Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine
- Thread starter bjorb
- Start date
Could be. Although I think the NATO goons will have to overstep the mark first.
ApotheosisMMC.
Jedi Council Member
Let us not forget that "Shock and Awe" is the dirty attack strategy strongly associated with the United States and NATO where they seek to quickly dominate the enemy through the use of overwhelming force from multiple weapons. I say dirty because it is not usually implemented with any respect for the civilian population.
with respect to the other about of many belligerents surrendered quickly, it is perhaps because something would cause them enormous shock and Awe that they did not expect as a result of believing their own lies.
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Apparently in 2023 Biden signed into effect a law saying that head of the Executive govt couldn't pull out of NATO without either support of 2/3 of the senate or by an act of Congress. So the legality of Trump withdrawing from NATO is under question. Originally withdrawal from NATO would take effect 12 months after notification. As Head of the Executive Govt, he can still withdraw troops, equipment and funding. Be interesting to see how he handles this. I imagine that he will manage withdrawal one way or another if he's serious about it.
The law is not 'airtight': Trump may have a way out of NATO
The law is not 'airtight': Trump may have a way out of NATO
And was there a law signed and approved by both houses that allowed NATO involvement in Ukraine?
If the goal was *really* to give Ukraine an edge in the conflict, the US and UK would have chosen to quietly incorporate the relatively small and ineffective "long-range precision" missiles into Ukraine's arsenal, say nothing about it and let the chips fall where they may. Instead, they chose to broadcast it to the world as a "game changer" via the media, in full knowledge that these missiles would be, and were, easily shot down by Russia. In doing so, they"forced" Russia to make a very loud and public response.This is all for propaganda effect rather than any significant effect on the battle field.
lilies
The Living Force
Russia recently upgraded its anti-ship Zircon missiles to version 2.0: increasing speed to Mach 13, thus adding 500km range to the previous Zircon iteration (v1.0), now making v2.0 a 2000km range missile. If the US made old Harpoon anti-ship missile hits a ship, there is a chance that the ship may survive the hit.
But a single Zircon generates an impact of 400 times the kinetic energy of one US Harpoon anti-shipping missile: meaning that if just one Zircon hits a Western ship, the kinetic destructive power is so great that the hit will be unsurvivable! Then Russians may use not one, but salvos of Zircon missiles, which attack may rip apart an entire US battlegroup. Currently US Navy has no defense against hypersonics.
Meaning that if the US attacks China with US carrier battlegroups in the future, the Chinese' own hypersonic missile attacks probably will be now boosted by the donated Russian hypersonic missiles and these two will decimate US Naval power, destroying US "power-projection" at sea.
Meaning a historical full stop of missile bombing Middle-Eastern countries with Western ships from the sea!
Essentially this will make China and Russia exclusive naval powers in the world with only US submarine force remaining. So we might see new Russian high-speed torpedoes being developed: this is already in the works in form of the high-speed intercontinental, autonomous Torpedo Poseidon, which can be and will be probably not exclusively nuclear-armed, but conventionally armed too. Russians also made it so fast that no US submarine's anti-torpedo defenses can shoot it in the water!
Expecting Russia having some sober thinking and planning to only conventionally destroy a few best, most modern US submarines, which have in contrast shockingly obsolete old weaponry!
But a single Zircon generates an impact of 400 times the kinetic energy of one US Harpoon anti-shipping missile: meaning that if just one Zircon hits a Western ship, the kinetic destructive power is so great that the hit will be unsurvivable! Then Russians may use not one, but salvos of Zircon missiles, which attack may rip apart an entire US battlegroup. Currently US Navy has no defense against hypersonics.
Meaning that if the US attacks China with US carrier battlegroups in the future, the Chinese' own hypersonic missile attacks probably will be now boosted by the donated Russian hypersonic missiles and these two will decimate US Naval power, destroying US "power-projection" at sea.
Meaning a historical full stop of missile bombing Middle-Eastern countries with Western ships from the sea!
Essentially this will make China and Russia exclusive naval powers in the world with only US submarine force remaining. So we might see new Russian high-speed torpedoes being developed: this is already in the works in form of the high-speed intercontinental, autonomous Torpedo Poseidon, which can be and will be probably not exclusively nuclear-armed, but conventionally armed too. Russians also made it so fast that no US submarine's anti-torpedo defenses can shoot it in the water!
Expecting Russia having some sober thinking and planning to only conventionally destroy a few best, most modern US submarines, which have in contrast shockingly obsolete old weaponry!
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So a POTUS can freely get the country involved in a war but another POTUS can't freely get it out. Figures.
Seems to me that whatever was fired this morning by Russia was for demonstration purposes to those in the West who know how to interpret it. The question remains, however, whether or not the mad warmongers will take the lesson, or if they're so reckless and deluded that it will not deter them.
One can make reasonable, carefully formulated analysis of all the parameters from a rational logical point of view, as you did nicely in
High-Precision, Long-Range NATO Missiles Against Russia: Why Now? This is both necessary and needed, but I would add a small caveat leaving room for "insane persons in positions of power". This is a difficult concept unless one has experience from a psychiatric ward. I don't, but a nurse of my acquaintance with a leading position and years of experience explained that there are cases where patients suddenly become so violent they have to be moved to "safe wards" which is the best translation I can find without having to look it up. Her boyfriend was for years the chief psychologist at such an institution, some with criminal records, and in such institutions there are very strict measures to insure the safety of the doctors and nurses. From her own life, as a young student she had at a community center night shift where a deranged violent drug psycho showed up to create havoc. Long story short, she quickly signed out after a life threatening situation.
It is well known that some of the people in power are on drugs, which can add to already present psychological instability. Whereas a crazy psycho in ward quickly is subdued because he or she is not the boss after all, how much longer does this take when the person is in a position of power. I don't know if we have or need a thread to discuss the pro and cons of giving some of the possible candidates the lable of being outright insane. Here is a quote from the Cs for starters:
Things are really heating up. There are certifiable, insane persons in positions of power.
Session 19 October 2024
mantle
Jedi
It could very well be for demonstration purposes but it also lowers the threshold for the use of nuclear surprises.
At least 150 countries have banned the use of landmines yet that most corrupt appendage has received permission to use them against Russia. The Anglos are aiming the paths that lead the strikes. Their military engineers are busy declaring war on Russia . The senile in the White House declared open war without permission from Congress by giving his assent. I believe the Russian Bear is being bated .The bear is a most dangerous animal. I think this is a warning.
At least 150 countries have banned the use of landmines yet that most corrupt appendage has received permission to use them against Russia. The Anglos are aiming the paths that lead the strikes. Their military engineers are busy declaring war on Russia . The senile in the White House declared open war without permission from Congress by giving his assent. I believe the Russian Bear is being bated .The bear is a most dangerous animal. I think this is a warning.
We have to wonder what passed through the minds of our Western leaders when the ICBMs were launched. The only reason for Ukraine to have been targeted with these as opposed to more conventional missiles is that they can potentially carry proper nuclear warheads (bigger than 'tactical'). So they saw them fly to Ukraine, and as someone on Twitter mentioned, they did nothing - did Zelensky take notice?? In a way, it is a message, that they can nuke anyone with their new weapons if they choose to, no problem. But it was also a sort of bold psychological move, in the sense that they launched ICBMs - potentially nuclear armed, as per their updated nuclear doctrine - and the West did nothing! A sort of 'dare' which resulted in a psychological win for Russia. Interesting that Zakharova was asked not to comment on this, leaving the world to wonder.
Another possibility is that the West didn't even see them coming. I don't think that was the case, but if so, that would also be a win for Russia.
I think what Laura has said before applies here - NATO is like the tick crawling on an bear (Russia) with rape on its mind. The missiles that were shot at Russia vs the demonstrations from Russia are incomparable. NATO brought a knife to a gun fight. Putin knows what kind of beast he's dealing with, and I agree with others who said he's unlikely to do anything that is not absolutely necessary. If Russia and its people are not in any real danger, there's no need to respond. The Ukrainian missiles were just a message, not any real threat, so the response was a message as well (with a real implied threat this time).
Once Russia finishes cleaning up Ukraine, it will be a sobering moment for the beast - kinda like when Neo absorbed and exploded Agent Smith and the other agents looked at each other and ran. The real question for me is what is plan B when the Ukraine proxy war fails. When was the last time the west has so blatantly failed in its wars or even proxy wars? Granted all their wars were failures, but somehow they were still able to claim that they accomplished whatever vague and illusory objectives they had. This time I think is much more clear - Russia achieves what it came to do, keeps its territories, and Ukraine may or may not even exist at that point after denazification is completed too. And US/NATO has utterly failed to stop them. It would be a very high profile blow and will erode the last remnants of anyone still perceiving US as a dominant superpower. Which can have all sorts of cascading effects!
Of course, if Trump can manage to negotiate peace, I also agree that Russia will still get what it wants, but maybe the PTB can then save face and say they didn't lose, it's Trump who decided to pull US support out, so he "abandoned" Ukraine and gave Russia what they want. I imagine a very long media propaganda campaign about how Trump supported the "dictator" Putin etc. But seeing how probably the majority of the US are so fed up with supporting Ukraine anyway, this may no longer have any real effect. Yeah a bunch of lefties will be pissed, but maybe that's about it.
But "saving face", even if possible, will probably not be satisfactory. The geopolitical goals vs Russia failed, and that's a huge blow regardless of how it happened. I don't think the beast will just shrug and move on, so who knows what they will attempt next.
Once Russia finishes cleaning up Ukraine, it will be a sobering moment for the beast - kinda like when Neo absorbed and exploded Agent Smith and the other agents looked at each other and ran. The real question for me is what is plan B when the Ukraine proxy war fails. When was the last time the west has so blatantly failed in its wars or even proxy wars? Granted all their wars were failures, but somehow they were still able to claim that they accomplished whatever vague and illusory objectives they had. This time I think is much more clear - Russia achieves what it came to do, keeps its territories, and Ukraine may or may not even exist at that point after denazification is completed too. And US/NATO has utterly failed to stop them. It would be a very high profile blow and will erode the last remnants of anyone still perceiving US as a dominant superpower. Which can have all sorts of cascading effects!
Of course, if Trump can manage to negotiate peace, I also agree that Russia will still get what it wants, but maybe the PTB can then save face and say they didn't lose, it's Trump who decided to pull US support out, so he "abandoned" Ukraine and gave Russia what they want. I imagine a very long media propaganda campaign about how Trump supported the "dictator" Putin etc. But seeing how probably the majority of the US are so fed up with supporting Ukraine anyway, this may no longer have any real effect. Yeah a bunch of lefties will be pissed, but maybe that's about it.
But "saving face", even if possible, will probably not be satisfactory. The geopolitical goals vs Russia failed, and that's a huge blow regardless of how it happened. I don't think the beast will just shrug and move on, so who knows what they will attempt next.
