Meal Frequency

[realitybugll]

I'm trying to figure out what should be the frequency of eating meals... naturally I just think that our bodies are probably optimized for eating at a certain frequency. Sure there is probably a lot of adaptability here... or maybe it does not matter at all! but i think it does. I think fasts have some inherent benefit or truth to it...its part of spiritual / religious doctrines.

There is some studies that test out the effects of "intermittent fasting" and "calorie restriction". Intermittent fasting is for instance eating one meal for day. Calorie restriction by 30% in rats can lead to 40% longer lifespans. The findings are that both these things are beneficial to human health. It turns out that intermittent fasting and calorie restriction are related. In one article I read, for instance, it says that during Ramadan (which is a religious period where people fast from morning until night, and where usually only one large meal is eaten) people naturally just eat less calories. So when someone is forced to only eat one meal in the day, they usually just will not eat their normal amount, because it is hard to do in one sitting...

The problem with these studies is that the diet the people are on are not high meat diets. Most of these subjects probably have normal "bad" diets to begin with. Or with the animal studies they are not eating a wild diet. Also I have to question how much the results of the animal studies says about human diet / health. So it is hard to know if the same positive results of intermittent fasting and calorie restriction would apply to a human person who is eating what we consider to be a healthy diet. And so I have to question would intermittent fasting or calorie restriction be beneficial.

I found this article which I think is pretty good so I will post this one below... it was in a paleo newsletter.

the lack of scientific evidence to justify it (3). Studies examining the effects of meal frequency upon health and well being are inconclusive and have produced mixed results. For instance, some studies show that skipping breakfast is un- healthy (4) and may promote weight gain (5, 6). In contrast, other studies have shown daily en- ergy intake to be higher among women who ate breakfast compared to those who didn’t (7). Similarly, children who reported they never ate breakfast had lower daily caloric intakes than regular breakfast eaters (8). Further, children who skipped breakfast lost more weight over a one year period compared to daily breakfast eat- ers (8).
These kinds of controversies typify the chaos and disarray that run rampant in the science of hu- man nutrition. By placing the evolutionary tem- plate over the meal controversy hullabaloo, you can gain instant insight into the dietary patterns for which our species is genetically adapted. But before we get into the dietary patterns of hunter- gatherers, let’s see why the number of daily meals you eat can impact your health.
Caloric Restriction
If there is a single topic that remains relatively non-controversial among scientists, nutritionists and physicians, it is caloric restriction and lon- gevity/health. Numerous review papers from di- verse research groups around the world are unanimous in their conclusion: caloric restriction increases lifespan and improves health (9-14). Caloric restriction by as little as 30% of daily en- ergy can increase lifespan by up to 40% in short- lived mammals such as rodents. To date, caloric restriction is the only non-genetic intervention known to slow the rate of aging and increase life- span in a variety of animal species including mice, rats, hamsters, fish, insects, and worms (9,10). Studies of caloric restriction in longer lived primates such as the rhesus monkey were started in 1987. These on-going experiments, though not yet complete, parallel the results of rodent studies and are predictive of an increased lifespan (15).

Perhaps of even more importance than longevity are the beneficial health effects that occur with caloric restriction. Caloric restriction im- proves virtually all indices of cardiovascular health – not just in lab animals but also in hu- mans (16). In animal models caloric restriction delays or prevents all types of cancers, kidney disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases and delays the age related decline in wound healing while improving immune function (9, 12, 14). Virtually all mechanisms which protect the body’s cells from injury remain at youthful levels for longer during caloric restriction including an- tioxidants, DNA repair mechanisms, protein turnover, corticosteroids and heat shock pro- teins (14).
It is still not clear if caloric restriction can extend lifespan in humans, but some of the world’s longest lived (and healthiest) people, the Okina- wans, consume 20 % less energy than adults on the Japanese mainland (11). The average life- span for Okinawa men is 78 years and for women 86 years. Additionally, death rates for stroke, cancer and heart disease were only 59%, 69% and 59%, respectively, of those for the rest of Japan (11).
Intermittent Fasting
So let’s get back to the crux of the matter – can how many meals you eat influence your total caloric intake? During the fasting month of Ramadan Muslims abstain from food and drink from dawn until sunset. Numerous studies (17- 20) demonstrate that this dietary pattern causes a spontaneous reduction in the caloric intake and a slight weight loss. To date, no clinical studies have examined how a single large eve- ning meal influences weight over the long term – say 6 months or longer. The consumption of a single daily meal is a form of intermittent fasting which in animal models causes them to sponta- neously reduce their caloric intake by 30 % (3). Additionally, intermittent fasting reduces blood pressure, improves insulin sensitivity, improves kidney function, and increases resistance to disease and cancer (21).
Hunter-gatherer Patterns
We are currently in the process of compiling meal times and patterns in the worlds historic-ally studied hunter-gatherers. If any single pic- ture is beginning to emerge, it clearly is not three meals per day plus snacking ala the typical U.S. grazing pattern. Here are a few examples:
1. The Ingalik Hunter Gatherers of Interior Alaska: “As has been made clear, the principal meal and sometimes the only one of the day is eaten in the evening.” (22).
2. The Guayaki (Ache) Hunter Gatherers of Paraguay: “It seems, however, that the evening meal is the most consistent of the day. This is understandable, since the day is generally spent hunting for food that will be eaten in the eve- ning” (23).
3. The !Kung Hunter Gatherers of Bot- swana. “Members move out of camp each day individually or in small groups to work through the surrounding range and return in the evening to pool the collected resources for the evening meal” (24). 4. Hawaiians, Tahitians, Fijians and other Oceanic peoples (pre-westernization). “Typically, meals, as defined by Westerners, were con- sumed once or twice a day. . . Oliver (1989) de- scribed the main meal, usually freshly cooked, as generally eaten in the late afternoon after the day’s work was over.” (25).
The most consistent daily eating pattern that is beginning to emerge from the ethnographic litera- ture in hunter-gatherers is that of a large single meal which was consumed in the late afternoon or evening. A midday meal or lunch was rarely or never consumed and a small breakfast (consisting of the remainders of the previous eve- ning meal) was sometimes eaten. Some snack- ing may have occurred during daily gathering, however the bulk of the daily calories were taken in the late afternoon or evening. This pattern of eating could be described as intermittent fasting relative to the typical western pattern, particularly when daily gathering or hunting were unsuccess- ful or marginal. There is wisdom in the ways of our hunter gatherer ancestors, and perhaps it is time to re-think three squares a day.

3. Mattson MP. The need for controlled studies of the effects of meal frequency on health. Lancet 2005;365:1978-80.
4. Keski-Rahkonen A, Kaprio J, Rissanen A, Virkkunen M, Rose RJ. Breakfast skipping and health-compromising behaviors in adolescents and adults. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2003 Jul;57(7):842-53.
5. Schlundt DG, Hill JO, Sbrocco T, Pope-Cordle J, Sharp T. The role of breakfast in the treatment of obesity: a randomized clinical trial. Am J Clin Nutr. 1992 Mar;55(3):645-51.
6. Keim NL, Van Loan MD, Horn WF, Barbieri TF, Mayclin PL.Weight loss is greater with consump- tion of large morning meals and fat-free mass is preserved with large evening meals in women on a con- trolled weight reduction regimen. J Nutr. 1997 Jan;127(1):75-82.
7. Song WO, Chun OK, Obayashi S, Cho S, Chung CE. Is consumption of breakfast associated with body mass index in US adults? J Am Diet Assoc. 2005 Sep;105(9):1373-82.
8. Berkey CS, Rockett HR, Gillman MW, Field AE, Colditz GA. Longitudinal study of skipping breakfast and weight change in adolescents. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2003 Oct;27(10):1258-66.
9. Masoro EJ. Overview of caloric restriction and ageing. Mech Ageing Dev. 2005 Sep;126 (9):913-22.
10. Higami Y, Yamaza H, Shimokawa I. Laboratory findings of caloric restriction in rodents and pri- mates. Adv Clin Chem. 2005;39:211-37.
11. Heilbronn LK, Ravussin E. Calorie restriction and aging: review of the literature and implications for studies in humans. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3):361-9.
12. Spindler SR. Rapid and reversible induction of the longevity, anticancer and genomic effects of caloric restriction. Mech Ageing Dev. 2005 Sep;126(9):960-6.
13. Sinclair DA. Toward a unified theory of caloric restriction and longevity regulation. Mech Ageing Dev. 2005 Sep;126(9):987-1002.
14. Kirkwood TB, Shanley DP. Food restriction, evolution and ageing. Mech Ageing Dev. 2005 Sep;126(9):1011-6.
15. Mattison JA, Lane MA, Roth GS, Ingram DK. Calorie restriction in rhesus monkeys. Exp Geron- tol. 2003 Jan-Feb;38(1-2):35-46.
16. Fontana L, Meyer TE, Klein S, Holloszy JO. Long-term calorie restriction is highly effective in reducing the risk for atherosclerosis in humans. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Apr 27;101(17):6659- 63. Epub 2004 Apr 19.
17. Fedail SS, Murphy D, Salih SY, Bolton CH, Harvey RF. Changes in certain blood constituents during Ramadan. Am J Clin Nutr. 1982 Aug;36(2):350-3.
18. Husain R, Duncan MT, Cheah SH, Ch'ng SL. Effects of fasting in Ramadan on tropical Asiatic Moslems. Br J Nutr. 1987 Jul;58(1):41-8.
19. Sweileh N, Schnitzler A, Hunter GR, Davis B. Body composition and energy metabolism in rest- ing and exercising muslims during Ramadan fast. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 1992 Jun;32(2):156-63.
20. Bigard AX, Boussif M, Chalabi H, Guezennec CY. Alterations in muscular performance and or- thostatic tolerance during Ramadan. Aviat Space Environ Med. 1998 Apr;69(4):341-6.
21. Mattson MP, Wan R. Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the car- diovascular and cerebrovascular systems. J Nutr Biochem. 2005 Mar;16(3):129-37.
22. Osgood, C. Ingalik Social Culture. Yale University Press, New Haven, 1958, p 166.
23. Clastres, P. The Guayaki. In: Hunters and Gatherers Today, Bicchieri, M.G. (ed), Holt, Rinehart and Winston, Inc., New York, 1972, p.151.
24. Lee, RB. The !Kung Bushmen of Botswana. In: Hunters and Gatherers Today, Bicchieri, M.G. (ed), Holt, Rinehart and Winston, Inc., New York, 1972, p.151.
25. Lewis ND. The Pacific Islands. In: The Cambridge World History of Food, Volume Two, Kiple, KF. 9ed), Cambridge University Press, New York, 2000, p. 1358.

The consensus here which is supported by the historical evidence of hunter-gatherer societies, seems to be to eat one meal a day...

I'm curious if meal frequency is mentioned "the vegetarian myth" or "life without bread" that I have not read. Also if anyone has come to some conclusion on this subject.

 

[Mr.Anderson]

I have read some of these studies on caloric deficit and longevity. Personally I don't really care that much because everyone is different. I think you should find what works for you. I usually go to bed without much food in my stomach, I sleep better. I eat 4 or 5 times a day but only after being hungry for about an hour. (So I guess I experience caloric deficit) but I have a very high metabolism.

 

[LQB]

For me it varies depending on what I eat. One good meal of meat and fat often lasts 24 hrs.

 

[Nicholas]

Another thing to consider is the amount of energy the body uses for digestion is large. So frequent eating would require much more energy for digestion than two or three meals a day. So naturally one would require less calories for two meals a day than if you had five meals.

With the low carb, high fat and protein diet I haven't needed any snacks to keep me going. Just three meals a day with the largest being breakfast.

So seems to me this is a complex subject with many variables to keep track of. It cannot be just simply counting calories.

 

[mcb]

I suspect that questions about meal frequency and caloric restriction are to a considerable degree tied to agricultural/industrial life and the consumption of grains. If you aren't eating grains and other refined carbohydrates, you may find that your body stores energy when you eat and then delivers it as needed, the way you would expect it to. Our pre-agricultural ancestors presumably ate when they had food.

Personally, my meal frequency is determined by my work schedule and my appetite. Currently I eat once in the morning and again in early to mid-afternoon, when I feel hungry and the later the better. If for some reason I feel hungry in the early evening I will eat a small portion of something with few or no carbohydrates, usually meat. I do my best to distinguish between actual feelings of hunger and "food cravings." They are not hard to tell apart, but the latter can drive me to eat just as hunger can. They seem to be diminishing over time, the main cause being, I think, work-related stress.

There is no end of advice about how much to eat and how often. I don't give it much heed, although there can always be things to learn from objectively based arguments.

 

[Palinurus]

In my life I have observed that the meal frequency has varied over time.

I started out with three meals a day as it was customary in the household of my parents. Breakfast - dinner - supper.

When I left for university studies to go live on my own in another town it turned out to be convenient for me to eat two meals a day. That lasted several decades afterwards as well - just for the habit of it. Lunch and dinner. No breakfast, only coffee. Over time dinner was changed into supper every other day.

Currently I'm having just one real meal a day, usually around late afternoon. When I occasionally need more during day or night I snack around a little (crumbs from leftovers, some piece of fruit, some nuts or whatever comes handy). For breakfast I only have some tea, always a different flavor from the day before, with a little something on the side to eat just to get going again.

As for calorie intake - there has been a steady decline over the years alongside the diminishing frequency of meals. I found I didn't need so much food anymore with declining activities. Currently I only eat propper dinner in the weekends - weekdays are rather sober but with great variety of foods to keep eating an interesting activity and to stimulate appetite.

I just feel fine with it as it stands but would adjust again when need arises.

 

[Mr.Anderson]

Wow, I don't think I will ever ;D be able to do with just one meal. I eat high fat and protein, very little carbs and I can only make e or 4 hours before I get hungry. I'm not nearly as active as I used to be but still have a high metabolism.

I would have posted this sooner but had to eat something.

 

[realitybugll]

Thanks you for your replies. One reason I got interested in this is because I have carbohydrate cravings that I don't want to have.

I'm trying to eliminate rice cakes from my diet. The solution I think is more me to eat larger meals the real limiting problem is that I never have enough meat in the house or cooked to eat.

Normally this is my diet:

oatmeal in the morning... rice cakes / almonds / chocolate / other until the evening... then meat for dinner. In the late night more rice cakes...

I think the main cause of my snacking behavior is that I am not eating large enough breakfasts and dinners. The craving is really for carbohydrates too which is interesting... Like I will eat meat for dinner and then a few hours later not be hungry exactly for more meat... but still want to eat these rice-cakes.

What I want to try and do is just eat a larger breakfast, eat oatmeal and meat, then make the conscious decision not to eat anything (like a fast) until night, then eat a good amount of meat, and again consciously decide not to eat anything else.

The problem really is getting enough meat and cooking enough which takes preparation and time...

my theory is that if you are eating small meals you are more going to want carbohydrates (fruits and grains) but with one or two larger meals carbohydrates are easier to avoid because you are hungrier... there is more to this... but it makes sense?

Because I notice that I want meat the most when I am hungry, and with carbohydrates it doesn't matter so much I just want them regardless (unless I am actually full). Because carbohydrates are addicting...

Sorry I realize this post doesn't make that much sense.

Maybe many small frequent meals a day can work...but it just seems that the person is then in this 'food mode' where its like you are always hungry or wanting to eat. Just in terms of productivity... and for focus, one or two large meals seems better.

This is what I am going to try and do. It means buying more meat and less snacking foods.

Hi Mr.Anderson,

you said...

I have read some of these studies on caloric deficit and longevity. Personally I don't really care that much because everyone is different. I think you should find what works for you. I usually go to bed without much food in my stomach, I sleep better. I eat 4 or 5 times a day but only after being hungry for about an hour. (So I guess I experience caloric deficit) but I have a very high metabolism.

Are you saying that you are hungry multiple times a day? that seems annoying and distracting. Because hopefully it should be that you do not get hungry until it is time to eat. having to stay hungry and hour before eating sounds hard. but...it works for you?

 

[mcb]

...oatmeal in the morning... rice cakes / almonds / chocolate / other until the evening... then meat for dinner. In the late night more rice cakes...

That looks like quite a bit of grains and other carbs. I finally cut out oatmeal, even though it was certified "gluten free." It's a grain, and has issues with lectins and prolamins. It's not as bad as some of the others, but what seems to work best for me is "no grains." The main reason I was eating oatmeal was for the fiber, and I am doing much better without it now.

I had already eliminated all forms of rice after testing and finding it to be bad news but in any case it is a grain. Nuts are can be good, but they do contain anti-nutrients (soaking is said to help), and they are a source of carbs as well.

Have you read The Vegetarian Myth? I am still reeling a bit from it, but then I was a vegan for a while and I was still holding on to a lot that I had learned. (Who knew?)

 

[Nicholas]

Wetroof, have you read "Life Without Bread" yet and/or followed the discussion thread on that book? Once you rebalance your diet, your cravings for carbs will diminish.

 

[realitybugll]

Hi Nicolas and Megan,

I have read parts of the Life without bread and vegetarian myth threads. I'm aware I need to stop eating oatmeal but I just cannot do that at the moment.

Oatmeal is just very cheap, and the same goes for brown rice. I do not want to eat these things but I do in order to get enough food. What I have to focus on, is getting some more income. Anyways, the reminder cannot hurt.

 

[truth seeker]

Hi Nicolas and Megan,

I have read parts of the Life without bread and vegetarian myth threads. I'm aware I need to stop eating oatmeal but I just cannot do that at the moment.

Oatmeal is just very cheap, and the same goes for brown rice. I do not want to eat these things but I do in order to get enough food. What I have to focus on, is getting some more income. Anyways, the reminder cannot hurt.

Think of it this way, the money that goes towards the rice and oatmeal can be freed up for meat. In terms of meat - cheaper, fattier cuts work well. As long as you're ingesting gluten, the cycle of feeling hungry/addiction will continue - like a catch 22 situation.

 

[mcb]

Hi Nicolas and Megan,

I have read parts of the Life without bread and vegetarian myth threads. I'm aware I need to stop eating oatmeal but I just cannot do that at the moment.

Oatmeal is just very cheap, and the same goes for brown rice. I do not want to eat these things but I do in order to get enough food. What I have to focus on, is getting some more income. Anyways, the reminder cannot hurt.

Much of the world is caught in that trap -- that is what agriculture does. Understand that while oatmeal may contain lower levels of anti-nutrients than certain other common grains it still does have them. Unless you are eating certified gluten-free oatmeal, however, you are also eating wheat because oat fields usually contain a certain amount of wheat mixed in. When you eat "cheap food," here is what else you get for free:

...with agriculture comes the “diseases of civilization.” Understand that no one speaks of the “diseases of hunter-gatherers,” because they are largely disease-free. Not so the farmers, who have destroyed their bodies along with the planet. The list of diseases includes “[a]rthritis, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, stroke, depression, schizophrenia, and cancer,” as well as crooked teeth, bad eyesight, and a whole host of autoimmune and inflammatory conditions. These diseases are ubiquitous amongst the civilized and “are absolute rarities” for hunter-gatherers. Writes Dr. Loren Cordain, in his article “Cereal Grains: Humanity’s Double-Edged Sword”:

Cereal grains as a staple food are a relatively recent addition to the human diet and represent a dramatic departure from those foods to which we are genetically adapted. Discordance between humanity’s genetically determined dietary needs and his [sic] present day diet is responsible for many of the degenerative diseases which plague industrial man.... [T]here is a significant body of evidence which suggests that cereal grains are less than optimal foods for humans and that the human genetic makeup and physiology may not be fully adapted to high levels of cereal grain consumption.

The archaeological evidence is incontrovertible, as is the living testament of the last extant eighty-four tribes of hunter-gatherers. They are eating the diet that all humans evolved to eat: “meat, fowl, fish and leaves, roots and fruits of many plants.” We are eating foods that didn’t even exist until a few thousand years ago: domesticated annuals, especially grains, and even more their industrial endpoint of refined flours, sugars, and oils. As Cordain points out, “More than 70% of our dietary calories come from foods that our Paleolithic ancestors rarely, if ever, ate.” Our own bodies, with their degenerative diseases and overgrowth of cells, are all the evidence we need that this diet is unnatural.