Plane Crashes

So in that scenario we're talking mechanical issue with the plane rather than pure pilot error?
I think it's still a question. One theory I read on X was the possibility that the pilots thought they retracted the landing gears but instead retracted the flaps, which are necessary to get maximum lift at lower speeds. Here's a short video by Juan Browne about the crash.

 
So in that scenario we're talking mechanical issue with the plane rather than pure pilot error?

Your post above about the ATC call "Mayday...no thrust, losing power, unable to lift!" definitely suggest an engine malfunction. Air India operates the B787-8 with GE engines and not Rolls-Royce engines and so, it's difficult to think that both engines failed on takeoff, since the industry experience is that the GE's are the more reliable engines.

If both engines did fail on takeoff, that would suggest sabotage or maintenance not doing their job correctly, so I still speculate that one engine suffered a severe damage with a loud bang, which gave rise to to the startle factor, causing the crew to forget to raise the landing gear leading to the accident.

Engine failures at takeoffs (EFATO) is one of the main malfunctions that are practiced on a 6 monthly basis, but the simulator environment is not the same as the actual environment. The crews are primed for all sorts of malfunction when they come to the simulator, so the startle factor with an actual malfunction on revenue flights is usually a significant contributing factor to an incident or accident.

In the video at RT, it looks like a normal liftoff and then there is a slight pitch-up followed almost instantly by a pitch down (TAP's reducing power on the operating engine?). The pitch up could be the crew pushing the 'TOGA' switches to get more thrust from the operating engine as they are trained to do.
 
Your post above about the ATC call "Mayday...no thrust, losing power, unable to lift!" definitely suggest an engine malfunction. Air India operates the B787-8 with GE engines and not Rolls-Royce engines and so, it's difficult to think that both engines failed on takeoff, since the industry experience is that the GE's are the more reliable engines.

If both engines did fail on takeoff, that would suggest sabotage or maintenance not doing their job correctly, so I still speculate that one engine suffered a severe damage with a loud bang, which gave rise to to the startle factor, causing the crew to forget to raise the landing gear leading to the accident.
Is it true what I've read that double engine failure is basically unheard of? That the chances of that happening are something like 1 in a billion? If the investigation concludes that, I would think it would suggest sabotage
 
I think it's still a question. One theory I read on X was the possibility that the pilots thought they retracted the landing gears but instead retracted the flaps, which are necessary to get maximum lift at lower speeds. Here's a short video by Juan Browne about the crash.

Hard to believe that a professional crew mistook gear for flaps, since flap retraction doesn't commence until at least a 1000ft (adjustable value depending on the company, usually not below a 1000ft). Also the gear lever and the flap lever are in quite different places. Looking at the image below, Red circle is where the gear lever is and the Blue circle is the flap lever handle.

787_cockpit.jpg

Is it true what I've read that double engine failure is basically unheard of? That the chances of that happening are something like 1 in a billion? If the investigation concludes that, I would think it would suggest sabotage

Yes.
 
Hard to believe that a professional crew mistook gear for flaps, since flap retraction doesn't commence until at least a 1000ft (adjustable value depending on the company, usually not below a 1000ft). Also the gear lever and the flap lever are in quite different places. Looking at the image below, Red circle is where the gear lever is and the Blue circle is the flap lever handle.
Okay, pretty unlikely then. I saw this on the BBC:

In Ahmedabad, where temperatures neared 40°C (104F) on Thursday, the thinner air would have demanded higher flap settings and greater engine thrust, one pilot told the BBC. In such conditions, even a small configuration error can have catastrophic consequences.

CCTV footage which emerged late on Thursday afternoon showed the plane taking off from Ahmedabad, struggling to achieve altitude, and then slowly descending before crashing.

But a take-off roll with retracted flaps would trigger warnings from the 787's take-off Configuration Warning System, alerting the flight crew to an unsafe configuration, according to one pilot the BBC spoke to.

Ex-pilot Mr Chan told BBC Verify that the footage that has emerged so far is too distorted to establish for sure whether the flaps were extended, but said that such an error would be "highly unusual".

"The flaps are set by pilots themselves, before take off, and there are several checklists and procedures to verify the setting," Mr Chan said. "That would point to potential human error if flaps aren't set correctly."
 
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More on the videos form the flight directly before the fatal one.


And here's another angle of the actual crash from what appears to be a security camera perhaps.

it's not the first time I hear that Air India is notorious for having really awful maintenance practices on their aircraft. So it could be down to poor maintenance and human incompetence or carelessness. This is another video posted to Air India today about a flight from Dehli to Chicago, and this one is claiming to be the same plane, weeks before the crash.
 
Hard to believe that a professional crew mistook gear for flaps, since flap retraction doesn't commence until at least a 1000ft (adjustable value depending on the company, usually not below a 1000ft).
Here's more discussion on the flaps and other issues by a pilot. He is pretty good about this stuff. It sounds like the plane reached the overrun part of the runway before getting airborne, so that could have been a factor.


Also the gear lever and the flap lever are in quite different places. Looking at the image below, Red circle is where the gear lever is and the Blue circle is the flap lever handle.
Is that a photo of the 787 Dreamliner cockpit? I searched and couldn't find a picture myself.
 
Something doesn't add up here. When an aircraft collides with a solid object, tremendous forces act on the aircraft and its occupants. Added to this is a direct explosion accompanied by extreme heat and smoke.
Question:
How likely is it that a passenger would correctly assess the situation, open the emergency door, and jump out of the plane?
How much time did he have between perception, shock, and jumping?
Would survival from that height be likely?
There is an old saying about smoke: five breaths are enough to kill you—is that plausible?

I think it's impossible. The massive smoke alone would have caused unconsciousness after a short time. Rescuers couldn't enter the rescue site, so he was on his own, including mountains of debris and corpses. The whole incident reminds me more of the symbolism of 9/11.

 
It's funny, just shows how charged up everyone is.. when reading comments from other users underneath one of the videos of the survivor, a very high percentage seemed to be fixated on the fact that the news said he was a British national i.e. an Indian man being referred to as a British national. This somehow was more worthy of comment compared to the fact that the man had been involved in quite the ordeal and is the only one out of 250+ passengers to survive.

We live in strange times where people on the internet are so hyper focused on identity to the neglect of everything else.
 
Yes it's a miracle he survived, like I said crazy things happen. I don't think it goes beyond that.
It definitely touches on the extraordinary - sorry to keep stressing the point. But it does!

Crazy things happen - I agree.

I am only adding that this is extraordinary.

All good from my side.

Will let people focus on what went wrong with the actual plane.
 
Not sure why people are focused on the survivor on this thread. This is pattern recognition run amok. People survive, crazy things happen.
In a forum that, among other things, serves to establish the truth, all aspects must be considered. My primary expertise is in medicine, so I only assess this aspect based on probabilities. If I see any anomalies here, I question the entire event. Other forum participants can contribute knowledge in the area of aircraft...only by assessing all aspects as a whole can a determination of truth or falsity be made
 

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