OK Folks! I'm ready to give back -- finally!!

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Looks to me that you are working at a good direction and more positive energy output (giving something back) might help you on your further journey.

OK. Something shifted. Having received so much help from you all on the Forum, I’m (finally!!!) feeling an imbalance in the energy exchange. Definitely feeling an urge to return the flow and give back . . . feeling a need to contribute. Been asked and want to give what’s been asked.

I know this question has been asked by other Forum members. So, if anyone has any specific tasks that I’d be qualified to perform, sign me up.

If there’s nothing specific, maybe I could just read through any threads that pique my interest or curiosity and see if there’s any way I could contribute towards those discussions.

I think I’d be interested in learning how to do research AND become better skilled at using the search feature. Seems that if I could improve just those 2 skills, I could contribute more value.

So, if anyone has any ideas about which Boards would be good places to start me off in educating myself & learning those 2 skills, by all means — fire away.

In the meantime, I thought maybe I could start with the Tech Support Board and see if there are any threads that address these questions.

Suggestions - advice - clues - hints - directions welcome.:)

Cheers.

 

[dugdeep]

If there’s nothing specific, maybe I could just read through any threads that pique my interest or curiosity and see if there’s any way I could contribute towards those discussions.

This would certainly be a way of helping, 13TT :)

Rather than looking for specific tasks to be doled out, I find it's often better to hold the intention of helping and see what comes about. You'd be surprised how often, when holding the question "how can I be of service?" something ends up falling in your lap!

Glad to see you're ready to start contributing :)

 

[luc]

Looks to me that you are working at a good direction and more positive energy output (giving something back) might help you on your further journey.

OK. Something shifted. Having received so much help from you all on the Forum, I’m (finally!!!) feeling an imbalance in the energy exchange. Definitely feeling an urge to return the flow and give back . . . feeling a need to contribute. Been asked and want to give what’s been asked.

That sounds great, 13 Twirling Triskeles! I think this is one of the most important feelings/realizations we can have, and can motivate us greatly to "overcome ourselves" and become more giving.

I know this question has been asked by other Forum members. So, if anyone has any specific tasks that I’d be qualified to perform, sign me up.

I think the better approach would be for you to come up with something you like and which may benefit others here instead of asking for an "assignment" - in fact, you already came up with something:

If there’s nothing specific, maybe I could just read through any threads that pique my interest or curiosity and see if there’s any way I could contribute towards those discussions.

I think I’d be interested in learning how to do research AND become better skilled at using the search feature. Seems that if I could improve just those 2 skills, I could contribute more value.

Maybe one advice would be to just "get your feet wet" by keeping the intent of helping in mind, as dugdeep suggested. If you focus on helping and giving something back while posting here, the research skills will come with time I think. For example, you reply to a post, remember something you want to quote, then hit the search button, and get frustrated :D But after a while, you will figure out the best ways to use the search function and its options, and you will try using a google search in combination with site:cassiopaea.org/forum, and after a while you will get better. The same goes for research - after a while, it really gets easier - just start doing it!

Another hint: while "reading through any threads that pique your interest" is fine of course, in my experience, it's important to keep that intent to help in mind that dugdeep mentioned. In other words - we must be cautious not to fall into "consumption mode" when browsing the forum and make it all about entertaining ourselves, but instead we should ask ourselves: where can I help in a meaningful way? Or, when reading: what can I do with the information I have just read to be of service?

I know that I fall into this trap sometimes that I start reading the forum just to be entertained - this is definetely not healthy and has nothing to do with "giving back", OSIT.

Good luck!

 

[Dirgni]

Some suggestions for those who want to contribute and do not know how: :)

Q: (L) Okay, so the next question is: We have numerous activities that are creative for people to be able to release some of their pent up emotions about all of the things that are happening in the world that make everybody unhappy. They can get on SOTT, they can write commentary, they can work on the forum, they can write things on the forum, they can have exchanges, they can have meetings with other people. There are many things that people could be doing, but it's like the excuse always comes down to, "Oh, the frequency fence. I can't do anything because I'm depressed, or I'm this, or I'm that or the other thing." You're saying that they've won half the battle, but it seems to me that it's harder than that. There is something else. How to get over that initial resistance?

A: Taking the bull by the horns is always fearful in the imagination, but when you approach the beast, he usually lays down and submits.

Q: (L) That doesn't answer my question. Okay, what constitutes "approaching the beast"? Since that seems to be where everybody gets stuck...

A: As Yoda said, no try, just do, if only a little. That will break the logjam. Butterfly wings and all that.

There are lots of ways to contribute. Being active on the forum, helping people out on the forum, suggesting articles for SOTT, using your experience to help others on the forum, donating, etc.

No reason to draw a blank here! :)

13 Twirling Triskeles, maybe you could just start doing something as suggested by the Cs, Laura, Mr. Premise and dugdeep and luc above. You could do something you are interested in and share your experiences in the appropriate threads. Most probably you get feedback and friendly suggestions. Over time you will find several opportunities to give back, IMO. :D

Just my 2 cents

 

[Cosmos]

Can't add much to the suggestions the others have given you. I think that is a good way to start and remember to do things step by step, since "rome was not build in a day" either.

Besides the suggestions above, there is also the possibility of helping out on SOTT and/or with translations on SOTT translate for translating books and stuff.

See here for further information:

Call For SOTT Editors
Becoming a SOTT translator / transcriber: Help needed


Also, on the FOTCM board are many other projects (something there for any skill) that are constantly going on, where one can contribute:

Joining the private FOTCM Board
About the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind
Volunteers for FOTCM
FOTCM Statement of Principles

 

[Chad]

I'd echo all the good guidance above - to anybody wishing to help out. Particularly dirgni's various suggestions, they were useful for me when i wanted to get started and stopped me feeling overwhelmed :) It also shows how the simplest tasks can be so very helpful.

When i read your previous posts and then Pashalis' suggestion, i thought it was excellent advice; not only does it help others but it shifts the focus from ourselves, allowing any realisations we've recently learned to process, rather than over thinking things too much.

For myself, i began to proofread Sott Talk Radio then after doing quite a few of those, i felt confident enough to try transcribing - something i had never done before, and then even did a few professional jobs! But the experience proofreading gave me the confidence that i at least knew what was needed and whether i was up to the job.

The point being that as your confidence, interests and skills grow, so will your discernment for seeing where help is needed, and where you can help most. So for me it was: step by step, with a learning curve and some effort, but it should also be fun!

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

WOW! Yay! Thank you all so much. Every single thing each of you has said is EXACTLY and PRECISELY what I meant by ‘specific tasks’. All your advice & suggestions help make this subject more concrete, solid, practical, do-able. I can definitely WORK with this information as a foundation and stepping stone.

Thank you dugdeep for your kind, inspiring — and amusing - thoughts. I like this part especially —

Rather than looking for specific tasks to be doled out, I find it's often better to hold the intention of helping and see what comes about. You'd be surprised how often, when holding the question "how can I be of service?" something ends up falling in your lap!

Yes! That matches my own life experiences as well — that’s exactly what DOES happen. As if the Universe hears our pleas (please?) and sends us precisely what we’ve requested & intended. Thanks so much for reminding me. Makes me feel more confident that I don’t have to figure out the details, I just need a general over-all aim and the Universe (& in this case, the Forum as well) will supply the options for me to choose from. Basically, giving me another chance to exercise my free will. How grand is that? :)

Glad to see you're ready to start contributing

You know what? Me too! I knew I’d eventually feel inspired to want to give back. It was only a matter of when. The ‘when’ has finally arrived. And it's such a relief. Like the burden of receiving is lifting and I don’t have to carry it around. I tell you honestly, it truly does feel better to give than to receive. It almost seems more self-serving for me to give than to receive because giving and contributing feel so good that it makes me feel as if I’m stealing or cheating by giving. Because I feel I get far more benefits by giving than I ever get by receiving. Oh Goddess! Another paradoxymoronic logic loop! :( But, I’m trying not to focus on that so much as just remaining focused on giving what’s asked without all the emotional gratitude, joyful, feelings flooding through me. I can do that. :)

Maybe one advice would be to just "get your feet wet" by keeping the intent of helping in mind, as dugdeep suggested. If you focus on helping and giving something back while posting here, the research skills will come with time I think. For example, you reply to a post, remember something you want to quote, then hit the search button, and get frustrated But after a while, you will figure out the best ways to use the search function and its options, and you will try using a google search in combination with site:cassiopaea.org/forum, and after a while you will get better. The same goes for research - after a while, it really gets easier - just start doing it!

Another hint: while "reading through any threads that pique your interest" is fine of course, in my experience, it's important to keep that intent to help in mind that dugdeep mentioned. In other words - we must be cautious not to fall into "consumption mode" when browsing the forum and make it all about entertaining ourselves, but instead we should ask ourselves: where can I help in a meaningful way? Or, when reading: what can I do with the information I have just read to be of service?

I know that I fall into this trap sometimes that I start reading the forum just to be entertained - this is definetely not healthy and has nothing to do with "giving back", OSIT.

luc — Very good points, luc. Thanks so much for bringing them to my attention. I will keep this in mind as I continue reading & learning. I think I DID fall into the trap you mention. I wouldn’t have called it ‘entertaining’ so much as satisfying my curiosity and desire to know more about that subject — but I suspect my approach falls under the same umbrella as being entertained, yes? So, thanks again for giving me a little heads-up so I can keep my intentions more clean and focused on the main point here — to help others.

It’s so nice to be reminded to remember to re-orient ourselves away from a service to ourselves consideration and look instead towards how can we be of service to others. Jeesh! Your post shocked :) me into realizing how deeply that self-service meme is ingrained within my psyche. Didn’t even notice it until you pointed it out. Thanks for the shock! :)

Dirgi — Thanks for those 2 quotes — by Laura and Mr. Premise. They’re precisely the info I was going to search for and make a note of for future reference reminders. Thanks for taking the time to find & post them for me. :)

Pashalis — Yes. And those are the other points I also want to make notes of as future reference reminders. Thanks to you also for those links. I’m going to check them out. Both to see if there’s something I can do immediately because I’m already competent in that particular skill, or possibly something for which I’d need to learn an entirely new skill set.

Ooops! Just caught myself falling into that trap luc mentioned above. Forgot to consider what’s more valuable from others’ point-of-view. Was thinking how much fun it would be FOR ME to learn another skill set — for my own enjoyment. Aaaargh!

But leaning new skill sets might not be all that much help or service to others now that I think about it. Interesting to consider. Thank you again luc for that clue to measure against my aim and see if there’s a match or not. I'm not saying that learning a new skill set would NOT be serving others. Maybe so. But, if so, then my intention would need to be aligned with serving others as the main aim -- and the fun part may or may not be a happy consequence. But, if the fun part becomes my aim, and the serving others is just a happy consequence, I've got it all backwards. Is this what you're talking about luc?

itellsya - Thank you so much. Your experience inspires me and boosts my confidence that I CAN do this — that contributing and giving back IS within my ability to do. It really does seem like being a baby learning how to take its first faltering steps. But you know those babies. You can’t keep ‘em down. They are absolutely determined to walk and overcome all obstacles or barriers. OK. I can temporarily adopt the baby determination-to-walk attitude as far as learning from scratch. Until I get my legs strong enough to support me at any rate. :)

The point being that as your confidence, interests and skills grow, so will your discernment for seeing where help is needed, and where you can help most. So for me it was: step by step, with a learning curve and some effort, but it should also be fun!

Thank you, itellsya for that vote of confidence. Truly inspiring for me to hear. And it makes total sense as well. Yay! :)

Well folks — I’ve clearly got a lot of really good advice, clues, solid, concrete, helpful, practical, information I can use in order to actually DO something useful rather than just wishing I could contribute. It’s feels exciting. :)

I have to refrain from feeling overwhelmed by gratitude and love for all you wonderful Beings! And that's part of what I'm practicing in order to deal with all these huge energy surges lately. So thanks to you all for supplying the fuel that feeds the fire that burns the impurities. Well, that's how it seems anyway. :)

Many Mahalos for all your assistance.

 

[Zar]

Some suggestions for those who want to contribute and do not know how: :)

Q: (L) Okay, so the next question is: We have numerous activities that are creative for people to be able to release some of their pent up emotions about all of the things that are happening in the world that make everybody unhappy. They can get on SOTT, they can write commentary, they can work on the forum, they can write things on the forum, they can have exchanges, they can have meetings with other people. There are many things that people could be doing, but it's like the excuse always comes down to, "Oh, the frequency fence. I can't do anything because I'm depressed, or I'm this, or I'm that or the other thing." You're saying that they've won half the battle, but it seems to me that it's harder than that. There is something else. How to get over that initial resistance?

A: Taking the bull by the horns is always fearful in the imagination, but when you approach the beast, he usually lays down and submits.

Q: (L) That doesn't answer my question. Okay, what constitutes "approaching the beast"? Since that seems to be where everybody gets stuck...

A: As Yoda said, no try, just do, if only a little. That will break the logjam. Butterfly wings and all that.

There are lots of ways to contribute. Being active on the forum, helping people out on the forum, suggesting articles for SOTT, using your experience to help others on the forum, donating, etc.

No reason to draw a blank here! :)

13 Twirling Triskeles, maybe you could just start doing something as suggested by the Cs, Laura, Mr. Premise and dugdeep and luc above. You could do something you are interested in and share your experiences in the appropriate threads. Most probably you get feedback and friendly suggestions. Over time you will find several opportunities to give back, IMO. :D

Just my 2 cents

Thanks for posting this quote, and a great thread. I'm also on or near the same position as 13 twirling triskeles and I've recognized my need to give to keep the energy flowing. I've started donating monthly and will begin posting more often.

 

[luc]

luc — Very good points, luc. Thanks so much for bringing them to my attention. I will keep this in mind as I continue reading & learning. I think I DID fall into the trap you mention. I wouldn’t have called it ‘entertaining’ so much as satisfying my curiosity and desire to know more about that subject — but I suspect my approach falls under the same umbrella as being entertained, yes? So, thanks again for giving me a little heads-up so I can keep my intentions more clean and focused on the main point here — to help others.

I think following your curiosity is totally fine, 13TT. But as you said, it's good practice to watch out not to fall into "consumption mode" - it's about finding a balance between absorbing information and giving back, for example in the form of sharing what you have learned or helping others with feedback and your own experiences. Also, keep in mind that "absorbing information" can become quite addictive, as laid out in this article on sott:

Dopamine Makes You Addicted To Seeking Information:

A dopamine induced loop - With the internet, twitter, and texting we now have almost instant gratification of our desire to seek. Want to talk to someone right away? Send a text and they respond in a few seconds. Want to look up some information? Just type it into google. What to see what your friends are up to? Go to twitter or facebook. We get into a dopamine induced loop... dopamine starts us seeking, then we get rewarded for the seeking which makes us seek more. It becomes harder and harder to stop looking at email, stop texting, stop checking our cell phones to see if we have a message or a new text.

Anticipation is better than getting - Brain scan research shows that our brains show more stimulation and activity when we ANTICIPATE a reward than when we get one. Research on rats shows that if you destroy dopamine neurons, rats can walk, chew, and swallow, but will starve to death even when food is right next to them. They have lost the desire to go get the food.

More, more, more - Although wanting and liking are related, research also shows that the dopamine system doesn't have satiety built in. It is possible for the dopamine system to keep saying "more more more", seeking even when we have found the information. During that google exploration we know that we have the answer to the question we originally asked, and yet we find ourselves looking for more information and more and more.

I think this shouldn't stop us from seeking information and following our curiousity, but it's good to be aware of this seeking-addiction and to balance it by applying the knowledge we learned before absorbing more, more, and more, and by giving something back and sharing our own information etc. The intent of sharing can also help to break that "endless seeking cycle", because if we have the urge to share what we found, we naturally stop at some point in order to share!

But leaning new skill sets might not be all that much help or service to others now that I think about it. Interesting to consider. Thank you again luc for that clue to measure against my aim and see if there’s a match or not. I'm not saying that learning a new skill set would NOT be serving others. Maybe so. But, if so, then my intention would need to be aligned with serving others as the main aim -- and the fun part may or may not be a happy consequence. But, if the fun part becomes my aim, and the serving others is just a happy consequence, I've got it all backwards. Is this what you're talking about luc?

What about combining the fun part with being of service? In my experience, they make for a great combination! For example, if I read an article, do some research, or learn a new skill, I try to think about ways I can share what I found, ways to use it to help others, make the world a better place and so on. This is a great motivation and brings the information "to life", so to speak. Besides, I found that I'm so much better at what I do if I keep the intent of sharing and helping in mind. Plus, it makes everything so much more fun! At least, that has been my experience.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

luc — Very good points, luc. Thanks so much for bringing them to my attention. I will keep this in mind as I continue reading & learning. I think I DID fall into the trap you mention. I wouldn’t have called it ‘entertaining’ so much as satisfying my curiosity and desire to know more about that subject — but I suspect my approach falls under the same umbrella as being entertained, yes? So, thanks again for giving me a little heads-up so I can keep my intentions more clean and focused on the main point here — to help others.

I think following your curiosity is totally fine, 13TT. But as you said, it's good practice to watch out not to fall into "consumption mode" - it's about finding a balance between absorbing information and giving back, for example in the form of sharing what you have learned or helping others with feedback and your own experiences. Also, keep in mind that "absorbing information" can become quite addictive, as laid out in this article on sott:

Dopamine Makes You Addicted To Seeking Information:
[. . .] Excerpt from SOTT article

OMG! That dopamine induced loop information SOTT article you quoted pretty much describes the info junkie phenomena to a ’T’. And even though I don’t do the social media thing, I definitely get caught up in the SOTT and FORUM information seeking loop.

But again, my intentions fall into that ‘consumption’ scenario you pointed out. Yes, I’m curious. And yes, I want to learn and find out stuff and know what’s going on in our world and find out what others’ views are about it all. And yes, I can use the learning activity in order to do the Work on noticing and self-observation of all my little i’s that arise in response or reaction to what I read & learn. And yes, I can practice the technique outlined in the thread, Depression as a Stepping Stone (to Soul Growth), whenever emotions get triggered by the info I find out. And yes, I can pass on specific information & articles to other people in my life who have already expressed an interest in learning about certain subjects or issues which pertain to their lives on a personal and local level. And yes, that’s all well and good.

But . . . and here comes the Big But . . . I can see that, as you point out below, it can become an endless seeking cycle. It’s all inflow, inflow, inflow. Like eating and gobbling up information for the head (instead of food for the body). There’s a subtle (or maybe not so subtle) ‘glutony’ aspect to all this gobbling.

The point that most struck me from all your responses was this . . . to keep the INTENT OF HELPING IN MIND. And that’s what I was missing. I was reading & learning and satisfying my own curiosity for my own purposes. My ‘intent’ was totally self-serving. Sure. All that reading and learning might result in serving others, but that was just a nice consequence that made me happy. So it was still all about moi. And serving moi. IOW, my ‘intent’ was self-serving as opposed to serving others. And I’m seeing that now . . . and feeling it on a visceral level.

So that’s what’s shifted. The realization that I’ve been going at this all backwards. And for that new understanding, I have all of you to thank for simply pointing it out to me in the kindest way possible. And even more importantly, pointing it out at the most perfect timing so that I could actually grok it in a deep way — not just as an intellectual exercise.

I think this shouldn't stop us from seeking information and following our curiousity, but it's good to be aware of this seeking-addiction and to balance it by applying the knowledge we learned before absorbing more, more, and more, and by giving something back and sharing our own information etc. The intent of sharing can also help to break that "endless seeking cycle", because if we have the urge to share what we found, we naturally stop at some point in order to share!

EXACTLY . . . EXACTLY . . . EXACTLY. Very well said. I can totally see that happening. The need for balancing the inflow and outflow of energy. Absorbing info and sharing it need to be balanced. And it DOES happen naturally, because it’s as if I became satiated and so ‘full’ from all the inflow, I have to reverse the flows and flow outwardly (radiate) give something back or I feel all jammed up and the energy feels stuck and stagnant and, frankly, totally uncomfortable. I feel as if I’d probably get physically ill, if I didn’t reverse this flow pretty darn soon.

But leaning new skill sets might not be all that much help or service to others now that I think about it. Interesting to consider. Thank you again luc for that clue to measure against my aim and see if there’s a match or not. I'm not saying that learning a new skill set would NOT be serving others. Maybe so. But, if so, then my intention would need to be aligned with serving others as the main aim -- and the fun part may or may not be a happy consequence. But, if the fun part becomes my aim, and the serving others is just a happy consequence, I've got it all backwards. Is this what you're talking about luc?

What about combining the fun part with being of service? In my experience, they make for a great combination! For example, if I read an article, do some research, or learn a new skill, I try to think about ways I can share what I found, ways to use it to help others, make the world a better place and so on. This is a great motivation and brings the information "to life", so to speak. Besides, I found that I'm so much better at what I do if I keep the intent of sharing and helping in mind. Plus, it makes everything so much more fun! At least, that has been my experience.

LOLOL :) Point to ponder. Of course you’re right. Of course we can combine fun with being of service. :) Thanks for pointing out what should have been obvious to me. I agree. We shouldn’t need to sacrifice one for the other. They’re perfect partners.

I’m noticing that switching from self-service intentions to other-service intentions is more fun and actually DOES create a more joyful feeling within. Sometimes I can barely believe that I can keep missing not only the obvious, but discounting my own past experiences. By that I mean, that of course I always feel more joy when giving than when receiving. And of course I wasn’t giving to others in any attempt to feel more joyful. The joy was just an accidental consequence of giving to others. Feeling joy wasn’t ever my intended purpose for giving. How did I forget that? How come I didn’t think that was relevant or worth examining or important enough to consider adopting as a mode of operating?

Oh, oh. I think there are some Little i’s involved when attempting to answer those questions. Oh goody! More Work to do. I really do sometimes feel as if I’m cheating because this feeling of happy anticipation arises whenever the prospect of seeing another door of opportunity open for me to DO more of the Work and struggle with my false personality features. Instead of resistance, I feel energized and raring to go. This is definitely a new experience for me. I used to feel as if I had to force myself . . . literally drag myself . . . to Do any Work on myself. Now, it’s like I can hardly wait.

Oh, oh again. This attitude may be what the I-Ching cautions against. It’s as if the Ego self begins to see the need for Doing the Work and joins in with exuberant enthusiasm, grabing the ball and running towards the Goal. And, of course, running in the wrong direction towards the wrong goal post. I need to check this out . . . and check myself if necessary . . . because this could just be another indication of some other Little i (ego id) jumping on the bandwagon and interferring and sidetracking, derailing, and making a detour. I should be a bit more cautious about getting so enthusastic I suspect. Rein in the horses, so to speak, yes? Or they’re going to start galloping over the cliff if I don’t grab onto the reins and bring them under some control. OK. The reins are back in the coach-woman’s hands again & the horses seem more calm and awaiting direction from the driver now. Good thing too. Given enough time, we could have galloped straight into a ditch. And wouldn’t that have been a mess to untangle.


Well, at least those are my thoughts for now about all that. Do you have any input or feedback yourself about that self-assessment? Or anyone else who sees more objectively all that I'm seeing through my own little filters?

Thanks again for all your valuable feedback. All of you. Every response helps me get a clearer picture of objective reality and keeps me staying on the path so I don’t topple over the edge. :)

 

[luc]


Well, at least those are my thoughts for now about all that. Do you have any input or feedback yourself about that self-assessment? Or anyone else who sees more objectively all that I'm seeing through my own little filters?

I think your post is full of great insights, 13 Twirling Triskeles! So:

EXACTLY . . . EXACTLY . . . EXACTLY. Very well said. I can totally see that happening. The need for balancing the inflow and outflow of energy. Absorbing info and sharing it need to be balanced. And it DOES happen naturally, because it’s as if I became satiated and so ‘full’ from all the inflow, I have to reverse the flows and flow outwardly (radiate) give something back or I feel all jammed up and the energy feels stuck and stagnant and, frankly, totally uncomfortable. I feel as if I’d probably get physically ill, if I didn’t reverse this flow pretty darn soon.

That's exactly how I feel in such situations as well. If I then don't make an effort to DO something, I tend to slip into dissociation, get irritated, let my awareness slip and so on. BTW, what helps me sometimes if I don't find the strength to tackle a project that requires a lot of energy, is just doing something useful - like cleaning the house, washing the dishes, chopping some wood, calling a family member to check on them etc. This is also a form of giving back something to life, I think.

But leaning new skill sets might not be all that much help or service to others now that I think about it. Interesting to consider. Thank you again luc for that clue to measure against my aim and see if there’s a match or not. I'm not saying that learning a new skill set would NOT be serving others. Maybe so. But, if so, then my intention would need to be aligned with serving others as the main aim -- and the fun part may or may not be a happy consequence. But, if the fun part becomes my aim, and the serving others is just a happy consequence, I've got it all backwards. Is this what you're talking about luc?

I think that's right - in my experience, I get the best results when I keep the intention to help in mind and not focus on the "fun part" - as you said, usually the fun comes without us even expecting it! However, I think it doesn't make sense to obsess over such thoughts, what counts is that we do something, that we "create movement", as the Cs said. Whatever gets the job done! Everything else will come naturally, osit.

Oh, oh. I think there are some Little i’s involved when attempting to answer those questions. Oh goody! More Work to do. I really do sometimes feel as if I’m cheating because this feeling of happy anticipation arises whenever the prospect of seeing another door of opportunity open for me to DO more of the Work and struggle with my false personality features. Instead of resistance, I feel energized and raring to go. This is definitely a new experience for me. I used to feel as if I had to force myself . . . literally drag myself . . . to Do any Work on myself. Now, it’s like I can hardly wait.

Oh, oh again. This attitude may be what the I-Ching cautions against. It’s as if the Ego self begins to see the need for Doing the Work and joins in with exuberant enthusiasm, grabing the ball and running towards the Goal. And, of course, running in the wrong direction towards the wrong goal post. I need to check this out . . . and check myself if necessary . . . because this could just be another indication of some other Little i (ego id) jumping on the bandwagon and interferring and sidetracking, derailing, and making a detour. I should be a bit more cautious about getting so enthusastic I suspect. Rein in the horses, so to speak, yes? Or they’re going to start galloping over the cliff if I don’t grab onto the reins and bring them under some control. OK. The reins are back in the coach-woman’s hands again & the horses seem more calm and awaiting direction from the driver now. Good thing too. Given enough time, we could have galloped straight into a ditch. And wouldn’t that have been a mess to untangle.

Great insights I think - just being able to observe these changing mindsets and so on is a HUGE step in the right direction. I can totally relate to what you wrote about feeling that "great enthusiasm", only to fall back to stagnation shortly after, but I think just the knowledge that this is the case can help us greatly to feel more comfortable - that's just how our crazy minds work!

As for the bolded part, I think it's important to realize just how extremely cunning our predator's mind can be, to the point that we can never quite trust our thinking. The remedy is to have an Aim, because it provides a point of reference against which we can measure our thoughts. In other words, if your Aim is to "give back more energy", then everything that supports this Aim is good, everything else is bad, as Gurdjieff said. For example, if you feel this enthusiasm, it's good! Make the most out of it, rock on! Yes, you know that it won't last forever, that a different little I will get the stage at some point, but so what? The enthusiasm is there now, so run with it and make that goal!

Your worries that you might run in the opposite direction towards the "wrong goal post" sounds like a deception of the predator's mind: it keeps you from using your enthusiasm to get things moving. I'd say forget this "wrong goal post" thought! Whatever gets the job done, whatever gets you closer to your Aim...

FWIW, hope this is useful.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Thank you luc for your latest reply. And here's my response. :)

EXACTLY . . . EXACTLY . . . EXACTLY. Very well said. I can totally see that happening. The need for balancing the inflow and outflow of energy. Absorbing info and sharing it need to be balanced. And it DOES happen naturally, because it’s as if I became satiated and so ‘full’ from all the inflow, I have to reverse the flows and flow outwardly (radiate) give something back or I feel all jammed up and the energy feels stuck and stagnant and, frankly, totally uncomfortable. I feel as if I’d probably get physically ill, if I didn’t reverse this flow pretty darn soon.

That’s exactly how I feel in such situations as well. If I then don't make an effort to DO something, I tend to slip into dissociation, get irritated, let my awareness slip and so on. BTW, what helps me sometimes if I don't find the strength to tackle a project that requires a lot of energy, is just doing something useful - like cleaning the house, washing the dishes, chopping some wood, calling a family member to check on them etc. This is also a form of giving back something to life, I think.

Precisely! Long ago I discovered that if I just start DOING one tiny small task, I would feel MORE energized by expending energy, which inspired me to DO even more. So, for instance, I’d decide to clean the bathroom sink. Then I felt enough energy and inspiration to continue & pretty soon, the entire bathroom would be sparkling. And I felt enough energy to do even more. Same with me about giving attention/energy to others — as you said above. However, I hadn’t considered that being a form of giving back something to life. But it makes total sense now that you mentioned it. So thank you for that little reminder. :)

But leaning new skill sets might not be all that much help or service to others now that I think about it. Interesting to consider. Thank you again luc for that clue to measure against my aim and see if there’s a match or not. I'm not saying that learning a new skill set would NOT be serving others. Maybe so. But, if so, then my intention would need to be aligned with serving others as the main aim -- and the fun part may or may not be a happy consequence. But, if the fun part becomes my aim, and the serving others is just a happy consequence, I've got it all backwards. Is this what you're talking about luc?

I think that's right - in my experience, I get the best results when I keep the intention to help in mind and not focus on the "fun part" - as you said, usually the fun comes without us even expecting it! However, I think it doesn't make sense to obsess over such thoughts, what counts is that we do something, that we "create movement", as the Cs said. Whatever gets the job done! Everything else will come naturally, osit.

Agreed. Poof the obsession aspect. Just keep it simple. Remember the aim. Remember the intention. And those reminders help create the inspiration and energy to DO. I think this will be lots easier than I initially thought. Yay!

Oh, oh. I think there are some Little i’s involved when attempting to answer those questions. Oh goody! More Work to do. I really do sometimes feel as if I’m cheating because this feeling of happy anticipation arises whenever the prospect of seeing another door of opportunity open for me to DO more of the Work and struggle with my false personality features. Instead of resistance, I feel energized and raring to go. This is definitely a new experience for me. I used to feel as if I had to force myself . . . literally drag myself . . . to Do any Work on myself. Now, it’s like I can hardly wait.

Oh, oh again. This attitude may be what the I-Ching cautions against. It’s as if the Ego self begins to see the need for Doing the Work and joins in with exuberant enthusiasm, grabing the ball and running towards the Goal. And, of course, running in the wrong direction towards the wrong goal post. I need to check this out . . . and check myself if necessary . . . because this could just be another indication of some other Little i (ego id) jumping on the bandwagon and interferring and sidetracking, derailing, and making a detour. I should be a bit more cautious about getting so enthusastic I suspect. Rein in the horses, so to speak, yes? Or they’re going to start galloping over the cliff if I don’t grab onto the reins and bring them under some control. OK. The reins are back in the coach-woman’s hands again & the horses seem more calm and awaiting direction from the driver now. Good thing too. Given enough time, we could have galloped straight into a ditch. And wouldn’t that have been a mess to untangle.

Great insights I think - just being able to observe these changing mindsets and so on is a HUGE step in the right direction. I can totally relate to what you wrote about feeling that "great enthusiasm", only to fall back to stagnation shortly after, but I think just the knowledge that this is the case can help us greatly to feel more comfortable - that's just how our crazy minds work!

I’m finding these basic practices of continuously and constantly remaining alert and aware and determined to notice & observe all these little i’s - immediately noticing whenever I become identified with any little i and immediately stop identifying with it - using that technique of feeling my negative emotions without letting my intellectual center usurp the emotions are the most valuable learnings I’ve ever encountered. There’s not enough gold in all of creation that could balance the benefits I’ve experienced by just doing these first tiny little steps. And, I finally SEE the importance of practicing them. I FEEL the importance of practicing them.

Regarding the little i’s — I’ve started keeping a running journal of all the little i’s that I notice. They each have titles, attributes, characteristics, tones of voice, viewpoints, and personalities. Some need only a couple of lines to list all their features. Some require a long paragraph. So far, there are 26 of these little guyz - & still counting. I call it ‘The Parade of My Little i’s’. :) It’s quite amazing to actually experience being separate from them and able to observe them as not really Me. It’s such a relief to not be merged with them. Whew! :)

As for the bolded part, I think it's important to realize just how extremely cunning our predator's mind can be, to the point that we can never quite trust our thinking. The remedy is to have an Aim, because it provides a point of reference against which we can measure our thoughts. In other words, if your Aim is to "give back more energy", then everything that supports this Aim is good, everything else is bad, as Gurdjieff said. For example, if you feel this enthusiasm, it's good! Make the most out of it, rock on! Yes, you know that it won't last forever, that a different little I will get the stage at some point, but so what? The enthusiasm is there now, so run with it and make that goal!

I can never quite trust my thinking. Absolutely true! Just exactly what I’m coming to realize more and more — because of the feedback I’ve been receiving from other Forum members. Now I See that I can’t possibly see myself objectively . . . that I really DO need to rely upon others to show me a mirror . . . and I’m also noticing that I’m feeling a tremendous urge/need - almost a compulsion - to find out how others and the DCM-Universe see me. Is it because I want to see myself as others & DCM-Universe see me? And because I can’t observe myself because I can't locate my Self outside my Self? So I need outside observers to reveal me to myself because they are located outside me and can therefore view me more accurately & objectively? Ouch! That was a terribly convoluted & awkward sentence.

Oooops! As I typed the above paragraph, I just noticed that I had that all backwards too. I thought I wanted others & DCM-Universe to see me as I saw myself. That they would all agree with me and concur with my own self-evaluation. But now it feels totally reversed. I want to align with DCM — rather than demanding that DCM align with me. That’s definitely a shift.

Oh gosh. There’s so much ‘meat’ in that previous quote of yours, luc, I feel like I need to break it down into smaller portions.

The remedy for never quite trusting our thinking is to have an Aim. Because it provides a point of reference against which we can measure our thoughts.

Outstanding! I feel as if I should write this out on a huge piece of cloth and put it up on my wall as a reminder. It just makes the trust issue totally resolve. That’s major.

Oh! So, I can have more than one Aim? I didn’t know that! And what’s important is for me to actually identify and name my Aim so that I can use that declared Aim as my reference point which will determine whether what I do is ‘good’ or not good?

Really?!!!! OMG! It's that simple? Looks as if there's another Little i to add to my Parade of i's . . . the Complicating i.

Your worries that you might run in the opposite direction towards the "wrong goal post" sounds like a deception of the predator's mind: it keeps you from using your enthusiasm to get things moving. I'd say forget this "wrong goal post" thought! Whatever gets the job done, whatever gets you closer to your Aim…

OK — I just examined that ‘wrong goal post’ statement I made previously. First of all, I think you’re right. That this clever little inner predator did exactly what you said — deceived me. Jeeesh, is he ever good as this deception stuff. I’m in awe! That was just another little predatory i which ran towards the wrong goal post — and convinced me that it was me doing that. Duped again! LOL Soooooo subtle, yes? Another reason for me to re-read that Fire Within book by Castaneda that Buddy recommended I do. To review the stalking protocol . . . for stalking the inner predator. Perfect timing!


Boy is this getting fun! Maybe I have the totally wrong attitude here, but I am so thoroughly enjoying this Seeing process. And I actually feel joy at Seeing how I’ve been duped again. I can’t help laughing out loud at my own ‘falling-for-it’. It’s like having a worthy opponent. And it really does feel like a game. But believe me, I also know it’s dead serious too. And I can’t adopt some self-deceptive overly confident attitude - because that’s just the gap in the armour that it seeks to use against me. Oh what a cunning web it weaves as it practices to deceive.


So, ‘deception’ is its most effective weapon? And truth is my most effective stance? I can’t even call it a ‘defense’. I don’t feel as if I’m defending myself. I’m just standing my ground, unmoving, like a stone — watching it flail about. And if deception no longer works, I wonder what other little tricks this trickster has up its sleeve? Oh, never mind that. I need to concentrate on what’s right in front of me to do now. I was getting ahead of myself there. :)

FWIW, hope this is useful.

Immensely useful!!! Thank you again sooooo much. I am in your debt and hope I can return the favor in the future. Thank you luc. For that matter, thank you everybody for your help. Words of gratitude are poor substitutes - yet they have to suffice. On second thought, no they do not have to suffice. And here’s why —

There was an article on SOTT a few weeks back — about apologizing. And the point of that article was that an apology was only the first step. It’s not enough. There has to be action involved also. Some doingness — like making amends. And I was thinking about this gratitude thing. That expressing gratitude feels like making an apology. It’s not really enough. There needs to be an action that backs up the gratitude in order to make it mean something. And that’s where the giving back comes in, yes? It makes the gratitude real — not just words. It’s like Laura’s said — many times — It’s not what we say, it’s what we do that counts. So, I’m getting that viscerally now. It’s feeling solid - like a Truth Stone.

Ciao! :) Edit for grammar.

 

[luc]

Regarding the little i’s — I’ve started keeping a running journal of all the little i’s that I notice. They each have titles, attributes, characteristics, tones of voice, viewpoints, and personalities. Some need only a couple of lines to list all their features. Some require a long paragraph. So far, there are 26 of these little guyz - & still counting. I call it ‘The Parade of My Little i’s’. :) It’s quite amazing to actually experience being separate from them and able to observe them as not really Me. It’s such a relief to not be merged with them. Whew! :)

Very interesting! If you like, maybe you could share some of your progress/findings in the Working with little I's thread? Just if/what you are comfortable with of course ;)

Immensely useful!!! Thank you again sooooo much. I am in your debt and hope I can return the favor in the future. Thank you luc. For that matter, thank you everybody for your help. Words of gratitude are poor substitutes - yet they have to suffice. On second thought, no they do not have to suffice. And here’s why —

No need to thank me - I found the thoughts and feelings you shared here very inspiring, so I think you already gave back more than you think - to me and others reading this! Keep it up!

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Regarding the little i’s — I’ve started keeping a running journal of all the little i’s that I notice. They each have titles, attributes, characteristics, tones of voice, viewpoints, and personalities. Some need only a couple of lines to list all their features. Some require a long paragraph. So far, there are 26 of these little guyz - & still counting. I call it ‘The Parade of My Little i’s’. :) It’s quite amazing to actually experience being separate from them and able to observe them as not really Me. It’s such a relief to not be merged with them. Whew! :)

Very interesting! If you like, maybe you could share some of your progress/findings in the Working with little I's thread? Just if/what you are comfortable with of course ;)

Thank you so much luc. That thread is fascinating and informative. I'm thoroughly enjoying reading it. When I've finished reading the entire thread, I'm sure I'll wish to add my little bit. I definitely like how you've used the analogy of the house with the servants. The I-Ching likens it to an army needing a Sergeant at arms in charge. It could be a group of children as well. Or an orchestra & conductor. Whatever analogy can apply and that we can use to Work with those little i's is helpful.

Sorry it's taken so long for me to reply here . . . you know the drill -- obyvatel tasks galore . . . including all the accompanying hoopla connected with honoring 3 major birthdays for friends & family. Much fun and enjoyable . . . and lots of my time required too.

Immensely useful!!! Thank you again sooooo much. I am in your debt and hope I can return the favor in the future. Thank you luc. For that matter, thank you everybody for your help. Words of gratitude are poor substitutes - yet they have to suffice. On second thought, no they do not have to suffice. And here’s why —

No need to thank me - I found the thoughts and feelings you shared here very inspiring, so I think you already gave back more than you think - to me and others reading this! Keep it up!

Yes I do. Need to thank you I mean. I've found your insights very helpful and inspiring as well. And I'm more eager than ever to find ways to give back.

BTW . . . I'm also reading your new thread re Thought Loops. Another great post and really thoughtful helpful replies as well.

It's amazing that STS can't see how well this whole STO thing really works for everyone's benefit -- for theirs too if they could only grasp the concept. One only has to try it to see how it creates a beautiful spiral of more and more energy. It actually seems totally counter-productive to stay stuck in a closed loop circle -- like a serpent eating its own tail. The spiral seems to project and radiate energy forwards while the serpent just continues to eat energy that's been produced in the past. I don't know. It just doesn't seem like a very smart use of energy.

Oh wait a minute. STS doesn't actually create any energy themselves? They just eat energy created by others? OMG . . . no wonder they're like shark machines . . . searching & seeking prey for eating. You know what? It IS a foreign concept. I just cannot wrap my little wits around that frequency. Part of my nature has been to try to see things from others' points of view . . . i.e., to place myself in someone else's shoes. But I see now that I cannot do that with certain points of view or frequencies. OK then. I can accept that. I'm just now realizing that I'm unable to do that.

OK luc -- thank you again for helping me see outside the box & expanding my options and views on several points in this thread. And giving me some concrete, practical, down-to-earth pointers (like having an aim and intent), and for helping me to clear up several confusions and questions I had so that I feel more confident about proceeding with the Work and contributing and serving others. YES!!

Now I'm off to read some more of those 2 threads. But I am now keeping in mind an intent (aim) that even my reading is for the purpose of helping & serving others. Just remembering that alone makes me feel lighter and more filled with energy and inspiration. That's what I mean about that spiral. Just thinking that thought about doing something with the intention of serving others seems to create huge amounts of energy that seems to leap forward and creates a path for me to follow. Weird, huh? :)

Cheers!