Putin's watches worth much more than what he earns

axj

The Living Force
It seems that it is well documented that Vladimir Putin owns several very expensive watches which are worth around $700.000, even though his official annual salary is only around $180.000.

_http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/putins-extravagant-700000-watch-collection/
_http://www.vice.com/read/putin-flaunting-his-watch-collection-is-just-another-display-of-power

A question for those familiar with the Russian legal system:

Are public officials allowed to receive such expensive gifts? Is there another 'legal' explanation for this? Because it looks like Putin's income is much higher than what he officially reports.
 
It seems that it is well documented that Vladimir Putin owns several very expensive watches which are worth around $700.000, even though his official annual salary is only around $180.000.

_http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/putins-extravagant-700000-watch-collection/
_http://www.vice.com/read/putin-flaunting-his-watch-collection-is-just-another-display-of-power

The main claim in these articles is that Putin owns a $500,000 Lange & Sohne watch. Interestingly, nowhere including in the source video and in Google image (keywords: putin Lange Sohne) could I find a picture of Putin wearing such a watch.

Although there are numerous pictures of Putin wearing cheaper watches (Patek, Blancpain, Breguet).
 
You are right, that video omits showing the most expensive watch while showing all the others.

The only place that allegedly shows Putin wearing a different "Lange & Söhne" watch (Model 1815) is a NYT article:

28russia-watch-dyptych-popup.jpg

_http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/world/europe/for-russia-president-vladimir-putin-report-says-perks-are-piling-up.html

It looks similar, but the resolution is so bad that it is difficult to be sure. And in any case, these are much cheaper at around $30.000.

That "Tourbograph" for $500.000 seems to be a myth though.
 
axj said:
You are right, that video omits showing the most expensive watch while showing all the others.

The only place that allegedly shows Putin wearing a different "Lange & Söhne" watch (Model 1815) is a NYT article:

28russia-watch-dyptych-popup.jpg

_http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/world/europe/for-russia-president-vladimir-putin-report-says-perks-are-piling-up.html

It looks similar, but the resolution is so bad that it is difficult to be sure. And in any case, these are much cheaper at around $30.000.

That "Tourbograph" for $500.000 seems to be a myth though.

The source of this 'info' says it all: The New York Times, aka. the Bullhorn of US empirialist propaganda.

The same sources have also asserted that Putin is the richest man in the world, owning Gazprom etc.

Sorry, but it is hard to take this horse hockey serious.
 
In most countries gift to its officials are counted as gifts to the country, so after the official step down from the office the gifts stays at the office. And often in some display room. Another thing is gifts given to the officials as private person, which nobody denies them right to wear those gifts (if those are watches and similar). Of course officials usually are not allowed to be promoters of the products, like actor are, for example.

Maybe Putin wears just his personal gifts, why not? If I would own watch factory I would gave him as a personal present my best product . . .
 
The claim of Putin having a super expensive watch is particularly ridiculous, because recently several corruption cases swept through Russia (several governors and officials were arrested), and at least in case of governors, they had a collection of expensive Swiss and other watches.

Russian investigators have arrested the governor of the northern Komi region and 18 other officials in a high-profile corruption case.

The arrest of Gov. Vyacheslav Gaizer on Saturday was given extensive coverage on state television, which showed investigators finding a stash of cash and a collection of expensive Swiss watches in his office.

The television report also noted failures by Gaizer’s administration to address problems in his region and showed President Vladimir Putin warning governors at a meeting last week that they needed to work “honestly and with total efficiency.”

The intention appeared to be to send a message to other regional leaders that the Kremlin would do more to hold them accountable at a time with Russia’s economy is being badly hit by low oil prices and Western sanctions.
 
Are they so desperate that they have to start focusing on Putin's watches now? Sheesh. They have got nothing better to do? :evil:
 
As a side remark, just read news about former banker Sergei Pugachev on Reuters today:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/09/21/russia-pugachev-exclusive-idINKCN0RL20R20150921

"But having helped Putin ascend to Russia's top job in 1999 during the last days of Boris Yeltsin's presidency, Pugachev fell out with some of Putin's most powerful allies in the years after the 2008 financial crisis.

Russian authorities say Pugachev, who once represented Siberia's Tuva Republic in the upper house of parliament, helped himself to over $700 million in Russian central bank bailout money intended to help Mezhprombank through the crisis.

At Russia's request, Interpol has issued an arrest warrant for Pugachev."

My guess is that if you were to find someone wearing Lange & Söhne watches hidden somewhere out there, that would be Mr. Pugachev. I also find it funny that there is always some poor billionaire accusing Putin of something...

Also of note is this latter redaction of the original Reuters' article, omitting the bit about Interpol and almost the whole story, it also says $12 bln:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/22/us-russia-pugachev-claim-idUSKCN0RM0YM20150922
 
Keit said:
The claim of Putin having a super expensive watch is particularly ridiculous, because recently several corruption cases swept through Russia (several governors and officials were arrested), and at least in case of governors, they had a collection of expensive Swiss and other watches.

I wonder if this latest propaganda is an attempt to link Putin with these cases? The media in its desperation to find negative news about Putin will stoop to any level. It's getting ever more ridiculous - well, at least to those who can read between the lines. :thdown:
 
aleana said:
Keit said:
The claim of Putin having a super expensive watch is particularly ridiculous, because recently several corruption cases swept through Russia (several governors and officials were arrested), and at least in case of governors, they had a collection of expensive Swiss and other watches.

I wonder if this latest propaganda is an attempt to link Putin with these cases? The media in its desperation to find negative news about Putin will stoop to any level. It's getting ever more ridiculous - well, at least to those who can read between the lines. :thdown:

Yeah, I think its more propaganda, as they just don't have much to stick on Putin, as he has been very honorable, and conducting himself with integrity. Hence watches is it....sigh!

I mean, even if Putin did like watches, and even if he was wearing some expensive ones that were gifts to him or he purchased himself - I don't see anything wrong about it. Considering what he has done for Russia & the world, I much rather have Putin wearing good watches, than some Empire's warmongering psychopath of a leader who wears no expensive watches .
 
Before the Russian opposition group Solidarity came out with their 'watch' video, the source from the NYT is a 'report' written by opposition members, Boris Nemtsov and Leonid Martynyuk. If that weren't enough, their hit piece claimed the value of the Lange & Sohne at $25,000, not $500,000.

_http://upnorth.eu/putins-palaces-the-life-of-a-galley-slave-nemtsov/

This is all pretty low level propaganda and just ridiculous if you ask me.

And frankly, if Putin is into watches, I think he deserves a $500,000 one for all he's done for Russia and the world.
 
I think the watches are probably a distraction but I think many Russians may be of the opinion that Putin is reaping rewards from his position. I met a young Russian at a local restaurant formerly owned by an American, now deceased, who married a Russian wife. Her brother or nephew ( I forget the relationship) recently moved to U.S. and we talked briefly about Putin. He is under the impression that Putin is very rich. I brought up the idea that Putin addressed the problem of the oligarchs and foreign investment but his perception was that Putin just benefited from his position and he mentioned that Putin is in office due to a change in their constitution to allow an extended term in office. This particular younger Russian was not happy about the change in the length of the presidential term from 4 to 6 years. Our perceptions are open to manipulation and I can see that the truth is not always easy to determine.

It is true that the term for presidency was extended from 4 to 6 years:

_http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/12/30/russia.presidential.term.extension/index.html
19 September 2013

December 22, 2008:

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Tuesday signed a law extending the presidential term, the Kremlin said, in a move many observers believe is designed to bring former president Vladimir Putin back to the nation's top office.
Medvedev, Putin's hand-picked successor, proposed the changes in November, starting with the next president.

The new law extends the term of the president from four years to six. Medvedev also signed a law extending the term of members of the lower house of parliament, the Duma, from four years to five.

Putin stepped down as president in May after two terms and is now prime minister.

Putin actually stepped aside after 2008 and for 4 years to serve as Prime Minister:

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-24164478

December 22, 2008:

Russian President Vladimir Putin has suggested that he may stand for a fourth term in office in 2018.

"I don't rule it out," he said during a debate with former French Prime Minister Francois Fillon in the Russian holiday region of Valdai.

Since taking power in 2000, Mr Putin, 60, has won three elections but had to stand aside for four years in 2008.

Recent years have seen the biggest protests since Soviet times against Mr Putin and his allies.

Political opponents accuse him of failing to tackle corruption and undermining democracy.

In 2008, he was obliged by the constitution to stand aside, having served two consecutive terms.

With his protege Dmitry Medvedev elected in his place, he served as prime minister instead but, in the opinion of many, he remained firmly in control of Russia.

His re-election last year was marked by street protests, followed by a crackdown on opposition figures and non-governmental organisations.

I am not saying that Putin is not doing better than previous Russian presidents but our optimism not be shared by many Russians. And I do hope Putin stays safe because the world needs as many leaders with a conscience in office as it can get.
 
goyacobol said:
I am not saying that Putin is not doing better than previous Russian presidents but our optimism not be shared by many Russians. And I do hope Putin stays safe because the world needs as many leaders with a conscience in office as it can get.

One important thing that should be kept in mind is, that Russians are naturally distrustful of any authority and after years of corruption got used to the idea that one doesn't reach this kind of level of power without having a lot of skeletons in their closet. Of course, Western "democracy" concept is also a major corrupting element, so there is a lot of confusion regarding the issue, as people don't really know how to recognize real pathology and don't think deeper than the visible level.

Good example would be the Chelyabinsk meteorite, when the Russian web was busy inventing and discussing myriad of theories that had to do with secret weapon experiments, UFOs and what not. In this case Russians were willing to accept any secret government scenario, and were sure that the truth is being concealed from them, instead of accepting it as a "simple meteorite".
 
goyacobol said:
I met a young Russian at a local restaurant formerly owned by an American, now deceased, who married a Russian wife. Her brother or nephew ( I forget the relationship) recently moved to U.S. and we talked briefly about Putin. He is under the impression that Putin is very rich. I brought up the idea that Putin addressed the problem of the oligarchs and foreign investment but his perception was that Putin just benefited from his position and he mentioned that Putin is in office due to a change in their constitution to allow an extended term in office. This particular younger Russian was not happy about the change in the length of the presidential term from 4 to 6 years. Our perceptions are open to manipulation and I can see that the truth is not always easy to determine.

In addition to what Keit has already explained above, it could be added that there is some difference in perception/evaluation of Putin's input among different ages and levels of the Russian society.

Some younger people, those who had no or little experience of the 90s' hardships, tend to perceive a good leader as a given, because they have no one to compare with. Another problem is their own sometimes grand egos and arrogance preventing them from adequate evaluation of other people's efforts and achievements. They prefer to see only the negative side, the problems (economic, social and other) not yet fully solved, and unwilling or unable to see the bigger picture (as to who actually caused those problems and who is now trying hard to solve them). Such people just appear to be too young and immature to discern the crux of the matter.

The same can be applied to the upper level of the Russian society: the intelligentsia and/or simply reach and powerful people. Many of these people, although adult enough to consider themselves generation of the 90s, had no experience of hardships either. And because of their high status (prestigious education and/or positions), they also consider it somehow 'below their level' to acknowledge Putin's outstanding work.

To put it simply: Putin is mostly admired, respected and valued by the ordinary, usually adult and experienced people, who often have no money or power, but who have good memory instead.

As for the extension of his presidency term, many Russians would actually be happy, if his term was extended from 6 years to forever, as it is factually the case with our two closest neighbours and allies: Belarus and Kazakhstan. The leaders of these two countries have been in office since 90s (for about 20 years, that is). And because these two countries are run by the two strong and experienced statesmen and not by some temporary puppets, both countries still manage to effectively counteract any bloody 'regime changes' so far. Our Western partners prefer to call them 'dictators', but the truth is: they are simply patriots of their countries working hard for their own people.

And just to share with you one more resent example, about a week ago we had regional elections here in Russia. At that time I was visiting my relatives in Kemerovo region. The governor of this region, Aman Touleyev, was re-elected with a stunning 97% (or so) of votes. He has also been running the region since 90s. He is already 70 (!) years old and was willing to actually resign because of his health issues. But President Putin personally asked him to stay, because Mr. Touleyev has always been among the most efficient governors in Russia.

After the elections, such opposition TV channels like RBC (read: Western NGOs) started voicing their 'concerns' and 'outrage' about such 'lack of democracy' as well as their doubts about the election transparency. Just to give you all an idea of what RBC et al. are all about, here is an example: one of their anchors is Zhanna Nemtsova, the daughter of the recently deceased 'prominent Putin's critic' Boris Nemtsov. You might wish to search Sott.net for more info about him and his 'opposition' activities.

But the truth is that Aman Touleyev is indeed super popular in his region. As I said, I was there at the time of the elections, and I saw myself how many people came to vote. It could be difficult to see it from RBC's palatial Moscow offices, but I could clearly see - from my own window - those hundreds of ordinary people coming to the neighbouring school to give their votes for Mr. Touleyev.

So yes, when Western or Western-sponsored outlets start criticizing Russian leaders, all they can come up with is 'he's been in office for too long, hence he is a dictator and the whole system is totalitarian' or 'look at his expensive watches, he must be too rich to be decent'. How pathetic is that?

Sorry for a long rant, fwiw.
 
Keit said:
goyacobol said:
I am not saying that Putin is not doing better than previous Russian presidents but our optimism not be shared by many Russians. And I do hope Putin stays safe because the world needs as many leaders with a conscience in office as it can get.

One important thing that should be kept in mind is, that Russians are naturally distrustful of any authority and after years of corruption got used to the idea that one doesn't reach this kind of level of power without having a lot of skeletons in their closet. Of course, Western "democracy" concept is also a major corrupting element, so there is a lot of confusion regarding the issue, as people don't really know how to recognize real pathology and don't think deeper than the visible level.

Good example would be the Chelyabinsk meteorite, when the Russian web was busy inventing and discussing myriad of theories that had to do with secret weapon experiments, UFOs and what not. In this case Russians were willing to accept any secret government scenario, and were sure that the truth is being concealed from them, instead of accepting it as a "simple meteorite".

Keit,

I was hoping for a more informed view of how the majority may perceive Putin's leadership. I was a bit disturbed meeting this one younger person who had a rather negative opinion. Needless to say I didn't go into much detail once I realized he had such a low opinion of Putin and saw him as a continuation of a totalitarian system. I was hoping he was not in the majority and there might be a stronger support for Putin's efforts than what was being expressed.

I am thankful to have your input which gives a more informed and balanced view for us.

Siberia said:
goyacobol said:
I met a young Russian at a local restaurant formerly owned by an American, now deceased, who married a Russian wife. Her brother or nephew ( I forget the relationship) recently moved to U.S. and we talked briefly about Putin. He is under the impression that Putin is very rich. I brought up the idea that Putin addressed the problem of the oligarchs and foreign investment but his perception was that Putin just benefited from his position and he mentioned that Putin is in office due to a change in their constitution to allow an extended term in office. This particular younger Russian was not happy about the change in the length of the presidential term from 4 to 6 years. Our perceptions are open to manipulation and I can see that the truth is not always easy to determine.

In addition to what Keit has already explained above, it could be added that there is some difference in perception/evaluation of Putin's input among different ages and levels of the Russian society.

Some younger people, those who had no or little experience of the 90s' hardships, tend to perceive a good leader as a given, because they have no one to compare with. Another problem is their own sometimes grand egos and arrogance preventing them from adequate evaluation of other people's efforts and achievements. They prefer to see only the negative side, the problems (economic, social and other) not yet fully solved, and unwilling or unable to see the bigger picture (as to who actually caused those problems and who is now trying hard to solve them). Such people just appear to be too young and immature to discern the crux of the matter.

The same can be applied to the upper level of the Russian society: the intelligentsia and/or simply reach and powerful people. Many of these people, although adult enough to consider themselves generation of the 90s, had no experience of hardships either. And because of their high status (prestigious education and/or positions), they also consider it somehow 'below their level' to acknowledge Putin's outstanding work.

To put it simply: Putin is mostly admired, respected and valued by the ordinary, usually adult and experienced people, who often have no money or power, but who have good memory instead.

As for the extension of his presidency term, many Russians would actually be happy, if his term was extended from 6 years to forever, as it is factually the case with our two closest neighbours and allies: Belarus and Kazakhstan. The leaders of these two countries have been in office since 90s (for about 20 years, that is). And because these two countries are run by the two strong and experienced statesmen and not by some temporary puppets, both countries still manage to effectively counteract any bloody 'regime changes' so far. Our Western partners prefer to call them 'dictators', but the truth is: they are simply patriots of their countries working hard for their own people.

And just to share with you one more resent example, about a week ago we had regional elections here in Russia. At that time I was visiting my relatives in Kemerovo region. The governor of this region, Aman Touleyev, was re-elected with a stunning 97% (or so) of votes. He has also been running the region since 90s. He is already 70 (!) years old and was willing to actually resign because of his health issues. But President Putin personally asked him to stay, because Mr. Touleyev has always been among the most efficient governors in Russia.

After the elections, such opposition TV channels like RBC (read: Western NGOs) started voicing their 'concerns' and 'outrage' about such 'lack of democracy' as well as their doubts about the election transparency. Just to give you all an idea of what RBC et al. are all about, here is an example: one of their anchors is Zhanna Nemtsova, the daughter of the recently deceased 'prominent Putin's critic' Boris Nemtsov. You might wish to search Sott.net for more info about him and his 'opposition' activities.

But the truth is that Aman Touleyev is indeed super popular in his region. As I said, I was there at the time of the elections, and I saw myself how many people came to vote. It could be difficult to see it from RBC's palatial Moscow offices, but I could clearly see - from my own window - those hundreds of ordinary people coming to the neighbouring school to give their votes for Mr. Touleyev.

So yes, when Western or Western-sponsored outlets start criticizing Russian leaders, all they can come up with is 'he's been in office for too long, hence he is a dictator and the whole system is totalitarian' or 'look at his expensive watches, he must be too rich to be decent'. How pathetic is that?

Sorry for a long rant, fwiw.

Siberia,

Thank you for the long rant! I was hoping for this kind of input to get a better perspective on the state of public opinion concerning Putin's presidency. I tried to express to the young man that the US is not as perfect as he may be thinking. Another strange coincidence of the conversation was his mention of an aunt who works for the World Bank. I kind of realized at that point that his view was probably not the typical everyday Russian citizens'.

I hope that president Putin can hang in there and anchor some positive frequency. And I hope we here on the forum may do the same.

Thanks.
 
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