Precious moments of miscommunication..

[Il Matto]

Programmes. Habitual ways of talking, of gesturing, of posturing, of responding to the rich tapestry of life circumstances. Most of us, if not all of us, have these to one degree or another; deeply ingrained programmes that run amok, until, that is, we learn to observe them, to identify them and perhaps even remove them from our system.
For my own part, there are occasional moments, both fleeting and infrequent, that bring certain programmes into focus. These are moments where, just briefly, I can observe a colourful range of odd idiosyncrasies, where laughable attempts to bolster a (very thin) veneer of being ‘knowledgeable’ or ‘interesting’ are laid bare, where I have a glimpse of the chasm that sometimes exists between how I think I am and how others may be experiencing me. I have come to think of these moments as precious, not just because they rare, but also because of the invaluable lessons they present.
So, how to experience more of these precious moments? For myself, the noble art of attempting to communicate in a language other than my native tongue has most often been the context for invaluable precious moments of awkward miscommunication and blushing .
I can’t help but find amusement when I recall my fumbling attempts at over-coming a language barrier, and the laughable feeling of indignation at being spoken to like a small child, only later to realise that of course I have to be spoken to in this way – I only have the language skills of a small child! There also seems to be something valuable in the necessity of having to think about the words that are about to come out of your mouth, the unfamiliarity of which brings idiosyncrasies of posture, gesture and tone of voice into focus. “Why on earth are you standing like that? Do you really think that wild gesticulation is helping? Are you really surprised by the blank look of incomprehension?” Somewhere, in amongst the embarrassment, is an important lesson in humility – if I could learn to welcome such feelings and observe them with amusement when they occur I may have made some progress .

Perhaps the most valuable part of this for me, however, is the effort it takes to voluntarily put myself in these situations. Each and every time a (socially acceptable) opportunity presents itself, I have to first overcome those familiar old programmes of not wanting to seem foolish or incompetent, and that threaten to keep me in the comfort of my own internal world and pretend others don’t exist (things at which many of my fellow Londoners are quite proficient ).

So, out of interest, what things do you use as a means of tackling those stubborn programmes? Do you also have to make efforts in order to welcome those precious moments of self-observation?

Many thanks,
Il Matto

 

[Lys]

Hi Il Matto,

Indeed I have to make a lot of efforts to welcome those precious moments of self observation.
This is I think the most difficult thing to do as it is very easy to let go and just forget myself.
I can tell that since I started learning naturopathy, different training and interventions of people from different horizon help me to stay focus on observing my programs, idiosyncrasies but first they help me realize them.

It brings every time a feeling of disappointment and kind of depressive feeling because I always realize that it is never over.
But the good thing is that it is actually never over and it is never to late to make efforts.
So after a time torturing myself with all those thoughts, I just welcome those realizations and try accept them.
This is how I deal with it, but I assume that there is many different ways of doing it.

Like you, I haven't reach the amusement of observing such feelings but self-derision helps me a lot :)

Listening to people like you are a child is actually a good way to really understand them and to keep it simple, like when you try to speak another language. I had a lot of interesting and deep conversations with people while learning English, they keep it simple and share more easily their emotions as emotions are universal for people who have the capacity to feel it.

FWIW :)

 

[T.C.]

Hi Il Matto. I really enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for sharing :)

For me, it has been a bit of a revelation to realise over the past year or so that even though I am just a bunch of programmes, I couldn't really get through life without them. To put it another way, my programmes are what got me this far, they kept me alive this long, they helped me create my career, attain a degree of personal and financial independence. It's analogous to realising that as toxic and oppressive our 21st century western culture may be, it has its advantages too.

So, out of interest, what things do you use as a means of tackling those stubborn programmes? Do you also have to make efforts in order to welcome those precious moments of self-observation?

For me, making lists is a big help. If I have a list of things to do, and I'm not doing them, then I know I have a stubborn programme running; I know I'm not myself. But now that you mention it, I think there's a difference between just 'knowing' that I have a programme running, and having one of those precious moments of self-observation. The latter I would call 'being awake' or 'a precious moment of being awake', and it's often accompanied by a feeling of being overwhelmed, of joy, of gratitude.

So in answer to your second question, I don't think I have to make efforts in order to welcome those precious moments of self-observation, because it's so wonderful when they happen, and I feel so lucky when they happen, that I can't help but welcome them.

 

[Zar]

Hi Il Mato and company,

I understand your push towards being in an unknown environment to reveal those programs that give you a deeper understanding of your machine. I find when you are in a different environment with a different language you tend to reinvent yourself to a degree by observational learning, unless you have previously experienced being exposed to such environments. Having to reinvent yourself is a great way to re-evaluate your machine and see the more noticeable programs that come with re-experiencing the language development from a child to an adult.

Another method is thrusting yourself into a safeish environments that you're very uncomfortable in, I believe Gurdjieff does this to develop his emotional center. I spent my 20's reinventing myself by means of learning to socialize in all times of the day, mainly with the intent to meet women as I had very deep rooted unworthiness and insecurities. I wasn't equipped with the knowledge to fully understand my programs but I instead worked towards becoming an ideal self and forced myself to experience altered body language, speech, eye contact, and even my emotional state. In time I became familiar with this new breadth of being and I required different methods of further revealing my programs, unknown to me back then.

Now I try to visualize myself as a violin string, every action I take creates a frequency and that frequency reverberates and matches a certain reality(in a sense). I don't force myself as much anymore to reveal my programs, instead I focus on being me(whatever me is) and I find that I am naturally curious and tend to have a certain path laid out for me to walk. I focus on aligning my actions with my knowledge and my being, and I naturally have a drive to understand everything. This creates a discrepancy between my actions and my ideals, and gives me a good chance to understand/alter either so that I can see them both as they are. Over time I'm beginning to loose my ideals and just focus on my actions in the present moment and letting things unfold as they will. What an adventure!

Just some thoughts.

 

[Il Matto]

Some interesting things to note so far, thanks all:

Listening to people like you are a child is actually a good way to really understand them and to keep it simple

I hadn't thought about it like that Lys, but rather focussed on my feeling like a child. Interestingly, there is an article on SOTT (https://sott.net/en348179) at the moment that bears relationship to that idea.

To put it another way, my programmes are what got me this far, they kept me alive this long, they helped me create my career, attain a degree of personal and financial independence.

Nor had I really thought about this T.C. No doubt we're all aware of Gurdjieff's injunction to first be a good 'householder' before beginning The Work, and so perhaps it goes without saying that we have to arrive at that point with all our various programmes playing themselves out.

Thank you for your thoughts Thinkingfingers, I get the sense that you have moved beyond the successive mini existential crises that I often put myself through! Indeed, the alignment of our actions with our knowledge and Being is perhaps, in part at least, a good description of The Work itself - quite an adventure indeed!

 

[Cosmos]

Hi Il Matto. I really enjoyed reading your post. Thanks for sharing :)

I can only agree. It was really a pleasure to read your post. Thank you. :) It strikes right at the core of what the work starts to create in oneself and how this precious gift of outside observation, or maybe as Gurdjieff would say "self remembering" or "the real will developing", is such a priceless opportunity to learn about oneself and try to act, feel, think and behave differently.

And now on to your first question:

So, how to experience more of these precious moments?

That's exactly the question I asked myself too a while ago very frequently and I think many, if not all, people trying to do the work know that question all to well too.

As it happens, back then those rare moments happened only very seldomly for me too, and if they happened, it was only after the "big event" had already taken place , (that forced me into the state (aka a shock))that I could observe that state, or rather, the state observing the event and how one has really acted and behaved. Kind of scary, isn't it? At that point I was rather frustrated that this state is there only so seldomly as well and even more nagging was the realization then, that this state always just happened after I already acted automatically. Then I thought things like "how in the world should I act differently, if those states always just happen after automatic (and often embarrassing in sence of the aim) moments?"

It was only after a rather long time, (aka: a lot of shocks in between, that caused the state afterwards) that something slowly started to change there. Now those moments were still rare, but when they happened, they started to happen more frequently amidst of "the shock" itself. That was quite a change there, since at that point, there actually started to develop opportunities to change oneself according to that "observer" in the situation itself at that moment.

What I soon realized though, although I could see more often that way during the situation itself, I still was unable to do anything against those automatism that I observed in that moment. That was rather frustrating as well, to say the least!

Then it took quite a while again (felt like ages! And was again based on a lot of shocks in between, that caused the state more often in the situation itself) until I was for the first time able to actually change something in those situations itself. No big things of course, but small things in those situations, like not saying things I would usually say then. That was quite something!

And on it went like that for another long while. Then there actually came a time in which I thought I was doing better, but soon realized, through a rather big shock, that I'm still not any way near of being the captain of my ship.

That was quite a bummer, since I had actually deceived myself into believing that I was improving in real life. Needless to say that this shock brought me back to earth quickly and I'm thankfull for it!

Then something amazing started to happen, and funny as it might sound it was exactly because of that big shock, that this moments started to happen ever more often, to a point that they actually started to become a part of daily life. But still I couldn't change all that much in the situations. Things still mostly "just happened", even though I could observe them now almost every time right during the moment.

Then it was another big shock that finally enabled me to change more and bigger things during those situations. Funny thing: the more one does that, the longer those states are there and the more frequent they seems to get.

So in the end all seems to have come down to shocks for me and how they enabled to change things. And of course I could have never ever received those precious shocks without exposing myself to "difficult situations".

So in regards to your question above I could only say that the more one practises (by action) the things one has learned theoretically, naturally this state seems to increase and becomes a more stable part of oneself. As Gurdjieffs used to say "only doing counts" and this might be the secrect to develop this "state" more often, together with the shocks that guide the way and somehow function thus as steering wheels in the right direction.

For me, making lists is a big help.

Yes for me too. What helped me tremendously is to write down, as soon as possible, all the realizations that come through this state about oneself and the interactions in life. It's quite funny, or rather scary, how fast we tent to forget those precious insights given to us in those moments! No wonder Gurdjieff made frequently the point, how difficult it actually is to remember ourselves. One can literally feel how all those insights quickly fade away with every minute that passes after the state. So a list like that, is very handy. One also starts to notice that one really develops the need to read the list closely again, rather frequently (to say the least!), since one tends to forget pretty much everything, all the time.

What also helped me is reading Gurdjieff again ("Views from the Real World", "Teachings of Gurdjieff" and "ISOTM") an realizing how much he emphasized postures, movements, tensions and "physical work" in general. Reading that in combination with Peter Levines books "The Unspoken Voice" and "Trauma and Memory" is an absolutely priceless and fascinating combination to read! No kidding. That combination helped me to pay more attention to how I actually move, poise and tens in any given situation and how it manifest in the body and feels like.

For example I then noticed that I have this habit of not sitting straight in general, and especially chairs, of course thinking about what Gurdjieff said about sitting uncomfortably. Also I had the tendency to never put both feet on the ground in the chair, but sitting cross legged instead. So I realized that this is quite comfortable for me, so I started to slowly unlearn those habits, for example by sitting straight in the car when driving from and into work, without leaning against the backrest. I figured: "Since I drive for work quite a distance 5 times a week , I could as well use that "useless time" to create another habit of sitting.

As crazy as it might sound, that simple and little thing was quite difficult for me and this lead to even more realizations about "the terror of the situation". By the way, I noticed then that I also acquired the habit of not putting both hands on the steering wheel while driving, so I figured: "Well then, I'll just do that as well together with sitting straight". A couple of weeks/months doing that, and low and behold, I'm creating a new habit that actually starts to feel comfortable!

Same with the legs while sitting in the chair: started to practise to just sit there with both legs on the ground. Also sounds crazy, but that was really difficult for me, but now becomes a new habit. It is also interesting how Gurdjieff, as well as Levine, talk about how certain habitual movements and postures, literally reenact undesirable habits/traumas from the past and rub us from A LOT of energy. So actually changing things like that seems to have a real scientific and useful basis.

Another thing I would recommend is to regularly practise meditation. That is another very weak point of mine, that I try to change by just doing rather long meditation very regularly.

By the way, your expose about using an unfamiliar language for the work, especially in spoken form with others, is also a very good idea that has a lot of useful elemets in it in regards of the work.

 

[Lys]

Some interesting things to note so far, thanks all:

Listening to people like you are a child is actually a good way to really understand them and to keep it simple

I hadn't thought about it like that Lys, but rather focussed on my feeling like a child. Interestingly, there is an article on SOTT (https://sott.net/en348179) at the moment that bears relationship to that idea.

To put it another way, my programmes are what got me this far, they kept me alive this long, they helped me create my career, attain a degree of personal and financial independence.

Nor had I really thought about this T.C. No doubt we're all aware of Gurdjieff's injunction to first be a good 'householder' before beginning The Work, and so perhaps it goes without saying that we have to arrive at that point with all our various programmes playing themselves out.

Thank you for your thoughts Thinkingfingers, I get the sense that you have moved beyond the successive mini existential crises that I often put myself through! Indeed, the alignment of our actions with our knowledge and Being is perhaps, in part at least, a good description of The Work itself - quite an adventure indeed!

Interesting article indeed, thank you.
It reinforces the idea that we all could benefit from re-learning our inner child part and from the children in general.

Young children have one cognitive talent that most adults have forgotten.

That is the ability to pay attention to everything.

And yes I hadn't thought about focussing on my feelings like a child but this could be a really good way to observe them and see them with a wider outlook.

Thank you for sharing this post! :)

Now I try to visualize myself as a violin string, every action I take creates a frequency and that frequency reverberates and matches a certain reality(in a sense). I don't force myself as much anymore to reveal my programs, instead I focus on being me(whatever me is) and I find that I am naturally curious and tend to have a certain path laid out for me to walk. I focus on aligning my actions with my knowledge and my being, and I naturally have a drive to understand everything. This creates a discrepancy between my actions and my ideals, and gives me a good chance to understand/alter either so that I can see them both as they are. Over time I'm beginning to loose my ideals and just focus on my actions in the present moment and letting things unfold as they will. What an adventure!

Just some thoughts.

This is very encouraging to read your thoughts and your journey Thinkingfingers! Thank you.

 

[Il Matto]

Pashalis, thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail.

It is certainly no small task to make the necessary efforts in order to be able to catch glimpses of how we have really acted and behaved in given situations. At this time, I’m tempted to consider it no small mercy that the ‘shocks’ of self-observation are currently fleeting and infrequent (however frustrating it may be that, very often, these are almost retrospective ‘shocks’!). Slowly but surely I am being disabused of the assumption that I am, as you put it, ‘captain of my ship’ – most times, in fact, I realise that not only am I not the captain, but that some other sneaky sailor has hijacked my ship and left me standing on the dock..!

The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself.

The meaning of this is slowly becoming apparent, as is your point that ‘only doing counts’. Perseverance with efforts would appear to be the way forward.

I will certainly try to take on board the idea, suggested by T.C, of making lists. I’ve long been a ‘journal keeper’ and have recently adopted the habit of keeping a notebook on my person (mainly because my work often requires a better working memory than I have at my disposal..), so perhaps the tools are there ready to be used, as it were. I shall also take on board your suggestion to try changing small habits, and I will have to look into Gurdjieff’s idea of ‘sitting comfortably’. (Though perhaps not exactly what you had in mind, a short while ago I tried wearing my watch on my other wrist for a day – needless to say, the number of times I checked the wrong wrist for the time was an eye-opener )

I thank you kindly for your recommendation to read the work of Peter Levine – from your description, it seems that there is a lot to be learned from his work (and I’ve a feeling that the, erm, ‘Easter Bunny’ owes me a belated Easter gift or two.. ;))

Thanks again