My budgie bird is vomiting and being unusually sleepy

Drazen

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Hi all,

I have a budgie bird (female), she is usually very active, chirping throughout the day, but today she suddenly started vomiting seeds, and later being silent and looking weak, and sleeps (or tries to) the whole time. Last weekend we got a new budgie (a male one) so that she can have a companion. Two days ago we joined them in one birdcage (they were separate for a few days, but near each other) and they are getting along so far, eating together and kissing now and there, but she doesn't feel well now. I've been reading on some forums and other websites about what the reason for this could be, and they say that it could be some virus, parasite, overeating, iodine deficiency, too low room temperature...

The problem is that there's no an avian vet here in our area. So my wife put some sliced garlic in water (have read about it that it can help), leaved it for awhile and filtered it through gauze, and put that water in budgie's water drinker. She still hasn't drank from it. I thought that maybe I could put a tiny amount (few drops?) of heavily diluted iodine in her water (don't know if that's a good idea), but if she's not going to drink it, being lethargic to some extent and sleepy, I don't know what we can do more for her. If anyone knows more, or have experience with those kind of bird problems and have a solution for it, I would appreciate your advice. It could be nothing serious in the end, but there's a chance that she could die as I read elsewhere.
 
Hi drazen, sorry to hear your budgie is feeling unwell, it must be stressful for you worrying about her :(

...A lot of the things on the net say to take them to a vet straight away! are you sure you can't contact one, even just for information?... I understand it's hard with aviary veterinarians (God forbid my parakeet has to go!) - if she's throwing up seeds, why don't you feed her just veg/ fruit?
I only provide seeds "on the side" for Lui, he eats mostly veg and fruit.

I'm not too sure on giving her iodine, I'm not too experienced on that and I would be very caucious with what you would be giving to her.

I hope you find a solution, and she starts to feel better. :hug2:
 
I was just thinking too, it could have a lot to do with her new companion - I wonder if she's trying to regurgitate too much to show her affection for him? I'm not sure, just a thought. Maybe they're physical symptoms of getting used to the new companion.. hmm
 
Lilyalic said:
I was just thinking too, it could have a lot to do with her new companion - I wonder if she's trying to regurgitate too much to show her affection for him? I'm not sure, just a thought. Maybe they're physical symptoms of getting used to the new companion.. hmm

I am sorry, but unfortunately I don't have any experience with birds, and no useful info to tell you, Drazen. But if your birdy is ok otherwise, Lilyalic's idea sounds possible, because according to a manual I've got, birds can regurgitate if they are excited or stressed. But there is a difference between regurgitation and vomiting. And vomiting can happen also due to foreign bodies and many other things. Here's a screenshot of the first page of the manual just to give you an idea about possible causes, and the list is much longer. Basically you really do need to take your birdy to the vet, but if you can't at least palpate her esophagus to see if there isn't any seed stuck there. And good luck!
 

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Lilyalic said:
Hi drazen, sorry to hear your budgie is feeling unwell, it must be stressful for you worrying about her :(

...A lot of the things on the net say to take them to a vet straight away! are you sure you can't contact one, even just for information?... I understand it's hard with aviary veterinarians (God forbid my parakeet has to go!) - if she's throwing up seeds, why don't you feed her just veg/ fruit?
I only provide seeds "on the side" for Lui, he eats mostly veg and fruit.

I'm not too sure on giving her iodine, I'm not too experienced on that and I would be very caucious with what you would be giving to her.

I hope you find a solution, and she starts to feel better. :hug2:

I've searched more on the net and found phone numbers of the two vets in a nearby city. I called the first one and explained him the situation with the budgie, well, almost explained it to him, he hanged up me in the middle of it. I called him again and he said that he doesn't have time now for this (in a rude way), and that I call again tomorrow. I've found on the forums about this vet that he is behaving badly towards everyone, including animals, so I would rather not call him again tomorrow. But, the other vet that I called was ok, he listened to me and said that I should monitor her behavior and if she continues with vomiting this evening and in the morning, and that he will call me tomorrow in the morning to check if things got better or are same or worse.

She vomited again a few minutes ago, after eating. And immediately after that she ate again a bit. It's like her stomach can't digest food or something. We give her usually some apple bits, carrot, because it seems that she doesn't like other fruits or veggies with which we tried previously. Besides that, she usually eats some millet bird seed and other mix of seeds with vitamins and minerals. This is the first time she behaves like this in a more than a year she's with us.

Lilyalic said:
I was just thinking too, it could have a lot to do with her new companion - I wonder if she's trying to regurgitate too much to show her affection for him? I'm not sure, just a thought. Maybe they're physical symptoms of getting used to the new companion.. hmm

Maybe it has something with her new companion, we'll see what the vet says tomorrow.

Thanks Lilyalic. :)

Keit said:
Lilyalic said:
I was just thinking too, it could have a lot to do with her new companion - I wonder if she's trying to regurgitate too much to show her affection for him? I'm not sure, just a thought. Maybe they're physical symptoms of getting used to the new companion.. hmm

I am sorry, but unfortunately I don't have any experience with birds, and no useful info to tell you, Drazen. But if your birdy is ok otherwise, Lilyalic's idea sounds possible, because according to a manual I've got, birds can regurgitate if they are excited or stressed. But there is a difference between regurgitation and vomiting. And vomiting can happen also due to foreign bodies and many other things. Here's a screenshot of the first page of the manual just to give you an idea about possible causes, and the list is much longer. Basically you really do need to take your birdy to the vet, but if you can't at least palpate her esophagus to see if there isn't any seed stuck there. And good luck!

Thanks Keit, it could be that it's all about her being under much stress lately since he arrived. She hasn't had a bird friend of her own kind for more than a year (of which I know, don't know actually what was happening with her before that), so this could be stressful for her in a way.
 
drazen, did you think about using google???

http://pets.thenest.com/budgie-parakeets-regurgitate-12470.html

http://pets.thenest.com/mean-parakeet-throwing-up-seeds-11503.html

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2418
 
Laura said:
drazen, did you think about using google???

http://pets.thenest.com/budgie-parakeets-regurgitate-12470.html

http://pets.thenest.com/mean-parakeet-throwing-up-seeds-11503.html

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2418

Also, I doubt that the bird will drink water with garlic in it.

Try giving some greens.

Also, a tiny fraction of lugol's solution in the water might be helpful. And I do mean TINY.
 
Laura said:
Laura said:
drazen, did you think about using google???

http://pets.thenest.com/budgie-parakeets-regurgitate-12470.html

http://pets.thenest.com/mean-parakeet-throwing-up-seeds-11503.html

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2418

Also, I doubt that the bird will drink water with garlic in it.

Try giving some greens.

Also, a tiny fraction of lugol's solution in the water might be helpful. And I do mean TINY.

I've searched for some info about it before posting and concluded that it was vomiting, not regurgitation, but it was curious to me that she started with it soon after other budgie came, and it's hard to find a vet that knows what he's doing when it comes to birds, there are some vets here, but who never treated a bird pet, generally most of them are more knowledgeable in treating other pets. I tried to see if anyone here had experience in a case like this and some advice that comes from personal experience, but it was probably needless to ask about it as the issue about vomiting is generally well described on the net, and after more search I've found a vet who seems to know more about this.

I will try with some really small amount of already previously in water diluted drop of lugol's, to just sip a bit of it into the water in a bird drinker. Will try with some greens, she didn't want a leaf of lettuce before, something else of the greens could suit her better though.

Thanks for advice.
 
Hello Drazen, sorry to hear about your sick bird. The following info about a bird disease called Trichomoniasis may be of help. The symptoms you have described sound suspiciously like it.

Trichomoniasis

Trichomoniasis has been reported in many orders of birds, including Columbiformes, Galliformes, Falconiformes, Psittaciformes, and Passeriformes. Trichomonas gallinae (called frounce in birds of prey and canker in Columbiformes) is occasionally seen in pet birds, notably budgerigars. Clinical signs may include anorexia, dysphagia, weight loss, and dyspnea. Whitish yellow, caseous lesions adherent to the mucosa of the oropharynx, crop, and esophagus may be seen in raptors and Columbiformes. Budgerigars generally do not have grossly visible oral lesions but do have increased salivation and regurgitation. Transmission is by direct (parents feeding young) or indirect (ingestion of contaminated food and water) contact; raptors may become infected by ingesting infected pigeons or doves.

Microscopic examination of a warm saline mount of material from the oral cavity may reveal the flagellated organism. Treatment protocols include carnidazole (20 mg/kg, PO, once), ronidazole (6–10 mg/kg/day, PO, for 14 days), or metronidazole (50 mg/kg/day, PO, for 5 days).

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/exotic_and_laboratory_animals/pet_birds/parasitic_diseases_of_pet_birds.html


Trichomoniasis in Budgerigars

By Sally O’Dwyer In my experience with Budgerigars (Parakeets), I have occasionally had to go toe-to-toe
with the nasty disease Trichomoniasis. Actually, Trichomoniasis is the most common protozoal disease in all of
aviculture.
The bad news is that this disease is somewhat species specific, and it is a significant problem in
Budgerigars. The good news is that it is easily treated.
Avian Trichomoniasis is caused by a microscopic parasite,
Trichomonas gallinae, a single-celled protozoan. This parasite has a whip-like tail and fin on its back, which allows it
swim in a circular motion. Upon entering the Budgie through the mouth, the parasite buries itself into the lining of the
esophagus-- anywhere from the back of the tongue down through the crop almost to the gizzard. Yellowish lesions
(ulcers or cankers) appear where the parasite has buried itself in the esophageal lining. The Trichomonads multiply
rapidly by simple division and as a result, the lesions grow in size and number. As the disease progresses, the lesions
develop into large, firm masses that can cause nasty blockages. If left untreated, the disease can be fatal.
Trichomoniasis is also known as “Canker”, “Frounce” or “Diptheria”. This
disease is not just a problem among Budgerigars, but also in pigeons, doves, quail, falcons, hawks, turkeys, chickens,
various finches, the Java sparrow, and even canaries. In the wild, Trichomoniasis is endemic among doves and pigeons.

Birds of prey are thought to contract the disease by eating infected doves and pigeons. According to Michigan’s
Department of Natural Resources, in the wild there are strains of Trichomoniasis which do not cause disease as well as
highly virulent strains that circulate in flocks causing disease and death. The severity of the disease depends on the
susceptibility of the bird and the virulence of the strain. Transmission of Trichomoniasis probably occurs between birds
by direct beak to beak contact. Indirect transmission via drinking water probably also occurs.
The most tell-tale sign that
you have a budgie afflicted with Trichomoniasis is the bird will vomit and sneeze. When vomiting, the bird looks like it is
regurgitating food as if it were preparing to feed a mate or chick.
If you walk in your aviary and hear sneezing, beware!!
Track down that sneeze and watch that bird. Budgies with Trichomoniasis will often look dirty above their cere, where
they have flicked mucous while sneezing or vomiting. The vomit may be a mucusy liquid of whole seed. If you suspect a
bird of having Trichomoniasis, isolate it in a separate cage.
Place paper (white works best) in the tray below. After
several hours, check the paper and you will be able to see what the bird has been vomiting. Vomit might also be on the
walls of your aviary. You will probably also notice your bird rubbing its face on the perches. As the disease progresses,
the bird will sit listlessly, puffed-up on the perch. The bird is beginning to starve and will become extremely emaciated.
This happens because the esophagus is blocked and the bird cannot get food down. Sometimes birds will just sit in the
food bowl, hungry, but unable to eat. Birds can also suffocate if the lesions cause a blockage of the trachea.

There are
number of medications used to treat Trichomoniasis. These include Dimetridazole, Metronidazole, Ronidazole, and
Carnidazole. They are all effective against the parasite and can be purchased from Foy’s Pigeon Supply, (877)
355-7727. As long as the bird can still drink, the drug can be administered through drinking water. These drugs are
water soluble and water stable. Directions usually are to treat for 5 to 7 days. Usually, affected birds will respond
quickly—but don’t forget to finish the prescription. Also, make sure that during the treatment, all water
sources are medicated. You do need to watch your birds to make sure that they do not quit drinking while you are
medicating them. The medications taste bitter and the birds do not like them. I have found that birds that are severely
affected by the disease may need to be tube fed the medicine mixed with a bit water. Some of these drugs are rather
toxic, so be careful not to overdose your birds. Symptoms of overdose are loss of balance and death. Recovery from
mild attacks of Trichomoniasis produces immunity to more virulent strains. Resistance to the drugs named above is
common, and you may wish to rotate the type of medication you use to treat Trichomoniasis. I personally switch
between Ronidazole 10% and Metronidazole, and this has worked well for me. Ronidazole is reportedly the safest to
use on budgies and can be used any stage of the breeding cycle. There are some companies that sell Ronidazole 6%
(one product is called Ronivet), but I have not found the 6% to be strong enough against these pesky parasites and
have ended up having to re-treat the birds. The most important point to note is that if one of your birds shows symptoms
of Trichomoniasis, you must assume that the rest of your birds have been infected and treat the ENTIRE flock. All of
your birds must be treated at the same time. Many of your birds may harbor the parasite but not show symptoms. To
prevent an outbreak of Trichamoniasis in your aviary, quarantine all new birds. Many, if not most, Budgies have been
exposed at one time or another to the disease. For the most part, they will not show any symptoms. However, if they
become stressed, for example by a move to your aviary, their natural immunity will be lowered, possibly allowing the
disease to surface and the bird to become infectious. You may wish to treat all incoming birds with one of the
medications mentioned above. Because Trichanomads are persistent, treatment needs to be part of your aviary
management plan. Many budgie breeders treat their flock at least twice a year to prevent outbreaks. It is probably a
wise idea to treat birds before the breeding season. Foy’s Pigeon Supply recommends that breeders disinfect
drinking water with Nolvasan or Oxine for a week to prevent another outbreak after treating birds for the disease. They
also recommend following all treatments with a Probotic. Trichanomads are very sensitive to drying, so let bowls and
equipment dry well after cleaning. Regularly disinfect food and water sources with 10% bleach solution, and make sure
that wild birds cannot infect your birds. Practice good hygiene, particularly with water bowls and wet food, which can
harbor the parasite. To keep your birds happy and free of Trichamoniasis, avoid overcrowding and other types of stress
to your birds.

http://www.eirebudgerigarsociety.org/Forms/Trichomoniasis.pdf
 
Laura said:
Also, I doubt that the bird will drink water with garlic in it.

Try giving some greens.

Also, a tiny fraction of lugol's solution in the water might be helpful. And I do mean TINY.

Keeping the bird hydrated is very important, so better give her water she will drink.
 
It is quite possible the new bird has introduced a pathogen she was not exposed to before. New bird might be resistant to it not showing any symptoms. Coccidiosis is the most common disease present in large populations of birds such are the stocks in petshops.
How are her stools - does she have diarhoea or very loose stool? Before attempting any treatment the proper approach would be to check her stool under the microscope for coccidial cysts. Seems this is not an option for you so we can only guess.
Another thing that is quite possible is that teh presence of the male has triggered egg production and this can make her feel poorly and lower her immune system especially if she was deficient in Calcium.

Lugol's is often used with pigeons for variety of conditions. I would suggest to put one drop ( even lest if you can ) of 1% solution in a smal l quantity of water like a tumbler and tehn give her few small pipettes directly in the beak. Also if you can get homeopathic remedy called Nuxvomica this can be given in the same fashion, one granule dissolved in water.

You can do this twice a day.

After that good probiotic should be given for 7 days . Try to google product called liviferm by Chevita Gmbh it is excellent.
 
This morning she behaves much more normally, chirping, drinking, eating, jumping, not being so inactive like yesterday, and she haven't vomited yet since yesterday's evening when I reported it here. I spoke with the vet at 9AM today and told him all of that and he said that it's a really good sign that she stopped vomiting, that it could be nothing serious then, but to keep observing her and if she starts to vomit continuously again, that I should take her to him for an examination.

I ditched the garlic-water immediately yesterday and gave her extremely low amount of Lugol's like I said, she drank it now and then, hopefully that will have some positive effect on her. I will get her to the vet anyway even if she stays seemingly fine like this.

Thanks treesparrow for all that info about Trichomoniasis, parasites, symptoms and possible treatment. If she actually has it then I suspect she got it most probably from the other male budgie (kissing and all). In that case both of them should be treated, actually, I will get both of them to the vet just to make sure he is ok too.

I will check more about Nuxvomica and Liviferm like you suggested Z. She doesn't have a loose stool, actually it seems more like she's a bit constipated, that there is less stool on the sand floor than usually, but normally looking. Thanks for advices Z, I hope that it's all just effect of a stress, male presence, egg production, etc., rather than some bird disease, pathogen.
 
drazen said:
Thanks for advices Z, I hope that it's all just effect of a stress, male presence, egg production, etc., rather than some bird disease, pathogen.
It looks like it. In traditional Chinese medicine, vomiting is usually connected to "rebellious stomach Chi" and this can happen if the environmental stress is overwhelming.
Do make sure she has access to some vegetables or fruits occasionally, not only seeds.
If you can get hold of it - Liviferm should definitely be given every couple of months for a week for a good condition. Its an excellent product,
 
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