mocachapeau
Dagobah Resident
Hi everyone,
A number of things have happened in my life over the past couple of months, one in particular that I would like to share with you.
Some of you may remember that my wife and I went through a rather large bump in the road this past summer that led us to discussing a divorce. I discussed it here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13634.0
Our relationship has been really great ever since. I think that flirting with disaster the way we did made things a lot clearer for both of us. And I learned a lot from the advice and observations some of you made in the above discussion. I've been putting particular attention on the fact that if I truly love my wife, and I do, I should love her the way she is - period.
I realize that the first part of this little story is particularly weird - lame, actually - but there isn't much I can do about that because this is exactly how it happened. I apologize in advance.
Some time near the end of November, I woke up in the middle of the night with a strong urge to wrap my arms around my wife and just hold her, so I did. Not because of any perceived fear or insecurity, but simply because of a strong feeling of love. I've done this a number of times recently and, as usual, she didn't wake up. What was strikingly different on this occasion was the bizarre train of thought present in my mind. For some reason I was "aware" of a kind of prophecy stating that if the woman I am with at this very moment were to wake up and do a couple of very specific things in the way of sexual advancement, this would indicate that she is the woman that I am destined to be with, that she is "the one". And that if she is that woman, we are capable of doing great things together in our life.
Well, what seemed like five minutes or so went by and my wife slept on. And what went through my mind was this: Well I don't care about any silly prophecy. This is the woman I have chosen, this is the woman I love, and I don't care if she's "the one", or not. I was very happy with that conclusion and very happy just lying there holding her in my arms. And then the strangest thing happened. Without any stirring or gradual waking up, my wife quite suddenly started doing the very specific things that the prophecy had indicated.
I TOLD you it was lame.
I am aware of at least some of the reasons (there are probably many more I haven't thought of) why I should not look for any kind of meaningfulness in any of this. First of all, this prophecy thing sounds like something right out of Harry Potter - ridiculous. Secondly, the idea that any kind of sexual activity could have any bearing on who is "the right woman" for me is simply shallow, at best. Thirdly, no matter how my mind made it seem, the whole "prophecy" was probably concocted at the same time my wife was acting, not before. Heck, it could have been formed in negative time for all I know. And the choice of subject matter - fantasy fiction and sex - seems to indicate more about ME than anything else, unfortunately. But one thing I can't deny is that when it was all over, I was really filled with a powerful feeling that my wife really is "the one", whatever that's supposed to mean. So I decided to give this thing a closer look anyway, and if anyone wants to point out how far off my rocker I have fallen, please feel free.
I was fully conscious of where I was and what I was doing but, at the same time, was experiencing a strange thought process that was clearly not a product of my conscious mind. At least I hope it wasn't - that would be too weird. So if it was not a product of my conscious mind, it could have been a product of my subconscious mind. Being aware of both of these at the same time leads me to think that I may have been experiencing a moment of balance between the two. Could this have been an attempt by my subconscious mind to communicate with me? And no matter what the choice of subject matter may indicate about me, if it was an attempt to communicate, could it have been a success? I certainly like the conclusion that I arrived at.
Now I'm going to jump forward a bit.
On the evening of December 23rd I logged in here to wish everyone a happy holiday season. After I did I started reading some of the others that people had posted and one of them really got my attention (although the others were nice, too). It was this one from andi. Sorry I didn't know how to quote it properly.
Posted by andi, December 23, 2009, 2:00:52 PM in the Holiday greetings thread (What's on your mind section)
"Happy Holidays too ya all, and please consume with awareness !
You know... water is essential to life, too much and it is called drowning Undecided
Holidays are a time where people let go, accept and don't look.
It is a time when one is more vulnerable to all the predators for whom Christmas is just a haunting season Evil...you have been warned Roll Eyes..
And for those you love, offer them the "real" love : http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14966.0
Quote
Love Is...
Most of the people I know confuse love with possession. It's easy to see why; it's built into the fundamental assumptions of our culture. "You're mine," says the popular song, "and we belong together." Hardly anyone stops to question the sentiment.
As soon as we feel love, we immediately attempt to possess. We speak confidently of my boyfriend, my wife, my child, my parent. We feel justified in holding expectations about those people. We consider that perfectly reasonable.
Why? Because all our concepts of love ultimately derive from romantic love — and romantic love is furiously, frantically possessive. We want to be with our lover, to have them to ourselves, to feel their eyes on us, to consume their minds and bodies...to possess them.
So strongly do we equate love with possession that we may even feel if someone doesn't want to possess us, they don't really love us. Yet I would argue that what we call romantic love is not love at all. It's a kind of emotional storm, an overpowering, thrilling attraction — but it isn't love.
Because real love isn't possessive. It can't be. We'd all agree that love involves giving, not taking. Yet the desire to possess actually springs from the lover's own need — the need for approval from the beloved, for support from a parent, for straight A's from a child, for status, for financial security — for something. A possessive lover is overly focused on what he's getting, not what he's giving. The lover may dignify his dependency with the name love, but it's a lie. How can you really love somebody when you're dependent on them for things you need? That isn't love, that's just manipulation to keep the needed stuff coming your way. Robert Palmer sings about being "addicted to love," but nobody really is. People are addicted to their needs.
And love isn't the same as need. It just isn't.
Of course, a loving relationship will produce interdependencies. But all too often, the pleasure of freely giving changes to a fear of possibly not getting. It's just that this person — your husband, your girlfriend, your child — is suddenly so important to you. You worry about what's going to happen. What they're going to do. And at that moment, love stops.
People sometimes wonder if they're feeling real love. These same people never wonder if they're sexually aroused, or sad. Then what's the problem about recognizing love? Most often, because they're sensing a conflict: they're feeling the depth of their need, not the heights of their love.
There are ways to know real love. It feels calm. It's steady, and it can easily last a lifetime. It's nourishing — people grow under its influence. They become who they really are, and now what someone expects them to be. Real love isn't blind; on the contrary, people feel understood, accepted for who they really are. It's healing. People recover.
So whenever you hear that love is blind, or love can't last, or love is destructive, you can be sure that you're hearing a description of lust, or desire, or need. And it's an accurate description, because needs really are transient and destructive.
But love is something else entirely. An emotion of deep caring that asks nothing in return, an emotion that is fulfilling without any expectation at all, is so rare that most people in our society can't imagine it. They can't imagine feeling it, or receiving it. They may even come to believe it doesn't exist. But it does.
And it's the best thing there is.
Unquote"
Now, I had read this passage before, and I had tried to talk to my wife about this subject in the past, as well. But her reaction was the same one she usually has to the topics I've discovered through the work: that's interesting but it doesn't apply to me. And she certainly never enters into a discussion with me about these things. I have a pretty good idea why, and I'm sure that one of the reasons is because she feels that, as I've been discovering my own faults, I've been trying to point out hers, as well. And I think on some level she's right.
Anyway, as she was crawling into bed I asked her if I could translate it for her and she agreed. When I was done, I told her that the reason I wanted to read it to her was because it struck me right then that this passage really exemplifies the most important part of what it is I am trying to achieve through The Work. That I really see myself in this passage, particularly in having confused love for concentrating on my own needs, and that my greatest desire is to change the way I love, to real love.
At this point in these discussions my wife's eyes are usually closing and she just turns over and goes to sleep. But this time, she shook the sleepiness from her eyes, sat up in bed and began to speak. Roughly translated, she said, "I think I see myself in those words as well. I know we've always loved each other, but we've loved each other badly. We just need to learn how to love each other well." This was the first time she had ever spoken like this. We talked for a while and then she said something that brought a tear to my eye. "You know how I've always been afraid to talk to you about a lot of things? Well I don't feel that way anymore. And you know why? Because I've noticed that you don't have any of the reactions you used to. You just don't. I've been able to tell you a number of big things recently, and you just haven't had those reactions at all. I can see now that you've changed."
I don't know if this could be considered a confirmation of that odd "prophecy" event, but I think it might confirm something else.
Quote by mocachapeau, September 13, 2009, from the disscussion linked above:
"Also, with my mind so occupied with the state of my relationship, I had a dream. In it I was singing the same melody line over and over. When I woke up I decided to get it down in case it turned out to be a good idea for a song. So I picked up my guitar and started putting the melody line to the chords I thought would be most appropriate and realized that I had heard this before. After some searching I found the song: Just Wait by Blues Traveler. The chorus says "Just wait and it will come". But it gets better. I went through the entire tune to isolate the exact melody line I had been singing in the dream and when I found it, I discovered the words "Do you think your suffering's a privilege you share only?" I think that applies to this situation quite well - my selfishness, and of course that my wife is hurting too."
At any rate, the main reason I wanted to share this with you all is that I feel like I've achieved something. I know it's just one small thing, but that my wife noticed I have changed, and told me so, is pretty huge for me. And I don't think I could have made even this small change without the help of Laura, SOTT and the members of this forum.
A number of things have happened in my life over the past couple of months, one in particular that I would like to share with you.
Some of you may remember that my wife and I went through a rather large bump in the road this past summer that led us to discussing a divorce. I discussed it here:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13634.0
Our relationship has been really great ever since. I think that flirting with disaster the way we did made things a lot clearer for both of us. And I learned a lot from the advice and observations some of you made in the above discussion. I've been putting particular attention on the fact that if I truly love my wife, and I do, I should love her the way she is - period.
I realize that the first part of this little story is particularly weird - lame, actually - but there isn't much I can do about that because this is exactly how it happened. I apologize in advance.
Some time near the end of November, I woke up in the middle of the night with a strong urge to wrap my arms around my wife and just hold her, so I did. Not because of any perceived fear or insecurity, but simply because of a strong feeling of love. I've done this a number of times recently and, as usual, she didn't wake up. What was strikingly different on this occasion was the bizarre train of thought present in my mind. For some reason I was "aware" of a kind of prophecy stating that if the woman I am with at this very moment were to wake up and do a couple of very specific things in the way of sexual advancement, this would indicate that she is the woman that I am destined to be with, that she is "the one". And that if she is that woman, we are capable of doing great things together in our life.
Well, what seemed like five minutes or so went by and my wife slept on. And what went through my mind was this: Well I don't care about any silly prophecy. This is the woman I have chosen, this is the woman I love, and I don't care if she's "the one", or not. I was very happy with that conclusion and very happy just lying there holding her in my arms. And then the strangest thing happened. Without any stirring or gradual waking up, my wife quite suddenly started doing the very specific things that the prophecy had indicated.
I TOLD you it was lame.
I am aware of at least some of the reasons (there are probably many more I haven't thought of) why I should not look for any kind of meaningfulness in any of this. First of all, this prophecy thing sounds like something right out of Harry Potter - ridiculous. Secondly, the idea that any kind of sexual activity could have any bearing on who is "the right woman" for me is simply shallow, at best. Thirdly, no matter how my mind made it seem, the whole "prophecy" was probably concocted at the same time my wife was acting, not before. Heck, it could have been formed in negative time for all I know. And the choice of subject matter - fantasy fiction and sex - seems to indicate more about ME than anything else, unfortunately. But one thing I can't deny is that when it was all over, I was really filled with a powerful feeling that my wife really is "the one", whatever that's supposed to mean. So I decided to give this thing a closer look anyway, and if anyone wants to point out how far off my rocker I have fallen, please feel free.
I was fully conscious of where I was and what I was doing but, at the same time, was experiencing a strange thought process that was clearly not a product of my conscious mind. At least I hope it wasn't - that would be too weird. So if it was not a product of my conscious mind, it could have been a product of my subconscious mind. Being aware of both of these at the same time leads me to think that I may have been experiencing a moment of balance between the two. Could this have been an attempt by my subconscious mind to communicate with me? And no matter what the choice of subject matter may indicate about me, if it was an attempt to communicate, could it have been a success? I certainly like the conclusion that I arrived at.
Now I'm going to jump forward a bit.
On the evening of December 23rd I logged in here to wish everyone a happy holiday season. After I did I started reading some of the others that people had posted and one of them really got my attention (although the others were nice, too). It was this one from andi. Sorry I didn't know how to quote it properly.
Posted by andi, December 23, 2009, 2:00:52 PM in the Holiday greetings thread (What's on your mind section)
"Happy Holidays too ya all, and please consume with awareness !
You know... water is essential to life, too much and it is called drowning Undecided
Holidays are a time where people let go, accept and don't look.
It is a time when one is more vulnerable to all the predators for whom Christmas is just a haunting season Evil...you have been warned Roll Eyes..
And for those you love, offer them the "real" love : http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14966.0
Quote
Love Is...
Most of the people I know confuse love with possession. It's easy to see why; it's built into the fundamental assumptions of our culture. "You're mine," says the popular song, "and we belong together." Hardly anyone stops to question the sentiment.
As soon as we feel love, we immediately attempt to possess. We speak confidently of my boyfriend, my wife, my child, my parent. We feel justified in holding expectations about those people. We consider that perfectly reasonable.
Why? Because all our concepts of love ultimately derive from romantic love — and romantic love is furiously, frantically possessive. We want to be with our lover, to have them to ourselves, to feel their eyes on us, to consume their minds and bodies...to possess them.
So strongly do we equate love with possession that we may even feel if someone doesn't want to possess us, they don't really love us. Yet I would argue that what we call romantic love is not love at all. It's a kind of emotional storm, an overpowering, thrilling attraction — but it isn't love.
Because real love isn't possessive. It can't be. We'd all agree that love involves giving, not taking. Yet the desire to possess actually springs from the lover's own need — the need for approval from the beloved, for support from a parent, for straight A's from a child, for status, for financial security — for something. A possessive lover is overly focused on what he's getting, not what he's giving. The lover may dignify his dependency with the name love, but it's a lie. How can you really love somebody when you're dependent on them for things you need? That isn't love, that's just manipulation to keep the needed stuff coming your way. Robert Palmer sings about being "addicted to love," but nobody really is. People are addicted to their needs.
And love isn't the same as need. It just isn't.
Of course, a loving relationship will produce interdependencies. But all too often, the pleasure of freely giving changes to a fear of possibly not getting. It's just that this person — your husband, your girlfriend, your child — is suddenly so important to you. You worry about what's going to happen. What they're going to do. And at that moment, love stops.
People sometimes wonder if they're feeling real love. These same people never wonder if they're sexually aroused, or sad. Then what's the problem about recognizing love? Most often, because they're sensing a conflict: they're feeling the depth of their need, not the heights of their love.
There are ways to know real love. It feels calm. It's steady, and it can easily last a lifetime. It's nourishing — people grow under its influence. They become who they really are, and now what someone expects them to be. Real love isn't blind; on the contrary, people feel understood, accepted for who they really are. It's healing. People recover.
So whenever you hear that love is blind, or love can't last, or love is destructive, you can be sure that you're hearing a description of lust, or desire, or need. And it's an accurate description, because needs really are transient and destructive.
But love is something else entirely. An emotion of deep caring that asks nothing in return, an emotion that is fulfilling without any expectation at all, is so rare that most people in our society can't imagine it. They can't imagine feeling it, or receiving it. They may even come to believe it doesn't exist. But it does.
And it's the best thing there is.
Unquote"
Now, I had read this passage before, and I had tried to talk to my wife about this subject in the past, as well. But her reaction was the same one she usually has to the topics I've discovered through the work: that's interesting but it doesn't apply to me. And she certainly never enters into a discussion with me about these things. I have a pretty good idea why, and I'm sure that one of the reasons is because she feels that, as I've been discovering my own faults, I've been trying to point out hers, as well. And I think on some level she's right.
Anyway, as she was crawling into bed I asked her if I could translate it for her and she agreed. When I was done, I told her that the reason I wanted to read it to her was because it struck me right then that this passage really exemplifies the most important part of what it is I am trying to achieve through The Work. That I really see myself in this passage, particularly in having confused love for concentrating on my own needs, and that my greatest desire is to change the way I love, to real love.
At this point in these discussions my wife's eyes are usually closing and she just turns over and goes to sleep. But this time, she shook the sleepiness from her eyes, sat up in bed and began to speak. Roughly translated, she said, "I think I see myself in those words as well. I know we've always loved each other, but we've loved each other badly. We just need to learn how to love each other well." This was the first time she had ever spoken like this. We talked for a while and then she said something that brought a tear to my eye. "You know how I've always been afraid to talk to you about a lot of things? Well I don't feel that way anymore. And you know why? Because I've noticed that you don't have any of the reactions you used to. You just don't. I've been able to tell you a number of big things recently, and you just haven't had those reactions at all. I can see now that you've changed."
I don't know if this could be considered a confirmation of that odd "prophecy" event, but I think it might confirm something else.
Quote by mocachapeau, September 13, 2009, from the disscussion linked above:
"Also, with my mind so occupied with the state of my relationship, I had a dream. In it I was singing the same melody line over and over. When I woke up I decided to get it down in case it turned out to be a good idea for a song. So I picked up my guitar and started putting the melody line to the chords I thought would be most appropriate and realized that I had heard this before. After some searching I found the song: Just Wait by Blues Traveler. The chorus says "Just wait and it will come". But it gets better. I went through the entire tune to isolate the exact melody line I had been singing in the dream and when I found it, I discovered the words "Do you think your suffering's a privilege you share only?" I think that applies to this situation quite well - my selfishness, and of course that my wife is hurting too."
At any rate, the main reason I wanted to share this with you all is that I feel like I've achieved something. I know it's just one small thing, but that my wife noticed I have changed, and told me so, is pretty huge for me. And I don't think I could have made even this small change without the help of Laura, SOTT and the members of this forum.
