Question about self-destruction...

Danny

Jedi
I forget how the saying goes,but it's something like the only guarantees in life are death and taxes.Well I would like to add to that ...The only guarantees in life are death,taxes,and the fact that anytime I make any semblance of a "step forward"in life ,I will come back and systematically tear everything down behind it,burn the bridges,and shatter anyones illusions of my sanity.I've done it since childhood and right up to this very moment I still do it.

What the HELL is wrong with me?
Is there a scientific/psychological explanation?Or am I cosmically just out of whack?

I have hit this magnaimous wall and cannot go ANY further in my quest to serving others if this mental "pin" is not removed.It's almost as if my drive for life is somehow just reversed.

Can someone lead me in the right direction for literature for this "phenomenon"?
Why do I insist on doing this to myself time and again?
 
I think there is no logical or rational explanation why you do the things you do. There's something inside you that's stronger than your desire and it sabotages your efforts to do the things you want to do. Sometimes it's so frightening to imagine changing, growing or making conscious choices that we deliberately hamper our own efforts.

The first step is to identify how you're sabotaging yourself and think carefully and take responsibility where it's due! Yes, there are other people in your life who affect how you spend your time. And, you still always had and have a choice.
 
It could be defined as an act of self-sabotage. Self-sabotage exists for some people as the ultimate 'cop-out' or excuse for doing things and/or moving forward.

For some people it exists as a way to avoid 'seeing' too, because what is there to be 'seen' is often quite distressing for the individual and may have to do with others, themselves and how each 'interacts' with the other.

Self-sabotage via self-destruction can be a subconscious 'easy way out'.

The problem is three-fold.
1. recognising there is a problem - easy if you're looking!
2. seeing what it is that you don't wish to see - not easy if you don't like what you see!
3. changing the way you act/interact with yourself and others - very hard!

You'd be amazed at how hard our brain and concious mind work to make us avoid 'seeing' anything of interest as well as the amount of 'programing' that goes into keeping some people 'blind'. Your self-sabotage may be related to that.
Just my two bits worth.
 
Recently I've been playing alot of video games, translation - i havent been doing my homework.

I have this pile of books, plenty of notes on what i should do, and yet its not getting done.

I just completed 9 books in the last 6 months, thats alot for me, and i've been "taking time off" from the reading.

I don't want to take time off... but i do at the same time. I dont feel as if my situation is as dramatic as yours, however i do believe we're suffering from the same basic phenomena.

Here's a quote from Gnosis I that i just read and it seems applicable.
Mouravieff pg161 said:
While playing his role in life in this way, man will sometimes find
playing this role so attractive that he will enter into confluence with it anew,
again as before mistaking the scene for real life. These will be falls.
These falls, these returns to the mirage, are practically inevitable, and will
repeat themselves for a long time, at intervals that are sometimes
closer, sometimes further apart. They must not frighten him, and even less must
they obsess him. Returning to himself after having constated his fall, man
must simply resume his role, his new attitude and, as if nothing
reprehensible had happened, must without slackening continue this invisible struggle
which will lead him to the Way. However, we must watch here that we do not fall
into a trap. The principles of the game, and forgetfulness of the past, make
it very easy for us to justify to ourselves our weaknesses and our falls. This
not only acts in falls undergone while in full invisible struggle, (19) but
those which result when we compromise with ourselves for the satisfaction of
carnal, sexual or other desires, for our ambitions, or for the acquisition of
some advantage. ' This is stronger than I ' is no excuse for him who aspires to the Way."
 
Danny,
What you are experiencing may be what Gudjieff calls "mechanicalness".

Until we progess on the path of the work, we are all really just "reaction" machines. A certain thing happens, we react one way. Another thing happens we react another way. No thinking involved. I do this myself, and I KNOW better.

We all do this in varying degrees. It is one of the things that we need to get past to make progress, but it is a slow process. It can and will be quite frustrating at times.

Gurdjieff said:

"It is the greatest mistake," he said, "to think that man is always one and the same. A man is never the same for long. He is continually changing. He seldom remains the same even for half an hour. We think that if a man is called Ivan he is always Ivan. Nothing of the kind. Now he is Ivan, in another minute he is Peter, and a minute later he is Nicholas, Sergius, Matthew, Simon. And all of you think he is Ivan. You know that Ivan cannot do a certain thing. He cannot tell a lie for instance. Then you find he has told a lie and you are surprised he could have done so. And, indeed, Ivan cannot lie; it is Nicholas who lied. And when the opportunity presents itself Nicholas cannot help lying. You will be astonished when you realize what a multitude of these Ivans and Nicholases live in one man. If you learn to observe them there is no need to go to a cinema."

also

"One of man's important mistakes," he said, "one which must be remembered, is his illusion in regard to his I.
"Man such as we know him, the 'man-machine,' the man who cannot 'do,' and with whom and through whom everything 'happens,' cannot have a permanent and single I. His I changes as quickly as his thoughts, feelings, and moods, and he makes a profound mistake in considering himself always one and the same person; in reality he is always a different person, not the one he was a moment ago.
"Man has no permanent and unchangeable I. Every thought, every mood, every desire, every sensation, says 'I.' And in each case it seems to be taken for granted that this I belongs to the Whole, to the whole man, and that a thought, a desire, or an aversion is expressed by this Whole. In actual fact there is no foundation whatever for this assumption. Man's every thought and desire appears and lives quite separately and independently of the Whole. And the Whole never expresses itself, for the simple reason that it exists, as such, only physically as a thing, and in the abstract as a concept. Man has no individual I. But there are, instead, hundreds and thousands of separate small I's, very often entirely unknown to one another, never coming into contact, or, on the contrary, hostile to each other, mutually exclusive and incompatible. Each minute, each moment, man is saying or thinking 'I.' And each time his I is different. Just now it was a thought, now it is a desire, now a sensation, now another thought, and so on, endlessly. Man is a plurality. Man's name is legion.
"The alternation of I's, their continual obvious struggle for supremacy, is controlled by accidental external influences. Warmth, sunshine, fine weather, immediately call up a whole group of I's. Cold, fog, rain, call up another group of I's, other associations, other feelings, other actions. There is nothing in man able to control this change of I's, chiefly becauseman does not notice, or know of it; he lives always in the last I. Some I's, of course, are stronger than others. But it is not their own conscious strength; they have been created by the strength of accidents or mechanical external stimuli. Education, imitation, reading, the hypnotism of religion, caste, and traditions, or the glamour of new slogans, create very strong I's in man's personality, which dominate whole series of other, weaker, I's. But their strength is the strength of the 'rolls' in the centers. And all I's making up a man's personality have the same origin as these 'rolls'; they are the results of external influences; and both are set in motion and controlled by fresh external influences.
"Man has no individuality. He has no single, big I. Man is divided into a multiplicity of small I's.
"And each separate small I is able to call itself by the name of the Whole, to act in the name of the Whole, to agree or disagree, to give promises, to make decisions, with which another I or the Whole will have to deal. This explains why people so often make decisions and so seldom carry them out. A man decides to get up early beginning from the following day. One I, or a group of I's, decide this. But getting up is the business of another I who entirely disagrees with the decision and may even know absolutely nothing about it. Of course the man will again go on sleeping in the morning and in the evening he will again decide to get up early. In some cases this may assume very unpleasant consequences for a man. A small accidental I may promise something, not to itself, but to someone else at a certain moment simply out of vanity or for amusement. Then it disappears, but the man, that is, the whole combination of other I's who are quite innocent of this, may have to pay for it all his life. It is the tragedy of the human being that any small I has the right to sign checks and promissory notes and the man, that is, the Whole, has to meet them. People's whole lives often consist in paying off the promissory notes of small accidental I's.
"Eastern teachings contain various allegorical pictures which endeavor to portray the nature of man's being from this point of view.
"Thus, in one teaching, man is compared to a house in which there is a multitude of servants but no master and no steward. The servants have all forgotten their duties; no one wants to do what he ought; everyone tries to be master, if only for a moment; and, in this kind of disorder, the house is threatened with grave danger. The only chance of salvation is for a group of the more sensible servants to meet together and elect a temporary steward, that is, a deputy steward. This deputy steward can then put the other servants in their places, and make each do his own work: the cook in the kitchen, the coachman in the stables, the gardener in the garden, and so on. In this way the 'house' can be got ready for the arrival of the real steward who will, in his turn, prepare it for the arrival of the master."

This, in my thinking, explains a lot about the situation and why we are what we are. As was mentioned in another thread, next up is to start DOing.

Don
 
Danny said:
I forget how the saying goes,but it's something like the only guarantees in life are death and taxes.Well I would like to add to that ...The only guarantees in life are death,taxes,and the fact that anytime I make any semblance of a "step forward"in life ,I will come back and systematically tear everything down behind it,burn the bridges,and shatter anyones illusions of my sanity.I've done it since childhood and right up to this very moment I still do it.

What the HELL is wrong with me?
Is there a scientific/psychological explanation?Or am I cosmically just out of whack?

I have hit this magnaimous wall and cannot go ANY further in my quest to serving others if this mental "pin" is not removed.It's almost as if my drive for life is somehow just reversed.

Can someone lead me in the right direction for literature for this "phenomenon"?
Why do I insist on doing this to myself time and again?
Firstly I think that serving others is an impossible goal if you cannot serve yourself. How are you to help others if you can't help yourself?

The next thing is, I don't really understand what you are actually asking.

"the fact that anytime I make any semblance of a 'step forward' in life ,I will come back and systematically tear everything down behind it,burn the bridges,and shatter anyones illusions of my sanity."

Tear everything down behind it? What does that mean? Shatter anyones illusions of your sanity? Its not clear to me what you mean.
 
Danny, what you are reporting strongly suggests me this is a sort of a past-life programing.
I have been trying to find the session quote to this but have not been able to. I will continue to look for it.
On this quote, the person in question will always reyect to be loved. C's told her she saw her twin dye in a dramatic way: Was decapitated. So this woman blamed her self and rejected all type or source or demonstration of love because of this event she had in a past live.... ok I think I read it in the green book of the wave (Book III).
Since I read what you express, this has been very present on my mind and I would suggest to take this factor as a key to, for example, approach to russ (and other's) questions: Approaching this from the symbolic end will give you, hopefully, powerful keys.
And I think you need to impose discipline on to your self (a la castaneda): Become a warrior, a master of your self. With this, you could be able to access more deep and clear the significance of your behavour?
 
Thank you all for your input.One thing I can understand is the fact that I have to weed out the "I's" of the "poor me " nature.That much I know.It is alot of work to push those aside and so very easy to let them in.I relate very much to these passages of G and M.Case in point:When "I" first posted this thread last night,it was almost a feeling of despair.Today another "I" awoke and said "Get over yourself willya".

"If you learn to observe them there is no need to go to a cinema."

INDEED lol who needs drama shows when yu can just watch your own selve(s) perform.

The idea of the past life programming,while very intruiging and worth further investigation,still IMO borders the side of making excuses for myself.Nonetheless,Id still like to try some hypnosis sessions someday.The rejection to be loved also makes sense.I'm always weary about people intentions (paranoia)when one tries to get close to me,chalking it up to "you gotta earn my trust".One thing is key and that is moderation.In EVERY aspect of life.And coming to terms that there "I's" in me that wnat nothing more than to carry out my demise.The key is to know those parts of me and feel when they are rising up in me instead of letting the moment take ahold of me.The podcasts these past couple weeks have tuched on that as well.Hindsight is most definitely 20/20.And I think,if I listened correctly that The task within myself is to put the wheels of hindsight into motion and work on making it more a ...PERIPHERAL sight.Understanding what trigger the reactions and seeing it somewhat ahead of time.
Once again thanks.
 
Russ said:
Tear everything down behind it? What does that mean? Shatter anyones illusions of your sanity? Its not clear to me what you mean.
What I mean mostly is just as simple as keeping myself finacially stable.Case in point:
My last place of employment is owned by a divorced couple.The ex wife knows the "in's and outs" of the business and has always been there in the office keeping us on the road with work and scheduling,calling for appointments,etc.But she is a raging alcoholic and the past couple months has gone on quite a few binges therefore we never know up until the last minute when the workers are to go out,sometimes no work due to not making the proper calls.Well all of us workers got together and wanted a meeting with them to explainthat htis cant go on any longer we need stability.Well we had a meeting a couple Friday mornings ago and in walks the ex wife stumbling and wreaking of liquor...8 in the morning!I simply spoke up and said as far as I was concerned the meeting is over before it started.She proceeded to deny being intoxicated and wanted to literally fist fight me.I backed off but not without shouting some explatives and basically sinking mysaelf to her level,which in turn pretty much sealed my fate there regardless if I was right or not.
What I SHOULD have done is let her ramble on incoherently and walk away until things blow over.The ex husband would then see our point and make the proper adjustments. And probably I would be still employed.This day and age here in America employment is becoming less and less readily available for us blue collared workers.Hence why I'm kicking myself in the ass.Pretty much letting the petty tyrrants get the best of me.
 
This is the fragment I thought about:
("A" is a Laura's friend, female)

December 21, 1996.

Q: (A) So many things have happened to me, that I am wondering if
something happened to my brain in this life or another that would
explain my thinking.
A: More specific, please.
Q: (A) Did anything happen in another life that has caused me
problems in this life?
A: The answer is yes, as with all others.
Q: (L) What happened to cause these mental problems?
A: Not mental, emotional.
Q: (L) Can you tell us a little bit about it?
A: Death of a twin in the last lifetime. Farming accident in 1880's.
Q: How did this twin die?
A: Fell off of the ox-driven combine, driven by father. Was
decapitated.
Q: (L) Were they male or female twins?
A: Male.
Q: (L) And what were their names?
A: Lucas and Lawrence. Lucas was the one that died.
Q: (L)Where was Mother, as Lawrence, at the time?
A: In the house.
Q: (L) And what kind of emotion has carried over into this lifetime?
A: Her longing is insatiable as she is always "looking for love" due to
her loss.
Q: (L) How old was Lucas when this happened?
A: 8 years old.
Q: (L) How many years after this accident did Lawrence live?
A: 22 years.
Q: (L) Have any of the persons of that lifetime returned to interact
with her in this life?
A: No.
Q: (L) Not even the twin?
A: Correct.
Q: (A) Emotions are not mental, there is a difference? So, my
problems now are emotional and not mental?
A: Your problems are due to maladjustment.
Q: (L) From life to life or just this life?
A: They are the same.
Q: (V) Did she witness the accident?
A: No.
Q: (L) Did she see the body after?
A: No.
Q: (L) Was there any sense of blame or resentment directed toward
her by the parents of that time?
A: No.
Q: (L) Was there any mental or emotional abuse that took place in
that lifetime?
A: Maybe some, but it is not significant.
Q: (L) What steps can she take to resolve this maladjustment?
A: Awareness of the root of the problem.
Q: (L) Is there any other part to this event that would help her?
A: No.
Q: (A) So, all the problems that I had as a child were the result of
this?
A: Some seek an environment of "punishment" in an attempt to resolve
left-over issues.
Q: (L) Did she have feelings of guilt that her twin had died and she
was still alive?
A: Yes, but this was not imposed by others.
Q: (L) Okay, she felt guilt, and sought an environment that would
punish her?
A: Close enough for hand grenades.
[...]
Q: (A) Let me ask this: all of the experiences that I had as a child
were caused by this emotion where I was trying to punish myself. I
have spent my lifetime trying to punish myself. Is that right?
A: Close. But remember, the point is, you sought out a environment
that you perceived to be restrictive and unforgiving; especially with
your father.
Q: (L) Was there other karma with her father in this lifetime?
A: Maybe, but you are the one, Laura, who can best examine these
issues.
Q: (L) What about between my mother and myself?
A: Ditto.
 
Danny I think in the case you mentioned, your emotional centre took charge of your actions. Gurdjieff said that the emotional centre is the fastest centre, and so it can "take the lead" quite easily. I think thats true!

There isn't anything wrong with anger, it just depends on how its used, osit. I think you were right to feel angry, but I don't think you wanted to act the way you did.

So how to stop it from happening? You need something to remind yourself when you are feeling that way, to slow down and think about how its going to make you act - unless - you change how you act. I think this is an oppertunity to remember - every time you feel angry, think of that woman, for example.

Associate the woman with acting on emotions without thinking (thats what sounds to me what happened). It doesn't really matter how intelligent you are if you don't think before acting, since if you don't use your intelligence, it can't do anything. I'm sure you know this, but perhaps that knowledge isn't very accessable when you are angry.

So, you get angry, which reminds you of that woman, which in turn reminds you to slow down and think about how you want to act. You need to force yourself to think, your intellectual centre needs some energy. Isn't it funny how after acting angrily, you start to think "hmm maybe I shouldn't have done that"? That may be because the emotional centre has released some energy which the intellectual centre can use to think. What needs to happen is, the intellectual centre must have access to some of that energy before that happens.

This can work well - identify & accept the problem, and recognise what leads to the problem. The reminder, the woman, is like an alarm clock saying, "wake up!! Its time to do the work!". When you see the tell tale signs of a problem on the horizon, you can be fore warned that you need to exert effort in order to act differently. The more you try to act differently, the easier it will get, but at first it will be a real pain. It always feels uncomfortable to change, at first, but as long as you are put the effort in, and don't give up, it IS something you can acheive - you can expell this problem from your life, for good.
 

Trending content

Back
Top Bottom