Question regarding detox

[SeekingtheTruth]

I have switched to a Paleo diet and I have started using the following cookbook to do so: _http://www.amazon.com/Make-Paleo-Grain-Recipes-Occasion/dp/1936608863. I plan on transitioning to Keto in the very near future. I also work at a health food store called Natural Grocers (_http://www.naturalgrocers.com/shop/shop-online for anyone interested).

I have started to attempt to detox and I wanted to ask you all for any advice/suggestions about the optimal way to do so. I purchased Renew Life's First Cleanse (_http://www.renewlife.com/first-cleanse.html) and have been doing that for the past couple of weeks. The store also sells loose herbs in bulk so I decided to purchase some of them to make my own detox tea (seemed a heck of alot cheaper way to go). These are the herbs that I purchased:

Chicory root
Milk Thistle
Red Clover
Dandelion Root
Lemon Balm
Burdock Root
Fennel Seed
Slippery Elm
Lavender
Rooibos tea
Chai Tea

I've been using 1/2 teaspoon of each and making about two cups of tea out of it. Should I make any additions/subtractions?

I also purchased a bottle of Bentonite Clay solution and I take about 1/2 teaspoon a day.

As an employee I get a 30% discount to all supplements and 20% to grocery items. All of the loose herbs in bulk mentioned above cost about $31.00 total prior to the discount. If anyone here is having trouble getting an item where they live I'd be happy to get it for you and send it your way (if I can afford it that is!).

 

[mcb]

I have switched to a Paleo diet and I have started using the following cookbook to do so: _http://www.amazon.com/Make-Paleo-Grain-Recipes-Occasion/dp/1936608863. I plan on transitioning to Keto in the very near future. I also work at a health food store called Natural Grocers (_http://www.naturalgrocers.com/shop/shop-online for anyone interested).

I have started to attempt to detox and I wanted to ask you all for any advice/suggestions about the optimal way to do so. I purchased Renew Life's First Cleanse (_http://www.renewlife.com/first-cleanse.html) and have been doing that for the past couple of weeks. The store also sells loose herbs in bulk so I decided to purchase some of them to make my own detox tea (seemed a heck of alot cheaper way to go). These are the herbs that I purchased:

Chicory root
Milk Thistle
Red Clover
Dandelion Root
Lemon Balm
Burdock Root
Fennel Seed
Slippery Elm
Lavender
Rooibos tea
Chai Tea

I've been using 1/2 teaspoon of each and making about two cups of tea out of it. Should I make any additions/subtractions?

I also purchased a bottle of Bentonite Clay solution and I take about 1/2 teaspoon a day.

As an employee I get a 30% discount to all supplements and 20% to grocery items. All of the loose herbs in bulk mentioned above cost about $31.00 total prior to the discount. If anyone here is having trouble getting an item where they live I'd be happy to get it for you and send it your way (if I can afford it that is!).

I have heard the authors of that book speak, and I am planning to buy it at some point and go through it. A major selling point is that it features simple, easy-to-prepare recipes, although I will have to see that for myself.

You need to have a lot of background in order to participate in our KD experiment, but you don't need a lot before you can start improving your diet and health (but hopefully you won't just improve a little bit and stop). Going grain free first before going ketogenic is what I did, and it worked well, although I used the Life Without Bread diet for that. Actually, I went wheat-free first for some months, then grain free for a month or two, then ketogenic, and finally extremely low carb ketogenic, over the course of more than a year. The biggest changes appeared when I went grain-free.

I personally don't take a supplement unless it is recommended for a particular symptom that I have or, in the case of starting out, to help with the transition. I used a few of the supplements suggested in Primal Body, Primal Mind, and a few based on those recommended in Detoxify or Die. I can't say that any of them have made much difference, although one of them -- vitamin C -- could possibly have been doing damage in my particular situation, and I reacted negatively to bile salts. There is nothing about supplements that makes them intrinsicly "safe."

 

[Laura]

The main things about detoxing are the following:

1) Probably everyone who eats wheat, grains in general, dairy (except butter) has a leaky gut. Healing the gut is first priority.

2) A healed gut and proper diet that stimulates the liver to increased activity will naturally detox many things from the body.

3) Many plant based substances are loaded with anti-nutrients and cause more harm than good.

4) Fiber irritates the colon and should be reduced to almost nil gradually. Thus, fiber based detox/cleansers are dangerous. (They nearly killed one of our members.)

5) The most important elements to detox are heavy metals.

 

[LQB]

The main things about detoxing are the following:

1) Probably everyone who eats wheat, grains in general, dairy (except butter) has a leaky gut. Healing the gut is first priority.

2) A healed gut and proper diet that stimulates the liver to increased activity will naturally detox many things from the body.

3) Many plant based substances are loaded with anti-nutrients and cause more harm than good.

4) Fiber irritates the colon and should be reduced to almost nil gradually. Thus, fiber based detox/cleansers are dangerous. (They nearly killed one of our members.)

5) The most important elements to detox are heavy metals.

Yes, humans seem to be at the top of the food chain for heavy metal accumulation. It is a well-known contaminant in human waste. Some (grass) farms will contract to have their pastures treated with processed human waste. I know of one local that treats 25 acres that grows a very bushy grass that they cut/bale for cattle feed. It looks great but the metals must come up in the grass - and the into the cows - and back into humans. This can only concentrate the problem. Luckily this does not seem to be a widespread practice.

 

[mcb]

...
3) Many plant based substances are loaded with anti-nutrients and cause more harm than good.

4) Fiber irritates the colon and should be reduced to almost nil gradually. Thus, fiber based detox/cleansers are dangerous. (They nearly killed one of our members.)
...

That can be a problem with these paleo recipe books. They may overemphasize plant food and fiber. I have found, though, that fiber comes in different 'flavors' and that once you entirely eliminate grains you will probably not encounter anything nearly as abrasive and damaging.

I don't believe there is much of ANYTHING worse than "healthy whole grains" for mechanically shredding your GI tract. It was literally making me bleed, and that all stopped when I stopped eating that crud.

Fiber does have a place in a paleo diet, however, as "prebiotic" food for bacteria in the colon. If you eat the right kinds of fiber, from low-carb plant foods (that you will want to test for sensitivity), they are largely indigestible to us directly, but the gut bacteria ferment them and product useful byproducts including short-chain fats. Depending on your particular gut flora, though, it may be necessary to strictly limit certain prebiotics (the so-called FODMAPs) to avoid problems with over-active bacteria. These problems may or may not resolve over time, but should resolve if you can address all of your inflammation issues.

Even "friendly" low-FODMAP fiber can be overdone. If you eat enough of it, it increases stool bulk and can stretch out the GI tract. More is not better, although you should be able to learn to gage what is going on. And you have to watch it because all plants contain anti-nutrients. The reason a given person can eat one plant and not another is that we have our own anti-nutrient defenses. They vary, however, from one individual to another -- hence the need for food testing (and even that may not easily detect everything; especially when you have multiple active sensitivities).

There is an interesting video from AHS 2012, appropriately entitled Little Shop of Horrors, that has quite a bit to say about plant anti-nutrients. You will never look at broccoli the same way after watching it. :)

Plant-based diets are often touted as healthy, and yet many plants contain clever protective chemicals, carefully crafted by evolutionary forces over millennia, to serve the needs of the plant, rather than to nourish the human body. Many of these compounds are potentially toxic to animal cells, and include naturally-occurring pesticides, mineral chelators, and antibiotics.

 

[Trajan]

I am going pretty low/no grain but I still include a fair amount of veggies in my diet, should that be a no go?

 

[SovereignDove]

...
3) Many plant based substances are loaded with anti-nutrients and cause more harm than good.

4) Fiber irritates the colon and should be reduced to almost nil gradually. Thus, fiber based detox/cleansers are dangerous. (They nearly killed one of our members.)
...

That can be a problem with these paleo recipe books. They may overemphasize plant food and fiber. I have found, though, that fiber comes in different 'flavors' and that once you entirely eliminate grains you will probably not encounter anything nearly as abrasive and damaging.

I don't believe there is much of ANYTHING worse than "healthy whole grains" for mechanically shredding your GI tract. It was literally making me bleed, and that all stopped when I stopped eating that crud.

Fiber does have a place in a paleo diet, however, as "prebiotic" food for bacteria in the colon. If you eat the right kinds of fiber, from low-carb plant foods (that you will want to test for sensitivity), they are largely indigestible to us directly, but the gut bacteria ferment them and product useful byproducts including short-chain fats. Depending on your particular gut flora, though, it may be necessary to strictly limit certain prebiotics (the so-called FODMAPs) to avoid problems with over-active bacteria. These problems may or may not resolve over time, but should resolve if you can address all of your inflammation issues.

Even "friendly" low-FODMAP fiber can be overdone. If you eat enough of it, it increases stool bulk and can stretch out the GI tract. More is not better, although you should be able to learn to gage what is going on. And you have to watch it because all plants contain anti-nutrients. The reason a given person can eat one plant and not another is that we have our own anti-nutrient defenses. They vary, however, from one individual to another -- hence the need for food testing (and even that may not easily detect everything; especially when you have multiple active sensitivities).

There is an interesting video from AHS 2012, appropriately entitled Little Shop of Horrors, that has quite a bit to say about plant anti-nutrients. You will never look at broccoli the same way after watching it. :)

Plant-based diets are often touted as healthy, and yet many plants contain clever protective chemicals, carefully crafted by evolutionary forces over millennia, to serve the needs of the plant, rather than to nourish the human body. Many of these compounds are potentially toxic to animal cells, and include naturally-occurring pesticides, mineral chelators, and antibiotics.

Thanks for sharing this video Megan, I found it very informative and helpful.

 

[SeekingtheTruth]

I have heard the authors of that book speak, and I am planning to buy it at some point and go through it. A major selling point is that it features simple, easy-to-prepare recipes, although I will have to see that for myself.

It does feature simple, easy-to-prepare recipes. However, some of them require ingredients which increase the carbohydrate intake above what I feel to be within the Paleo range. It is my impression that the total carb intake/day for a Paleo Diet is approx. 20g/day OSIT.

You need to have a lot of background in order to participate in our KD experiment, but you don't need a lot before you can start improving your diet and health (but hopefully you won't just improve a little bit and stop). Going grain free first before going ketogenic is what I did, and it worked well, although I used the Life Without Bread diet for that. Actually, I went wheat-free first for some months, then grain free for a month or two, then ketogenic, and finally extremely low carb ketogenic, over the course of more than a year. The biggest changes appeared when I went grain-free.

I am going grain free now as well. I was eating UDI's Gluten Free Millet-Chia bread but I will no longer be eating it now or in the future. I will read the Life Without Bread thread (Thank you for mentioning it!). As I do so I will continue to read and learn the details so I can eventually participate in the KD experiment. I think I may give blood today and see where I am at now. Perhaps it will be useful data in the future when I do participate in the KD experiment.

I personally don't take a supplement unless it is recommended for a particular symptom that I have or, in the case of starting out, to help with the transition. I used a few of the supplements suggested in Primal Body, Primal Mind, and a few based on those recommended in Detoxify or Die. I can't say that any of them have made much difference, although one of them -- vitamin C -- could possibly have been doing damage in my particular situation, and I reacted negatively to bile salts. There is nothing about supplements that makes them intrinsicly "safe."

I agree that there is nothing about supplements that make them intrinsically safe. The more I learn the more it seems that barely anything is safe to eat! The supplements I am taking are geared towards getting my brain back into balance. I am still experimenting with dosage. I realized yesterday that I should not take 400 mg 5-HTP along with 800 mg of Velvet Bean extract. I think taking Velvet Bean extract at all is probably counter productive to balance in my case.

The main things about detoxing are the following:

1) Probably everyone who eats wheat, grains in general, dairy (except butter) has a leaky gut. Healing the gut is first priority.

2) A healed gut and proper diet that stimulates the liver to increased activity will naturally detox many things from the body.

3) Many plant based substances are loaded with anti-nutrients and cause more harm than good.

4) Fiber irritates the colon and should be reduced to almost nil gradually. Thus, fiber based detox/cleansers are dangerous. (They nearly killed one of our members.)

5) The most important elements to detox are heavy metals.

Thank you for this Laura. I have started taking N-Acetyl-Cysteine to aid with heavy metal/liver detox. I also have a heavy metal cleanse that I purchased 5 years ago but never took so I will incorporate it as well. I will look to see if there is a thread about the benefits/risks of coffee enemas. I've thought about it but not sure if I'm comfortable doing it! I will search the forum on healing the gut to see any changes I will need to make.

...
3) Many plant based substances are loaded with anti-nutrients and cause more harm than good.

4) Fiber irritates the colon and should be reduced to almost nil gradually. Thus, fiber based detox/cleansers are dangerous. (They nearly killed one of our members.)
...

That can be a problem with these paleo recipe books. They may overemphasize plant food and fiber. I have found, though, that fiber comes in different 'flavors' and that once you entirely eliminate grains you will probably not encounter anything nearly as abrasive and damaging.

I don't believe there is much of ANYTHING worse than "healthy whole grains" for mechanically shredding your GI tract. It was literally making me bleed, and that all stopped when I stopped eating that crud.

Fiber does have a place in a paleo diet, however, as "prebiotic" food for bacteria in the colon. If you eat the right kinds of fiber, from low-carb plant foods (that you will want to test for sensitivity), they are largely indigestible to us directly, but the gut bacteria ferment them and product useful byproducts including short-chain fats. Depending on your particular gut flora, though, it may be necessary to strictly limit certain prebiotics (the so-called FODMAPs) to avoid problems with over-active bacteria. These problems may or may not resolve over time, but should resolve if you can address all of your inflammation issues.

Even "friendly" low-FODMAP fiber can be overdone. If you eat enough of it, it increases stool bulk and can stretch out the GI tract. More is not better, although you should be able to learn to gage what is going on. And you have to watch it because all plants contain anti-nutrients. The reason a given person can eat one plant and not another is that we have our own anti-nutrient defenses. They vary, however, from one individual to another -- hence the need for food testing (and even that may not easily detect everything; especially when you have multiple active sensitivities).

There is an interesting video from AHS 2012, appropriately entitled Little Shop of Horrors, that has quite a bit to say about plant anti-nutrients. You will never look at broccoli the same way after watching it. :)

Plant-based diets are often touted as healthy, and yet many plants contain clever protective chemicals, carefully crafted by evolutionary forces over millennia, to serve the needs of the plant, rather than to nourish the human body. Many of these compounds are potentially toxic to animal cells, and include naturally-occurring pesticides, mineral chelators, and antibiotics.

What does FODMAP mean?

Thank you for sharing the video it was very informative and helpful as well.

 

[mcb]

I am going pretty low/no grain but I still include a fair amount of veggies in my diet, should that be a no go?

You need to have good nutrient sources in your diet. If you are eating high-quality meats -- and especially organ meats -- prepared so as to preserve nutrients and not overcooked -- and if you are getting plenty of sunlight and clean air and water (which influence and enable nutrient assimilation) then you may not need much if anything from plants.

Otherwise you may be able to improve your nutrient intake using plants -- I think of plant foods as the real "supplements." You must, however, test plant foods to see if you are sensitive to them, and if you have certain health problems you may want to steer away from certain plant families, particularly nightshades. Too much fiber is also not a good thing, although it may be a long time before your realize the damage that has been done.

These principles are mostly well known in the paleo/primal community (maybe with the exception of excess fiber) and any good cookbook should at least mention them. You may also pick up other misinformation, but you have to start somewhere and you will still be doing better than you would with standard western diet and processed foods. You may have to remove toxic foods like grains, processed food, and vegetable oils before you try to understand more. This stuff messes with your mind!

 

[mcb]

I have heard the authors of that book speak, and I am planning to buy it at some point and go through it. A major selling point is that it features simple, easy-to-prepare recipes, although I will have to see that for myself.

It does feature simple, easy-to-prepare recipes. However, some of them require ingredients which increase the carbohydrate intake above what I feel to be within the Paleo range. It is my impression that the total carb intake/day for a Paleo Diet is approx. 20g/day OSIT.

"Paleo" does not mean low-carb, and I would not even suggest diving into a low-carb ketogenic diet without doing the recommended reading -- all of it. I found the Life Without Bread 72 g/d diet to work quite well. You could start an Atkins-style low carb diet with a 20 g/d "induction", but if you were following the Atkins diet you would still be consuming mounds of toxic crap so what's the point. And if you follow KD recommendations from other sources, many of them are biased by "ketophobia" and will subtly program you with the idea that KDs are maybe/somehow dangerous. Pretty much ALL of the other KD recommendations steer away from what we have been doing here as "too dangerous." So I would say forget KD at first and detox your food/water intake, your environment (getting rid of toxic plastics, household chemicals, etc.), and your body in preparation, and do the reading.

...

I personally don't take a supplement unless it is recommended for a particular symptom that I have or, in the case of starting out, to help with the transition. I used a few of the supplements suggested in Primal Body, Primal Mind, and a few based on those recommended in Detoxify or Die. I can't say that any of them have made much difference, although one of them -- vitamin C -- could possibly have been doing damage in my particular situation, and I reacted negatively to bile salts. There is nothing about supplements that makes them intrinsicly "safe."

I agree that there is nothing about supplements that make them intrinsically safe. The more I learn the more it seems that barely anything is safe to eat! The supplements I am taking are geared towards getting my brain back into balance. I am still experimenting with dosage. I realized yesterday that I should not take 400 mg 5-HTP along with 800 mg of Velvet Bean extract. I think taking Velvet Bean extract at all is probably counter productive to balance in my case.

Modern diet is really twisted. Traditional (agriculturally-based) diet was bad, but the present situation is somewhat of an unmitigated disaster. I am not sure how realistic it is to believe that an uncompromising real-food diet is possible in an urban setting, especially if working at an office job. You may have to ship most of your food in frozen, depending on where you live, and you are still likely to be missing other non-food influences that are vital to health. But you can do what you can do and it will be a vast improvement over doing nothing.

Edit: Offices are also full of outgassing from toxic building materials, cleaning chemical vapors, "air freshener" toxins, and pervasive EMF, while restricting access to sunlight and fresh air, and encouraging too much sitting. My compromise currently is to only go in three days a week.

What does FODMAP mean?
...

Sorry, I glossed over that for time reasons. This article may be helpful as a starting point:

_http://chriskresser.com/got-digestive-problems-take-it-easy-on-the-veggies

 

[mcb]

Vegetables are Not the Holy Grail

Another take on vegetables:
_http://paleodietlifestyle.com/vegetables

A couple of snips from the article:

...
Vegetables and the Perfect Food Syndrome

Maybe it’s just part of human nature to constantly be searching for the One True Solution to all our problems. The monthly rotation of new “miracle foods” certainly takes advantage of that urge (acai berries? Green tea? Chia seeds? Resveratrol?). But even if you don’t succumb to each new fad, it’s definitely possible to get too fixated on one specific food or food group as the ultimate in nutrition: the Perfect Food Syndrome.

Vegetables are one example of this. Run a Google image search for “healthy food” and you’ll turn up picture after picture of lovingly arranged carrots and broccoli. The individual emotional response to this is huge – digging into a huge bowl of spinach just feels virtuous. It’s very easy to get stuck in the mindset that all vegetables are healthy for all people at all times, that there’s no such thing as too many veggies. Some people take it to an incredible extreme by going on vegetable juice cleanses, drinking only vegetable juice for days at a time to “detox” or lose weight faster.

Paleo isn’t a crazy juicing cleanse, but even on Paleo it’s possible to get caught up in eating too many vegetables, or eating them for the wrong reasons. Even after reading all about how fat won’t make them fat, some people are still nervous about all the calories, saturated fat, and cholesterol in red meat. They don’t want to go back to grains, but they’re not quite willing to take the leap of faith and enjoy their steak, so they substitute endless piles of salad. Other people are afraid of the carnal pleasure of eating meat, and eating vegetables gives them that ascetic pleasure of doing their nutritional duty. They “fill up” with vegetables because they’re afraid of their own appetites.

In both of these cases, vegetables are “safe” foods because they’re Paleo-approved but don’t stray away from conventional nutritional advice either. But eating a diet with too many vegetables relative to the amount of meat and eggs deprives your body of the energy and nutrients it needs to thrive. Paleo isn’t just about getting rid of grains; it’s about substituting animal products (not vegetables!) as a staple source of calories.

This article takes on some of the dangers of eating too many vegetables relative to meat and animal products. It can seem pretty discouraging to learn about the downsides of all those leafy greens, but bear in mind the big picture: it’s not that vegetables are unhealthy; it’s that all foods have their benefits and drawbacks. Nothing is beneficial if you eat it to excess, or if it crowds out other foods that you also need. Vegetables don’t provide all the micronutrients a human body needs, and the benefits aren’t limitless: there comes a point where eating more isn’t better. As part of a balanced diet, they’re indispensable. As a “miracle cure” on their own, or as an answer to emotional needs, they’re ineffective at best.
...

...
Vegetable Sensitivity

Vegetables aren’t only incomplete sources of nutrients; for some people they can be downright harmful. First of all, vegetables are like grains and legumes in that they need to develop natural pesticides to survive. They can’t run away from insects, fungi, or other predators, so they rely on chemical defenses.

Many common vegetables (like zucchini, rhubarb, and bamboo shoots) contain a variety of toxins for this reason. The famous antioxidants that make vegetables so healthy are actually part of the plant’s natural defenses against predators. If you’re eating the plant, that predator is you. That isn’t to say that the antioxidants are actually dangerous – they are healthy, but they’re healthy as a hormetic stress: your body reacts to the challenge by bouncing back stronger than it was before. Hormetic stress is valuable in small amounts, but too much of it is just as dangerous as any other kind of stress...