Scary dream about the forum

[theos]

I had this dream today shortly before 3am. I usually only remember bits and pieces of my dreams but I found this one quite odd so I made myself get up and write it down. Here's what I wrote in my diary:

Did pipe breathing and POTS before falling asleep. Very conflicted about work options, asked for guidance before bed. So, anyway...the dream.
In the first part, I was a member of the forum but not in good standing. My ego had taken a battering in some post and I feared being banned. Just ego- not true. In this dream forum we all knew eachother personally. We still posted but we lived in a very lush, green forest setting. I got the feeling it was somewhat paridisical until some interlopers came in.
There was this posting wunderkind. He looked like a ripped Adonis and everyone was in love with his posts. It turns out he was a robot bent on detroying the forum and the paradise. I found out because during nap time I noticed my right arm and leg would shoot out and stick to him like a magnet. Out on a walk one day, I saw some other imposters plotting to destroy the forum. (I think I realized briefly that I was dreaming and tried to tell myself to get off of my back. I couldn't.) In the dream I was pretending to be asleep so I could eavesdrop, was thinking of PM'ing Laura with the plot details but doubted she would believe me due to my previous forum embarassment and I admonished myself for having a "hero program" and wanting to save the forum. I'd decided to go ahead and take a chance when some of the interlopers discovered me.
They were hiding a battery in a creek bed and they were using it to beam the invaders in and out. I somehow knew that they were intent on killing everyone in the forum in very nasty ways like slicing and dicing. They came after me. The only reason I got away is that I vomited wheatgrass into the face of one of the attackers and it came to me that they were probably allergic to chlorophyll. I imagined everyone on the forum going after the attackers with palm fronds and grasses and the invaders melted away. :)
The dream shifted and this time I'd decided not to post. I'd been going about my business in the forest and was captured. I was going down a long elevator shaft and there were murals painted on the walls with scenes of how humans are supposed to behave and relate to eachother. Scenes of sex in stress positions and scenes that depicted humans as devoid of feeling. I was feeling great fear, dread and despair as I went down. I was being taken to a place where humans were being reprogrammed as robots. All the lab workers were in white coats. They were caucasian with varying shades of brown hair. The prisoners were of all races. The lab tech pricked my finger for a DNA sample and asked how they got me. I burst into tears and told him that I'd thought I won the lottery. Then I woke up and immediately rolled onto my side.

There are other scary details that I've forgotten. But I had that usual (for me) feeling of dread and fear that I have in my dreams of being relentlessly pursued with no mercy and no hope of escape.

This dream showed me several things.
1. I'm still afraid of posting. I've been getting on myself lately for not making what I would feel to be any significant steps on the forum or in my own development. I've not been in the swamp and I've not been mirrored really. I feel a sense of stagnation. For example, I ridicule myself for not posting in the swamp and try to justify not posting by telling myself I'll just be posting noise or seeking attention and if something swamp-y comes up I will post it. I don't trust my own thoughts and playing around with them on my own without the benefit of a mirror gets me nowhere.
2. I do have a hero program. I have loads of programs and alternate between them or try to rationalize or justify my behavior when thinking of why I do or don't do certain things.
3. I'm feeling nervousness/anxiety about the new FOTCM. A sort of s@#t or get off the pot type of feeling. Something big is happening and I want to be a part of it but at the same time all my inadequecy programs are running and I'm sensing the desire to run away. This is a chance to "do" and I'm afraid to leave the comfort of my life and strike out in a new direction. In the dream I escaped when I decided to take a chance and was captured and fell into roboticism when I didn't.
4. Wheatgrass is good.

That's all. Any mirrors, thoughts, comments welcomed.

 

[Turgon]

Hi Odyssey,

From reading over the description of your dream, I can't help but wonder if the Forum in your dream was some type of metaphor for your Higher Self, so all the bad guys are really programs preventing you from fully integrating with the "Forum"/Higher Self.

I got the feeling it was somewhat paridisical until some interlopers came in.

So possibly the interlopers are still programs that are running in the background that your having a hard time noticing or counter-acting.

My ego had taken a battering in some post and I feared being banned. Just ego- not true.

I'm still afraid of posting. I've been getting on myself lately for not making what I would feel to be any significant steps on the forum or in my own development.

Could the whole aspect in your dream about fearing being banned in the dream also attribute to your fear of posting. In either case your ego/self-importance/program is running and preventing you from DOing.

He looked like a ripped Adonis and everyone was in love with his posts. It turns out he was a robot bent on detroying the forum and the paradise.

I do have a hero program

Could this 'Adonis' also be a metaphor for another program. Maybe a love for wanting to be the 'hero' in regards to posting, to be that centre of attention. Which may be narcissistic in nature, and so this can negatively affect you getting in touch with your Higher Self. Hence, Adonis was a robot bent on destroying the forum (Maybe closer to preventing you from reaching the forum/Higher Self instead)

The dream shifted and this time I'd decided not to post. I'd been going about my business in the forest and was captured. I was going down a long elevator shaft and there were murals painted on the walls with scenes of how humans are supposed to behave and relate to eachother. Scenes of sex in stress positions and scenes that depicted humans as devoid of feeling. I was feeling great fear, dread and despair as I went down

The C's mentioned in the September 13, 2009 transcripts about the neccessity for dark dreams

A: Memories of lives of pain and suffering that remained unresolved at the end of those lives. We are sorry that some of this is painful, but this method is actually the least traumatic method of any for this purpose. Once the dark dreams are processed out of the system, all will be better. Then there are no more hooks for illusion to attach to.

So, maybe this dream was more of a glimpse into the number of programs that are still attached to you, so that you now have a better understanding of what you need to work on within yourself?

Edit:

I hope this helps fwiw. And I just wanted to say that I can relate to the types of feelings of stagnation and mistrust of yourself and the intent of your actions. So your most definitely not alone in this. :)

 

[samii]

Hi Odyssey,

Interesting dream. My dreams are mostly about work; being late to work, failing at work assignments, tension with work colleagues, and so on. It's consuming my dream world, just once I want to dream about this forum or something related even if it's a scary dream like yours :D

 

[Buddy]

Hi Odyssey. I can't comment on your dream except maybe to say that the emotions you experienced are probably the significant thing and it looks like they are being processed normally (I'm not really a judge of these matters).

I can relate to your feelings as well, and I don't know what you've experienced lately (I haven't read your posts yet). What I've learned so far is that unless you are some kind of seer who can see into all the levels, or have observed something or someone over a period of time in order to understand the relationships that apply to THEM and then compare what you see to objective knowledge, the only other option open (at least from what I see) is to project 'bad self' traits or 'good self' traits into someone and then respond to that. It's a consequence of the negative introject and not all of it's tricks are easy to spot.

That's usually where I get into trouble - forgetting to remember that.

Have you studied the Big 5 psychology books, and do you practice self-observation to the best of your ability anytime you can remember to do so?

 

[theos]

Hi guys. Thanks for responding.

From reading over the description of your dream, I can't help but wonder if the Forum in your dream was some type of metaphor for your Higher Self, so all the bad guys are really programs preventing you from fully integrating with the "Forum"/Higher Self.

I got the feeling it was somewhat paridisical until some interlopers came in.

So possibly the interlopers are still programs that are running in the background that your having a hard time noticing or counter-acting.

This is a possibility. I feel that I'm getting pretty good at identifying my programs but the harder work comes in not letting them run me.

Could the whole aspect in your dream about fearing being banned in the dream also attribute to your fear of posting. In either case your ego/self-importance/program is running and preventing you from DOing.

Although the fear of being banned was in my dream I don't really have a fear of this in real life -- at least not consciously. My greatest fear, or I should say, my ego's greatest fear is to be challenged or mirrored or be "found out" so to speak. Perhaps my higher self is crying out for this because it knows that it is necessary.

Could this 'Adonis' also be a metaphor for another program. Maybe a love for wanting to be the 'hero' in regards to posting, to be that centre of attention. Which may be narcissistic in nature, and so this can negatively affect you getting in touch with your Higher Self. Hence, Adonis was a robot bent on destroying the forum (Maybe closer to preventing you from reaching the forum/Higher Self instead)

Yes, I do feel this narcissistic desire to be at the center of things from time to time. I know this program exists and I try to watch for it always. Sometimes though I think I go too far in the other direction or use it as an excuse to keep hidden when I should take a chance. I would have described myself as an introvert in the past but I now know that this is just a form of internal considering.

I think this dream was telling me that I need to come out and DO or find myself in the emotional hinterlands. I have noticed though, with the exception of this dream, since doing EE the dark man dreams have diminished greatly. I used to have dreams where I was in a house going from room to room searching for that "one" room. I remember finding a hatch and having to climb a tall ladder to reach the hidden room. Me exploring my subconscious mind, I guess. But I haven't had one of those is a long time either.

What's up, Buddy. You've read some of my posts and responded. (I used to be chachachick.) At any rate, I definitely "know" you. :) Yeah, I've read the big 5. I'm gonna re-read Trapped in the Mirror. Self observation has been incorporated to the best of my ability.

 

[Buddy]

What's up, Buddy. You've read some of my posts and responded. (I used to be chachachick.) At any rate, I definitely "know" you. :) Yeah, I've read the big 5. I'm gonna re-read Trapped in the Mirror. Self observation has been incorporated to the best of my ability.

OK, my bad. :D I could've checked the name change thread.

Although the fear of being banned was in my dream I don't really have a fear of this in real life -- at least not consciously. My greatest fear, or I should say, my ego's greatest fear is to be challenged or mirrored or be "found out" so to speak. Perhaps my higher self is crying out for this because it knows that it is necessary.

This is understandable so far as it applies to me as well. I think it's probably because we occasionally shift into other self-concepts unknowingly sometimes and those I's think that THEY are 'all that' and don't want to know they're false and need to be unified into a greater whole or real self.

Just my thoughts, fwiw.

 

[Turgon]

I would just like to post some thoughts I've had in hindsight, and I think that I may have suppressed while writing my original post to your thread Odyssey.

What I've learned so far is that unless you are some kind of seer who can see into all the levels, or have observed something or someone over a period of time in order to understand the relationships that apply to THEM and then compare what you see to objective knowledge, the only other option open (at least from what I see) is to project 'bad self' traits or 'good self' traits into someone and then respond to that. It's a consequence of the negative introject and not all of it's tricks are easy to spot.

I think I was projecting some of my own beliefs and ideas in regards to your dream. Meaning I was looking at it from my perspective, as if I would have had that dream and did not take into consideration the symbolisms and how they might apply to you, and that they might mean something completely different based upon your life experiences. In fact after reading Buddy's post I felt guilty for writing what I did, because it seems kind of presumptuous on my part. I do believe I have really good observational skills and can analyze really well, but felt shaky after what you wrote Buddy. I think it's because I was projecting, but I really don't know for sure. Because literally every conclusion I came up with for you, Odyssey, is something I am dealing with myself. So I'm really not sure whether I picked up on the pattern of it, or was projecting what is going on internally into the situation. It's so hard to tell sometimes...

 

[Buddy]

In fact after reading Buddy's post I felt guilty for writing what I did, because it seems kind of presumptuous on my part.

Hi DanielS. If you'll excuse MY presumptuousness for a moment, please don't feel guilty for anything by comparing to me. I don't know if there are any shared, common dream symbolisms or not. You might have been correct with the bulk of your interpretations. At least you offered some feedback.

I've done the same thing that you're talking about and with similar bad feelings, but really, it's all just a learning experience. There's no need for guilt. It'll just talk you out of your network. I know, because it almost did me.

I've thought about this issue before, so I can ask... How would you feel if someone came round and mirrored me as a result of my post? Would you then feel bad because you felt bad about comparing yourself to an idiot (me :))?

Just be sincere and externally considerate. Everything else is gravy to the Seeker (well, a lot of the time, anyway...ok, sometimes).

 

[theos]

I've done the same thing that you're talking about and with similar bad feelings, but really, it's all just a learning experience. There's no need for guilt. It'll just talk you out of your network.

I'll second that. I didn't find your post presumptuous at all, DanielS. I appreciated the feedback.

 

[Ollie]

Hi Odyssey

1. I'm still afraid of posting. I've been getting on myself lately for not making what I would feel to be any significant steps on the forum or in my own development. I've not been in the swamp and I've not been mirrored really. I feel a sense of stagnation. For example, I ridicule myself for not posting in the swamp and try to justify not posting by telling myself I'll just be posting noise or seeking attention and if something swamp-y comes up I will post it. I don't trust my own thoughts and playing around with them on my own without the benefit of a mirror gets me nowhere.
2. I do have a hero program. I have loads of programs and alternate between them or try to rationalize or justify my behavior when thinking of why I do or don't do certain things.
3. I'm feeling nervousness/anxiety about the new FOTCM. A sort of s@#t or get off the pot type of feeling. Something big is happening and I want to be a part of it but at the same time all my inadequecy programs are running and I'm sensing the desire to run away. This is a chance to "do" and I'm afraid to leave the comfort of my life and strike out in a new direction. In the dream I escaped when I decided to take a chance and was captured and fell into roboticism when I didn't.

For an entry into the Swamp, posting the above quote may, or may not, be a good starter topic for you – after all, you have asked for ‘any mirrors, thoughts, comments … ‘ This is ‘something swamp-y’

Now for a reply that you may consider, as you concurred with mada85 on a post of mine in the swamp, is ‘intellectual’ – by the way, is this one of your programmes? But before that,

… I'm afraid to leave the comfort of my life and strike out in a new direction. In the dream I escaped when I decided to take a chance

From previous posts of yours, I notice that you have quit your job, and started on a diet/losing weight programme. So, in the context of these two programmes of Work, you already know what to do, you have strategies for ‘leave the comfort of my life and strike out in a new direction’. All you need to do now is to use the strategies you developed there in the differing context of ‘posting’.

Interestingly, to me anyway, and relevant to this post, is that this morning I came across this quote on the back of a book that I bought yesterday.

The best mysteries are the ones whose answers lie in front of us, in plain sight; the best solutions are those moments when we all of a sudden realize what we’ve known all along.

I know, because I have been there, the first turning points were from: reading the ‘lurker’s thread’; the C’s constantly stressing the importance of ‘networking’; and a quote from Azur.

To learn and see you have to interact.

Posting has many effects, and helps in many different ways, not only in the personal, subjective (STS) sense, but also, unintentionally, for others (STO). As an example of the second, when you posted about changing your job because you could not stand it any longer, this triggered in me a desire to do something similar, leading me to do some Work (posted elsewhere), resulting in exploring early retirement – something I didn’t think was possible materially – it turns out it is. Secondly, the above-mentioned reply post to me in the Swamp, triggered another programme (realized through a ‘cold sore’) that I was unaware of. So thank you for both of those.

There is also this relevant quote from anart,

Act as if everything you do affects the future.

because everything you do does affect the future; whether you like the outcome or not, your predominant thoughts influence what happens to you now and in the future. And,

… happiness is what happens (as it happens).

Moving on,

I do have a hero program. …

You may like to read, or re-read, or not, The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell, where the hero is you. Also, you may recall, or not, Mouravieff, writing in Gnosis, about the film of life – mentioned by Laura in the online Wave series (there may even be a complete chapter on this) – who suggests going back to the original film, and your part in it, in the original myth. Remember Laura and Perseus in the Wave series? Your avatar, Odyssey, is possibly, the original myth for you, or not? Who, or what role do you have in that myth? What acts do you play out? How may you apply this to your current situation, in overcoming your fear of posting, of partaking in the new FotCM, or not now?

Moving on again,

… try to justify not posting by telling myself I'll just be posting noise or seeking attention …

The following may help, or not.

The difficulty to accept and use power appropriately can run deep in these individuals. Since they have been well trained in their narcissistic families of origin to be reflective and reactive,[/b] they tend to be people pleasers. This need for acceptance frequently makes itself as a sort of hyperdemocracy: I cannot make a decision (or issue a judgement, or cut off a discussion) because I must be fair to everyone.

Translation: I am afraid someone will not approve of me. This indecisiveness masquerading as “fairness’ is abuse of power, and it is sensed and resented by those whom it affects. Power carries on its back responsibility; the willingness to use the power appropriately and the integrity to stand behind the ultimate decisions that power implies are what this responsibility is all about. Failure to follow through in either area is abusive to those dependent on the one with the power.

… difficult time dealing with any form of criticism, overt or applied. They take a rejection of anything they do, think, or say, or feel as a rejection of themselves. … deal with validating and respecting the child’s survival mechanisms, as well as the adults need to change some of them. … Many of these people became “people pleasers” in an attempt to head off negative feedback before it can happen. … They believe they are as others react to them.

… Our access to the true self is possible only when we no longer have to be afraid of the intense emotional world of early childhood. Once we have experienced and become familiar with this world, it is no longer strange and threatening. We no longer need to keep it hidden behind the prison walls of illusion. We know who and what caused the pain, and it is exactly this knowledge that gives us freedom at last from old pain.

In the majority of cases it is a great relief to a [person] to see that she can now recognize and take seriously the things she used to choke off, even if the old patterns come back, again and again, over a long period. But now she begins to understand that this strategy was her only chance to survive. Now she can realize how she still sometimes tries to persuade herself when she is scared, that she is not; how she belittles her feelings to protect herself, and either does not become aware of them at all, or does so only several days after they have already passed. Gradually, she realizes how she is forced to look for distractions when she is moved, upset or sad. …
[…]
The child must adjust to ensure the illusion of love, care, and kindness, but the adult does not need this illusion to survive. He can give up his amnesia and then be in a position to determine his actions with open eyes. Only this path will free him …
[…]
… We cannot, simply by an act of will, free ourselves from repeating the patterns of our parents’ behaviour - which we had to learn very early in life. We become free of them only when we can fully feel and acknowledge the suffering they inflicted upon us. We can then become fully aware of these patterns and condemn them unequivocally.
[…]
Consciously experiencing our legitimate emotions is liberating, not just because of the discharge of long-held tensions in the body but above all because it opens our eyes to reality (both past and present) and frees us of lies and illusions. It gives us back repressed memories and helps dispel attendant symptoms. It is therefore empowering without being destructive. Repressed emotion can be resolved as soon as it is felt, understood, and recognized as legitimate. Being detached from it becomes possible and this is totally different from repression.

… we have found to be most helpful to [people] in dealing with the reality of now, acceptance of power and responsibility, and the fear of rejection that drives “people pleasing” is … recognition that what she has (in terms of character, talents and traits) – what she is – is a treasure. It is unique to her alone, and it has value.

… a framework within which to process rejection. The concept of seeing oneself as a treasure is a powerful one … When one has – when one [i[is[/i] – is a treasure, one feels and acts differently. One does not have to do anything to be valuable; the worldview of “I do, therefore I am” becomes irrelevant. The new motto might be “I am, therefore I have value.”

[…]
so vulnerable are we to the opinions of others, and pockets of this kind, “ideas of reference.” Remain in all of us. As adults, one of our tasks is to realize that … such states occur outside our will or causation, that they are transitory, unavoidable, and above all that it is possible to absorb them and get on with our life. When I suffer anxiety, so I suffer anxiety. I still have my life, my task. …

The sooner I adopt such an attitude, the less damage to my sense of self. … We learn knowledge; we cannot learn wisdom. Wisdom arises through the assimilation of suffering. Suffering assimilated enlarges the personality, brings amplitude to the soul.

… our characteristic response patterns to swampland stress is reflexive in character, tied to past experience, we are obliged to re-imagine ourselves in order to live in the present.

The adult is capable of bearing the unbearable. To wit: “I am alone, really alone. No one is really there for me. … I am afraid of … being afraid. …

There, it is said. … the task remains to face them, the unbearable thoughts, so they finally lose their tyrannous power. Jung noted, “Most of my patients knew the deeper truth, but did not live it” (The Aims of Psychology, The Practice of Psychotherapy, CW16, par.108

Which is to say, unless we live our deeper truths, we will spend many more seasons in Hell.
[…]
Only through a surrender of the fantasy of control, suffering thereby not only the loss of ego dominance but the pain of the pain, may one experience a release. … This is not unlike the experience of surrendering one’s will to divine powers – “not my will but Thine.”
[…]
]… So are we anxious? … so we are still obliged to live as fully as possible. One thinks of epitaph Nikos Kazantzakis wrote for himself, “I want nothing. I fear nothing. I am free.” (The Saviour of God, p134) A difficult but worthwhile goal.

Anxiety is the price of a ticket on the journey of life; no ticket – no journey; no journey – no life. We may run from anxiety as much as possible but we thereby run from our only life. … so we are impelled to face what we cannot face, bear what we cannot bear, name the unnamable that haunts us.

… the path of anxiety is necessary because therein lies the hope of the person to more nearly become an individual. … “You must make your fears your agenda.” When we take on that agenda, for all the anxiety engendered, we feel better because we know we are living in bonne foi with ourselves.

And picking up on one more point,

… My greatest fear, or I should say, my ego's greatest fear is to be challenged or mirrored or be "found out" so to speak. Perhaps my higher self is crying out for this because it knows that it is necessary.

and

Yes, I do feel this narcissistic desire to be at the center of things from time to time. I know this program exists and I try to watch for it always. Sometimes though I think I go too far in the other direction or use it as an excuse to keep hidden when I should take a chance. I would have described myself as an introvert in the past but I now know that this is just a form of internal considering.

Introversion is more than just a form of inner consideration; it derives from a narcissistic upbringing as well. I’ll repeat part of my post in the swamp that may relate to moving away from this, and you may find it helpful, or not.

And then there is the matter of dealing with the highly introverted nature of the ‘hermit’. This is the second major challenge; ‘breaking out’ of the ‘hermit’s (the loner’s) cave’ (inner world) of high introversion that I’ve lived all my life in; i.e., getting outside of myself!

Jung and von Franz (in the grail Legend) talk of the hermit having a tendency towards introversion in order to achieve a renunciation of the world as a first exercise in preparation to solving the Grail problem; of a counsellor, withdrawn from the world and only sympathetic to spirit. Well, I know that I need to be ‘in the world’ looking for objective reality, as well as seeing what has not been seen before, looking for manifestations of the Law of Three in the World and in Man. Possibly, ‘breaking out’ would mean the release of the trapped, hidden, wisdom within, what Jung and von Franz refer to as ‘inner resolution of a collective tendency and aloneness with one’s inner life and the experiences resulting therefrom’. That sounds like a pretty tall order to achieve! Is it relevant to me? Or is, ‘breaking out’ just the breaking down of the old crystallisation? Is all of this - the introverted hermit, the dreams, and the thoughts, all of them taken in the form of violation, or a lack of love - a conscious life vehicle and context for the play out of the karma of earlier lives for consciousness to develop? I’ll leave that there. I think I’ve got as far as I can go now.

And, finally, to re-quote, as this quote has made a lasting impression on me,

… happiness is what happens (as it happens).

These quotes certainly helped me ‘jump the fence, as it were, to upping the posting frequency of my experiences, and asking for help - just doing it. So, you may like to face the fear now, or not, and you may well do away with the fear.

 

[theos]

Thanks for your thougtful reply, Trevrizent. I've read it over a few times and it gives me much food for thought. I'm going to add Drama of the Gifted Child and ...well, I suppose I'll go back re-read all of the big 5 psych books. I Hero with a Thousand Faces but stopped midway. Probably, when I started on the big 5.

You asked:

Now for a reply that you may consider, as you concurred with mada85 on a post of mine in the swamp, is ‘intellectual’ – by the way, is this one of your programmes?

I believe so. I tend to minimize the effect of negative events and the emotions attached, shunt it up into the intellectual center and analyze it to death instead of allowing myself to feel or express for more than a short period of time. This excerpt you quoted resonated with me.
I remember as a child holding and holding in my sadness until one day I would just explode.

Quote from: Alice Miler in The Drama of the Gifted Child
… Our access to the true self is possible only when we no longer have to be afraid of the intense emotional world of early childhood. Once we have experienced and become familiar with this world, it is no longer strange and threatening. We no longer need to keep it hidden behind the prison walls of illusion. We know who and what caused the pain, and it is exactly this knowledge that gives us freedom at last from old pain.

In the majority of cases it is a great relief to a [person] to see that she can now recognize and take seriously the things she used to choke off, even if the old patterns come back, again and again, over a long period. But now she begins to understand that this strategy was her only chance to survive. Now she can realize how she still sometimes tries to persuade herself when she is scared, that she is not; how she belittles her feelings to protect herself, and either does not become aware of them at all, or does so only several days after they have already passed. Gradually, she realizes how she is forced to look for distractions when she is moved, upset or sad. …
[…]
The child must adjust to ensure the illusion of love, care, and kindness, but the adult does not need this illusion to survive. He can give up his amnesia and then be in a position to determine his actions with open eyes. Only this path will free him …
[…]
… We cannot, simply by an act of will, free ourselves from repeating the patterns of our parents’ behaviour - which we had to learn very early in life. We become free of them only when we can fully feel and acknowledge the suffering they inflicted upon us. We can then become fully aware of these patterns and condemn them unequivocally.
[…]
Consciously experiencing our legitimate emotions is liberating, not just because of the discharge of long-held tensions in the body but above all because it opens our eyes to reality (both past and present) and frees us of lies and illusions. It gives us back repressed memories and helps dispel attendant symptoms. It is therefore empowering without being destructive. Repressed emotion can be resolved as soon as it is felt, understood, and recognized as legitimate. Being detached from it becomes possible and this is totally different from repression.

Quote Trevrizent:

Posting has many effects, and helps in many different ways, not only in the personal, subjective (STS) sense, but also, unintentionally, for others (STO).

I must keep this in mind. I know that I have benefited greatly from others' posts.

Thanks again. :)

 

[Buddy]

Speaking of Alice Miller, for anyone who enjoys Ms. Miller's works, you can read this one online at the URL indicated:

_http://www.nospank.net/fyog.htm

ALICE MILLER

For Your Own Good
(Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence)

TRANSLATED BY Hildegard and Hunter Hannum

Farrar - Straus - Giroux
NEW YORK


[quote author=ALICE MILLER]

The conviction that parents are always right and that every act of cruelty, whether conscious or unconscious, is an expression of their love is so deeply rooted in human beings because it is based on the process of internalization that takes place during the first months of life -- in other words, during the period preceding separation from the primary care giver. Two passages from Dr. Schreber's advice to parents, written in 1858, will illustrate the method of raising children prevalent at the time:


The little ones' displays of temper as indicated by screaming or crying without cause should be regarded as the first test of your spiritual and pedagogical principles. ...Once you have established that nothing is really wrong, that the child is not ill, distressed, or in pain, then you can rest assured that the screaming is nothing more than an outburst of temper, a whim, the first appearance of willfulness. Now you should no longer simply wait for it to pass as you did in the beginning but should proceed in a somewhat more positive way: by quickly diverting its attention, by stern words, threatening gestures, rapping on the bed ...or if none of this helps, by appropriately mild corporal admonitions repeated persistently at brief intervals until the child quiets down or falls asleep....
This procedure will be necessary only once or at most twice, and then you will be master of the child forever. From now on, a glance, a word, a single threatening gesture will be sufficient to control the child. Remember that this will be of the greatest benefit to your child since it will spare him many hours of agitation inimicable to his successful growth, freeing him from all those inner torments that can, moreover, very easily lead to a proliferation of pernicious character traits that will become increasingly difficult to conquer. [Quoted in Morton Schatzman, Soul Murder]


Dr. Schreber doesn't realize that what he is in fact attempting to curb in children are his own impulses, and there is no doubt in his mind that he is recommending the exercise of power purely for the child's own good:
If parents are consistent in this, they will soon be rewarded by the emergence of that desirable situation in which the child will be controlled almost entirely by a parental glance alone.
Source:_http://www.nospank.net/fyog4.htm
[/quote]

 

[Turgon]

I've thought about this issue before, so I can ask... How would you feel if someone came round and mirrored me as a result of my post? Would you then feel bad because you felt bad about comparing yourself to an idiot (me )?

I've thought this same thing myself at times, does that make me an idiot too? ;D

But in all honesty, I don't know how I would react. I think, at least for me, it depends on who is doing the mirroring and their depth of knowledge. What you intially wrote made sense to me, so I couldn't help but apply it to my post and what I was thinking about when writing it. I started to question my intentions and sincerity involved, which is a good thing, that's what the forum is here for, to offer that feedback (intentional or not) it's just that damn 'guilt-trip' program that really seems to bake my noodle, so-to-speak...

Posting has many effects, and helps in many different ways, not only in the personal, subjective (STS) sense, but also, unintentionally, for others (STO).

I must keep this in mind. I know that I have benefited greatly from others' posts.

Me too!

 

[realitybugll]

I clicked this thread immediately just now because it just so happens I had a scary dream involving the cass forum, also lizzies.

The beginning was really nice before it got scary. Basically I was walking in a park with my brother, and I had a feeling that many members from Cassiopaea were going to be congregating in this grassy field ahead of us. I felt a really nice happy, "loved", feeling, that was more emotionally charged then I ever feel in real life. sure enough all of a sudden their were people walking with me and all around me that I assumed were all from the cassiopaea forums and we sat on a circle in the grass. The weird part was that my brother and me sat next to this guy that was being very friendly with us, yet I got a horrible vibe from him. I had a sort of de-ja-vu experience (that I can't remember now) and seemed to remember him as a really evil lizard person.

I got up and moved somewhere else to sit with some other people where I felt more comfortable. now I can't fully remember what happened next but I got some interesting images of these might warriors slaying lizzies with swords and other medieval weapons. They were pretty gruesome fear evoking images like a mighty (scary) warrior plunging his sword through a lizzy, but I can't recall the exact images. Also they seemed to be emanating from the middle of the circle of all of us. The dream was fading away at this point and I awoke soon afterward.

This dream comes at a particularly hard and confusing time for me and to be honest I'm not sure what to make of it. I dismissed it earlier as just one of my crazy dreams that drew inspiration from real life. FOr example, my fear of the lizzies or the evil that is out there, my "obsession" with the truth and cassiopaea, and my desire to be more apart of the community here.

Also to note this dream came after or was part of a dream where supposedly the government was being run by penguins and I was a penguin translator for the government :)

I'm thankful Odyssey that your post allowed me to share this

Interestingly enough I can relate to a lot of what you described below.

1. I'm still afraid of posting. I've been getting on myself lately for not making what I would feel to be any significant steps on the forum or in my own development. I've not been in the swamp and I've not been mirrored really. I feel a sense of stagnation. For example, I ridicule myself for not posting in the swamp and try to justify not posting by telling myself I'll just be posting noise or seeking attention and if something swamp-y comes up I will post it. I don't trust my own thoughts and playing around with them on my own without the benefit of a mirror gets me nowhere.
2. I do have a hero program. I have loads of programs and alternate between them or try to rationalize or justify my behavior when thinking of why I do or don't do certain things.
3. I'm feeling nervousness/anxiety about the new FOTCM. A sort of s@#t or get off the pot type of feeling. Something big is happening and I want to be a part of it but at the same time all my inadequecy programs are running and I'm sensing the desire to run away. This is a chance to "do" and I'm afraid to leave the comfort of my life and strike out in a new direction. In the dream I escaped when I decided to take a chance and was captured and fell into roboticism when I didn't.

I'll heed other peoples advice :)

 

[mandell]

Re: Scary dream about the forum- Odyssey

As Laura and the C's have said, which I quite look forward to without fear, this will all go down in 4D- (not that work isn't to be done now!)

This is something I have related to well before hearing about Laura and Arks' work and reading anything about the Lizzies.

I believed with all my being that a time will come when people will one day wear their thoughts visually outside their body so there will be no hiding for anyone and their hidden agendas.. like everyone wearing their auras like clothes are worn now and that would be the clearest sign of those times for those who are yet to know themselves. In relation to fearing posting on this forum, if you are being honest, completely in the 'now', a discernment of the replies you get can help dramatically and this subconcious fear can be overcome- isn't this the point- to develop and grow, and to help others in this process?

If true nature is immutable and we are all on a search firstly to discover this in ourselves, then does that not in itself allow us to free ourselves from fear of the future, of pain and suffering, especially if we all have a specific role to play when this time comes and the work is to prepare us for these times of transition?

Why fear the Lizzies when they're more afraid of us?