On my mind...In my dreams

[ki77en]

This is s/thing that I have worked on/with for some time, so I figured I'd place it here to see what new aspects I can gain that may help me through this.

Like so many others on this forum, I have spent time in reading and looking up the references given in the Wave. I have read some vast amounts of resources that described Gurdjieff's teachings, and have worked on analyzing alot of those same aspects about myself.

"We are here to learn" resonates w/ everything in my being. I agree. Everything happened in a sequence of events over the last year and a half - from hanging around on ATS (imagine that, lol), to meeting another advocate of the Wave there, to reading the Wave itself while simultaneously going through a dissolution. Some of the greatest changes of my life have taken place over this course in time, but there is one that continues to bother/baffle me as no analyzation has helped.

First of all - and I do think this relates to my 'problem' - I have realized that programming is hard to break down. You can feel it when you KNOW s/thing, but have problems ACCEPTING what you know. (E.g. - you can understand that what we have come to know as love is an ego-based illusion, but you really don't want to let go of that IDEA of love.) So it seems that acceptance is the first 'problem'.

Now, down to the source - if you will.

My ex has went on w/ his life - from meeting up w/ his "first love" two months after our dissolution, to moving in w/ her this year. (Talk about 'coincidence', heheh). During last summer, I immersed myself in studies while trying to deal w/ the fact that after 7yrs, he was finally gone. I analyzed as much as I could, w/ as much information as I could. It helped some, but I was plagued by nightmares of him and would wake up every morning crying. I got a job, and soon became immersed in work which also gave me the time to THINK about everything I had learned and studied and to try to piece it together in the most objective way possible. I think I became more distracted than anything, and a few months ago, the dreams returned. They aren't the same, though. It's like lving out pieces of THEIR life w/ them. (And yes, his girlfriend is usually in the dreams.) I don't wake up crying, but they do bother me.

About a month ago, I decided that I had done everything else short of FEELING the experience. I let go, in a sense, of trying so hard TO let go. I allowed myself to feel, even if it ended in crying. I allowed myself to miss him as much as I did last summer; And I allowed myself to remember our good times. I don't purposely think of him, but he always seems to be there, in some sense.

Through my internal searching, I think there is a part of me that does NOT want to let go of that little ray of hope that maybe s/day, we will be together again. A bigger part of me - a bigger "I" - realizes that the things that have happened (from him reuniting w/ his "first love" and so on) are w/out a doubt, a sign that we are not meant to be. And because of this self realization, I know that I must let go, and go on.

But how? Why is this so hard to let go of? Why does it feel like I'm actually fighting that part of me that WON'T let go?? I realize there are many possible answers to this, but none that have actually made sense to the point of working. This answer must lie s/where, and I am to the point of exhaustion from searching for it. I hope my decision to express myself HERE will allow me to see s/thing I haven't formerly examined or accepted - and it just *may* be that acceptance IS the key, but going back to the beginning of this, how does one learn to accept what IS?

I welcome any and all responses, and...Thank You.

 

[Mr. Premise]

Welcome, Ki77en.

It seems like you have taken advantage of the great opportunity something like a divorce offers for learning! Congratulations! Many people reject the opportunity and regress.

Your dreams and your pace of separating seem to be right on schedule and progressing. I don't think there needs to any deep mysterious reason for some lines of attachment to remain. It would be more surprising if there weren't.

This answer must lie s/where, and I am to the point of exhaustion from searching for it. I hope my decision to express myself HERE will allow me to see s/thing I haven't formerly examined or accepted - and it just *may* be that acceptance IS the key, but going back to the beginning of this, how does one learn to accept what IS?

Now I have a very silly suggestion that might actually help. You wrote "I think there is a part of me that does NOT want to let go of that little ray of hope that maybe s/day, we will be together again." Maybe you could listen to Diana Ross and the Supremes' song "Someday We'll be Together" repeatedly until you are totally sick of it. It might leach out the remaining emotions and help you get some ironic distance from those emotions at the same time.

I am definitely not making light of this, though.

 

[Jacques]

Hi Ki77en,

Well, it does remember something to me. I have been married 19 years, 3 children and i found extremely difficult to live a divorce.

I took me quite a while to be in peace, in harmony and in love with me.

As DonaldJHunt said : "It is a great opportunity for learning" but, i must admit not an easy one.

With the times, i now can say it is one of the best thing that has happended to me.

I may recommend to you a book written by Jean Monbourquette "Aimer, perdre et grandir" (I guess in english if it has been translated would be something like "Love, lost and growth"). In the book there is an excellent exercice which helped me very much. To be able to let the other go, you must recuperate what belongs to you, thank the other for what it has given to you and after that cut symbollically the bond with the other. You can do that through a meditation.

And for the suggestion of DonaldJHunt ; "Now I have a very silly suggestion that might actually help. You wrote "I think there is a part of me that does NOT want to let go of that little ray of hope that maybe s/day, we will be together again." Maybe you could listen to Diana Ross and the Supremes' song "Someday We'll be Together" repeatedly until you are totally sick of it. It might leach out the remaining emotions and help you get some ironic distance from those emotions at the same time. " As far as i am concern, it is not silly. I did it with an another song and it helped me quite a lot too. Id did help to leach out the remaining emotion.

I wish you from my heart, peace, harmony and love in you and with you.

P.S. Is there someone who can tell me how to make the quote as i can see in the others messages. As soon as i begin to write the message, i do not know how to do it. Thanks a lot

 

[domi]

I may recommend to you a book written by Jean Monbourquette "Aimer, perdre et grandir" (I guess in english if it has been translated would be something like "Love, lost and growth").

Literally though it would be: Loving, Losing and Growing.

A search on Amazon reveals that the translated version has the following title (osit):

How to Love Again: Moving from Grief to Growth
Author: John Monbourquette

P.S. Is there someone who can tell me how to make the quote as i can see in the others messages. As soon as i begin to write the message, i do not know how to do it. Thanks a lot

See http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/help.php

Dominique

 

[Jacques]

Bonjour Dominique,

See http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/help.php

Dominique

Thank you for the hints and thank you for the search for the book.

 

[ki77en]

Ya know, Donald, that suggestion of the song makes alot of sense. It seems that 'silly' things can s/times make more sense than logical because they are, in fact, more logical than what we have been taught. I know what song you are referring to, though, and I may have to decline on that one. (Any reason for that song in particular?) There are many newer songs that speak of how I feel, and I'll have to think of just ONE that I could listen to over and over until I no longer want to hear it. (This would be great at work - I have an MP3 player to drown out the ignorance that is allowed to be blared on some of the stations that we are 'allowed' to listen to.)

Namaste - I have strayed from meditation, although I'm not sure why. Possibly, it is because I would rather think than let things be, and that seems to be my downfall - in a sense. I cannot say that it was a perfect marriage, or that I didn't play a crucial part in how it ended, or that I didn't even want it, AT THAT TIME. So remembering ME, and loving me, could also be a part of this dilemna. (There are so many parts...so many "i's"...) And I have thought of certain rituals, being quite partial to Shamanism for some time (before the Wave, actually). I guess it wouldn't hurt to try a few things - more in a non-ritualistic fashion; But anything to try and place my mind at ease.

I was told, earlier today after I had written this, that I was so busy thinking of my past that I wasn't living in the "now" - and that makes sense. But my reply was - how do we learn from our past other than to THINK of it? It hasn't consumed me as there is just too much going on in the "now" to let it. I just want to let go, and "get over it". I realize that this isn't the easiest process, but it is too present in my mind to just dismiss it and NOT think about it. Even when I don't think about it during the day, there must be some part of my subconscious that still holds on because it will come out in my dreams. This is where I draw the line of "letting it be" and trying to find a solution. To me, it almost seems a little ridiculous that I haven't been able to let go moreso than I have. ("Ridiculous" - or the feeling of - is probably a part of my ego, I realize.)

I often wonder how Laura made it through her divorce, as I'm sure it was quite hard for her, as well. Did she have the same thoughts/feelings of me that seemed neverending? Did it make it, at all, easier for her knowing that she became more important - more INFLUENTIAL - than she had ever possibly dreamed? If our emotions are present as tools to help us learn, then why does it s/times feel as if you aren't getting anywhere (which is possibly the case) when you try to understand the emotions involved in a loss, or a change?

Thank you...for your suggestions and replies. It is encouraging. Also...Thank You for the Welcome.

 

[Guest]

Here are some thoughts here, although I am not sure if they will be helpful:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1591.msg9636#msg9636

 

[manitoban]

Hi Ki77en,

I just wanted to add here, that I've been through a divorce too, and even though I was the instigator, so to speak, it still took me several years to understand and accept what had happened. This is just a thought, but it may be that you still have some grieving to do, not only for the loss of your marriage and partner, but also the loss of the dream of the future that you had. Everybody's different, but you may need to patient with yourself, as these things just take as long as they take. I really do wish you all the best, I know what a hard time this can be.

About a month ago, I decided that I had done everything else short of FEELING the experience. I let go, in a sense, of trying so hard TO let go. I allowed myself to feel, even if it ended in crying. I allowed myself to miss him as much as I did last summer; And I allowed myself to remember our good times. I don't purposely think of him, but he always seems to be there, in some sense.

 

[ki77en]

That was well written, Eso. Very informative. It actually reminds me of two blogs that I wrote, in different times over the last several months. Here is the first, when I was trying to understand the illusionary aspect of what we think of love:

Tuesday, May 24, 2005


Illusions
Current mood: awake

Most of what we have come to know as the 'norm' is an illusion. Our reality is merely a description of the world given to us by those who were around us when we were babies and children. How can so many people believe that the world is only what we see? Or, maybe I should be asking why so many just don't care?

Though I do not believe in the proverbial "heaven" or "hell" - I have read of a possible description of a "hell" that most won't even consider. The world is in the middle of a battle, and the human race is the playing field. There are many who will suffer w/out ever knowing the reasons - never daring to explore the possibilities. It will only be in post-'death' that they know that they must return to learn the lessons they failed to even acknowledge in the former life.

Illusions......religion...time............love. Oh yes - "love" is one of the grandest illusions (besides 'time'). I have met many who can accept that time is a man-made concept; But "love"? Yes. We have made "love" into THE grand expression. From this expression, it is now such an illusion that it could be (and probably is s/where) considered it's own religion. People sing, search, and kill for what we call "love". You're either 'in love' or searching for it. Even our dreams or career choices are pursued out of "love".

It is out of the latter pursuits that we can glimpse the true nature of 'love'. When seeking to find it in another and mourning over it when you don't have it, "love" becomes s/thing other than what it was, originally. We seek to own others, and attach ourselves to them. This person "loves" me or I "love" that person so I'm going to ~hold on~.........i.e. attach. But when it is used for such as achieving our goals or following our dreams and making them manifest, you can clearly see that 'love' is s/thing different. It takes knowledge to pursue the job of your dreams. Knowledge of your 'chosen field' or knowledge of a particular subject. When you UTILIZE that knowledge, it becomes 'love'.

Knowledge is light. Light is in everything we know. What we don't know, remains in the 'dark' until knowledge is acquired of it, in which you have "shed some light" on the subject. Light is 'love'. Love is the utilization of the light that is knowledge.

I know there will be many who will not hear my words or understand them. They are too busy being caught up in their own beliefs of how they feel the world and this or that should be that they will never know until it is too late. (And "too late" is not the result of a time-based concept....it does relate to realization AFTER the fact, situation, or event has transposed, which is usually useless). Though I do feel empathy for them, I realize that it is ok. We will do WHAT we will do. It is only a matter of looking objectively at our environments; Of our interactions w/ others - To witness the 'real' and let go of the subjective illusions that seem to govern our lives.

As the Keymaker states it in Matrix Reloaded: "We do, ONLY what we're meant to do".

To each his or her own and to thine own self...be true.

This is dated a few weeks after my dissolution, when I was already well on my path of study. It also shows the difference between how immersed I was IN the analyzation then in comparison to now:

Saturday, May 06, 2006


My heart: Exposed
Current mood: uncomfortable

I've come to look at my blogs as an online journal, of sorts, full of research, feelings and my own opinions. I do not expect them to be read, but it's nice when s/one chooses to do such. The one thing I haven't really expressed in any of them, is my love.

There are many things I understand, and of course, there are many I don't. The point in this blog is to help you identify the fact that there are things that you can understand, but still fight due to the inert programming w/in us all. In other words....you refuse to accept what is. That is one of the problems w/ our systems of belief. We choose to believe in things which have no merit JUST so we don't have to accept what is.

So here is my point of refusal to accept what is, and it is one I have already written of and described as it is - an illusion. It is love, and all that we have made it to be. If one were to read about historical icons whom have changed the world, they would note the passion, the desire, the dedication and purity to which they pursued their dreams. That is love. There is absolutely NO difference in love. If you love s/thing, you know it. Try to understand that, if you will, as I continue.

You see, a scientist can understand the many theories proposed to him, and it is based on his belief that will either cause him to seek passionately to prove or disprove it. Besides the main contraversies of religion, politics, and moral ethics/values, there is one that plagues us all w/ riddle...and simplicity. Love will cause anyone w/out an understanding to ignore their understanding of the former three to pursue it. Once you are caught up in it, nothing else exists for you and it is very easy to become lost - which so many do under false pretenses of what they think it is. Though many think what they seek/pursue IS love, it remains to be what we have MADE it. Possession. Even those scientists seek to own the proof of whatever it is their heart desires.

It is the very concept of love that ails me. I love, and I know what it feels like to BE loved. I understand- to an extent - why we seek it so desperately. There is no other feeling in the world than to be loved, wanted, needed... to feel like there is purpose to your life. My extent of understanding is that I KNOW I am still loved, still needed, and that I DO, in fact, have a purpose, as we all do. Yet that does not stop my emotional mind from seeking that same feeling of what I once had. When s/one loves you, they forget - for the most part - themselves; And the same is true in the reverse. You only think of each other. The unified strength becomes more than just twofold of that of of one human being - it becomes the strength of so much more than I can describe w/ accuracy. There is nothing the two of you cannot endure together - and nothing you cannot accomplish.

So...why is that?? What is it about love that can either make or break us? I know I can answer many of my own questions, but acceptance leaves me empty-handed. I still hurt w/ reason, and what I want, but can't have at this time, continues to disrupt the logic of what I understand. It has been said to me in different ways - even from guys - that we are not here to understand everything and that some things must be left to our emotional side....i.e. - left alone. I beg to differ. In all my reading, research, critical thinking and above all, my own life experiences, I see that our emotional side is present to help us LEARN - not to inhibit, to be "let go of", or to refrain from. Animals posess the same emotions that we do; Yet, we were given conscious MINDS to which we were meant to UNDERSTAND those same emotions.

And so the 'truth' is exposed... I still love a life I once had - to an extent. I miss being loved. Though I am still loved by multiple family members and my children, it still seems different to me. To love another like your 'own', much like you love your offspring, is truly extraordinary in and of itself. When else to you ever get the opportunity to feel that strongly for another human being you believe not to posess your own dna?


Lol...our 'own' dna. As if we OWN our chromosomes. Though there are vast differences in a single one, just remember we are all of the X chromosome. *smiles and winks, knowingly*

'Funny', that both dates are in May.

Anyways...Thank You EsoQuest.

 

[Mr. Premise]

I suggested that song because your statement was an exact quote from the song. "Maybe some day... We'll be togeeeeether." Plus it helps if the song is a bit over the top, corny and not "cool" in any way. I think Laura and the crew in France have used Kareoke songs in that way. That was my thinking anyways. And, if you don't like the song, you will get sick of it quicker ;)

Ya know, Donald, that suggestion of the song makes alot of sense. It seems that 'silly' things can s/times make more sense than logical because they are, in fact, more logical than what we have been taught. I know what song you are referring to, though, and I may have to decline on that one. (Any reason for that song in particular?) There are many newer songs that speak of how I feel, and I'll have to think of just ONE that I could listen to over and over until I no longer want to hear it. (This would be great at work - I have an MP3 player to drown out the ignorance that is allowed to be blared on some of the stations that we are 'allowed' to listen to.)