Paul Misiunas: gathering-minds?

Sol Logos

The Living Force
I had a feeling that this was worth sharing because I feel some may relate to it:

_http://www.gathering-minds.net

I did a search and doesn't seem to be mentioned before here. I've had some correspondence with Paul Misiunas (who writes the blog) who once was involved in Scientology but wised up (a lot) and who in my opinion writes poetical masterpieces.

Perhaps others might find relevance in this material, perhaps not but going on a hunch that you may.


Mod: disactivated link :)

ADMIN: Changed thread title to accurately reflect content.
 
alkhemst said:
I had a feeling that this was worth sharing because I feel some may relate to it:

_http://www.gathering-minds.net

Maybe I'm dense, but I quickly scanned the first page that came up with that link and it just seemed to be word salad, I can't figure out what the heck he is talking about... :huh:
 
Yikes, got a sligth headache trying to make sense from some of that text. Is it word salad or poetical masterpieces? I'd go with the first, but perhaps I've just grown accustumed to the simple explained reasoning going on around here. Akhemst, is there any particular part that you feel is not covered better here or covered at all ?
 
If I understood the text correctly, it's basically saying "just be" and everything will take care of itself. That essentially, no one has to do anything.

alkhemst,

You said that you felt it was worth sharing and that others might relate to it. Is it possible for you to say briefly and in simple terms what you think that text means? In other words, what's your interpretation of it? :)
 
Firstly I just wrote a little on that here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24765.0.html
Perhaps Paul's stuff isn't for everyone. I happen to like it and happy offer my thoughts on it. I'll come back to this later today and write a little more about why I find his writings valuable to me.
 
alkhemst said:
Firstly I just wrote a little on that here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24765.0.html
Perhaps Paul's stuff isn't for everyone. I happen to like it and happy offer my thoughts on it. I'll come back to this later today and write a little more about why I find his writings valuable to me.
Thanks a, I looked at the link you gave. What you wrote there was based on a snippet of the writing and not the work as a whole so it can tend to make a bit more sense based on that context. Even along those lines, Misiunas' writings aren't easily understood in my opinion. The thing is, if someone can't write in a way that most people can understand clearly, this makes one wonder if the author understands what they're trying to convey. If they are not clear, this leaves ideas open to various interpretations which result in misunderstandings. Likewise, if you (or anyone) has difficulty explaining the article, the same would apply. That's why I asked what you think he's saying. Hope that makes sense.

edit: clarity
 
OK, here’s my take Paul’s words and perhaps I might ask him to comment if he wishes to clarify or correct me if I'm wrong.

The metaphor underlying the post in question (pasted below) about the tides or the ebb and flow is about all the magnitude of things that make up appearances and really how there’s no end to appearances because the reality of what is infinite is just that – infinite and because of that - potential is always here and can’t by that definition be fulfilled. If you read Castaneda, you might remember when Don Juan was always guiding Carlos from the fascination of appearances. When he took mescaline and saw all the colours and visions and when Don Juan asked what had happened he described all these things, to which Don Juan basically told him that he missed the point of the whole exercise.

So because appearances can be any manner of size, shape or colour etc. the question is what do we gain by being absorbed in all that? Do we grow beyond it or is it a trap we’ve just set up for ourselves that we can exist in potentially for eternity (if that’s what we want). But in the end that’s not really going hurt infinity or God is it? Personally in terms of what some call “the infinite”, “the Source” or “Universe” or what not, I call God as I feel there’s a divine personality independent of my existence that I can connect with or relate to. Paul doesn’t, for him that’s merely an appearance too. So he says” there is no such thing as a prime mover there can only be appearance and it is this appearance which captures the imagination of Man”. But in any case the question is: Would us choosing to live in illusion via our own free will negatively affect God, if it was God who creates us with this free will do what we please with it in the first place? Seems illogical that it would. If you like, replace the name God, it doesn’t matter the term that suits you.

The other part of that is as tides go, they work in cycles - like creation and destruction and so on. But what we often do is build our houses of comfort on sand, doing our best to avoid the inevitable incoming tide. We do this precisely because all along we grow afraid of change and afraid of basically what that change might do – so we don’t grow. Paul’s text describes the illogical nature of that, because the cyclic nature of everything is set up just for that – for us to grow. So we can only avoid the incoming tide for so long and the more we build up our houses or even our castles on the sand, inevitably the more suffering we will put upon ourselves when all that’s taken away. And it will be taken away. So we are only in the end hurting ourselves, the tide will flow just fine irrespective our choice to deny / ignore it. Alternatively we could step back and see things as they really are and act accordingly. You can see clearly how the world denies and ignores what’s coming and so it is just going to hit us all firmly like a brick on the back of our heads soon enough.

So what’s the alternative? We’ll as Paul’s text clearly states – it’s illogical to do anything but follow the clues that are all laid out for us - when we choose to open our eyes to them. This doesn’t mean “just be”. What does that really mean anyway? Who isn’t already doing that and if that was the solution then it’s clearly not helped very much. In truth it depends on what you mean by this – because our deeper being sees, is aware and responds – it’s impeccable as Don Juan puts it, that’s the capital “I” as Sri Ramana Maharshi also puts it, the root of our being or our soul: “The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. The thoughts have their root in the I-thought. Whoever investigates the True "I" enjoys the stillness of bliss.”

That investigation is not about shutting ourselves down by allowing our fears and other self deceptive emotions run our lives for us, who want’s that when we can run things ourselves? So if we start seeing ourselves “warts and all” in the mirror, we might look ugly but that’s just a judgement of the blind anyway and truth the mirror is a point of departure. If we don’t depart from there, then it’s only what it is - a mirror but it could just as much be a stepping stone for progress, a way to clearly see the next step upwards, if we want. We may have a limited nature but if we understand we’ve come from a limitless nature and that is what we can directly connect with if we choose to, then its clear there’s a way laid out if we only choose to see it. In Paul’s words it’s, a “scent” to follow and grow from what we mistakenly feel we must cling to. If we choose to stagnate, clinging to our own deceptions, that just keeps us in those dark holes we chase our tails in like endless circles we make to become windmills of ourselves. The other choice and we do have a choice is to continually learn and live without our self made limitations and walk that way. But if we don’t the responsibility of that consequence in the end is really ours alone to endure.

So that’s my take and might explain why I find his work valuable. Does that make sense? Maybe it’s a word salad too, so be it :)

In my opinion, like dreams, poems or such metaphorical essays bypass our intellect and that's not always a bad thing. Have a read again if you like and see if you see what I see in it:

"The tides of time weave shapes and colors of all sorts of designs and yet alone at the end of it all the potential remains yet unfulfilled. That very same potential endures in completeness none the worse for wear and tear. It really doesn’t matter the outpouring of energy as it’s expression is just that. The garden hose provides a seemingly endless supply but does it actually reach it’s end? Just because potential ebbs and flows it itself remains steadfast so the question becomes - what is it that makes it appear to ebb and flow? Since there is no such thing as a prime mover there can only be appearance and it is this appearance which captures the imagination of Man.
Reality can be purchased in many shapes, sizes and colors and through the medium of exchange one lives a life of experience capturing the thrilling excitement of emotional bondage. At the end of the day, on the day of accounting, the scale of justice is brought to bear and through our own adjudication we rest our case letting ourselves out the door to again fall into the battle of life and living. As potential unfolds and weaves the thread of life and living we endlessly endure ourselves. So what then is the point?

Can we come face to face with ourselves in order to see the light of day? Can imagination endear us to break the bonds of our own making? How does one set one’s self free from one’s own entrapment? Perhaps when we begin to tire of our own shenanigans do we let the chips fall where they may. Everyone is entitled to their opinion are they not, and as we begin to realize that opinions are nothing but conclusive thinking we tend to look elsewhere for our entertainment. Yes, we do begin to look elsewhere for entertainment and this is typically how thought is used to move beyond itself in transgression. Killing the Beast will do nothing when we can’t even see the windmill.
We all hear about opening people’s eyes to one thing or another and yet the very same voice [has] little concern about their own. How does one judge another without the self-inflicted pain of ignorance being brought to bear? The blind cannot see and in so pointing out that most obvious of fact the viewer blinds themselves to that which lies well above and beyond 'science’. Science is nothing but the arena of substantiated imagination and so when Man proclaims ignorance what is it that is really being exclaimed? When holes appear in the fabric of thought the typical solution brought to bear is to allow existing thought to extrapolate the thread to sew it all back together again. Upon successful completion it can be proclaimed that reality is continuous and complete. Case closed.

In the closure of the door to constant awareness we tend to find that the comfort and safety of our little corner of the universe to be completely acceptable. Why change what we find to be suitable to our sense of self? In so becoming we find being and as the ocean expresses itself as a flowing upon the sands of time we live life until that eventual moment when the tide turns and the sands give up the life previously bestowed. The ebb and flow of potential sets and leaves no footprints so what then becomes the purpose of finding home? In tracking the false images of thought it can be made to appear that one is making progress but in fact just because one looks in the mirror and sees one’s self doesn’t mean that one is enlightened to any degree. That which is seen is that which we see. Making up a good story to go along with it is just another tale being told in a world full of tales.

So if one can’t get there from here what is left?

All that we can do is to follow the rhythms of time, following the scent well laid out for us to follow otherwise we run the risk of following ourselves into the deepest darkest holes we could ever possibly fall into. Frantically scurrying from either light to dark or dark to light and back again, allows the wheel of time to express itself but in the end what is really being accomplished other to chase one’s tail. Just because we are the expression of that which is doesn’t mean anything other than what it is.

And that is the problem of being - that is the consequence.

I'd rather not chase my tail around every corner of the Universe through every hill and dale of dimension to find that out. In coming to rest we are at rest.

But you already know that. "
 
alkhemst said:
So that’s my take and might explain why I find his work valuable. Does that make sense? Maybe it’s a word salad too, so be it :)
Not really, but that's just me. My basic thoughts are that while Misiunas may feel he's doing others a service and has "good intentions", he's really writing for himself and not others. While some effort should be put into gaining knowledge, I don't think it should be wrapped in a lot of poetic phrasing and metaphors that make it difficult to understand but perhaps that's the underlying motivation - to hook a few people into thinking they have stumbled upon a message that only a select few can understand thereby making them feel "special".

Being on this forum a while, I've seen quite a few of these types of articles and I believe they are a trap. I don't think I've seen one yet that not only clearly outlines their message but also attempts to provide a solution. Misiunas, to me, is no different and I would tentatively suggest that his poetic writings are a spellbinder for those seeking to feel good about themselves and are led to believe they are doing something when they are not. They are dreaming that they are awake.

In addition, in looking up information on Misiunas, there's the link below. So even if he is no longer into scientology, it does seem as if he's into knowledgism. From what I understand, it's a twist on scientology although it seems they (scientologists) would disagree with that:

_http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/forget-church-on-sunday-3-new-religions-with-a-modern-twist/

So perhaps to separate themselves from the negative press scientology was receiving, some branched off? Whatever the case, as far as Misiunas writings go, there seems to be no real attempt to see the world as it is - to acknowledge that evil exists and hold it accountable. To me, he thinks that no matter what happens, it's all okay. I'm not okay with that. My take.
 
alkhemst said:
Science is nothing but the arena of substantiated imagination and so when Man proclaims ignorance what is it that is really being exclaimed? When holes appear in the fabric of thought the typical solution brought to bear is to allow existing thought to extrapolate the thread to sew it all back together again. Upon successful completion it can be proclaimed that reality is continuous and complete.

I have a reaction very similar to truth seeker's.

There is a lack of precision in the concepts and the language used in Misiunas' writing. It comes across to me as fuzzy, vague magical thinking. There are many assumptions implied about how things are which don't make any sense to me. The viewpoint that thoughts, things and science are all just appearances and imaginations may be true from a point of awareness far removed from normal human consciousness, but that is not where we are. We are here in 3D. Is it really possible to have your cosmic blissful inner self take over just by thinking you'd like to do it, or because someone says you should?

You seem to be somewhat invested in this material, and it may be difficult for you to see this critique without having some alternative ideas to consider. If you are interested in that, I'd strongly recommend reading the The Wave series and getting some of Gurdjieff's concepts on board. A good place to start with Gurdjieff is Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous.
 
venusian said:
You seem to be somewhat invested in this material, and it may be difficult for you to see this critique without having some alternative ideas to consider. If you are interested in that, I'd strongly recommend reading the The Wave series and getting some of Gurdjieff's concepts on board. A good place to start with Gurdjieff is Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous.

I agree you seem invested in it. It all sounds like some New Agey channeled word salad to me. I'd second the recommendation to The Wave and Gurdjieff.

Are you familiar with the concepts of STO and STS?
 
I personally enjoy reading his work, there's a touch of humour in it for me as well as valuable insights. Whatever group Paul's into doesn't change that for myself. If his work changes and I nolonger find value in it for me, then I'd simply not read it. Also, I've read some of what you've suggested and I enjoy that too for insights and clarity, but there's some things people like reading often based on their own unique personalities which I don't necessarily enjoy or get much out of.

In some ways I feel I'd be taking a large leap to then accuse them of being invested, I'd in a sense be assuming their minds need to work just like mine, which would be an unfortunate thing don't you think? There's a thing I've personally learnt here and a lesson I'll be learning in different ways again in the future and that is when I project opinions onto others, there's something niggling in myself that I'm avoiding.

I can tell you that in myself I wanted to share something of value to me as others might see value in it too and for that reason I'm happy to describe why I find value in it. If every single person in the world didn't find value in it that's still ok.

So you know what's been brought up in a secondary sense is the feelings of judgement and being wrongly accused. There's work for me to do here as I wouldn't be feeling this otherwise. What I'm learning is that humbleness is vital for my own progress. When I have a rigid viewpoint I then only have a small window of learning and the more rigid I am, the smaller the window I have.

So I'm personally grateful and value you all as my teachers. For that I sincerely thank you.
 
alkhemst said:
In some ways I feel I'd be taking a large leap to then accuse them of being invested, I'd in a sense be assuming their minds need to work just like mine, which would be an unfortunate thing don't you think? There's a thing I've personally learnt here and a lesson I'll be learning in different ways again in the future and that is when I project opinions onto others, there's something niggling in myself that I'm avoiding. [...] So you know what's been brought up in a secondary sense is the feelings of judgement and being wrongly accused. There's work for me to do here as I wouldn't be feeling this otherwise. What I'm learning is that humbleness is vital for my own progress. When I have a rigid viewpoint I then only have a small window of learning and the more rigid I am, the smaller the window I have.

I think their point is that's it's obvious that you are invested in this person's writing. It is obvious - in the way you write about it. Nothing to be ashamed of, but realizing it is important, if you want to really get a glimpse of yourself and your own thinking. Regarding your comment on projecting, that seems like a bit of a backhand swipe toward those who are trying to get you to see a glimpse of your own thinking - so you might want to watch that.
 
Thanks Anart, I don't see it that way, I can be passionate about something but that's not always an investment. I feel some other things as mentioned above, perhaps that's why you see this as a back hand swipe but as I said when I project at others or anyone else projects at others, often that tells us more about ourselves. Sometimes truth hurts and for that reason it appears like an attack and other times people attack and it can help us learn the truth about ourselves. It's a fine line that I feel when we become sensitive to ourselves and know our own responses more fully, we can determine the difference.
 
alkhemst said:
Thanks Anart, I don't see it that way, I can be passionate about something but that's not always an investment.

Are you familiar with the term identification - a la Gurdjieff? That is what you are exhibiting.

a said:
I feel some other things as mentioned above, perhaps that's why you see this as a back hand swipe but as I said when I project at others or anyone else projects at others, often that tells us more about ourselves.

What were you projecting?

a said:
Sometimes truth hurts and for that reason it appears like an attack and other times people attack and it can help us learn the truth about ourselves. It's a fine line that I feel when we become sensitive to ourselves and know our own responses more fully, we can determine the difference.

Truth can be very painful, especially when we're identified with something.
 
"la Gurdjieff", sorry I'm not familiar with that. I felt wrongly accused as I said, there's been a number of times in my life that others accuse me of things I know in my heart are false and my explanations had little affect in that regard. My parents are still doing this and I do not see them as a result - that right there is the sadness which situations such as this trigger in me and what I have not as yet connected to fully.
 
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