Self-importance and doubts, creating problems in relationships/career

[Resistense]

I've been struggling lately with changes in my personal relations and career choice. I suppose what I'm having the most trouble with is sticking by my decisions and moving forward with my education/career while trying to get through emotional upset.

I made the decision to distance myself from my fiancee, in essence telling her that my priorities had changed and that I wasn't interested in getting married or having children (which was an understanding we had about our future). I know this caused her a great deal of grief and emotional upset, and I have done this to her before earlier in our relationship where I'd separated from her for various reasons, not making a "clean break", only to return later and then repeat the process (although we were together solidly for about 3-4 years).

It's been about 7 weeks now, and for the first month after I moved away I had terrible emotional upset, during which I was only occasionally able to distance myself from these negative emotions, "remember myself", and maybe even try to transmute the emotion. Mostly I felt lousy for breaking my commitment, and felt very unsure about my motivations for making this change.

So I moved back home and, having no resources, some pressure was brought to bear by my family to quickly get into an online program to become a medical lab scientist. This is a good thing in some respects, as it builds on previous education, and the field appears promising for job opportunities and compensation, but I also feel great doubts as well. The schooling takes 9 mos. (currently in my 2nd week), after which you do 40hrs/week unpaid training for a year, and with 20K in debt to boot.

I think both of these situations have their roots in my feelings of self-importance. I struggled with the decision about my relationship for many months, and I think I eventually came to think there was no collinearity, but may have misappropriated this idea to mean common beliefs and/or understanding about the nature of "reality". I took the somewhat selfish stance (indeed I am STS) that I was acting in favor of my own soul, not against her, and also had the thought someone else like a sorceress would "serve me" better (and that's an awful motivation to think back over). Thinking over it all again I believe we have aspects of opposite polarities, and in many ways balance each other out and provide each other mutual support and learning opportunity (but perhaps this is just revisionist history..).

With this school/work situation I struggle with the idea that I have some grand purpose or vague calling to do something more important. I do find the material interesting, and I can see how it provides an avenue to gain knowledge, serve others in a sense, and learn more about the laws of world creation and world maintenance. That being said, the training is quite specific, and puts me firmly in place as a cog in the wheel of the ugly behemoth of the American medical machine. So I'm conflicted here as well.

So with my lady friend I feel uncertain, and the bridge has certainly not been burned. As I said, I pushed her away with the understanding that it was me, my own motivations and desires, and nothing wrong with her or really even with our relationship (we were very much stable and got along well, and I could then and can now feel intimacy between us when we interact). There were times during our relationship where I'd want her to change, namely with her diet and Rx use, and times when I tried to sell or force my way of thinking on her. I realize now how foolish this approach was, and how I need to be accepting of her as she is. One thing that just broke my heart to read was "... tell your friend to quit torturing you with trying to force it down your throat! There are people whose job it is to just be sweet, loving and caring and it is the job of warriors to look after them."

I think she is so very intelligent and hard-working, her default mode is to be kind and gentle with people, and for the most part she is accepting of my eccentricities (although she does call me crazy and makes bones about my strange and restrictive diet). She is a medical student now starting her rotations (start of 3rd year) and I have the desire to be there with her to help support her.

I suppose this all helps me to see myself, see my weaknesses. It's said that one who is weak in life is weak in the work, and to be honest up to this point in my life (26yrs) I've never really supported myself. This gives me more motivation for school/career as it provides a good avenue to earn a living and be independent. And I feel like I abuse my lady friend with my inconsistency and lack of commitment, and so I need to work on myself in various aspects before we could really renew our relationship and make it mutually beneficial.

So writing all this helps me to hash out what's going through my mind. Anyone kind enough to read it and give their thoughts/opinions/advice would be appreciated. I think reading the recommended books on psychology/narcissism is a necessary step which I plan to take, but I find myself somewhat pressed for time so any armchair psychology incorporating those ideas would be considered.

Thank you for time and consideration,
Doug

 

[anart]

So with my lady friend I feel uncertain, and the bridge has certainly not been burned. As I said, I pushed her away with the understanding that it was me, my own motivations and desires, and nothing wrong with her or really even with our relationship (we were very much stable and got along well, and I could then and can now feel intimacy between us when we interact). There were times during our relationship where I'd want her to change, namely with her diet and Rx use, and times when I tried to sell or force my way of thinking on her. I realize now how foolish this approach was, and how I need to be accepting of her as she is. One thing that just broke my heart to read was "... tell your friend to quit torturing you with trying to force it down your throat! There are people whose job it is to just be sweet, loving and caring and it is the job of warriors to look after them."

Sounds like the best thing that can happen to your 'lady friend' is for you to never speak to her again.

If you actually loved her - really loved her - none of what has happened between you would have happened, so at least care enough about her to allow her to find someone who can love her and who she can love.

Regarding your possible job and job training, at 26 you should have already been supporting yourself, so this opportunity should serve you well. fwiw.

 

[Palinurus]

Hi Resistense,

Interesting story which I can relate to. Thank you for sharing. Looking back at the time I was your age I have to say you got yourself pretty well figured out from the looks of it. I don't find myself qualified to go into details too much or give much advice but I want to make two observations of a more general nature.

With this school/work situation I struggle with the idea that I have some grand purpose or vague calling to do something more important. I do find the material interesting, and I can see how it provides an avenue to gain knowledge, serve others in a sense, and learn more about the laws of world creation and world maintenance. That being said, the training is quite specific, and puts me firmly in place as a cog in the wheel of the ugly behemoth of the American medical machine.

As a rule of thumb I would say: It's not so much what you do in life as it is the way you go about it that makes all the difference. You find yourself in this situation now and have to make the most of it in all possible respects. What that might mean in concrete terms is up to you to find out and to put into practice.

So with my lady friend I feel uncertain, and the bridge has certainly not been burned. As I said, I pushed her away with the understanding that it was me, my own motivations and desires, and nothing wrong with her or really even with our relationship (we were very much stable and got along well, and I could then and can now feel intimacy between us when we interact). There were times during our relationship where I'd want her to change, namely with her diet and Rx use, and times when I tried to sell or force my way of thinking on her. I realize now how foolish this approach was, and how I need to be accepting of her as she is. One thing that just broke my heart to read was "... tell your friend to quit torturing you with trying to force it down your throat! There are people whose job it is to just be sweet, loving and caring and it is the job of warriors to look after them."

I think she is so very intelligent and hard-working, her default mode is to be kind and gentle with people, and for the most part she is accepting of my eccentricities (although she does call me crazy and makes bones about my strange and restrictive diet). She is a medical student now starting her rotations (start of 3rd year) and I have the desire to be there with her to help support her.

I have to say I find it more than a little odd that you can make these statements here to us but seem unable to do the same unto the one person to whom it will really matter, your (former) fiancee. Why not copy this or print it, give or send it to her and ask for a personal exchange of views on these matters IF you are really serious about it. Doing so would put both of you on a more equal footing and could forge better understanding, establish greater honesty and enable more solid decision making about a possible common future, wouldn't you think?

 

[paralleloscope]

With this school/work situation I struggle with the idea that I have some grand purpose or vague calling to do something more important.

Forget about the glory of grand purpose before learning how to walk. The job avenue sounds good, go for it.

Regarding the girl I agree with Anart. Step back and see your relationship and life for what it is; a feeding ground beyond your control. You may feel like getting a sense of your selfishness , throw in some meditation and then return as a reformed man, but that would be wishful thinking. You describe a very normal but destructive relationship behaviour, which no one really thrives in and it takes serious work on self to break. It seems like your tripping to get back in with her and do the chemical routines again untill you probably end up treating her to a similar situation again- she doesn't deserve it.

Get real about you, dig in to the narcissism books and perhaps you'll start seeing how entirely programmed that 'rejection dance' and ultimately every other life reaction may be.

Remember we cannot do the same thing as we always did and expect different results.

 

[Resistense]

So with my lady friend I feel uncertain, and the bridge has certainly not been burned. As I said, I pushed her away with the understanding that it was me, my own motivations and desires, and nothing wrong with her or really even with our relationship (we were very much stable and got along well, and I could then and can now feel intimacy between us when we interact). There were times during our relationship where I'd want her to change, namely with her diet and Rx use, and times when I tried to sell or force my way of thinking on her. I realize now how foolish this approach was, and how I need to be accepting of her as she is. One thing that just broke my heart to read was "... tell your friend to quit torturing you with trying to force it down your throat! There are people whose job it is to just be sweet, loving and caring and it is the job of warriors to look after them."

Sounds like the best thing that can happen to your 'lady friend' is for you to never speak to her again.

If you actually loved her - really loved her - none of what has happened between you would have happened, so at least care enough about her to allow her to find someone who can love her and who she can love.

Regarding your possible job and job training, at 26 you should have already been supporting yourself, so this opportunity should serve you well. fwiw.

Thoughts like this have crossed my mind, anart. Part of my decision making process was around the idea that she could be a "vector of attack", a psychopath, an OP etc. Looking back I don't have much to base these judgements of her on. Not a healthy way to assess one's partner :( very much focused on the negative aspects and ignoring the good.

To be honest it's much more likely I'm pathological. I sought help from a psychologist at the start of the year, and that was helpful for me, but he categorized me as schizotypal personality disorder. It brings me great anguish what the implications of this could be, with what I've read about it here as well as other places. You may be right, as hard as it is for me to admit, that she'd be better off without me. Selfish of me to keep her hanging on or try to revive the relationship when I know I'm dysfunctional and potentially detrimental to her, that I'm abusing her with the way I treat her :( but at the same time I do love her... in my own maladapted way. Maybe that's not really love... I appreciate your candor but gosh that's hard to consider..

Hi Resistense,

Interesting story which I can relate to. Thank you for sharing. Looking back at the time I was your age I have to say you got yourself pretty well figured out from the looks of it. I don't find myself qualified to go into details too much or give much advice but I want to make two observations of a more general nature.

With this school/work situation I struggle with the idea that I have some grand purpose or vague calling to do something more important. I do find the material interesting, and I can see how it provides an avenue to gain knowledge, serve others in a sense, and learn more about the laws of world creation and world maintenance. That being said, the training is quite specific, and puts me firmly in place as a cog in the wheel of the ugly behemoth of the American medical machine.

As a rule of thumb I would say: It's not so much what you do in life as it is the way you go about it that makes all the difference. You find yourself in this situation now and have to make the most of it in all possible respects. What that might mean in concrete terms is up to you to find out and to put into practice.

So with my lady friend I feel uncertain, and the bridge has certainly not been burned. As I said, I pushed her away with the understanding that it was me, my own motivations and desires, and nothing wrong with her or really even with our relationship (we were very much stable and got along well, and I could then and can now feel intimacy between us when we interact). There were times during our relationship where I'd want her to change, namely with her diet and Rx use, and times when I tried to sell or force my way of thinking on her. I realize now how foolish this approach was, and how I need to be accepting of her as she is. One thing that just broke my heart to read was "... tell your friend to quit torturing you with trying to force it down your throat! There are people whose job it is to just be sweet, loving and caring and it is the job of warriors to look after them."

I think she is so very intelligent and hard-working, her default mode is to be kind and gentle with people, and for the most part she is accepting of my eccentricities (although she does call me crazy and makes bones about my strange and restrictive diet). She is a medical student now starting her rotations (start of 3rd year) and I have the desire to be there with her to help support her.

I have to say I find it more than a little odd that you can make these statements here to us but seem unable to do the same unto the one person to whom it will really matter, your (former) fiancee. Why not copy this or print it, give or send it to her and ask for a personal exchange of views on these matters IF you are really serious about it. Doing so would put both of you on a more equal footing and could forge better understanding, establish greater honesty and enable more solid decision making about a possible common future, wouldn't you think?

She is aware of most everything I've related here, what I think about her and how I feel so conflicted and regretful about my decision. I've also been composing a letter to her with that quote at the first line... Maybe I'll have her read this forum post too, although a source tension for us has been my reading of the Cass material. I haven't been totally open about some of the aspects of the material with her, and how that's played into my decision making, but then again she didn't really ask about it. I agree with your assessment of work type issues. More important that I refine my approach to life in general and the way I apply myself than what it is in particular I'm doing for a living.

With this school/work situation I struggle with the idea that I have some grand purpose or vague calling to do something more important.

Forget about the glory of grand purpose before learning how to walk. The job avenue sounds good, go for it.

Regarding the girl I agree with Anart. Step back and see your relationship and life for what it is; a feeding ground beyond your control. You may feel like getting a sense of your selfishness , throw in some meditation and then return as a reformed man, but that would be wishful thinking. You describe a very normal but destructive relationship behaviour, which no one really thrives in and it takes serious work on self to break. It seems like your tripping to get back in with her and do the chemical routines again untill you probably end up treating her to a similar situation again- she doesn't deserve it.

Get real about you, dig in to the narcissism books and perhaps you'll start seeing how entirely programmed that 'rejection dance' and ultimately every other life reaction may be.

Remember we cannot do the same thing as we always did and expect different results.

Good point. Can't do the same things and expect different results. No real reason to think I wouldn't do the same thing again, and you're right, she doesn't deserve that. She made that point as well that if nothing has really changed I'd likely just repeat the scenario and create more heartache. Like I said responding to anart, the idea of it being a feeding relationship was part of what I considered. My self-serving bias would have me think it's her who's the problem when I'm the one who's most likely pathological and the feeding machine.

Programmed rejection dance... Brings to my mind my only other long relationship when I was younger, where I was rejected, couldn't deal with it at all, and became quite depressed for some time. Makes me realize how similar the feelings were then with what I was going through shortly after moving. Like I created the same situation, somewhat reversed, to make myself miserable (and hurt someone else in the process).

I'm going to check to see if any of the "Big 5" are available at the library or online. Delve into my programs and the way I seek out those feel good chemicals...

Thanks all. The career advice helps me solidify what I already mostly knew but was in denial about. The relationship advice is of course not what I want to hear but may be just what I need to hear.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

She is aware of most everything I've related here, what I think about her and how I feel so conflicted and regretful about my decision. I've also been composing a letter to her with that quote at the first line... Maybe I'll have her read this forum post too, although a source tension for us has been my reading of the Cass material. I haven't been totally open about some of the aspects of the material with her, and how that's played into my decision making, but then again she didn't really ask about it.

I have found forum posts about strategic enclosure and external consideration very helpful in similar situations because we need to externally consider what is good to share and how to interact with other people if conversation goes into esoteric direction (or any other topic). There's some Cass material i've shared with my wife through our intimate conversations but only those that i've expected she can receive and without pointing the source, speaking in general terms. So if there's been tension because you're reading this material, it might be useful to study the importance of strategic enclosure and external concideration.

 

[Alana]

She is aware of most everything I've related here, what I think about her and how I feel so conflicted and regretful about my decision. I've also been composing a letter to her with that quote at the first line... Maybe I'll have her read this forum post too, although a source tension for us has been my reading of the Cass material. I haven't been totally open about some of the aspects of the material with her, and how that's played into my decision making, but then again she didn't really ask about it.

I have found forum posts about strategic enclosure and external consideration very helpful in similar situations because we need to externally consider what is good to share and how to interact with other people if conversation goes into esoteric direction (or any other topic). There's some Cass material i've shared with my wife through our intimate conversations but only those that i've expected she can receive and without pointing the source, speaking in general terms. So if there's been tension because you're reading this material, it might be useful to study the importance of strategic enclosure and external concideration.

Exactly. Resistense, you said elsewhere that you have been reading this forum for a while now. It is surprising that you did not understand that having somebody who is not interested in the material presented here, and with whom this material was a source of tension between you, to read your post and the replies herein is a VERY BAD IDEA!

Seriously, if you care even an inch about this woman, like anart said, let her go have a life with a person who understands her and wants to be with her and is able to love her. Do not write to her, do not contact her ever again. She might be hurt initially, but in the long run it will be better for her. What you are doing now is leaving her in "limbo". Giving her hope on one hand, taking it away, and so on and so forth, hurting her again and again and again. How can you love someone and treat them like this?

Also, what were the "symptoms" that prompted your therapist to categorize you as "schizotypal personality disorder"? Do you know?

 

[Laura]

Sounds like the best thing that can happen to your 'lady friend' is for you to never speak to her again.

If you actually loved her - really loved her - none of what has happened between you would have happened, so at least care enough about her to allow her to find someone who can love her and who she can love.

Regarding your possible job and job training, at 26 you should have already been supporting yourself, so this opportunity should serve you well. fwiw.

Thoughts like this have crossed my mind, anart. Part of my decision making process was around the idea that she could be a "vector of attack", a psychopath, an OP etc. Looking back I don't have much to base these judgements of her on. Not a healthy way to assess one's partner :( very much focused on the negative aspects and ignoring the good.

Sounds more like it is YOU who are behaving in a pathological way. I'm with Anart, You sound so messed up that girl will be better off without you.

To be honest it's much more likely I'm pathological. I sought help from a psychologist at the start of the year, and that was helpful for me, but he categorized me as schizotypal personality disorder. It brings me great anguish what the implications of this could be, with what I've read about it here as well as other places. You may be right, as hard as it is for me to admit, that she'd be better off without me. Selfish of me to keep her hanging on or try to revive the relationship when I know I'm dysfunctional and potentially detrimental to her, that I'm abusing her with the way I treat her :( but at the same time I do love her... in my own maladapted way. Maybe that's not really love... I appreciate your candor but gosh that's hard to consider..

It may also be hard to consider that this may not be the forum for you. As Gurdjieff said, you can't come to The Work unless you are already a good obyvatel and so far, your history isn't good.

You were initially banned, then you wrote an email to me and gave me no information to work with, then decided to take matters into your own hands... Okay, you were given another chance and what did you do with that chance? You wrote this long post that is all about you and your problems that are basically due to you being messed up.

I really don't think this is the right forum for you. I'm willing to hold off on that for the moment and see if you have any real inclination to think about anything other than yourself and draw silly conclusions based on your wants, but be aware - I don't have much patience with peeps who play these kinds of games.

Programmed rejection dance... Brings to my mind my only other long relationship when I was younger, where I was rejected, couldn't deal with it at all, and became quite depressed for some time. Makes me realize how similar the feelings were then with what I was going through shortly after moving. Like I created the same situation, somewhat reversed, to make myself miserable (and hurt someone else in the process).

I'm going to check to see if any of the "Big 5" are available at the library or online. Delve into my programs and the way I seek out those feel good chemicals...

Thanks all. The career advice helps me solidify what I already mostly knew but was in denial about. The relationship advice is of course not what I want to hear but may be just what I need to hear.

Having been given a second chance, best get to reading and sorting yourself out.