My Dreams???

[Arreis13]

I have always had dreams that I felt were just to strange to share so I started a dream journal at the age of sixteen thinking maybe Thar dreams would become less weird?? Now thirteen years later I am still having dreams that are unusual. Last night in my dream I was swimming across the Klamath river where I grew up swimming, and I looked behind me and my big sister was struggling to swim across. Well as I turned to go back and help het suddenly a huge whirlpool opened up and began pulling her in. Then I noticed a few other Kurds floating down stream toword the whirlpool and they were all sucked inside. I managed to grab my sisters hand and pull her out then we both started pulling out more and more kids and as I sat each one down on a bench they became paralyzed like each kid was turned into vegetable after I saved them. The last boy I remember grabbing was completely limp yet alive and I held him thinking why was it that they were all swimming and fighting to get out of this whirpool and now they are vegetables?? The memory of this dream is still very fresh. Thought Id share.. Thanks :)

 

[Arreis13]

Forgive my spelling. I will spell cheak in the future.

 

[Sol Logos]

Lifeless aspects of your own psyche. Children - suggesting unretrievable memories and emotions from your childhood. The dream indicates your desire to resuscitate all this but you feel unable. Water and swimming in it shows your psyche has been inundated with previous unconscious / unknown material but your fear of what it's revealing about your own suppressions is stopping further progress.

 

[Arreis13]

Wow! I dream about water alot. And high bridges that seem to never be complete or not finished.. Im either jumping off the bridges into water,or im standing on them looking down terrified. Also latley ive been dreaming of trams that are very very high and im inside small cage like trams that I sometimes jump out of or sit there looking way down at the water.

 

[anart]

Lifeless aspects of your own psyche. Children - suggesting unretrievable memories and emotions from your childhood. The dream indicates your desire to resuscitate all this but you feel unable. Water and swimming in it shows your psyche has been inundated with previous unconscious / unknown material but your fear of what it's revealing about your own suppressions is stopping further progress.

alkhemst, you write the above as if it is necessarily true. It's not. It's your opinion on what this dream might mean. There are an infinite amount of opinions about what such a dream might mean, and the dreamer is in the best position to determine that - so it's helpful to be a little less certain in your posts. I've noticed that in many of your posts you're giving advice as if you 'know' about things you simply cannot know. It might be worth taking a look at and learning to question your own thinking a bit.

 

[Sol Logos]

It's a given that it's my opinion but I was in a rush and didn't provide the exit clause, mostly I do. It's a convention that's probably helpful too if we could do away with it. We'd have to write and say much less if we didn't string every other sentence with "in my opinion" and its other forms because isn't it obvious?

Why is "knowing" something is not true any less an assumption? It's an accepted assumption hence the proliferation of postmodernism but there's a helpful question there about why we value feeling uncertain over feeling certain. What bothers you about someone else feeling certain?

 

[anart]

It's a given that it's my opinion but I was in a rush and didn't provide the exit clause, mostly I do. It's a convention that's probably helpful too if we could do away with it. We'd have to write and say much less if we didn't string every other sentence with "in my opinion" and its other forms because isn't it obvious?

No, it's not obvious and since this is a research forum, it would be appreciated if you could make a little extra effort for clarity's sake.

Why is "knowing" something is not true any less an assumption? It's an accepted assumption hence the proliferation of postmodernism but there's a helpful question there about why we value feeling uncertain over feeling certain. What bothers you about someone else feeling certain?

When one 'feels certain' about something that is not certain, it is a lie to the self - an illusion. By the way, postmodernism is, in general, a psychopathic attempt to twist reality to subjectivity. Quite frankly, the issue here is that you do not know and you cannot know such things - therefore, it would be appreciated if you could take a look at your own thinking and realize that when you speak with certainty about things that you cannot be certain about, it reveals significant flaws in your thinking. It also, generally, makes little sense and can lead others astray. We value signal over noise on this forum, thus the need to clarify.

 

[Alana]

Why is "knowing" something is not true any less an assumption? It's an accepted assumption hence the proliferation of postmodernism but there's a helpful question there about why we value feeling uncertain over feeling certain. What bothers you about someone else feeling certain?

Feeling certain about things we don't factually know, is lying to ourselves as anart says, that stems from our ignorance about how the human brain/machine operates. And this can lead to many problems down the road, not only for ourselves but those we interact with as well.

I don't know if you had the chance to check them out, but two fascinating books on cognitive psychology that some members have been reading recently, really brings this point home (links below to relevant threads on the books):

Strangers to Ourselves
Thinking Fast and Slow

If you - or anyone - goes through life talking and sharing with certainty whatever opinion/impression is formed in their mind despite the facts, wouldn't that make it harder for new information and actual data to be accepted from our minds? And wouldn't that then keep a person lost in illusion?

 

[Sol Logos]

Isn't this all noise since it's all off the topic at hand? Interesting I wasnt asked why I wrote above and it was quickly determined that I was wrong. That shows at lot of certainty with zero investigation. The reality is because I do not say things from the sources of your accepted truth, it appears I'm a person in illusion. That is a dangerous path too.

Anyway happy to discuss more on another thread so not to create further noise.

 

[anart]

Isn't this all noise since it's all off the topic at hand? Interesting I wasnt asked why I wrote above and it was quickly determined that I was wrong. That shows at lot of certainty with zero investigation. The reality is because I do not say things from the sources of your accepted truth, it appears I'm a person in illusion. That is a dangerous path too.

Anyway happy to discuss more on another thread so not to create further noise.

It's just fine to continue the discussion here, actually, or we would have moved it.

It wasn't determined that you were 'wrong' - it was stated that you cannot know such a thing that you state with such certainty. There is a difference. Can you see it? Nor is it about 'sources of accepted truth' - that sounds like more postmodernist thinking, actually. There IS objective truth, alkhemst, but that's not really what this particular discussion is about. What this is about, really - when you boil it down - is your self-importance. It was just a 'flavor' in your writing, before your responses in this thread, but it's quite clear now that at the core of the issue here is your resistance to the idea that you might not know all that you think you know. In other words, self-importance (with a side of right-man syndrome). If it weren't self-importance, you would have responded with something along the lines of, "oh, I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right, there is no way I could know what someone elses dream symbolism means." You didn't. You got all defensive and went on the attack. See? Self-importance will getcha every time. It's very common, but it's also very detrimental - that's all.

 

[mkrnhr]

alkhemst,
You do not understand. Dream interpretation is usually addressed as hypotheses. It deals with possible interpretations that are open to the dreamer to take into account as possible or probable directions to think about. That's different than claiming absolute truths in a authoritarian manner.

This is a forum where observing and understanding ourselves, and how we interact with others, is central. If something is observed concerning our behavior, we can think about it, see how we can identify it and act upon it, or we can choose to listen to our ego as you do, and project into others. However, subjecting others to your subjectivity is not what works here.

Edit: anart addressed the issue in clearer terms.

 

[Sol Logos]

Ok I'll take that on board. I did write the first response while walking with little time and based on a hunch. If I come across arrogant my apologies. Something for me to look at.

 

[Sol Logos]

This interaction helped me see something in myself not so pretty. But in the face of this and my wife who confirmed my arrogance from time to time, I'd not benefit by denying it. I've still got much to learn and from that angle it's a blessing that lessons are all around me as long as I'm willing to be open to them. Sometimes I'm not but it's a good reminder for me that when feeling defensive I'm ripe for self delusion. Self importance perhaps but that's the facade for me because underneath hides the opposite - a feeling of not being important.

In any case, I thought it's still valuable to let those interested know where I was coming from with the hunch which led me to write the above.

In actual fact I don't believe dream interpretation is clear cut although it has come across differently by my lack of humility in terms of what I believe.

When I look at other's dreams I start by trying to identify what might be the collective archetypes as useful guideposts. I find Joseph Campbell's material valuable in terms of archetypal symbols especially as seen through various historical and cultural mythology. Of course Jung too.

So a dream involving being submerged in water or swimming etc is potentially a common archetype that can suggest the dreamer's inundation within what is life giving and sustaining in a spiritual sense or what Jung might say towards individuation or wholeness. It may also relate specifically to the dreamer's personal life experiences eg if the river was recognizable (a river where the dreamer grew up was mentioned). This fact was something else related to the the dreamer's childhood as an important theme.

In the context of the dream being posted here I felt perhaps it's related to having an inundation of spiritual related material allowing for a soul growth considering water especially being submerged is representative of a new spiritual life (ie like baptismal rites).

However there's conflict in this dream. So if the above is relevant then it could indicate that this growth has created an internal and likely external conflict in the dreamer. The central theme of that conflict was the drowning children at first the sister and then the kids.

With the sister struggling to swim I'd guess (not definite) there's a feeling in the dreamer that the sister might have difficulty with such soul changes. There seems to be a fear that these changes might spin the dreamer's life out of control (whirlpool) and the dreamer will be lost (sucked into the vortex
/ go mad?) and will lose the sister also (their relationship?).

The children may represent child aspects of the dreamer's psyche. These are almost lifeless and if they were lucid they would speak of the memories from the dreamer's childhood that perhaps have been suppressed. This appears to be the crux of the dreams conflict. On the one hand wanting to confront what may be painful feelings from childhood to facilitate further spiritual growth versus not facing all the fears in the present of what might manifest by allowing this growth / process.

The fact the children turn into vegetables is like the saying for people in a coma "he's a vegetable". So, in my opinion, I wouldn't say exactly it's a warning but I don't know of a better word, that the opportunity of growth if not acted upon soon will make things more difficult - i.e. It's more difficult to resuscitate a person from a coma.

Anyway I hope that makes sense or is helpful, granted I wasn't being very helpful with my approach earlier.

Also I don't "know" the above interpretation will relate to the dreamer for sure but I'm hoping having insight into where I was coming from would be more useful.

Also thanks for you comments and frankness..

"Coz it's hard being humble when I'm perfect in every way" ;)

 

[obyvatel]

Hi alkhemst,
You may find this thread on dream interpretation useful.

 

[Arreis13]

I do appreciate your response as well as all the other posts here. I learn from everything and take all into consideration. Thank you all. ;D