pure STS/pure STO-Ways of attack

[andi]

There's a lot of talk about attack and i hope that we can cover more ground by looking into situations using less 3D perspective -when dealing with such subject.

I hope to give a start , and i'll share a little thought that has been seating in my mind for a while.

We may assume that 4DSTS wants to prevent us from becoming pure STO [that is , to better our chances of advancing from the state of STO candidate]
But it may be possible that they also want to prevent humans from becoming pure STS .

And the aim would be to keep you passive in order to prevent you from experiencing any extremity [pureSTS/pureSTO], because one may lead to the other after words.

We are all STS and STO candidates and what if they want to keep it that way ?
Stay with me...

Pure STO is just one side of the coin and with out the STS side , you know not the coin.

A good detective is one who can put himself in the skin of the suspect . He can only judge correctly and objectively the situation by having knowledge of both sides.
But both sides have to be understood purely [Aka-pure sts/sto] , if not the investigation may go on forever without any real understanding of the situation-PASSIVE INVESTIGATION

I remember somewhere in the RA material , it was said that pure 3D sts will pass to 4D (sts ?)
And what if a souled human would cone very close to pure STS , would the Lizziys try to attack that same way they do to an STO?

...I am having a hard time expressing my self at first , and i hope at least the essential can be understood from the above ...and if someone wants to expend and even clear this one ...that would be nice
-
-anyways , i'm 'expecting ' people to come with their 'own' ideas , so we may look at different perspectives and see if we can come up with concepts...

By the way , i would like to eventually post some diagrams[drawings] with subjects similar to this one - and if anyone would suggest benefits and the possibilities to do so......one obvious benefit from diagrams would be : a big quantity of information within one visual 'lines-words' representation witch can only be explained in a couple of pages of writing witch have the possibility of mixing and confusing the thought-where the diagram can be visualized and thought may easily be applied rationally with less emotional imput . -----------------and also to mention the benefit to those who can hardly explain themselfs :P

-looking forward interacting with you.

 

[pete02]

Hi Andi, I must say I'm quite confused by your post. Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly.

We may assume that 4DSTS wants to prevent us from becoming pure STO

I don't think thats an assumption, I believe its probably their main goal.

But it may be possible that they also want to prevent humans from becoming pure STS .

I highly doubt this as well. If we were STS we would willingly be doing their work for them. Why would they want to stop us from that?

We are all STS and STO candidates and what if they want to keep it that way ?

The way I understand it, we are all STS in 3D and some of us become STO candidates after much work. OSIT.

And the aim would be to keep you passive in order to prevent you from experiencing any extremity [pureSTS/pureSTO], because one may lead to the other after words.

Just out of curiosity which one may lead to another here? I don't understand. Are you saying that becoming full STS may lead to wanting to become full STO eventually?

I understand you may be having a hard time expressing yourself and maybe I am misunderstanding you. I mean no offense, just confused.


EDIT: I just read your intro and realized that you did read the Wave Series. There was no need to ask.

 

[T.C.]

We are all STS and STO candidates and what if they want to keep it that way ?

The way I understand it, we are all STS in 3D and some of us become STO candidates after much work. OSIT.

Yes, I think the main part of the puzzle you're missing, andi, is that we are already 'pure STS' as you put it; in other words, we're not STS candidates or somewhere in between the two.

A good detective is one who can put himself in the skin of the suspect . He can only judge correctly and objectively the situation by having knowledge of both sides.
But both sides have to be understood purely [Aka-pure sts/sto] , if not the investigation may go on forever without any real understanding of the situation

I think that's completely correct, and that's why we are in this current mode of pure STS, so that we can fully experience it and then chose whether we want to stay this way or not. If this interests you and you want to know more about it, you should start by reading The Wave as it contains everything you need to get up to speed on the subject.

 

[andi]

I am familiar to most of the 'subjects' in the forum ,witch is way i waited before starting to come here ....

I apologize for putting in a large concept [] with such little explanation.

I mainly wanted to set a not so conventional way of seeing the sto/sts differences[as an idea ] and put it into different perspective to illustrate - ways of attack caused from potentially incomplete concepts ....since out 3rd D thinking is not enough

I definitely wasn't trying to argue with anybody about the given subject , but only to stimulate an interest for playing with concepts -by giving 'Ways of attack" as a subject , and see if anything useful may come out of sharing diff. sides of the rubix cube .

please let me know if it still sounds confusing ...and since this is my very first time talking with people witch share the same knowledge [more ore less ], probably you could tell me if you think this tread holds water .

thkx in adv.

 

[pete02]

I think I understand what your trying to do now andi. I was taking your thread in the literal sense and your actually speaking hypothetically for feedback? Is that close or am I still off?

 

[henry]

-anyways , i'm 'expecting ' people to come with their 'own' ideas , so we may look at different perspectives and see if we can come up with concepts...

Hi ansi,

I think that the answer depends a great deal on what exactly you mean here by 'people to come with their own ideas'.

We all arrive with a certain understanding or misunderstanding of the material. This is normal. Out of whatever level of understanding we have, we can have different ideas about the same subjects. The goal of the forum is to exchange and to arrive at something of a common understanding, one which we share because we have discussed the issue from many sides, have gathered as much data as we can find, and are able to come to some judgement about it. Maybe at times we'll just have to say "There isn't enough data yet to make a decision".

Sometimes people arrive who think they have answers to give us. When we start to question them about their data and how they arrived at their conclusions, they can get upset. They are not open to new data. They become uncomfortable when their ideas are put into question. They are 'identified' with their ideas.

Having a different perspective can be a good thing sometimes and sometimes not! It all depends on the context. :)

 

[Al Today]

Personally, i think it's a matter of choice Andi. what if one isn't able to make a informativive choice, is it their fault?

 

[pete02]

I think that the answer depends a great deal on what exactly you mean here by 'people to come with their own ideas'.

I see now. The purpose was not to question your ideas andi, it was to bring my own. I did not examine your words close enough. My apologies to you. Thank you Galahad for pointing that out. Just so you know andi, I was not offended nor looking for an argument. I simply misread your post.

 

[Lauranimal]

Quote from Pete02;

Quote from: andi
But it may be possible that they also want to prevent humans from becoming pure STS .

I highly doubt this as well. If we were STS we would willingly be doing their work for them. Why would they want to stop us from that?

I think that what Andi is trying to ask about here is ... If an STS from 3D graduates to 4D, they might represent competition within "higher" ranks. The more 4D STS, the less 'stolen' energy to go around. If those of a 3D STS orientation can be kept from reaching an equal footing, they can continue forever in a slave-conduit position. Never to be the end receiver from 3D STS. (did I get that right Andi?)

Quote from: andi
We are all STS and STO candidates and what if they want to keep it that way ?

And here, I believe Andi is continuing the idea that if the 4D STS can keep the status quo going and keep all of these souls trapped in 3D STS, then their 'food' supply can continue uninterrupted, with no competition on equal footing from either STS or STO. The quote below, also seems to be along these lines.

Quote from: andi

And the aim would be to keep you passive in order to prevent you from experiencing any extremity [pureSTS/pureSTO], because one may lead to the other after words.

quote from Pete02

Just out of curiosity which one may lead to another here? I don't understand. Are you saying that becoming full STS may lead to wanting to become full STO eventually?

In answer to this, there was a slightly confusing session, where the C's were trying to define how STO & STS blends at the Quorum level. (hope I am on track here, but this is what I thought of when I read Andi's posts.)

Quote from session 941112 with the C's on November 12, 1994;

"
[...]
Q: (L) The quorum is described as the good
guys. The illuminati is described as bad guys.
And yet, they are both Masonic. When a
person in the Masonic organization reaches
the higher levels, are there individuals at the
higher levels recruiting masons to one side or
the other?
A: First, not exactly one side or another.
[...]
A: Picture a blending colored circle image.
Q: (L) Are you saying that at some levels the
two halves overlap?
A: Close.
Q: (L) Are you saying that some of the
Quorum are good guys and bad guys and the
same for the Illuminati because the two are on
opposing sides of the circle but at the point of
blending one is weighted more to one side and
the other to the other side? And these
organizations are where the interactions come
together?
A: Closer.
[...]
Q: (L) Okay, so the Illuminati are the higher
level on the pathway of service to self and
somehow, by reaching these higher levels may
have come to realizations or frequencies
which have caused their position to be
modified or blended to where service to self
becomes or incorporates or moves them to
service to others realizations, is this correct?
A: Continue.
Q: (L) Okay, the ones in the quorum are those
who are focused on service to others and they,
in their pathway of service to others begin to
understand that some service to self is service
to others.
A: Close.
Q: (L) And the whole idea is to blend both
pathways no matter which direction you come
to it from?
A: Service to others provides the perfect
balance of those two realities; service to self
is the diametrical opposite closing the grand
cycle in perfect balance.
Q: (L) So it is necessary to have a pathway of
service to self in order for the pathway of
service to others to exist?
A: Yes.

My sense is Andi, that you ... like many of us, do not want to feel helpless. You want to get the lay of the land, and strategize some concrete 'best practices', for how we can recognize different kinds of attacks. I must say, that is seems to be the very point of most of this forum
quote from Galahad:

"...The goal of the forum is to exchange and to arrive at something of a common understanding, one which we share because we have discussed the issue from many sides, have gathered as much data as we can find, and are able to come to some judgement about it. Maybe at times we'll just have to say "There isn't enough data yet to make a decision"...."

By all means! Post some drawings and diagrams, especially if this feels like a way that you can communicate with more clarity. Everyone of us learns in different ways. The 'visual' things will likely carry a great deal of weight for many people.

For myself, every single thread I have read on the forum as an act of observation and gathering data, has helped me to deepen my introspection and (more and more) allows me to make decisions and choices based upon an understanding that takes in to account, a much broader definition of what is REAL.

Thanks for your post Andi, I hope I helped to clarify your ideas (???)
~Lar

 

[anart]

I understand the questions and confusion on this topic, because it is confusing - from our perspective, which is so limited. I think we, as 3D STS humans, tend to try to define everything through our own understanding and frame of reference (naturally) and, in so doing, we miss 90% of the picture - our perception is that limited.

I think that what Andi is trying to ask about here is ... If an STS from 3D graduates to 4D, they might represent competition within "higher" ranks. The more 4D STS, the less 'stolen' energy to go around. If those of a 3D STS orientation can be kept from reaching an equal footing, they can continue forever in a slave-conduit position. Never to be the end receiver from 3D STS. (did I get that right Andi?)

That is an interesting question, but considering that STS is, by its nature, hierarchical, it might follow that there is no problem at all, from the viewpoint of those 'higher up the pyramid' for more to join them, it just makes the base of the pyramid larger. I would think that an STS graduate to 4D would not be on equal footing with a 4D STS entity who had 'been there a while' - and since the 4D STS plan is to rule us in 4D - perhaps the more help, the merrier?

This is, of course, assuming that I have any idea at all of what the dynamics at play at that level might be, which I certainly don't. My main point is that to try to understand these things from where we are now is troublesome at best (though interesting!).

And here, I believe Andi is continuing the idea that if the 4D STS can keep the status quo going and keep all of these souls trapped in 3D STS, then their 'food' supply can continue uninterrupted, with no competition on equal footing from either STS or STO. The quote below, also seems to be along these lines.

Yes, I see your point, but everything is always in flux and considering that the general idea, as we understand it, from the 4D STS' point of view is to continue to rule us/feed on us/keep us aligned with STS, then it might follow that more operatives to facilitate that would be strongly welcomed (perhaps).

In answer to this, there was a slightly confusing session, where the C's were trying to define how STO & STS blends at the Quorum level. (hope I am on track here, but this is what I thought of when I read Andi's posts.)

Yes, this entire subject is confusing, from our point of view - we may catch glimpses of the larger dynamics at play, but for the most part, we're in the dark, though I think it gets a tiny bit lighter by the day...

My sense is Andi, that you ... like many of us, do not want to feel helpless. You want to get the lay of the land, and strategize some concrete 'best practices', for how we can recognize different kinds of attacks. I must say, that is seems to be the very point of most of this forum.

True, and with that need to get the lay of the land comes the necessity to understand that with our genetically limited perception and understanding, we probably won't be able to suss it all out - but we can rely on each other to help - since many colinear minds, acting in unison, can create what approaches 4D perception - at least this has been hinted at previously and it certainly seems to be the case.

By all means! Post some drawings and diagrams, especially if this feels like a way that you can communicate with more clarity. Everyone of us learns in different ways. The 'visual' things will likely carry a great deal of weight for many people.

More data is always good! As long as we hold onto it lightly in our minds - and don't identify with it - so if it is lacking or skewed, we are reading and willing to adjust it and move forward with new understanding. This can be a difficult thing, or so it seems to me - but difficult things are almost always worthwhile!

 

[andi]

Before even writing this lines , I sat before a blank notepad contemplating
to what all of you who have posted.
I didnt think it would be that difficult to answer , and I would probably like
to disscuss and switch ideas with you all individually, but in the same time
realise that it may bring confusion insted of fusion and it will sooner or later
create something that I have been carefull no to :noise .

The subject witch started as an idea , witch had grate potential for
subjective thinking and assumptions , all of witch i was awere to a certain
extent , had also potential towards letting the mind drift just a bit and
wander since the subject itself had no definite model to witch we can
identify [OSIT]...what i had missjudged is the facility to witch this can be
done{watching all this memebers expressing themelf with such ease gave
me momentum}.

Of course this doest have to relate to you to the same extent it doest to me .

When i find an intresting talks , i start and write an essay and every thing
goes well ..it is clear and has a flow ...but when taking in consideration
that it has to be expained so others can have a grasp at it [witch may seem
quite contradictory to their belifs ], then things become , as i so soon
discoverd , quite complicated.

I think this is enouth with the boring stuff about what i find hard or not ,
the fact remains that 4Dsts wants our skin and we dont want to share it !

Want could it be that they know and we dont ?
What if they use a psychology that we are not even awere of? Like they use
mathematics witch for as is gibrish.

Or are 'we' getting ahead of our selfs ?-we haven't even finished distinguishing
what we have here on 3D , yet the C's are saying to stop thinking 3d and
the hole linear thinking and start preparing for 4D[and i hate saying that,
because it would have to include me and the reader(as being ready for it )
...witch could be a wrong starting point] .

I certenly see a lot of attack on me as well as others, but can i blame it all
on them? ...that's too easy ...and to some extent, I even think they 'laugh'
when we do that .

Maybe a new pshychlogy is needed and we may have the means to do it ....see my
concern?

I would hate to seat around the bord and indulging in agreemants with
others when 'time' is so short .


I haven't answered back to the questions you asked ...but since this is not
to be a feed-back session but more like a share-back [for the benefit of
all]....How would you describe your attacks and do you think they are
comming directly from 4D or are they just under the form of programing
that is allready in place [and of course this programing runs allmoast by
itself,we are the ones that make it work ]. How do you think it is affecting
you ? or is it becoming helpful when you understand its mechanics.

And i'm sure you have something on your mind 'visavi' the subject that you
don't think holds ground ...maybe you want to share.

thanks pete02/T.C./Galahad/All Today/Lauranimal/anart and others to come.

I'll look if a diagram is warth poasting and if it has the potential of being
benefical.

 

[T.C.]

How would you describe your attacks and do you think they are
comming directly from 4D or are they just under the form of programing
that is allready in place [and of course this programing runs allmoast by
itself,we are the ones that make it work ].

Hi andi

This was something I came to think about a while ago now, as I began to see how our programming determines our lives as a race. I wondered, "How much is 'real time' manipulation by outside forces and how much comes from my deep rooted programming?"

The analogy I think of is sheep in a field. It was said by the C's that our genetics were altered by the lizzies (through some form of light manipulation) and that it was for their benefit. I think this is like selective breeding of sheep. They have been bred to be docile so they don't give us much trouble when we want their wool or their flesh.

So here are these useful creatures that we have programmed for our benefit to be easy to control. We get some land and put a fence around, then we put the sheep in and just 'leave them to it', and we don't have to interfere very much.

Now sometimes, there might be an accident, and the fence will break. So we go in with our 'technology' i.e. sledge hammer and wood cut to size, and we fix the fence. The lizzies might see a hole in our fence of perception and use their 'technology' to alter our thinking. Sometimes we might need to mark different sheep so we'll use red and blue paint; when the lizzies want to mark us, they put in an implant.

So I think direct manipulation happens when needed, like when we start to wake up and mess with the program and cause the lizzies problems. Until then, normal programming keeps everything going well for them.

 

[henry]

Before even writing this lines , I sat before a blank notepad contemplating
to what all of you who have posted.
I didnt think it would be that difficult to answer , and I would probably like
to disscuss and switch ideas with you all individually, but in the same time
realise that it may bring confusion insted of fusion and it will sooner or later
create something that I have been carefull no to :noise .

That is why we have a forum, so that we can share our ideas and work together to come to a more and more objective understanding of reality. Trying to work these things out individually, or just among a very small group will, as you suggest, lead to noise. Especially if the point is just to share ideas, rather than learn from each other. There are many places on the web where people can share ideas, but there is only one place like this! As far I as I know!

<snip>

I think this is enouth with the boring stuff about what i find hard or not ,
the fact remains that 4Dsts wants our skin and we dont want to share it !

andi, I think that you are going through what most of us go through or have gone through. We can think we have a clear idea about some subject, but when we try to put it down in our own words and share it with others, we find that there are still pieces missing. Because of that, what we write may be confusing, it may contain noise. But if we don't try and write and share our ideas, we won't be able to get feedback from others. They can point out to us where it isn't clear and give us some ideas on reading that can help us clarify our thinking.

We all write noise sometimes. The problem only comes if we identify with that noise when others point it out, that is, if we refuse to see it as noise. As anart points out above: we need to hold onto our ideas lightly.

Want could it be that they know and we dont ?
What if they use a psychology that we are not even awere of? Like they use
mathematics witch for as is gibrish.

I am certain they know a lot of things we don't! We couldn't even begin to understand it!

Or are 'we' getting ahead of our selfs ?-we haven't even finished distinguishing
what we have here on 3D , yet the C's are saying to stop thinking 3d and
the hole linear thinking and start preparing for 4D[and i hate saying that,
because it would have to include me and the reader(as being ready for it )
...witch could be a wrong starting point]

.

We start to think in new terms when we let go of our beliefs and stop identifying with our ideas. We start to think in new terms when we entertain a constant doubt about our thoughts and the origins of our emotions. We all have a tendency to want to control the world around us. We want certainties. When we can let go of this need for certainties, we start to think in new terms.

So it is a step-by-step process of letting go of the old ways of thought. It won't happen like a bolt of lightening out of the blue that immediately changes everything. But it can be small moments of awareness where we see some small part of ourselves in a different light.

I certenly see a lot of attack on me as well as others, but can i blame it all
on them? ...that's too easy ...and to some extent, I even think they 'laugh'
when we do that .

I bet they do! If we keep our attention on 'they are attacking me', then we won't be able to see ourselves and our responsibility.

Maybe a new pshychlogy is needed and we may have the means to do it ....see my
concern?

The system outlined by Gurdjieff is a new form of psychology -- or rather an old psychology we are rediscovering.

Have you read the psychology books recommended by the QFS? We are in the process of constructing, or reconstructing the psychology you are talking about.

<snip>

How would you describe your attacks and do you think they are
comming directly from 4D or are they just under the form of programing
that is allready in place [and of course this programing runs allmoast by
itself,we are the ones that make it work ]. How do you think it is affecting
you ? or is it becoming helpful when you understand its mechanics.

What we see as attacks can come in many forms. If you have read the thread about Pepperfritz and the last session with the Cs that talks about it, you'll see a very clear example of direct attack. But an attack like that is very rare for most people on the forum. I think that many things that we consider as attacks are simply the way things work in this reality. We are caught in a world with rules and a dynamic that is playing out between creation and entropy. We are all aligned with the entropic force and it takes a lot of work and effort to begin to align ourselves with the Creative force. What can seem like an attack from outside may well be an inner struggle to overcome one's own inertia and to develop one's Will. As you suggest, it runs almost by itself.

So, yes, to understand that dynamic can help a great deal because you develop a greater and greater understanding that you have the power, by developing your Will, to overcome your habits and the inertia that is holding you where you are. You also come to understand the importance of being surrounded by people who have been through it before you and who can help you see it and work through it.

 

[andi]

That is why we have a forum, so that we can share our ideas and work together to come to a more and more objective understanding of reality. Trying to work these things out individually, or just among a very small group will, as you suggest, lead to noise. Especially if the point is just to share ideas, rather than learn from each other. There are many places on the web where people can share ideas, but there is only one place like this! As far I as I know!

:) yes Galahad , i think you're right ..networking the way you suggested is what i am looking towards

Have you read the psychology books recommended by the QFS? We are in the process of constructing, or reconstructing the psychology you are talking about.

thanks for the remainder ;) , i haven't gone through all of them yet.

thkx for your post Galahad.