Natal Chart Question

[EmeraldHope]

I do not know anything very in depth about astrology, other than the basics of the signs, etc. I had read in another thread that your natal chart could be a general outline tool that maybe helpful in working. I've had mine for a while, but really do not know how to make any use of it.


I have always thought it odd that my sun, moon, and mercury are all in pisces. If anyone has any in depth knowledge on chart reading, what is practical understanding of that? Or a good resource to figure it out myself?

 

[Miss.K]

The free horoscope section you can find on astro.com is not bad for beginners. There is some different interpretations of natal chart, transits, and relation charts, that can be funny, can be inlightening at times, but don't go terribly deep.
To me it has been (still is) very helpful to use their free software in the extended chart selection, where one can see progressions etc. without having to know how to calculate, (or have money to buy software) but it doesn't offer interpretations.

I think that learning Astrology is, as everything else, a matter of research, experimentation, and observation. I think I learned most from observation, (am still observing and learning) after getting some basic information from books and searches on the web (that has both good and faulty information)

But as with everything else a deeper understanding comes from study and time. Hmm. I don't really know what books to recommend...The first more serious one I read was Liz Greenes Saturn book, and I found it very interesting, but it is many years ago, and I don't know if I would find it as interesting today.
Many astrologers refer to Alan Leo, as one of the old ones who has influenced many astrologers, but I have not read him, (yes briefly once at a friends place, only remember he talked about Gemini energy giving pointy noses, which I have found to be true to a certain extend)
I read some beginners book by a guy named Stephan Arroyo once, and it was helpful at the time, can't remember the title, but I think he's well known.

Also to get a better understanding of for example Sun, Moon and Mercury in Pisces you can try to google Pisces or each planet or combination together with astrology, and sometimes I have found that some interesting article comes up when searching this way. Also perhaps read something about the rulers of Pisces, Jupiter and Neptune to get a better picture of the energy.

Digging into Greek mythology is also interesting, in order to understand the archetypal energies, as the Planets are represented as Gods (and there's some very entertaining stories as well )

Happy hunting :)

 

[Avi]

I do not know anything very in depth about astrology, other than the basics of the signs, etc. I had read in another thread that your natal chart could be a general outline tool that maybe helpful in working. I've had mine for a while, but really do not know how to make any use of it.


I have always thought it odd that my sun, moon, and mercury are all in pisces. If anyone has any in depth knowledge on chart reading, what is practical understanding of that? Or a good resource to figure it out myself?

Sun, Moon and Mercury in Pisces could mean many things, depending if early degree, in which case the Fixed Stars Enif and Fomalhaut, the Nose of Pegasus and the Watcher of the South, Gabriel would be conjunct; or late degree Pisces, such as 24 or 28 degrees, where Fixed Stars Sadalbari and Scheat are found in the constellation Pegasus as well.

There is no single good resource as far as I am concerned but if you want to get into old astrologers, and therefore traditional methods of interpretation and meaning, Ptolemy wrote Tetrabiblos in 3rd Century, there are Arabic and Egyptian methods dating back earlier,, then there will be modern interps like Liz Greene, Alan Leo, Marc Edmund Jones, Dane Rudhyar and quite a few more well known authors in the genre.

Robert Pelletier has written some solid books as has Isabel Hickey.

Martin Gansten or Rumen Kolev are recommended for reading technical formulae in how the mathematics plays into astrology when delineating the angles, Ascendant, Midheaven, Descendant and Nadir as well as techniques of progression such as primary motion or solar arcs.

There are more schools of thought about the origins, applications and interpretations of astrology than I know. Sidereal, heliocentric, draconic, medieval, babylonian, egyptian, esoteric, uranian, modern and traditional for starters.

Mercury is in detriment in Pisces. Pisces is the polar opposite or other side of the coin to Virgo which is ruled by Mercury. In Pisces the Mercurial traits of intellect, wit, rationality and communication are "watered down" which is to say dependent more on feeling and intuition than rational thought.

The Sun and Moon in Pisces, depending if they are conjunct, etc, indicates an intensely sensitive person who cannot really escape the feeling and emotional state, tends to be very empathetic, sympathetic, musically and artistically inclined, certainly appreciative, often expressing talent and interest in the healing modalities such as massage therapy, yoga, reiki, etc.

Depending on whether Pisces is on an angle determines the strength of importance in the chart, though with Sun, Moon and Mercury in Pisces I cannot imagine another sign in your chart having more predominance, though could be.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Ptolemy/Tetrabiblos/home.html

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Constellations/Pisces.html#Fixed_stars_in_

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Fomalhaut.html

Astrowin.org has a good free natal interpretation I think, Chaos Astrology is OK, Astro.com is popular and solid.

Of the three if you choose one to enter chart details I recommend Astrowin.

:)

 

[Miss.K]

Sun, Moon and Mercury in Pisces could mean many things, depending if early degree, in which case the Fixed Stars Enif and Fomalhaut, the Nose of Pegasus and the Watcher of the South, Gabriel would be conjunct; or late degree Pisces, such as 24 or 28 degrees, where Fixed Stars Sadalbari and Scheat are found in the constellation Pegasus as well.

Hi Herakles,

Do you use a wide orb, when including fixed stars? I have suspected an influence in wider orbs, when it comes to Sun or Moon (conjunct fixed star), but generally I use only one degree on each side.

 

[Miss.K]

Of the three if you choose one to enter chart details I recommend Astrowin.

I just checked out Astrowin, and there is one orb difference on my progressed Acs, compared to Astro.com

I think that Astro.com has the right calculation method, as it fits with events, but I can't calculate, so I can't try myself.

Though it is not much of a difference, it makes predictions wrong by almost two years in my case, which is not practical.

 

[Avi]

Sun, Moon and Mercury in Pisces could mean many things, depending if early degree, in which case the Fixed Stars Enif and Fomalhaut, the Nose of Pegasus and the Watcher of the South, Gabriel would be conjunct; or late degree Pisces, such as 24 or 28 degrees, where Fixed Stars Sadalbari and Scheat are found in the constellation Pegasus as well.

Hi Herakles,

Do you use a wide orb, when including fixed stars? I have suspected an influence in wider orbs, when it comes to Sun or Moon (conjunct fixed star), but generally I use only one degree on each side.

Good Morning Miss K,

Mostly, but not always.

It is a relatively new phenomena for orbs of such tight influence. We see in books from Ptolemy, Robson, Lily, that orbs for fixed stars were allowed up to 6 degrees, back in the day.

I personally think that 1 degree is too tight for a natal, but for progressions, probli wanna keep it under two.

Depends on the star as well of course, don't you agree? Aldebaran two or three degrees from the MC is definitely conjunct and influential in my book. Fixed Stars in parans is another story.

I've written a few experts in the field on this topic, including Diana Rosenberg who was kind enough to reply.

There is no absolute right or wrong for this.

I use up to 4 degrees for conjunction if the star in question is one of the 'heavy-hitters' a la Fomalhaut, Regulus, Aldebaran, Antares, Sirius, Vega, Algol, Spica, etc. I also always check the declination for some Fixed Stars are way out of bounds as far as the path of the ecliptic is concerned, those require tighter orbs.

4 degrees as the outer most allowable limit may be seen as wide, and it is, but most of the time in practical application the orbs are under 3 degrees, and I only use such for those stars that are well known.

If they are on on an angle allows more orb of influence, I think, with stars like Algol I could allow up to 6 degrees.

I see it on a sliding scale.

Tight Orbs, i.e. 1 degree or under, for primary motion and stars in parans.

Sun and Moon or an Angle are naturally allowed up to 3 - 4 degrees for conjunction.

Use what works for you, to research check out William Lily, Vivian Robson, Diana Rosenberg, Bernadette Brady, in no particular order.

 

[Avi]

Of the three if you choose one to enter chart details I recommend Astrowin.

I just checked out Astrowin, and there is one orb difference on my progressed Acs, compared to Astro.com

I think that Astro.com has the right calculation method, as it fits with events, but I can't calculate, so I can't try myself.

Though it is not much of a difference, it makes predictions wrong by almost two years in my case, which is not practical.

If you are in progressions and the methods differ yes there can be a difference of up to two years.

Astro probli has the right calculation method but I am sure Astrowin does too.

Which method are you looking at? Directed Solar Arc?

I recommended Astrowin for a Natal Interpretation for folks somewhat new to Astrology.

I have software that might perform the calculation you are discussing, or there is the old school, get out yer calculator and remember your trigonometry.

:D

Progressed ACS? Did you mean progressed ascendant?

 

[Miss.K]

:) Yes Herakles, it makes sense, some stars are stronger than others. And angles etc. the same

I think that though I generally accept wide orbs (if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it probably is a duck) I have for a time experimented with using very narrow orbs generally (for planets and angles as well), in order to try to get specific about what is the most dominant energy at the moment, and then secondary note the wider orbs. (I usually set the orb at 22% in the astro.com software)

If they are on on an angle allows more orb of influence, I think, with stars like Algol I could allow up to 6 degrees.

You're probably right, BTW I read this IMO interesting study on Algol:

http://ye-stars.com/oldalgol.htm

(with my natal Saturn in very close conjunction, she's a mean old friend of mine, and she constantly remind me of the horrors and suffering of this world)

I have software that might perform the calculation you are discussing, or there is the old school, get out yer calculator and remember your trigonometry.

:D

I haver never learned to calculate a chart by hand, and am not very good at mathematics, so Astrology didn't become a study until I got my first computer (thank you magic machine)
So I just pressed the calculate progressions, in the Astrowin, and noted the difference, it wasn't Solar Arc

Progressed ACS? Did you mean progressed ascendant?

Yes of cause ;)

 

[Avi]

The link you provide on Algol was written by Diana Rosenberg and is what led me to writing her and asking Q's.

At the time my questions pertained mostly to using aspects other than conjunction, trine for instance.

She was not conclusive in an answer, but basically stated there are situations which allow for it (other aspects, and wider than 1 degree orb) though for the most part she adheres to tight orbs as you've described.

As to Algol, a mean old mistress but also prominent in charts of artists. Medusa as the dark feminine or creative inspiration of the void, a phrase I use to describe Black Moon Lilith.

In the secondary progression of my natal (which is probably what was calculated at astrowin if not directed solar arc) Black Moon Lilith is partile (conjunct on the degree, or less than an orb of 1) Algol and Jupiter by two degrees.



So you have Saturn conjunct, a malefic, the greater malefic, which is restriction, discipline, authority and opportunity, versus Jupiter which is expansive, benefic, exaggeration, indulgence, philosophy and learning. (I hope)

Quite interesting.

Attached is progressed chart followed by solar return next year.

Neptune and Sun conjunct in Pisces last occurred in either 18th or 19th century, cannot quite recall just now, but ~ 200 years since last in alignment in Pisces at 0. Which opposes Regulus at 0 Virgo on 1st December 2011. This occurs on my birthday next year.

In the progressed chart you see the DC at 24 Pisces. This means Sadalbari is setting at the time the chart refers to, which is not today, but weeks after birth.

http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Sadalbari.html

Martin Gansten writes an accessible book on Primary Motion (hand calculations, the math, etc) if interested.

The emphasis is not so much HOW the math is done but WHY it is.

:) Yes Herakles, it makes sense, some stars are stronger than others. And angles etc. the same

I think that though I generally accept wide orbs (if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it probably is a duck) I have for a time experimented with using very narrow orbs generally (for planets and angles as well), in order to try to get specific about what is the most dominant energy at the moment, and then secondary note the wider orbs. (I usually set the orb at 22% in the astro.com software)

If they are on on an angle allows more orb of influence, I think, with stars like Algol I could allow up to 6 degrees.

You're probably right, BTW I read this IMO interesting study on Algol:

http://ye-stars.com/oldalgol.htm

(with my natal Saturn in very close conjunction, she's a mean old friend of mine, and she constantly remind me of the horrors and suffering of this world)

I have software that might perform the calculation you are discussing, or there is the old school, get out yer calculator and remember your trigonometry.

:D

I haver never learned to calculate a chart by hand, and am not very good at mathematics, so Astrology didn't become a study until I got my first computer (thank you magic machine)
So I just pressed the calculate progressions, in the Astrowin, and noted the difference, it wasn't Solar Arc

Progressed ACS? Did you mean progressed ascendant?

Yes of cause ;)

 

[Miss.K]

The link you provide on Algol was written by Diana Rosenberg and is what led me to writing her and asking Q's.

Reminds me to check my sources, I thought it was the guy on the page that had a link to it
but funny as it was the same article that got me interested in the fixed stars.
I haven't read so much about them, only have a list of positions and short description here http://www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html (the site that lead to the article on Algol) and have been observing a little, and I have noticed enough effect to keep me interested, like the dark, dark day the cat almost died following a small but very infected bite, mercury was on the one called Dorsum with the description The Wheel of Fortune; bites from venomous creatures (with Sun or Mars)

Thanks for the info, you can report if something extraordinary happens next year. :)

And EmeraldHope, Neptune returning to Pisces (homeland) after what-is-it 165 years might be interesting to dig into as well

 

[NewOrleans]

Had never been good at doing math or my chart, so I only used to read the daily horoscope in the newspaper before free online horoscopes became popular. (remember newspapers?) :O
But some kind older lady did my natal chart once (being Aquarius is all I remember) and said something about a "grand kite" shape. Anybody know what that means? Just curious.

 

[Avi]

Yes, its a configuration on the chart between planets or points in aspect to give the contour a kite formation.

This involves a Grand Trine, and the Kite itself. It is an "arm" or "petal" of a Grand Sextile.

The former on this page

http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/grandtrine_kite.shtml

the latter on part 5.

 

[NewOrleans]

Thanks, Herakles!

 

[Avi]

No, but its OK, and Rob Tillett is another one I've had some written correspondence with. I like his site in some areas, dislike it very much in other areas, but overall the site is good for fixed stars basics.

BTW, LOL, I don't think anything extraordinary will need to be reported. :P If there is something 'extraordinary' that goes down then it probably won't need me to report it!

:)

The link you provide on Algol was written by Diana Rosenberg and is what led me to writing her and asking Q's.

Reminds me to check my sources, I thought it was the guy on the page that had a link to it
but funny as it was the same article that got me interested in the fixed stars.
I haven't read so much about them, only have a list of positions and short description here http://www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html (the site that lead to the article on Algol) and have been observing a little, and I have noticed enough effect to keep me interested, like the dark, dark day the cat almost died following a small but very infected bite, mercury was on the one called Dorsum with the description The Wheel of Fortune; bites from venomous creatures (with Sun or Mars)

Thanks for the info, you can report if something extraordinary happens next year. :)

And EmeraldHope, Neptune returning to Pisces (homeland) after what-is-it 165 years might be interesting to dig into as well

 

[Miss.K]

I like his site in some areas, dislike it very much in other areas, but overall the site is good for fixed stars basics.

I agree,