part of the forum as well. Thanks for the heads up.


CrimsonEagle
Thanks for replying. And yes, talk about writing and erasing..!


Monskgirl,
hi and thanks for your kind and optimistic approach, much appreciated.
Very interesting article as well.


Enaid,
interesting thread, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Alejo]

Wow ! This is very interesting,

just before I was wondering if there was something wrong with me, as I am in the exact same situation, and I've come to remember just now a part from ouspensky's ISOTM in which some of G's pupils were describing a similar situation and G's response was that they had begun to "die" as in they had started to see all the lies that they themselves were using in every interaction and stopping them.

This is to some extend what has happened to me, maybe to you as well Eva, sometimes I am standing in front of someone and as I listen and try to reply I stop my self from lying, and find my self without a lot to say, and then there's the feeling of being discordious for looking like I'm not paying attention, but I am and I know that ifi was to point out anything it would be taken defensively.

But know, that you're not alone in this, you are becoming more self aware and that leaves you naked so to speak without a lot of illusory tools to use, and just my own esperience, I've realized that the best thing to do in these situations is not try to find the most appropiate thing to say, but the truest.

From the C's : celebrate balance. Don't mourn the death of an illusion of an unbalance

Hang in there..:)