Rashes and Sudden Tooth Abscess

H

HowToBe

The Living Force
You can skip this paragraph if you have less time to read:
My family has taken the dive and gone to a meat-based diet. My mom doesn't have blood sugar lows anymore and her abdominal fat has softened, which may mean it's getting ready to start shrinking (so we think). However, we are having trouble getting enough and quality meat. We've only been able to afford chicken from a local health food store, which is very cheap at $1.79 a pound. Recently we learned that we are getting what we pay for, as the chickens are fed corn and soybeans, and are not organic (although they are antibiotic and additive free). We got some ketosis urinalysis strips and verified that we are living in ketosis, though. Our budget is very stringent and we can only afford about $100 worth of food in a week. Recently we've been stocking up on about 21 lbs. of meat each week, plus some bacon, eggs and butter, but I might be sensitive to the butter. We've also been using coconut flour and a bit of veggies, but not much. I'm guessing I'm very likely sensitive to something considering the problems I'm having. My brother and mom have not had any such problems so far.

However, about two weeks ago I suddenly got three rashes: one covering my lower back/upper buttocks, a circular one on my left side which has spread outwardly since appearing, and some patches that have been moving around my groin area. About the time these rashes appeared (I'm not sure if it was before or after), I had been in town on a hot day with no air conditioning in the car with the rest of the family, and gradually got a headache; the familiar type of headache I used to get which is accompanied by a stiff neck and just keeps getting worse and worse until I either take a painkiller or manage to sleep it off (if I'm lucky). I had had no carbs for a couple days, and in desperation I tried drinking some almond milk we had in the fridge (from the store), being careful about the carb count. It actually reduced my headache! Anyway, no headaches since then, but the rashes have not gone away, although they don't itch as much as when they first appeared. It's been about two weeks so it seems to deserve some attention.

More disturbing, though, is that my left front tooth on the top of my mouth (left incisor), has suddenly become abscessed and painful, and the abscess has become pretty large. It's up in the root, just under my nose, and extends down to the gums between my top front teeth. This evening the visible part of the abscess on my gum turned dark red, and then it opened up, so I drained it as well as I could and rinsed my mouth with salt water. I've been attacking it with remedies all day; I tried oil pulling for the first time this morning, I rinsed with hydrogen peroxide once yesterday and once today, and I've had three cups of green tea, and I also gave it a treatment with raw garlic after it had opened up and mostly stopped draining. We don't have DMSO or activated charcoal, or I would tackle it with those too. Either the garlic or the partial draining draining has relieved the pain quite remarkably, although the area under my nose is still visibly swollen.

I have a dentist's appointment tomorrow morning, so we'll see what happens. Any advice about what to do if I get prescribed antibiotics or anything like that? The tooth in question has a cavity on the side, was drilled and filled once in a different cavity when I was a kid, and it is very slightly darker than my other front tooth, which I suppose indicates that the tooth might be dead inside?
 
Have you read ALL of the Life Without Bread thread before embarking on this experiment?
 
Unfortunately not. I have been reading it regularly , and I thought I had the general idea pretty well, but I guess "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"... Should we revert to our previous way of eating? Maybe I've done something really stupid, eh? :scared:
 
Okay, I went in to the dentist today, and he drilled the core out of the tooth from behind, and it is being left open to drain until the abscess goes down. As I had suspected, the tooth in question was dead inside (I had noticed that it was slightly darker than the other teeth), and he was able to do the root canal painlessly with no anesthesia.

The dentist has prescribed me ibuprofen and "ciprofloxasin hydrochloride", which I'm learning is a member of the "fluoroquinolones" class of antibiotics. I'm supposed to take three a day for the next two days, then two a day until the next appointment. I'm concerned by the stuff since it's got fluoride in it, and has side effects like tendonitis (swelling or rupture of tendon), and Central Nervous System side effects like dizzyness, siezures, depression, suicidal thoughts or actions, etc.

What he wants to do at the next appointment, from what I understand, is to fill it with a "medicated filling". He also told me that the tooth will need a crown... He seemed to somewhat mystified by what exactly had caused the abscess. From what he said to my mom (I wasn't present), my teeth were healthy overall so he figured it must be an old injury coming back or something. I DID have an abscess in a different part of my gum last year, which went away on its own, and I wonder if that might be related.

I expressed my concerns about mercury fillings, and he practically laughed at me. He said, "Are you a dentist?" to affirm his "authority" and later said "You can't believe everything you read on the internet." (and had not said anything about the internet or what I had read, so apparently he has encountered this) I didn't argue with him since I didn't think it would serve any puprose, but I have to figure out what to do before the next appointment. He told me that they don't use "silver fillings" in front teeth, but I'm guessing that the medicated fillings contain mercury since he was being sort of cagey. He gave me a spiel about how mercury fillings are "the best thing out there" and that they are approved by all the health agencies, how he's been a dentist for 30 years, and so on. So obviously he must use them a lot.

I need to get this abscess under control somehow. I read the following thread (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,19761.0.html) and I'm going to try the things recommended there.

...
Since I typed the above, we have contacted a "biological dentist" (mercury free) in a nearby town, and thankfully our insurance will cover them, so it looks like we can cancel my appointment with the current dentist and go there. We got some detailed info over the phone with them, and I've been advised not to take the antibiotics. So it seems the outlook has improved somewhat.

I'll update this thread as things change.
 
HowToBe, you may want to try cutting out the coconut flour for a while and see what that does. Some people cannot tolerate coconut. I can't even use coconut oil on my skin, it bothers me that much.

Just something to try.
 
IMO, avoiding fluoroquinolones is a good idea in this circumstance. From my understanding, these drugs act by inhibiting DNA synthesis, and are NOT particularly specific about choosing the bacteria's DNA over yours. Having a small localized abscess in your mouth doesn't seem to warrant an antibiotic that works like chemotherapy (but hey, I'm not a dentist).

I have not read the Life Without Bread thread, but I know from experience and other sources that changing your diet can result in any number of healing crises. If your main source of meat is corn/soy fed chicken it may behoove you to remove the skins, as chicken skins from birds fed this way will most likely contain lots of inflammatory fatty acids. Nothing to back this up really, just something rattling around in my brain that I've read before. May contribute to rash or inflammation. If you're only recently getting into ketosis for the first time you can expect some mental fogginess/headaches/fatigue (again, only my experience).

I understand you have limited funds available. One resource that I think might be affordable and worthwhile would be to purchase bulk animal fat online (do you live in the US??). I can personally recommend Slanker's (_www.texasgrassfedbeef.com --> Meat store home page), as I've ordered from there myself (I have no affiliation other than being a customer). I'm also familiar with (and I've seen them recommended on this site) U.S. Wellness Meats (_www.grasslandbeef.com). I know sometimes Slanker's is lacking in tallow, which is the rendered fat, but they've always had some form of suet (unrendered fat) available when I've ordered. US Wellness meats I believe would have suet or tallow in stock most always (I don't know that for sure). Tallow is easier to work with, but eating either may not float your boat at first. IMO basing your diet around animal fats is the way to go as they are healthy, affordable, and calorie dense.

So the fat I think is affordable (~$3-6/lb at Slanker's, ~$4-7/lb at USWM). The more fat you can get in your diet I think your need for protein will decrease (I've read about No/Very-Low-Carb dieters at 80/20 or even higher ratios of fat/protein calorie percentages having success; the classic ketogenic diet uses 4:1 ratio by weight of fat/protein).

A somewhat alternative idea to "low-carb"/ketogenic would be "moderate-carb"(can be ketogenic w/intermittent fast or coconut oil). You could check out _www.perfecthealthdiet.com (again no affiliation with this site). The people who run the site are a husband/wife team of scientists, and their work is very diligently researched. To boil it down they recommend you get around 50-70% calories from fat, with carbs and protein together accounting for ~800Kcal (they recommend 100-150g carb, notably "safe starches" which don't have allergenic proteins like wheat/barley/rye or corn, which amounts to 600-800Kcal, and between 200-400Kcal protein, or about 50-100g protein). This is provided on The Diet section of the site. Other sources that advocate something similar are _www.archevore.com, run by an MD, _wholehealthsource.blogspot.com, run by a research student who studies brain and hormonal control of body weight, and also worth looking at is _www.high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com, run by a UK vet who advocates more very high fat with limited sugars/starch.

I rail on this because in my experience protein is what is so expensive. I've also tinkered around my diet for some time and come to be most comfortable with mostly not being in ketosis, instead taking in sufficient carbs to avoid this state and it's associated fatigue/mental fog (although it certainly has value! and there are days when I don't eat breakfast or start with coffee/butter/coconut oil and likely am in ketosis for some time). I generally find this way of eating less stressful overall than being in prolonged ketosis. I realize you may have reasons you want to be in ketosis, say to make your body efficient at burning fat or maybe you need to lose some weight. IMO, this isn't the best thing over the long haul but we're all different with different needs and so it's just some more "food for thought".

Ok so now that I've presented you with my sacred cow, how and which parts of it to eat, and even links to affirm my beliefs and more links where you can purchase it like I do (making the assumption you live in the US), I'll move on to briefly address what you were actually asking about in the post... Silver hydrosol (similar to colloidal silver, but different) is a pretty broad spectrum antimicrobial (viruses, bacteria, fungi, parasites) that would have easy access to the abscess in your mouth and I think would be effective. I purchased a small bottle from NOW brand, Silver Sol, at my local (but very, very well-stocked) health food store for $17USD. You might want to shop online. I've seen good posts on the forum by Rabelais about it, and seen it mentioned in transcripts as helping to take care of l-bacteria (mycobacteria?). You mentioned you were using garlic, which is also a great idea. Perhaps some diluted organic apple cider vinegar might be worth a shot. Oil pulling is also a good idea in general, even when you don't have an abscess in your mouth. For your rash, castor oil packs or aloe vera could be beneficial, especially the aloe if it is itching a lot. Your body can do some weird things with histamine. This breakout could be something along the lines of mobilizing stored histamine from body tissues. Another pet theory of mine (along with that diet stuff) is orthomolecular medicine, and the ideas of "histadelia" and "histapenia". These things relate to the methylation cycle, with the most tangible result being a high or low level of histamine in the blood. Histamine is generally a mediator of allergic reactions, like when you get a rash or hives. These topics are entirely dismissed by mainstream medicine, which sounds to me like a ringing endorsement. Might want to research this in particular if you suffer from any psychological issues with anxiety.

I know health issues popping up make life most difficult in general, but I think you're doing well being so proactive to make positive changes and in seeking out proper care that fits with your intuition. Hang in there, wish you well!


p.s. I'm interested by the idea of being sensitive to coconut oil, Nienna, I'll look into that. My understanding was/is that most sensitivity to food was from allergenic proteins, but if you notice it when putting it on your skin that's a pretty darn good indication of sensitivity. Perhaps it's a reaction between it and your resident skin flora? Also on this note HowToBe you might want to experiment with eggs a bit to see if you're sensitive to those. Egg white albumin is a pretty ubiquitous allergen. Also, why do you think you're sensitive to butter? Have you had butter isolated and it's caused a reaction? Or was it with scrambled eggs or something? Butter and coconut oil are my morning diesel fuel, mixed in 12oz good coffee for the chemical caffeine stimulation and palatability; this is probably what's fueling the energy output of this post haha.
 
I will describe my experiences here so you may have a better idea how things are for us.

I live with the original poster and I haven't experienced any of his symptoms (although I've suffered other more trivial symptoms). He is older than me so maybe I should just wait my turn. Still, he hasn't seemed to have any problems with Ketosis as an energy source. He tests the highest on the Ketostix, IIRC 80 or above, while I usually test between 40 and 80. I have had a lot more energy problems than he has; he hardly seems to need any carbs at all.

4:1 ratio of fat to protein is pretty extreme, and our mother would surely insist on a stash of fallback foods if that doesn't work out (and we would do that anyways). The incredibly gratuitous servings of fat freak her out. We typically each eat 1 chicken thigh per day, 2 or more eggs, and up to several tablespoons of butter. Most of it is eaten in the morning; sometimes I make myself a few eggs later. Every few days or so we make up a batch of coconut or buckwheat bread (I have found buckwheat causes me problems, so I try to stick with coconut). Chicken thighs and eggs, along with celery and maybe collard greens are usually the only things in our fridge that we venture to eat; we cannot afford any better solutions we have considered. Sometimes we make a small soup with the veggies and some meat if we have it. I used to need to keep up my energy by eating a can of green beans, spinach, or peas (from our stash of canned food which still isn't exhausted since before going Keto), but after a while that became unnecessary.

There was a time close to the beginning of the diet where I was having energy problems, where I noticed that I did not have problems if I was up walking around. Sitting in front of the computer most of the time seems to have worse consequences on the new diet. So when I have the opportunity, I go out and spend 15 to 30 minutes outside at 12:00 under the sun, and then climb a tree and do 8 pull ups so far. This had an immediate and positive effect on my energy levels. After several days that stopped working, I had much less energy and it seemed nothing would get my energy back up. Then I had the bowel movement from hell and things improved pretty quickly after that. I suspect it may be a gut flora issue, because I had a similar problem before, where it seemed my body couldn't digest whatever I ate, so I ate a large serving of organic live-culture yoghurt and that started everything up again (our diet doesn't have any yeast-feeding foods, so I suspected I may be having die-off symptoms). During these times I've shown some symptoms of gut flora issues (candida?), but never enough of them in combination to be a certainty. I've also considered it may be detox symptoms. (on the night after the hellish bowel movement I woke up sweaty and smelling like mildew in the sweaty places, which reinforced my suspicion that it was a yeast thing)

We have almond milk, though I usually don't touch it because it's sweetened with cane juice. It tastes very good with ascorbic acid/lemon bioflavanoid powder (over 4g) however and I found that when taken that way it did not throw me out of ketosis (I haven't tested it without the powder). My body seems to be more tolerant of sugar than it used to be when I started the diet.

We have Xylitol but it is the corn-derived variety and I found it gave me serious cold/sore throat symptoms, so we don't use it. We haven't tried the birch tree type. I use Stevia instead but not regularly.

Before financial problems, we usually had a decent amount of beef we used, more recently we had been using organs meats such as liver, kidney, heart. But we've been reduced to chicken thighs of late, and occasional bacon.
 
Nienna Eluch said:
HowToBe, you may want to try cutting out the coconut flour for a while and see what that does. Some people cannot tolerate coconut. I can't even use coconut oil on my skin, it bothers me that much.

Just something to try.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my intuition has started leaning in this direction recently. This abscess seems to have started rather quickly after I had eliminated coconut for a week, then reintroduced it, but I'm not sure that was the cause. I'm certainly going to avoid the stuff for a while to be safe.

To answer Resistense's question about butter: I have noticed that my throat seems to produce phlegm after I eat butter, although I haven't done enough isolation to be sure that it is the butter causing this. My impression is that the phlegm is a sign that my throat is wanting to protect itself from something, but I've got to figure out what.

Since the problem seems to have started deep in the root of the dead tooth before spreading down into the gums, rather than starting inside the mouth itself, I get the impression that this sudden reaction was very likely caused by something systemic happening. This tooth has not bothered me for months, although I have suspected for a long time that it was dead.

Currently, it is still swollen up, but still no more pain or headaches, although my neck is a little stiff. The color of the visible part of the swelling has gone from dark red yesterday night, to a more pinkish color like the surrounding gums, so it seems there is some recovery.

The only change is that my urine was orange last night and after waking today. It's a different color than the yellow caused by taking B vitamins, and has a different smell. I looked this up and found this page:
_http://www.redurine.com/urine_color/orange_urine.html
Orange Urine From Dehydration
Orange or dark urine is typically a sign of dehydration. In cases of dehydration, orange urine may be an even earlier warning sign than thirst, so monitor your urine color and incorporate more fluids into your diet if you see orange urine.
[...]
Liver Problems Cause Orange Urine
If cases of liver problems or liver disease, the liver can not do its job of red blood cell metabolism and is not able to help in the excretion of byproducts. Bilirubin is a byproduct of red blood cell metabolism and when it accumulates, it is sometimes eliminated through urine and creates orange urine.
Click to expand...
There are other entries, but these seemed the most relevant. I'm going to up my water intake. I'm wondering whether I should increase carbs? I haven't been eating many lately and haven't had any since I got sick (haven't felt as hungry as usual). I'm familiar with how urine can darken when one is sick, as things are eliminated. The abscess seems to have shrunken a little bit.

The following site makes the claim that ketosis can cause orange urine, do to the presence of acetone, but I've been in ketosis for weeks and my urine has been clear or yellow (from Vitamin B in my multivitamin). Since this started, I've only taken vitamin C and magnesium, and the biological dentist I'm visiting on monday wants me to avoid vitamin C until the appointment since it is acidic and my tooth is open.

Oh, and by the way, I am not trying to lose weight: I am pretty thin, and if anything I could stand to gain some weight.
 
HowToBe, do you eat liver at all? If you can find a good source of it, it's extremely nutritious and if the urine color analysis you cited is accurate, would help your liver if that was the cause.

Because of how nutritious it is, I usually strive to eat it about once a week (which often ends up being two meals a week, depending on the quantity of liver I have at the time).
 
HowToBe said:
Nienna Eluch said:
HowToBe, you may want to try cutting out the coconut flour for a while and see what that does. Some people cannot tolerate coconut. I can't even use coconut oil on my skin, it bothers me that much.

Just something to try.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my intuition has started leaning in this direction recently. This abscess seems to have started rather quickly after I had eliminated coconut for a week, then reintroduced it, but I'm not sure that was the cause. I'm certainly going to avoid the stuff for a while to be safe.
Click to expand...

Actually, I was thinking more about the rash.
 
Perhaps the best way would be to take pictures of the rash before each meal, write down what you ate, and after there are enough pictures and notes compare them all.
 
Hi HowToBe,

From some of your responses, it seems that you really don't have a good enough grasp on what you're doing and more importantly why. Please finish the Life Without Bread thread if you're going to do the diet without harming yourself. It's important that you either do it correctly and safely or not at all.
 
Okay, I've been trying to get up the nerve to post here for a few weeks. The whole situation overwhelmed me and I started dissociating and running away rather than facing squarely the feedback I received. I was afraid to post further because I wasn't making as much progress in reading the Life Without Bread thread as I felt I should, and because I really couldn't see a way back as far as diet is concerned. But I should have posted about this rather than running away. This was stupid and I am a machine.

Here's what has happened since I last posted:
We went to a biological dentist, who started me on an ozone injection therapy that's supposed to kill bacteria, viruses, yeasts, etc. in the gums. We did this for 6 visits over about a month and a half, but the infection seemed to die down and then return, then die down again. At this point our diet was more or less the same as I described before because I didn't know what to do in that regard. I should have networked about it but I was too stupid and cowardly. $1,500 later, treatments are over as of about three weeks ago, yet my gum was still oozing on and off. At some point I allowed some sugar to start slipping in (a lot of dissociation going on), but in the midst of this a pattern started to become clear; although the sugar would cause an increase in inflammation initially, by the next day the swelling would be down almost entirely with no pus. So the sugar was no-go, but I figured it was the carbs that were having the effect, and testing confirmed this. So currently what I'm doing is getting a supply of sweet potato for myself each week, and having a portion of that each day (which seems to equate to maybe 30-50g carbs per day, plus a bit of carbs we get from veggies at meals). The swelling on my gum has gone down and it's no longer oozing. It appears to be healing

About the rashes: There are two distinct types I had. One was fleeting, and seemed to appear when my carb intake dropped too low for too long; itchy bruise-like spots would appear on my back just above my buttocks. These would lose their dark red color within a day or so of me eating some carbs, and then would gradually fade away. These were accompanied by a mildly itchy rash in my pubic area which would also leave when I got carbs, which I figure to be part of the same phenomena. I don't have this anymore, and it only happened briefly twice.

The second rash is different: It is made of very small bumps. It started as an oval shaped patch on the left side of my chest, and over time it spread outward, but died off in the center. It spread outward in a ring, which then broke when it reached my hip and armpit. So one patch migrated around to my back where it has nearly completely gone away (I can feel a slight roughness, but not see anything), while the other moved across my abdomen toward the right. It seems less active now that things are getting stabilized. I've not been able to find any pictures online that look like it. It certainly doesn't look like ringworm.

I'm wondering if these symptoms are explained by candida? Maybe I have an infection that gets angry when my carbs get too low, and it triggers an autoimmune response?

As far as diet in general goes, I'm not sure what to do. At the moment we've been eating about 56g of protein each per day, and about 88g of fat. We've been making "stir frys" (probably more like "steam fry") with just enough frozen veggies to incorporate the fat. We are in the process of securing a source of bones for broth, and I think just today I've found a place where we can get plenty of grass-fed beef tallow for free. I am the only one of the three of us to have any problems, but I don't want to be putting any of us in danger. I'm wondering whether we should stay the course, or whether it is advisable to allow more carbs in (even if they are not ideal, like rice, beans, or potatoes) until I'm completely read up on the LWB thread. I know truth seeker already answered this, but I want to verify that the advice still applies with the information I have given. My mom has had several improvements in her problems since we started eating this way, so she might be reluctant to change things. My brother as well.

I make the food; I can't use buckwheat or quinoa because my mom can't stand them (I cook for all of us and don't have time to make my own food separately). If nightshades, grains, and beans (mom is allergic, brother can't digest them well) are out as well, there aren't many sources of carbs to get energy from, if we do loosen up on the diet we've been doing. This would probably mean that binging on bad foods would end up occurring.

I'm really sorry for taking up your time with this. I am reading the Life Without Bread thread, and I'm stepping up my efforts now that I'm getting up the nerve to stop running away from the issue. Hopefully I can hold myself together and face this.
 
HowToBe, you need to read the Ketogenic thread, it starts here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28799.0.html

Rashes are common in some people as part of the transitioning and having enough fat and the bone broth is a way to counteract them. Also getting enough digestive enzymes and HCl to help you digest better will help. But your rash can be a fungal infection and other than the ketogenic diet, a topical treatment might take care of it.
 
Psyche said:
HowToBe, you need to read the Ketogenic thread, it starts here:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28799.0.html

Rashes are common in some people as part of the transitioning and having enough fat and the bone broth is a way to counteract them. Also getting enough digestive enzymes and HCl to help you digest better will help. But your rash can be a fungal infection and other than the ketogenic diet, a topical treatment might take care of it.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'll start making my way through that one as well. I've already read a little bit there since my brother introduced me to it. I'm currently taking digestive enzymes at the recommendation of the dentist, and I found a brand that includes ox bile.
 
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