Remnants of the Past

[Turgon]

Okay, I'm gonna try and stick to the main points as this post may become long-winded.

The Dream
I had a very long, continuous dream last night, which I can barely remember except the last part. I was in the basement of a house with two friends watching television or a computer screen. I was observing from 3rd person perspective and would jump from in me to 3rd person depending on what was going on.

A woman who was my mom but wasn't at the same time comes downstairs uninvited and proceeds to sit down. She may have had wings. I am putting away and folding my clothes only to have her continuosly butt in and tell me how to do it (which gave me the impression she was my mom.) I keep on politely telling her that it's my clothes and my place so I'll decide where my clothes go. She keeps on insisting though, which is starting to really piss me off.

At some point I go back to 3rd person view and realize both my friends are gone and this woman is still here. I'm in this half-zombie like state sitting on the couch in front of the T.V/Computer screen. Only now I'm like spilled water on the floor coming up to my feet. As I'm back in my body, here is where things get really strange.

There is some type of Ghost in the basement with us, and it starts tugging on me, it wants to show me something. The woman tells me this as well. I am feeling torn, because one part of me wants to help the spirit move on but doesn't want to get involved, and another part just want's the spirit to F off, in no uncertain terms. But both parts don't want to get involved. I end up standing over another part of the room holding an axe and now the spirit has a full grip on me from behind and I'm having trouble moving. The woman says to me it wants to show me a part of history and tries to coax me into giving her the axe. I feel trapped down there in the basement, and realize this isn't my place and I just want to leave. But they won't let me. They've cut off access to use internet, and all I can think about in the end is that I need to get access to the forum so I can post a thread, someone will provide insight that'll help me in this situation.

Some Thoughts
I've noticed that a lot of strange events will happen to me on a Sunday night/Monday morning. Case in point.

While doing the meditation, I started to get a feeling that I used to get when I was a little kid. I don't know how to describe it other than a visualization of two fingers close together trying to hold a ball. What usually occurs during this is a sort of dissociative state, where everything seems far away, as if I'm slightly not connected with my body. Almost like I'm floating in my body. It rarely ever happens but as a kid I used to sit on my grandparents couch and breathe a certain way which would cause this state to occur. Same exact feelings associated. Every once in a while, this state will occur at night, sometimes when doing POTS as well. But it has only been occurring again in the last few months.

I've noticed that sometimes when it occurs, the next few days are usually filled with a lot of anger, frustration and stress.

While doing the POTS last night, the beginning was filled with a lot of clarity of thought in regards to some things I've been thinking about in regards to my past, only to have this state occur, and after it did, a lot of weird, negative images popping up. A strange old man, some odd looking creatures, etc. I wasn't scared, but took note of all of it. As I was falling asleep, I kind of asked DCM to help me to see what this is, because it's like a mystery that I can't solve but was trying to piece together.

Any comments/feedback/theories is appreciated.

 

[Buddy]

Hi Daniel. You may not have enough pieces yet to solve it the way you're talking about, or maybe you're just too involved in the visual imagery? From my perspective, it looks like you are processing emotions related to those things you've been thinking about related to your past. but I could be off.

BTW, do you remember much about your first 5 or 6 years of life, or are your memories of this time period getting better? Or have you always had good recall of this time period?

 

[Turgon]

Hi Daniel. You may not have enough pieces yet to solve it the way you're talking about, or maybe you're just too involved in the visual imagery? From my perspective, it looks like you are processing emotions related to those things you've been thinking about related to your past. but I could be off.

BTW, do you remember much about your first 5 or 6 years of life, or are your memories of this time period getting better? Or have you always had good recall of this time period?

Hi Bud, I don't remember much about this time period. the few memories I do have are of either being in daycare or some scary moments. I had almost drowned twice by the time I hit 7. And a few other events that happened were pretty traumatic for me.

I've tried to remember more from this time period but the rest is hazy. However from 8 onwards, there is much more clarity of memory.

 

[Buddy]

Hi Bud, I don't remember much about this time period. the few memories I do have are of either being in daycare or some scary moments. I had almost drowned twice by the time I hit 7. And a few other events that happened were pretty traumatic for me.

I've tried to remember more from this time period but the rest is hazy. However from 8 onwards, there is much more clarity of memory.

OK, because I was thinking that processing of some early time period stuff was going on.

In light of this:

I don't remember much about this time period. the few memories I do have are of either being in daycare or some scary moments. I had almost drowned twice by the time I hit 7. And a few other events that happened were pretty traumatic for me.

...the rest is hazy. However from 8 onwards, there is much more clarity of memory.

...and the powerful imagery of this:

...tugging on you, tugging on you from behind, half-zombie like state, going back into your body, changing from 1st to 3rd person perspective, part wanting to help a spirit move on and another part angry, an offer to show you some history, "a sort of dissociative state, where everything seems far away, as if I'm slightly not connected with my body. Almost like I'm floating in my body", feeling trapped, floating.


...I would say just keep on the way you're going, because it looks to me like this trauma stuff may be processing. My idea is that the fact the dream was so long may indicate that you're ability to confront past junk is improving (sustained attention), but not necessarily to the point of remembering clear detail of what actually happened, so the brain is creating an alternate story to go with the emotions and dissociative episodes.

But I could be wrong, so just fwiw. :)

 

[Turgon]

Hi Bud,

Been thinking about what you wrote above. Trying to make sense of it all, and this dissociative state in general.

...tugging on you, tugging on you from behind, half-zombie like state, going back into your body, changing from 1st to 3rd person perspective

This changing from 1st to 3rd person perspective didn't make much sense to me initially. But now that I think about it, the one thing that strikes me as odd is that I can remember events, things from my past with a lot of clarity. I can remember exact details, colours, objects that were around, but have a hard time recalling the emotions involved. Even though I know there were strong emotions occurring, I can't remember them that well at all. As if someone else was going through it.

maybe you're just too involved in the visual imagery?

"a sort of dissociative state, where everything seems far away, as if I'm slightly not connected with my body. Almost like I'm floating in my body", feeling trapped, floating.

Just the other day I went for massage therapy, and it was almost the same feeling. I felt like I was almost floating in my body as I was getting massaged. I think because I'm not used to it and it made me feel like I was in a vulnerable state. I had to focus really hard on my body in order to really feel what was occurring as I felt myself drifting off. The first time I had went, the therapist even commented on my lack of sensate, which concerned her. I couldn't feel much in certain areas, then in other areas I would feel a lot and my body would start tensing and I would panic almost like I couldn't breathe. Anxiety, stress... Same feelings I get when I have strong emotions come up, particularly anger. I don't like getting angry because my body tenses and I get anxiety that doesn't leave for days sometimes...

When I think back to the drownings, one in particular was pretty scary, but it feels as if it was no big deal. Because afterwards I was pulled out of the pool and woke up, and I was just glad to be out of the water. But didn't think much of it. I don't even think I told my mom or grandparents about it. It's almost as if those events didn't have much effect on me, but they should have, although what if they did and I just didn't realize. But then wouldn't the really traumatic stuff be the things that I can't remember?

One thing that happened not long after my 2nd post was the feeling of water coming up my throat. This is normal if you swallow and it goes down the wrong hole, but I hadn't drank any water beforehand.

 

[andi]

Hi DanielS,
This may not be of much help.

When I read this:

I don't know how to describe it other than a visualization of two fingers close together trying to hold a ball.

and

I've noticed that sometimes when it occurs, the next few days are usually filled with a lot of anger, frustration and stress.

I remembered a strange feeling that goes back to when I was 5 or 6y.o. and witch reoccurred lately and it is strangely familiar to what you have described.
I don't recall much form that age but strangely I recall some dreams very vividly.

I was seeing myself both form inside and outside(3d pers) and was holding in my hand either a really big ball (kind of like a glass semitransparent ball) that was very very light or a small ball that was really heavy. Before and after this dream, witch was happening every once in a while, I was stressed, anxious, something like a pressure on me.
This looks somewhat similar to that part in your dream, it might have a commune theme.

I don't have anything else to add -it seems you are doing fine in bringing up buried emotions.

 

[Buddy]

This changing from 1st to 3rd person perspective didn't make much sense to me initially. But now that I think about it, the one thing that strikes me as odd is that I can remember events, things from my past with a lot of clarity. I can remember exact details, colours, objects that were around, but have a hard time recalling the emotions involved. Even though I know there were strong emotions occurring, I can't remember them that well at all. As if someone else was going through it.

When I discovered memories like what you describe above in my own recapitulations, it seemed as if the reason my memories of some visual and auditory stuff was so strong was because I was very strongly focused 'away' from my body at the time - which tends to explain why I couldn't remember the feelings I must have had at the time - I was deliberately dissociating away from the painful emotion or feeling sensations.

maybe you're just too involved in the visual imagery?

"a sort of dissociative state, where everything seems far away, as if I'm slightly not connected with my body. Almost like I'm floating in my body", feeling trapped, floating.

Just the other day I went for massage therapy, and it was almost the same feeling. I felt like I was almost floating in my body as I was getting massaged. I think because I'm not used to it and it made me feel like I was in a vulnerable state. I had to focus really hard on my body in order to really feel what was occurring as I felt myself drifting off. The first time I had went, the therapist even commented on my lack of sensate, which concerned her. I couldn't feel much in certain areas, then in other areas I would feel a lot and my body would start tensing and I would panic almost like I couldn't breathe. Anxiety, stress... Same feelings I get when I have strong emotions come up, particularly anger. I don't like getting angry because my body tenses and I get anxiety that doesn't leave for days sometimes...

This sounds like a confirmation of what I was thinking. The uncontrolled, unwanted anxiety and the physical sensations being present in the unfortunate past events and being re-stimulated in the present, OSIT. The next time you get a massage try to "see through" the physical sensate, or lack of. You can do that by imagining you are looking through your body and seeing the person's hands, noticing what part of their hands, how many fingers, or whatever that they are using on you. This technique may help extend your attention past your actual body and help you to 'reconnect' to the environmental context around you to some degree.

When I think back to the drownings, one in particular was pretty scary, but it feels as if it was no big deal.

If it were me saying that, I would see it as a big clue to a dissociative part of an experience. If you read the above statement as if someone else wrote it, you might see that the two sections set apart with bolding don't naturally go together - at least not for me.

But then wouldn't the really traumatic stuff be the things that I can't remember?

Depends on who you ask, I suppose. There is Loyd DeMause's life-long research on these issues on a personal and societal level. There is the work I mentioned here, here, ...and this:

As novel stimuli are anxiety provoking, under stress, previously traumatized people tend return to familiar patterns, even if they cause pain.
_http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/vanderkolk/

So, it seems the answer is that the trauma stuff that gets dramatized is the stuff you can't remember. And a big part of what determines what you can remember is whether or not you felt responsible for the incident. The feeling of being to blame, or at least not realizing that you are not to blame, is a large part of the reason the mind cuts the memory out and walls it off.

As an example of that, I was reminded of a paper I read where a young girl was being psychologically investigated for acting out sexual abuse on her doll. It turned out that the little girl had been sexually abused by a male babysitter and she came to deeply feel that she deserved it because of what was said to her about being a 'bad girl', etc. The point is, she couldn't remember the incident, but for anyone who can read it, her own behavior was exactly mirroring what was done to her body, and the investigation confirmed the psychologist's fears.

With regard to personal responsibility, I'm not talking about an intellectual understanding of something being your fault, rather a deep down visceral acceptance of something you deserved (you mistakenly believe).

But there may also be other determining factors, as yet unknown or undiscovered.

That's why I said I thought it was good to just continue the way you're going because the important thing is clearing the emotional issues that drive mysterious behaviors and experiences and prevent access to the details of the events of earlier life.