Motivation problem

[Marie]

Hi,

I'd like to ask the help of the group in undoing a "knot" in my thinking that's been giving me trouble.

Here goes: I've wanted to do martial arts ever since I was a kid, only I never had the combination of money, time and opportunity - until very recently. So I signed up for a karate course a local guy gives from autumn to spring.

As you might guess I was pretty happy about starting up. I went to the first course real motivated, ready to train every day and everything. The problem is that, as I soon found out, I'm in the kids' class. I mean six and seven-years old. Besides me there are only two girls over three feet in height, and they are still a lot younger than me - one of them I know because I baby-sit her sometimes. I know it seems silly like that but it kinda eats up my motivation.

Now I understand that the first and most obvious answer is: "Suck it up", and yes it would do part of the job, in that I have enough "mechanical will" to drag myself there and back, but see that's precisely the point: I don't want to drag myself there. I could really love this. My stupid reaction to this situation might turn something that means a lot to me and that I've wanted to do for a long time into something I hate. Plus I figure that just dragging myself there has to be a bad attitude.

I have tried to analyze this. My first idea was that it was probably self-importance or something such, and self-importance may be a part of it, but not the whole. I live with a bunch of kids and I spend lots of time with them, it's not the being with/around kids that bothers me so much; it's more like I'm discouraged because I'm fifteen years behind everybody else.

And okay, there might be something like retrospective envy - like that when I was that age I would have given a lot to be able to get a course like that, but things didn't turn out that way, and now I feel like I'm too old to ever get real good.

There is another group with people closer to my age, but that's the group of those who actually know something - most of them are blue belts, or orange at least. If I can stick with it and learn I'll eventually get transferred to that group, but it seems like that would take six months or a year, and really my problem is making it that far.

The irony's not lost on me that I wanted to do martial arts partly to improve my mental strength, and now I am lacking said strength to get seriously started at all.

So I suppose that what I should do is adjust my attitude/point of view, only precisely how to do that and what I should adjust it to are mysteries to me. Probably it has something to do with motivating oneself regardless of context, but still I'm not really sure of how I would do that. As is probably obvious I would welcome any comments, ideas, suggestions etc.

 

[mamadrama]

Marie,
I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're thinking/feeling here. Have you talked to the school about the possibility of alternating the two classes, attending the beginner class one day and the class with your peers the next?That way you can get some of the foundational moves in the one, and the experience of working and learning with your peers in the other? It seems like a reasonable request to me. I applaud you for working to reach your desired goal. Hang in there!
L.

 

[foofighter]

If you would have to stay in the kids group all the time there might be no point in sticking around. But if it is as you say that you only need to do it in order to get into the colored belt group, then stick around.

I started doing MA last January (Jissen Kobudo), with the same idea of getting mental training, and you *do* get that, BUT the main training comes from interacting with the others (so yes, fighting with kids is challenging for many reasons). I also realized that the only real enemy I have is myself.

It seems kinda odd that they don't have a beginner program though. I mean, how are people supposed to get in? By going with the kids group? In our class we range from yellow (me) to second Dan, and we're all practising together. It helps build external consideration as one always have to adapt to the level of whoever you're training with. So it might be a case of self importance on behalf of the others if they don't figure out a way to help you out, at least if it's a small group.

 

[moonwalker]

I don't think you lack mental strength at all, what you're saying makes perfect sense. I won't train with kids full stop, in fact at my classes under 16's are not allowed. You didn't say what style of karate you're learning and I'd like to know why you chose karate, as in my opinion the westernised version is no longer a martial art it is now a sport, so I don't think you'll find what your looking for i.e mental training. My advice would be to "shop around" and do some research on other martial arts, unless your heart is set on karate that is.

 

[Novelis]

I agree with Moonwalker, it's best to do some research on the subject, I learned Karate was one of the first martial arts to come to the west, and also one the most diluted and out of touch with why it was practiced in the first place. Most martial arts these days are only bits and pieces constructed by laymen or money grubbers who have no idea of the real significance of Gong Fu.
I learn Tai chi in a class with mostly older people once a week, and if the truth be told, many students go there because their bodies are crumbling apart and fear an early death. I never say this to them, but they really could just keep fit by running, dancing or aerobics or something like that everyday, many of the students go to this class once every week and expect to gain something else other than what you can gain from simple exercises like swimming. They don't understand or want to work on Qi awareness and internal power building, in which case, they are simply performing a Tai chi like exercise or a dance, and they'll never grasp the true benefits of Tai chi. This holds true for all martial arts, It's not meant to be mere exercise, Martial arts like Shaolin and Aikido were made to complement meditation and even enlightenment!
This is what is missing from most classes in the west, an ignorance of how deep these practices are. All martial arts have unique ways of combining external strength with internal power, and since many westerners are sceptical of Chinese physiology, as moonwalker states, Martial arts tend to be trained as a sport.
In its original form in China and Japan, there is a long tradition of martial arts masters only exposing the subtleties of the art to a close selection of trusted students, as martial arts became popularised, the secrets were kept by the masters and most of it is now lost, or very secret.
You might wonder why I keep going to these classes if the students and I are coming from totally different worlds, well, I am fortunate enough to have a teacher who recognises internal training. Though it may be that her knowledge is lost on many students, she is happy teaching me whatever I want to know.
It's not so much choosing the right class though IMO, you can find many books that can give you a good idea of how to train most effectively. Dr Yang Jwing Ming's book called "The root of Chinese Qi Gong" is an excellent place to start.
Once you've looked around and settled on what you think you want to do, practice, practice and PRACTICE.
Every martial art contains different methods of internal power building; it's up to you to find it through research with a bit of luck. For Karate, there are hardly any genuine masters in the west, and if there are, I bet the art is kept incredibly secret.

I go to my classes to learn the movements, and it doesn't effect me who I'm learning with, as long as the master knows their stuff. I know there are better classes where I could learn faster and more effectively, but right now the majority of my learning is through daily practice and research.
Every martial art was originally about building external AND internal power, many western schools focus on the external i.e. muscular strength, speed and reflex action while rejecting internal power training, therefore, many martial arts schools in the west are pretty useless, but then, what do you want to gain from martial arts? If you want to learn mental discipline, there are plenty of options besides martial arts.
It isn't about the will to get yourself to class, the real test of will is if you can integrate your practice into your daily life and practice whatever you learn everyday sincerely.

 

[Laura]

You'd think that there would be a beginning class for adults because certainly the way you teach a beginning child must be different from the way you would teach a beginning adult.

I'd get my money back and look for something else. It's not self-importance, it's simply practical to work with adults, even if they are beginners.

 

[Nienna]

Hi Marie,

I took Tae Kwon-Do for many years. The beginning adults had their own class. We started with white belt and went on from there. There was a separate kids class. Working with the adult mind and body are entirely different than working with a child's mind and body. My husband and I visited a lot of other martial arts schools to see the different styles. I never saw any beginning adults put in with the kid's classes unless the adult chose to take it because of schedule conficts and could not go to an adult beginner's class because of it, which is very rare. I would definitely discuss this issue with the teacher. I would feel the same way if I were in your shoes.

 

[Guest]

M,

If there are other classes avalable at another school, then take them. Like Novelis said, karate has really lost alot of it's true essence. BUT, the movements will increase your strength and flexability which helps with mental clairty and health. And it's sure better than sitting around sulking and whishing things would have worked out for you.

Story time for me:

I wanted to join gymnastics at 19. The coach laughed in my face when I turend up at his studio. "Your about 10 years too late." He told me. I wanted it, I wanted it for alot of different reasons that I won't go into. So I insisted and...he put me in his KIDS classes. Annoyed, frustrated, and out of place, I just kept going. 'the voice of logic' can sometimes just be a mask of outside forces trying to deter you. And sometimes will is the sheer force of wading through unpleasent processes to reach the goal. Thats it. Thats all. Theres little you can say or think to make it more pleasent. But if you DO it, even if it was a negative experience then you have learned how to tune your will towards your intentions.
4 months later, that coach gave me a JOB teaching.
6 years later, I got a job with Cirque du Soleil and started touring the world in a circus tent.

I'm a firm believer in physical exercises to develop both will and focus. I based my life on them. BUT...it was not easy to get the ball rolling...
SO...good luck!

 

[Marie]

Thanks a lot for the help.

The thing with adult beginner's classes is that this is a very local course, that covers two small villages - and in all of those two villages, I happen to be the only adult beginner this year, and this happens to be the only course given that close.

But... about an hour away from here there is a town - it's like the "bigger town", where people go to find a mall, department stores, specialized products etc. I'm thinking they must have many martial arts schools there. Now there's the transportation thing but maybe I can find some way - gotta keep my eyes open.

Now several people mentioned talking to the teacher - which I did for only a minute - basically I asked if there was some adult's course, and he said the age didn't matter since it was all the same moves anyway. But now I figure that'll be the first thing I do - go talk to him before or after class (next class is supposed to be in two days), and see precisely what the possibilities are. If we can't find a better arrangement I will take my money and go.

There is also this point:

I'd like to know why you chose karate, as in my opinion the westernised version is no longer a martial art it is now a sport, so I don't think you'll find what your looking for i.e mental training. My advice would be to "shop around" and do some research on other martial arts, unless your heart is set on karate that is.

I agree with Moonwalker, it's best to do some research on the subject, I learned Karate was one of the first martial arts to come to the west, and also one the most diluted and out of touch with why it was practiced in the first place.

Yeah, I read a few things underlining weaknesses of karate before - to be honest, I just went for the smaller effort, the course happened to be close by and easy to get transportation for.

It's becoming clearer to me that karate might not be the best choice, though it's the most convenient right now. I go to the town pretty often, I might even go tomorrow with my brother - I'll look and see what there is.

It's not so much choosing the right class though IMO, you can find many books that can give you a good idea of how to train most effectively. Dr Yang Jwing Ming's book called "The root of Chinese Qi Gong" is an excellent place to start.

That is real helpful to me, as I've learned a lot of useful things from books, only I hadn't thought of applying it to this kind of things. I am putting "The root of Chinese Qi Gong" second on my list of books to buy - right after ponerology.

I wanted to join gymnastics at 19. The coach laughed in my face when I turend up at his studio. "Your about 10 years too late." He told me. I wanted it, I wanted it for alot of different reasons that I won't go into. So I insisted and...he put me in his KIDS classes. Annoyed, frustrated, and out of place, I just kept going. 'the voice of logic' can sometimes just be a mask of outside forces trying to deter you. And sometimes will is the sheer force of wading through unpleasent processes to reach the goal. Thats it. Thats all. Theres little you can say or think to make it more pleasent. But if you DO it, even if it was a negative experience then you have learned how to tune your will towards your intentions.
4 months later, that coach gave me a JOB teaching.
6 years later, I got a job with Cirque du Soleil and started touring the world in a circus tent.

Reading that really encouraged me. Thanks for sharing. I might not do the "sticking with it through thick and thin" thing for the specific course I am in now, but I intend to stick with martial arts. And I was real happy to see that this age thing isn't really so definite (okay, maybe I wasn't very objective there to start with ). And by the way, congratulations!

Anyway, I'm not really sure of what I'm going to do, but I sure have a lot more ideas of possible options than I did before. Thanks everybody.

 

[Ryan]

Hi Marie,

I don't think it's good for an adult beginner to train with kids for the following reasons:

- Beginners aren't capable of controlling themselves in them same way as a more experienced student, thus it's more dangerous for the kids.
- An adult student can't practise many of the partner/group exercises effectively because of the size differences.
- Lesson plans for kids classes are often tailored *very* differently to account for the attention span and attitudes of kids.
- Kids classes are often larger, and the teacher's attention tends to be divided amongst the kids (as they are more unpredictable), thus the teacher might unconsciously ignore the adult. In an adult class, it is easier for the teacher to give a beginner more attention, facilitating the learning process.
- If the adult beginner is not used to having kids around, they can be a distraction in themselves.

Some of these things can be handled well by an experienced and/or talented instructor, but how well do most prospective students know their instructor when beginning training? Better to stick with the adult classes IMO, if possible. Sounds like it could be a bit tricky in your case.

Good luck, anyway!

 

[Mikey]

Hello Marie,

I know what you mean when you are speaking about "dragging oneself" to the course. I have been practicing traditional karate for about 3 years and my desire for comfort was ever the biggest hurdle to me. I try to train thrice a week after work is done. Regularly, I struggle with the desicion if I should go to the school or simply go to sleep. And there come lots of thoughts (seemingly cogent reasons) to my mind not to go! This struggle lasts often several hours before the course starts. But after observing my last 3 years with Karate, I know that is good for me. So I choose every day accordingly and drag my body again and again and again to the Dojo.

The philosophy of karate also teaches that your biggest enemy is yourself. It is by learning about the rather dark sides of your body and your mind that you can overcome the bonds of it.

This "dragging" is not only training-related. It occurs quite often. In work for example. All things I try to sail around.

For the very first Karate movements, also a children class is sufficient. But in the long run I would not like it either. The social and energetic dynamics of the Karate class is very important. I would not shy at the colours of the belts, because once everyone was a beginner. Everyone will understand you. By convention, all colors except black are pupils. And a wise master will teach in a way that a maximum learning experience is yielded for every grade and for each single person. You learn from yourself in interaction with the group, the group learns from the master.

As was said before, the quality of the school is very important. There are varieties of sports-focussed Karate schools which have only the appearance in common with true Karate.

To be a beginner is hard, no question. But if you consider the philosophy of Karate, every Karate student will always be a beginner. This is symbolized in the white-turning of the black master belt by wear after many years. The master completes the circle by becoming a beginner again. The master learns most from the beginner.

There is deep ZEN philosopy behind. Reading may help you understand what Karate is. Knowing what it is occurs only after 10-20-30 years I think.

There was a fellow student which began Karate at the age about 50. He tried hard and learned. Nothing more is required.

It is not important which martial art one chooses, the attitude in practcing it is important. The most efficient martial art is the one of which you have command. Karate is a way; in this sense, it has no end.

 

[Marie]

Thank you very much Ryan and Data for your thoughts. I'm real grateful there is such a network - when I first posted I was kinda confused on the whole thing.

As an update, I went to the course today and I did talk to the teacher. I was pretty much ready to ask for a refund, but then the guy was real flexible - turns out he gave me the option of just "jumping" to the adult group right now, provided I do parts of the course with the beginners to get the new moves. I'll never have to fight with kids - good thing too, because the idea of that really bothered me.

Also I looked in Campbellton ("bigger town"), and turns out there's just one thing - tae kwon do. Seen the transportation difficulties and the fact I get transferred to an adult's class, I've decided to stick with karate for a while. But I will read up on this and practice, and we'll see where it'll lead.