Reading Gurdjieff

[that_guy]

I have recently been reading many of G's works and have had some thoughts coming in from an outside source before and during reading. While reading 'Life is Real' I kept having the thought apple of my eye and low and behold at the end of the book he uses this phrase at least twice.

I am currently in the middle of 'Beelzebub's tales to his Grandson' and am continuing to have the thought "I thought I'd died and gone to heaven." I'm not sure what to make of these thoughts that seem to be generated by an external source but am curious if anyone else has had this happen to them while perusing his materials.

 

[HiThere]

During the reading of books of/by Gurdjieff, I had an increased awareness of thought patterns that didn't always feel natural to my ordinary thought process. I also had an experience where what I percieved to be an imposter of G were trying to establish a bond with me. It might be wise to be alert about any new fellings/thoughts and practice active discernment while reading these texts, as in all else. M2C.

 

[that_guy]

How does a person go about discerning between a genuine hyperdimensional teacher and an old fashioned 4D trickster? What are the criteria?

 

[ana]

How does a person go about discerning between a genuine hyperdimensional teacher and an old fashioned 4D trickster? What are the criteria?

I think there is no need for us to look for an "hyperdimensional teacher", if you are really interested in knowing, then researching, interacting and paying attention to reality are the best tools.
The best way we can be deceived is the preconceived idea that any specific source can offer all the necessary knowledge.

 

[that_guy]

Ana,

While reading 'Life is Real Only Then, When 'I Am' I was reminded of a portion of the book starting on pg 28 while nearing the works conclusion. This seemingly telepathic suggestion prompted me to return to that page and reread the material. It was there that I discovered G expressing his need to

"Mobilize all the capacities and possibilities in my common presence, both personally achieved and those inherited, and until the moment of the arrival of the next new year, which moment is that of my appearance on God's Earth, to discover some possible means of satisfactorily emerging from such a situation."

"If unable to discover this means, then, on the evening of the last day of the year, to begin to destroy all my writings, calculating the time so as, at midninght with the last page, to destroy myself also."

When I read these words I took them to mean without a method to ensure the survival of his work as he desired it to be applied he would commit suicide and destroy his writings. We know he didn't take his own life and his works are with us today so he must have found a way. It may be possible he reconciled this problem by learning he would be able to communicate with a network after death.

I never went looking for a hyperdimesional teacher but given the circumstances am trying to understand the possibility that a network may already be in place. If this is the case how do you know whether or not it is real or just the tricksters leading you astray?

 

[obyvatel]

When I read these words I took them to mean without a method to ensure the survival of his work as he desired it to be applied he would commit suicide and destroy his writings. We know he didn't take his own life and his works are with us today so he must have found a way. It may be possible he reconciled this problem by learning he would be able to communicate with a network after death.

Did G mean what he wrote in the literal sense - or was he trying to express something else? Or did he just change his mind later? I do not know the answers - just throwing the ideas out there for you to consider possibilities other than the one you came up with.


[quote author=that_guy]
I never went looking for a hyperdimesional teacher but given the circumstances am trying to understand the possibility that a network may already be in place. If this is the case how do you know whether or not it is real or just the tricksters leading you astray?
[/quote]

What do you think the C's are? How do you think Laura and crew work on this problem of "real" or "tricksters" in this context? Maybe revisiting the basic tenets of the cassiopaean experiment and how it is based on sound scientific principles rather than the "magical thinking" (which almost everyone looking for hyperdimensional teachers fall prey to) may be helpful to find answers to your questions?

 

[that_guy]

Obyvatel,

I don't know if he meant these words in a literal sense or not but was lead to this conclusion by a suggestion by what seemed to be the same outside source reccomending I reread. The source also made the suggestion I look up Axis Mundi which lead me to this possibility. I should have mentioned this in the previous post and regret not being forthright in explainging all the details of how I came to this possibility.

I also don't know if he could have changed his mind later or not. I have only just begun to attempt to understand the meaning of his work but my impression is that he was a serious man who probably would not be willy-nilly about such a matter.

There is also the mention of him seeing his deceased wife with two peacocks in the garden which symbolize immortality in some cultures.

I don't have access to a computer or books at the moment so I am unable to cite the passage or the symbolism of the peacock as I am limited by my mobile phone and lack of expertise on such a device.

All possibilities are up in the air at the moment and the thing I'm trying to avoid most is my own self importance which has been a major stumbling block in the past. I recognize it is also a favorite hook of 4D STS and another reason I want to make sure I'm on the right path.

I think the C's are a conciously channeled source from 6th density and have learned a great deal from the material. At the same time it doesn't negate the possibility of a concious group of humans existing and assisting people in their individual work communicating telepathically.

I think they work on the problem of discerment by carefully evaluating the materials and keeping the manipulated variables to a minimum. This includes doing the research on all clues given to enhance their awareness.

I'm not doubting the expertise of the C's as us in the future but also don't subscribe to the possibility of telepathic communication being "magical thinking" if that's what you were infering. I may be mistaken.

My quandry at the moment though is attempting to understand the origin of the source of information entering my conciousness so that I may start searching for a remedy if it is transmitted by an undesirable source.

Currently the recurring thoughts of "step up to the plate" which I haven taken to mean contributing to the forum.

"No free lunch" which typically takes place while wading through Beelzebubs Tales.

"Teachers pet" seems to be another play at my self importance

"Deal with it"

"Own it"

"Who's laughing now"

And the ever incessant "I thought I'd died and gone to heaven" which I have no idea what it may pertain to.

All of these phrases and many more ring through my head while reading forcing me to maintain my attention to the information at hand. This has made the process of comprehending G's masterpiece, 'Beelzebubs Tales', increasingly difficult but nontheless rewarding.

I am wondering if anyone has had similar experiences? Are there any reccomendations for protecting oneself from these intrusions? Is there a possibility it mas meant to be read this way?

 

[obyvatel]

I think the C's are a conciously channeled source from 6th density and have learned a great deal from the material. At the same time it doesn't negate the possibility of a concious group of humans existing and assisting people in their individual work communicating telepathically.

It could well be possible. But is it likely - that could be a question to ponder maybe? If there are conscious human beings (means embodied to me) why would they choose to communicate telepathically and not use regular earthly modes of communication ? If they are not human beings then these entities may be using other modes of communication. 4D use a technique that the C's called "free formal imaging". A directed wave of information can be sent into a target using means which we do not comprehend.

[quote author=Wave Book 3]
Free Formal Imaging. A most interesting concept. I wonder how many people think they have guides or guardian angels and they are really just being manipulated by such messages? And, the above exchange makes it clear that the problem is even more difficult since the Cassiopaeans are suggesting that body chemicals can be manipulated by sound waves, and that these chemicals – including hormones one would guess – affect one’s thinking. As noted earlier, any woman who has ever suffered PMS knows how true that is!
But, excluding normal cyclical fluctuations, it seems that the same PMS-type state, and even others more precisely formulated, can be artificially stimulated in the individual by this sound wave technology. What about stimulation of pleasure chemicals? How easy would it be for them to implant an idea, send a voice message via an idea construct, and then simultaneously stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain so that the individual is washed through and through with warmth and love, thereby being convinced that the idea that is being contemplated is very positive and life affirming when it is, in fact, actually the opposite.
At the same time, we understand one of the means by which an individual can be blocked from retrieving memories by having a pain block installed, and later stimulated.
The point is: it becomes almost impossible to trust one’s emotions when considering this factor. So, again, we see the necessity for knowledge about the environment and thoughtful examination of our internal state at all times in order to avoid such traps.
[/quote]


[quote author=that_guy]
I think they work on the problem of discerment by carefully evaluating the materials and keeping the manipulated variables to a minimum. This includes doing the research on all clues given to enhance their awareness.
[/quote]

I did not understand what you are saying above.

[quote author=that_guy]
I'm not doubting the expertise of the C's as us in the future but also don't subscribe to the possibility of telepathic communication being "magical thinking" if that's what you were infering. I may be mistaken.
[/quote]

Did you ask for telepathic communication? If not, such communication can be looked at as a violation of free-will in spirit at least. And this is what 4D STS does all the "time" apparently. However, STO is said to give only when asked and they treat free-will as sacrosanct - no fine prints and hidden clauses.

On the other hand, it is also possible that your higher self could be communicating with you. Or it could even be parts of your current fragmented self.

Thing is not knowing who the "source" is and how and why they choose to communicate, and given the hyperdimensional hypothesis which basically tells us we are routinely manipulated by entities far more powerful - one can only try to be cautious.

[quote author=that_guy]
My quandry at the moment though is attempting to understand the origin of the source of information entering my conciousness so that I may start searching for a remedy if it is transmitted by an undesirable source.
[/quote]

Maybe you could take the message, see how it affects you - your body, your feelings, your thoughts - and put it into the context of your goals and life situations to see if they are helping or hurting you? Gurdjieff said that one should have an aim and once one has an aim, what helps him in accomplishing his aim is good and what hinders his aim is bad.
So instead of focusing on the source ( there could be more than one) maybe look at the messages and carefully evaluate them on a case by case basis before taking any action based on them.

[quote author=that_guy]
I am wondering if anyone has had similar experiences? Are there any reccomendations for protecting oneself from these intrusions? Is there a possibility it mas meant to be read this way?
[/quote]

I do not know about Beelzeebub's Tales in particular but generally speaking there could be numerous thoughts swimming in one's consciousness at times. Are all these thoughts ours? Here we go into murky territory - how do we know what is ours and what is not - what is beneficial and what is a drain? Articulating short and long term aims along with constant self observation help in a very practical way - osit.

If you feel that you are getting distracted by intrusive thoughts while reading, you could try pipe breathing and focusing on your body postures, muscular tensions etc to achieve a sort of grounding or equilibrium and then go back to reading. Maybe after reading a few pages, you try to let thoughts relevant to what you have read wash over you and you observe these thoughts for a period of time and gain certain insights. After maybe a predetermined period of doing this, you again focus on breath and on your body to get grounded and go back to reading.

My 2 cents fwiw

 

[anart]

At the same time it doesn't negate the possibility of a concious group of humans existing and assisting people in their individual work communicating telepathically.

This would be a violation of Free Will - thus, by your definition, it would be "an old fashioned 4D trickster" - or worse.

I mean no offense by this question, but do you have a history of hearing voices or hallucinatory mental health disorders?

It really comes down to one thing - no benevolent source 'invades' another entity's mind - ever. If you're 'hearing voices', then you can bet they're not 'friendly', no matter how much they may 'feel' or seem friendly - assuming they are not a product of your own mind. fwiw.

 

[Palinurus]

Hi that guy,

I understand your problem and sympathise with you.
I thought maybe this little thread about the origin of thoughts might be helpful.
Have a look here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21686.0.html

 

[that_guy]

Obyvatel,

I wouldn't even know how to begin exploring the likelihood there is a group of concious humanity communicating this way. If we take G's writing to be truth we can assume it to be so but we all know what can happen when you ass u me. Or maybe just me in this case.

They may choose to use telepathy as a favored means of communication because of the obvious benefits it serves for mirroring. When a pupil is naked to the eyes of the teachers and all his/her thoughts exposed it may provide shocks that wouldn't otherwise occur. Theoretically, when communicating in this manor there is no place to hide and all mental associations will be obvious to an entire group of beings. While embarrassing at times, the growth of the student and group may far outweigh the negative side effect of seeing oneself more clearly.

In my experience either real or imaginary the bulk of my work so far has related to having small genitalia. Many negative associations were derived from my self conciousness related to my body. With no place to hide from everything that instigated these thought loops I was forced to deal with it and overcome all the programs I was running related to my manhood. Without telepathic communication this neccesary component of my work would have never come to the stage. While I don't know if this is real or imaginary I am grateful either way for the opportunity to confront these demons.

As far as free formal imaging goes I think it is a very scary possibility. I don't know if I have ever experienced it but the implications are horrendous. After reading the information it sounds like self calming with a built in release of natual chemicals to make a person think they are doing work that isn't actually taking place.

What I meant by that statement is that I think they do a good job of maintaining a clear channel so that they can aquire accurate information. I am not up to speed on requirments for how to go about properly channeling information from 6th density. I think it would require careful discernment of all those present and not mixing in to many new people near the board but I don't really know. The reason I think they do a good job is only apparent in some of the accuracy of the information and how it resonates personally with me. Frankly im not certain about any of it but it does seem to ring true in many respects.

I did not ask for telepathic communication. I also did not say don't contact me telepathically. I did ask for help understanding everything I don't currently understand about myself and others. I definitely asked for assistance but did not define any terms of communication.

I have thought about the possibility that it is my higher self communicating with me or even my subconcious/fragmented self. These are very real possibilities along with 4D STS, 4D STO, advanced 3D STS, 3D STO, and me losing my sanity as I know it.

I am trying to be cautious and this is the main reason for my post.

In most aspects the messages I have been receiving either from myself or elsewhere have been beneficial as they have freed me from many thought associations I used to make that no longer arise.

My aim currently is freedom from any programs I run therefore it is a good thing. I am able to focus on things when I need to and only receive anything when my mind is at rest aside from a word or thought here or there that I wouldn't normally use. It is annoying at times but also helps me to stay awake OSIT.

Are all these thoughts ours?

I don't know if they are or not. I do know that I used to be able to go to a place where I wasn't thinking about anything and now have random messages that pop up.

I will try your reccomended procedure of stepping back and letting the information sink in.

Anart,

Would it be a violation if I asked the universe for guidance? I did ask and that is one reason I am uncertain of the nature of communication.

No offense taken and yes I do have a history of hearing voices and mental health disorder. It started around the time when I originally joined the forum and was followed by many strange occurences. Most of them exposed me to myself in ways previously described and others that required me to deal with aspects of myself I was not fond of. I was never under the influence of anything that prevented me from making my own choices but did make some poor decisions based on assumptions.

I am definitely hearing voices. They sometimes even say things that happen in the future which I recognize as STS from the transcripts. By that I mean words, names, phrases, and songs that pop into my head usually associated with goose bumps to the extreme on one portion of my body when that thought appears in reality later on. If this is the case then they are not friendly how do I make them go away? Obviously based on the assumption that they are not coming from me.

Palinurus,

Thank you for your concern. I read through the post you included and it was helpful.