Missed Opportunity

[luke wilson]

Today, whilst I was sat in the town square this guy came round over to me and gave me this leaflet about meditation and yoga. We had a bit of a chat and it was quite interesting. He was 31, white male, dressed in weird clothes, like what they wear in India(- looked also abit like what monks wear) and I asked him, why are you doing this? And he was like, because I want to find a deeper meaning to life and it is spiritualism. Then I asked what is this deeper meaning you want exactly? Then he proceeded to tell me alittle bit about what he thought about spiritualism and esoterism. Personally, I thought he was very brave, to be dressed the way he was, walking up to random strangers handing out this leaflets when most people to be frank just didnt care... After he went, I thought, should I have spoken to him maybe about the 4th way, ask him if he has ever heard of it, what does he think? Maybe even recommended him to the eirou eilus site to go have a look for himself and see what he thinks. I didnt do any of this though and I have been thinking to myself why? why did I not do this? This was my chance to give back and I blew it. Also, I felt I should have asked him more about his beliefs, his way of life, what he hoped to get out of it.. This would have provided an excellent opportunity to hear from someone else maybe something new, maybe gain some new insights but again, no I didnt...

I am just frustrated and I suppose I am venting. I looked at his leaflet and it's I think Indian philosophy or religion or something like that. He told me his name and omg, it was a weird name. I am guessing he had to surrender his real name. My 1st thoughts of this was, eventhough it is nice, the emphasis that we are not only bodies, we have a soul, there is more to life than just what we can see touch feel or smell, I thought maybe in his particular sect, they had like a hierarchical system because I saw an over emphasis on gurus and like really spiritually advanced teachers or something, there was no mention of aliens, but there was a mention of an illusion. Either way, interesting random meet. Felt I could have got more out of it but I let my inhibitions hold me back again which sucks.

 

[Buddy]

Fwiw, from an external consideration point of view, it seems like everything went just right. The guy is evidently on a personal mission. Although he answered your questions, did he seem to be asking for anything from you?

 

[luke wilson]

Fwiw, from an external consideration point of view, it seems like everything went just right. The guy is evidently on a personal mission. Although he answered your questions, did he seem to be asking for anything from you?

Uhmm, before he gave me the leaflet, he said that, to quote "We ask for any small donations to cover the costs of producing these leaflets." Then I said, "how much is small?". He then said it costed, 17p, so I said "Would it be ok if I gave you a pound" and he laughed and said that was fine. That was the only thing he asked from me. The rest of the time he just spent answering some questions I asked him about himself and about what he thought in general.

I have to say though, that is was very easy talking to him. He had a good vibe about him. He seemed so down to earth. Even when I was watching him talk to other people, he really seemed like a genuinely nice guy. I could go as far as saying I think he might have overcome a huge part of his self importance because he didnt seem overly concerned about himself or how he came across because to be honest, most of everyone else over there, just didnt care... I felt like asking him, why do you concern yourself with people that dont care?? Why put yourself through this? He didnt just hand out fliers, he was talking to people aswell about esoterism and stuff and I was like, OMG! Why???

 

[Buddy]

I felt like asking him, why do you concern yourself with people that dont care?? Why put yourself through this? He didnt just hand out fliers, he was talking to people aswell about esoterism and stuff and I was like, OMG! Why???

...And if he were to turn toward you and ask why you seem to be so concerned about what he is doing, what would you most likely say to him? (this might be a learning experience for you - a gift from the Universe, you might say) :)

 

[luke wilson]

Sorry for the double post.

I noticed something curious about myself whilst I was talking to him. Just before I gave him the pound. I completely zoned out and I totally dont remember giving it to him. Then as he was talking, he was telling me how there is something in us that doesnt change, or changes very very slowly and I zoned out for like 20 seconds and it was like I had my eyes open but I couldnt see, I couldnt hear, I was completely zoned out then I came round, and I thought to myself, ooook that was interesting, I missed nearly everything he just said. However, from that point onwards, I was completely rooted to the now with full awareness of what was going on.

I dont particularly like this aspect of myself. I think it might be, I am a bad listener. I cant help it but go into a trance state! What is that about?? How does someone stay rooted in the now?

 

[anart]

I dont particularly like this aspect of myself. I think it might be, I am a bad listener. I cant help it but go into a trance state! What is that about?? How does someone stay rooted in the now?

It takes effort and paying attention. Practice doing it for ten minutes first - just stay aware of where you are, who is around you, what is going on with everything for ten minutes. Then, the next time you are in a conversation with someone, force your attention onto that person - stay with it - force yourself to stay aware and present in the moment with that person. It is like training a muscle and it takes effort and time. It is possible. When I first started to train myself to pay attention I was literally exhausted at the end of the day because I had spent my life wandering around in my own head and not paying attention!

So, what does it take? Discipline, effort and struggle - but it's very possible and gets easier with practice - but first you have to practice.

 

[Buddy]

Yep, and here is something possibly useful to bookmark:

The practice of Self-Remembering

A simple exercise of self-remembering is becoming conscious of one's body, emotion and thought and then alternatingly look at objects, while holding all these present to one's attention. One notices that one very easily falls into identification, where attention is drawn to a single object from its divided state.

 

[Gonzo]

When Bud asked,
"Although he answered your questions, did he seem to be asking for anything from you?", perhaps he was referring to the concept of giving only when asked.

You seem hung up on the sense that you somehow failed in being a messenger of truth, but I didn't see any indication this person was interested or asking for anything from you but a donation.

Maybe you handled yourself well, curious to understand your fellow human by asking for information and only giving what was asked of you - money.

I don't know what you have experienced before, but in urban settings when one encounters a white guy in robes, the guy could very well be a member of one of the many mind control cults out there.

Perhaps you might have met a member of the Hare Krishna movement (cult, in the minds of many). The fact that you zoned out might be something for you to consider.

Having had lots of experience with Hare Krishnas, Moonies, Sri Chimnoy followers, etc., I noticed how the effect of their brainwashing can have an affect on me. These people are often told to give all of their worldly possession to the group (up the pyramid it goes) because owning possessions limits one's spiritual growth, draining their energy (actually, I believe there is a degree of truth in this), so they are dependent on the financial support of their organization to live.

They spend the entire day seeking donations and, to avoid panhandling charges and perhaps some karmic imbalances, they often offer something in exchange for donations, be they flowers or pamphlets, etc.

I occasionally used to eat at the Hare Krishna's when I lived on the street for a bit, until I discovered they were raiding garbage cans and dumpsters behind restaurants for dinner ingredients.

The chanting and singing raises the spirit enough that, when speakers start their pitch on donations, membership and why possessions should be handed over to them for the good of all, the mind is barely paying attention.

I never dared go to one of the free meditation groups as they were often run by the local Sri Chimnoy group and I feared what might occur while in a suggestive state or trance.

I wonder if somehow such ability to encourage zoning out has been refined enough so that a member of such groups can have a mind control affect on an open stranger.

Gonzo

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Uhmm, before he gave me the leaflet, he said that, to quote "We ask for any small donations to cover the costs of producing these leaflets." Then I said, "how much is small?". He then said it costed, 17p, so I said "Would it be ok if I gave you a pound" and he laughed and said that was fine. That was the only thing he asked from me. The rest of the time he just spent answering some questions I asked him about himself and about what he thought in general.

Well, you both may have had an interesting conversation if you'd brought up some 4th Way concepts, but he didn't ask YOU for information, he was GIVING you information. But information about what? Perhaps dis-information? Usually those who walk up to people on the street and hand out leaflets (with the exception of FOTCM of course! :D) have their own agenda, and may not be open to any other point of view.

FWIW.

 

[luke wilson]

...And if he were to turn toward you and ask why you seem to be so concerned about what he is doing, what would you most likely say to him?

Nice question. I would have said, that I thought he was fighting a losing battle and it isnt worth all the hassle of having people walk by you and ignore you like you dont exist. Basically, I dont think he would find what he was looking for out there on the street handing out fliers and he seemed like a genuinely good guy that I actually felt like I wanted him to find what it is he was after - this elusive thing whatever it is... I also thought, what it is in this BBM that can drive a man like him, who is genuinely cool, to wearing those clothes, in a town square at the age of 31 handing out fliers about meditation and yoga on a tuesday afternoon. What thing happened in his life, to make him that!

Reversing this question. For me, I would never go out there and do what he does but nonetheless, I am in this forum trying to find something aswell. I dont know what it is, I suppose, just trying to be at peace with oneself. What is it that happened in my life to make me this way! Well for me, I know what, it is no secret, my creator did not, I repeat, did not, give me enough of what I needed to be asleep. He gave me 0 talents or abilities and thus I spend my time searching for answers instead of being a happy compliant citizen of the system. If I had an ounce of ability and could well, adapt to the world, well, I'd like to think I'd be a searcher of objective truths but I am not to sure... I suppose that is the difference between me and that guy. To me, he seemed like he deserved to get something precious but for me, I think I am abit of a pretender because I am not sure, given the choice, I would choose this. I cannot sit here and pretend to be a saint or an angel in my intentions.

I think I am one of the most confused people I know and one thing I have learnt about confusion, it is best not to air it but every now and again, I say, what the heck! Lets stick it out there and see what comes back! Infact, I think it might just be like the only talent the "universe" gave to me. The talent of being generally confused and not knowing what is what! It is quite something.

I dont particularly like this aspect of myself. I think it might be, I am a bad listener. I cant help it but go into a trance state! What is that about?? How does someone stay rooted in the now?

It takes effort and paying attention. Practice doing it for ten minutes first - just stay aware of where you are, who is around you, what is going on with everything for ten minutes. Then, the next time you are in a conversation with someone, force your attention onto that person - stay with it - force yourself to stay aware and present in the moment with that person. It is like training a muscle and it takes effort and time. It is possible. When I first started to train myself to pay attention I was literally exhausted at the end of the day because I had spent my life wandering around in my own head and not paying attention!

So, what does it take? Discipline, effort and struggle - but it's very possible and gets easier with practice - but first you have to practice.

Thanks. I'll try. It is hard. I do try. I noticed this problem and I try but sometimes, it is like, you forget and then by the time you realise, you have missed a huge section of what was being talked about. When you say, wandering around in your head, well for me, it is just a blank. There is no wandering. Just a blank where time doesnt really seem to pass. Discipline, effort and struggle. I'll try harder.

 

[luke wilson]

Sorry for the double post and my previous post that, well I think came across as my predators mind whining. I just had to put it out there. Sorry if that was, externally inconsiderate!

I have searched up the leaflet he gave me and yes, I see this krsna name banded around alot on it so I think Gonzo you might be right.

This shows how dangerously naive I am.

He still came across as a nice guy. Anyways, I still wish him the best of luck. Maybe in a strange way, this people in this cults I think the guys on the ground level might be real genuine seekers but maybe the higher up you go, then you get characters who consciously know, what it is they are doing i.e. cleverly manipulating people for there own gain. It might be that genuine people get sucked in with the pretense that these offers a path to STO-land but infact it is just another cunning way to you know, non-being.

Anyways, thanks for bringing this up. It is hard to tell who is who. Who is genuine who is not. Who to trust who not to trust. It is literally a jungle out there and I might be coming across as a nice juicy deer waiting to be eaten up and sucked into an unforgiving pyramid of just sheer STS-ness. However, in my defense, I said I think his system might be hierarchical so I am not entirely blind and unable to discern.

 

[dannybananny]

I agree with what Bud said that he didn't ask you anything so that is in line with free will and his lesson. Way of the monk. He seems like a nice guy but is being used like that because all that gurus give partly answers to people questions or nothing in return and maybe only want money. I met similar guy once but he was christian and deep in it, i did tell him some of my views(how Church killed so much people, etc..., not going deep) and on some things we agreed but when he talked further I kept silent because there was no point in it, so maybe if you even told him that wouldn't change anything maybe and you would break his free will and lower your frequency.

I dont particularly like this aspect of myself. I think it might be, I am a bad listener. I cant help it but go into a trance state! What is that about?? How does someone stay rooted in the now?

I use one little practice when listening or speaking to others and it's to make you more present, pick one letter like s, or n, or whatever you want and when you are listening or talking become conscious about that letters and when you say words or listen to others when they say words. You can use it also when reading. And like Anart said it''s sometimes hard and sometimes it is boring so it's good to change little details once a while, different letters.

 

[luke wilson]

This is there website.

_http://www.purebhakti.com/ is this the krisna thing you meant Gonzo?? Is this a dis-info site??

 

[Buddy]

Discipline, effort and struggle. I'll try harder.

Fwiw, it might not be so difficult if you can generate genuine interest in what's going on around you. To do that, it will be easier if you are in "looking for something mode", and to encourage that mode it would be good to have a specific Aim so that no matter where you are and what you are doing, you 'remember yourself' (to the best of your ability) and understand the 'whys' underlying all you are doing and where you are coming from, OSIT.

Also, don't worry so much about confusion - being it or expressing it. Look at it as an hypothesis that describes a state that simply needs more input in order for you to regain clarity (understanding); such as what you're doing now by networking and from your personal reflections.

Maybe that will help you along the path.

 

[Gonzo]

Reminds me of one of the Krishna branches. In many of them, people are told they have some form of limitation and can only move forward with the aid of a "siksa-guru".

You can find some information about the Bhakti movement at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_movement) or Google the term.

As well, you might want to spend some time taking the initiative in informing yourself by doing some other Google searches.

For example, you could search:
"purebhakti" + "cult"
"Purebhakti"+"krishna"
(note: krishna gets spelled a few different ways, so you might want to pay attention to other spellings if you come across them and then use them in searches as well)
Srila Bhaktivedanta
Sri Ramanujacarya
Jagannath Cult
svarupa-jnana
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura
siksa-guru

Any of these searches will undoubtedly bring you loads of pages, some of which promote, some that discredit, and some that seem a little more neutral. This will help you build up some discernment, inform you of a world you never knew much of and maybe even offer you opportunities to push yourself a little harder, especially with some of the more dry and boring content.

Try to go a little easier on yourself, the universe and creation. After all of the comments you have received in the last while, I was a little surprised to see you say the creator gave you no talents. That's quite a judgment to levy on creation. Could it be that you are just blind to your talents and need to develop eyes to see? Sight can, after all, be both inward and outward.

Maybe you could look at how you pray (if you do, that is. And if you don't, maybe you should think about why you don't). When people learn to pray. They often start with asking for things they think they need, thereby telling the creator, universe, DCM, etc., what they think the creator should do. But as they grow in prayer, they learn to ask for that which brings them closer to creation, for lessons that will help them better understand themselves, the world around them and creation itself.
You are evolving and it takes a long time to undo that which took a lifetime to build. Behavioral patterns, for example, can take a long time to change once they have had a lifetime of reinforcement.

I think you would do well to look at both the expectations you have placed upon yourself as well as the expectations you place on creation.

Let me know if any of this is unclear. I'm just heading home from a long day at the office and my brain is a little fried right now, so I may not be as clear as I would like to be.

Gonzo