Love and Light

[noise]

I know this topic could fall under several titles in the Index but I thought this might be a good place.

I have a sister who lives up north in Canada (where rumor has it there is still a Democracy) and she is from the Love and Light crowd (not intending to make that sound like the ultimate evil). We talk sometimes about things esoteric, religious, political. On a recent visit down here we took off her and I and went down to the water front and on to a park/zoo here. We got on the subject of love and light. In most cases our conversations lead to a slight argument/disagreement about my views vs. hers.

We get along of course and our differences are not so great that it causes any major rifts between us, at least that I am aware of. It could be that she is semi-deceitful about her feelings, but I don't find it in her tone/mannerism. This trip she got in her light bubble (my lack of a better term) and said that the darkness aught to be walled off and I will let my light shine with the rest of the Love and Light Folks. My opinion which seemed to have offered a great shock for her was something to the nature of, "If you build a wall and hang out in the love and light who is going to shine some light on the darkness?" "You can wish things were better over there (Palestine, Iraq, Darfur..) but wishes don't act, there is no DOing in hanging out and wishing love and light will end the Chaos and reign of Psychopaths." And generally things like that.

This is a woman who has been through allot. I have great respect for her. She has worked through things that, when she tells me about them, scare the bajeezus out of me. Anyhow I'm curious if I should say anything at all. We have great conversations and she is pursuing reichi, aroma therapy and things of that nature so we do have alot of shared interests. This last visit, from our recent phone conversation, seems to have made something click with her. My question thus far is (outside of should I talk further about it) should I direct her toward the forum and signs page or just keep trying to help her to what small extent I am able?

It's kind of a weird feeling talking about her. On one hand there is great respect and love, as well as knowing she is/has been working hard in her quest to find trust and Love. On the other hand due to the fact that I love and respect her, I'm not sure some of my own programs wouldn't surface (not that that is a bad thing at all) if there was a case where I was stuck defending her cause I'm quite dupable and ignorant and I might not realize what is/was happening.

---------------------------------------------------------

So why did I post under conspiracy theory? Well the Love and light thing seems like a conspiracy like Majgic-k, new age, etc.. You get some people asking questions beyond what the main stream ready made religions accept or are capable of answering and they go off on a wild goose chase trying to catch their own tails (or a comet, a God, a serpent, Love and Light, Ultimate wishfulness, Virtual viewing..). I know cause I myself have done it, not to imply I got my head out of my butt just yet (and I may not for a long time).

It seems a conspiracy to trap those who are or near thinking out of the box. I know these things have been mentioned all over the forum. Maybe I'm not accepting something, or have yet fully ingrained (accepted) it into my wiring. I certainly have a tonne of wishful thinking. Basically I don't get why the control. I understand it somewhat in terms of parenting, but only to a certain extent, cause I can't MAKE my children not make mistakes ever, and I don't think if I could it would be at all helpful to them anyway. Maybe I'm stuck thinking in 3D and don't grasp the ugly monsters of 4d and their need to control? Something is missing in my Conspiracy theory puzzle and I'm not sure what it is. Am I forgetting I am just a piece of meat, like food for sharks, or just the shock of the realization as fact? Hmm.. I can only partially answer some of this but thinking further about the shocks I've gotten, they do come now and again, sometimes I'd rather they stayed well with me, instead of my egoism, forgetfulness, arrogance, ignorance, slumber.. helped them to go away.

 

[vinny]

I think you brought up a good question, noise. It is also a BIG lesson that is a common one to fall over on: the interfering (or not) in someone else's lesson plan. and how to determine if one IS interfering, or is simply contributing because it is asked for?

The C's summed it up well with something along the lines of "it is not STO to determine the needs of another".

But we're not STO of course! I think the individual situation has a lot to do with it. For example, when looking after a child, then you DO have to determine their needs, and that is totally appropriate, because in some way you have a kind of 'agreement' between you whereby you are each fulfilling a role - one as the carer and one as the 'cared for'. These role then gradually change as the child grows up.

In the case of 2 adults then it is slightly different, but again I think the individual situation has to be observed. The complication is that, in the modern age of ignorance (maybe it always was), there can be an overwhelming urge to share what one has learnt / discovered. I rememember when I first discovered the cass site and the Wave, and I simply HAD to talk to someone about it - I pretty soon discovered no one was interested, though! So, that is one thing that can cloud one's judgement.

If, on the other hand, it is a two-way conversation, between 'consenting' adults who are both looking / asking then that is different again - though one still has to be careful. Gurdjieff said that sincerity with everyone is a mistake: Part of the problem is that those closest to us (and this can mean in terms of nearly understanding, as well as 'close' in terms of family/friends) are the people who are MOST vulnerable to and therefore most likely to be used by the matrix as vectors against us. So, a certain amount of strategic enclosure is very necessary.

So, I don't really have an answer. There is good, there is bad, and then there is an objective understanding of the particular situation, that determines which is which - if only we could be objective!

edit: I thought it was a bit unfair to give NO answer at all! Perhaps in this case, noise, an appropriate thing to do might be to casually pass on a couple of website URLs that "might be interesting" ie cass and sott, and then leave it with no further comment. she has the opening - it is totally up to her if she does anything with it, if she is seeking, and the material resonates with her, then she will pursue it. If it doesn't, she won't, and you haven't overstepped the boundaries.

The difficult bit will be, if it happens, when she expresses NO interest, and then you will feel a pull to want her to be interested, and so want to push it further, and go into active 'promotion' mode, at that point I think you know it iwould be probably better to resist that urge.

 

[PopHistorian]

noise, if you haven't yet, maybe check out http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3886 and
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3977.

The love and light message comes from all these disinfo channels. Ra offers us a pretty reasonable explanation about why, and how it's part of the spread of 4D STS philosophy. Yes, it seems to be a "conspiracy" of unwitting sorts.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Basically I don't get why the control. I understand it somewhat in terms of parenting, but only to a certain extent, cause I can't MAKE my children not make mistakes ever, and I don't think if I could it would be at all helpful to them anyway. Maybe I'm stuck thinking in 3D and don't grasp the ugly monsters of 4d and their need to control? Something is missing in my Conspiracy theory puzzle and I'm not sure what it is.

Do you mean why STS wants to control? Or are you wondering if it is STS to keep your children from harm? For the former I'd say cuz it feels good, like why we eat or have sex or manipulate others or believe comfortable lies and have delusions of grandeur etc. For the latter I'd say it varies, but I guess it's both, probably depends on how old your children are whether you are thinking more about their welfare in terms of growing and learning and what they want or more about your own "welfare" in terms of being unable to "let them go" or unable to see them hurt. I guess the devil is in the details.

But with respect to your sister, I think wise as a serpent gentle as a dove approach is good. It might help not to get into arguments but lean towards discussions, not to activate her defense mechanisms and respect her free will (including whether she is open to discussing certain things, and doing so only when she wants to talk). Maybe bring things up or ask questions about her approach, and whether she ever thought of <fill in the blank> and what she thinks about <whatever>. Asking logical/pointed but gently posed questions might get *her* to think and to start questioning and/or being uncomfortable with her current beliefs, which would I think be ideal. So instead of like "This is how it is", you can say "I may be wrong, but my thought on this is..." or "My understanding here is..." or "What if...." etc so it doesn't sound like a belief or a conviction or an argument, but more a discussion where nobody has to feel "pressured" or defensive. Maybe even ask "You wanna know what my thoughts on this are? They could of course be wrong, so take them with a grain of salt of course..", or "I actually talked about this in a discussion forum, and many people say this...." etc. Maybe she'll get interested in the discussion forum herself if you bring it up "gently" and with total respect of her free will to choose to not care about the forum too, so don't bring it up as any kind of "authority" or something, you don't wanna create an aversion for the forum either lol. But I think gently prompting her to think about things is probably the best approach, like when she tells you her opinion, look for logic errors or assumptions, and maybe simply say "Can you explain to me how <whatever the illogical thing is> works and how do you know?" or maybe even talk about assumptions, ask her what she thinks about beliefs and assumptions, etc?

The C's recommended to Laura a while ago to blame things on them if she has to, cuz they can "take the heat" so to speak. Basically, if you want to bring up a sensitive subject that she has strong opinions on, instead of saying "I think" and possibly triggering a defensive confrontation with YOU, you can say "In a discussion forum I read.." or "On a website I read... <whatever>, and it does seem to make sense" or something, so she might be less inclined to get defensive towards you. Some suggestions :)

 

[noise]

Hi Vin,

Thanks for your input it helps me realize in a way that I cannot determine the needs of others who I'm in no way responsible for.

AdPop, that cleared up my question about L&L quite clearly. It seems getting away from our wishful thinking is something that one must go through the pains of struggling with learning and identifying individually. Edit: BTW those articles were exactly in the context of what I was asking about it terms of L&L. Thanks for sharing those links.

Thanks SAO I will certainly (attempt to) watch if/when this situation arises, if I am able to avoid projecting my beliefs. I can certainly learn proper speech. I appreciate all your observations on this. Thanks for taking the time out to decipher what I was saying on this you guys/gals. After rereading it, it was like, man O man I really have got to work on the punctuation something fierce. I feel like I can more often than not get my point across as of late but rereading my post, appears to me that I'm slipping a bit in my attempts to do so.