some self importance?

I was adviced by a person on the forum to post this thought I had regarding applying to join the church...



As for joining a church... the line by groucho marx ' I dont care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members' pops into my head. that or i'm scared of getting rejected. Or some other reason I've no idea about which makes me not want to apply for membership.

Peace.


anyway, figured why not. Maybe others have this kind of thinking as well, so it won't be just about posting something for myself.
 
Do you feel there is something unworthy about yourself? Can you distill it down to what happens? Like if you've attempted to fill out the form, what do you think/feel when you read the questions or are you not able to get to that point?
 
lamalamalamalama said:
As for joining a church... the line by groucho marx ' I dont care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members' pops into my head. that or i'm scared of getting rejected. Or some other reason I've no idea about which makes me not want to apply for membership.

truth seeker said:
Do you feel there is something unworthy about yourself?

I recall reading in I think either Trapped in the Mirror or Myth of Sanity, about the thought behind this exact quote. And how, people who have a very low self-esteem tend to think like this because they don't want to be part of a group who would accept them, because they see themselves as so unworthy. Most of the time these things are due to some sort of trauma experienced in the person's youth.

I wonder, have you read any of the Big 5 including the 2 books I mentioned above? If not, they will probably help you greatly in finding out where these feelings stem.

Narcissism "Big Five"
Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

Your feelings of unworthiness go hand in hand with your feelings of rejection that are also probably due to parental neglect or trauma in your youth. All these are discussed in the books, so I highly recommend them fwiiw.
 
I dug up the bit I was talking about earlier about that quote. It was from Trapped In the Mirror.

Trapped In the Mirror said:
Applying the values of an externalized society to one’s self cause narcissistic wounding. We use the word narcissistic to show that it self-love that is harmed. When self-love depends on externals, on others’ opinions of what you are and do, the self is betrayed. A woman who possesses great natural beauty was described by her boastful mother in front of company as “beautiful as a movie star”. When she heard these words, the daughter cringed in shame, feeling herself to be worthless, because she was only valued for her surface.

A healthy self has nothing to do with stardom. Psychological health comes from acceptance starting in early infancy of all that you are, good and bad, dirty and clean, naughty and nice, smart and stupid. In the adult, health is manifested by an accord between ideals and actions, by the ability to appreciate yourself for what you attempted to do as well as for what succeeds. It means recognizing that although you are not perfect you are still worthy of love.

In high school, coaches attempt to strengthen character by telling their charges to do their best and to ignore whether the outcome is win or lose. Our externalized society is so addicted to winning that such advice is but a weak antidote to the pressure placed on youngsters by hysterical parents, idealizing students, and the school board, all of whose egos need a win to contradict a basically shaky self-image.

To grow up to be a whole person, infants, toddlers, and children in their formative stages need the experience of genuine acceptance, they have to know that they are truly seen and yet are perfect and lovable in their parents’ eyes, they need to stumble and sometimes fall and to be greeted by a father’s or mother’s commiserating smile. Through parental acceptance, children learn that their “is-ness”, their essential selves, merit love. Self-love is learned through identification. Positive self-regard is the opposite of what the narcissist knows. He is “in love” with himself precisely because he cannot love himself.

As a child, the narcissist-to-be found his essential self rejected by his narcissist parent. The wounds of the parent are a template for the wounding of the child. Each narcissistic parent in each generation repeats the crime that was perpetrated against him. The crime is non-acceptance. The narcissist is more damaging, and deforming of the child he identifies with more strongly, although all of his children are pulled into his web of subjectivity. How can he accept offspring who are the product of his own unconsciously despised self? His attitude is a variant of the Groucho Marx Syndrome, “I would not love any child that would have me as its parent.” The child has rejection as its birthright.

The child who will eventually turn into a full-scale narcissist most often had a narcissistic mother. The reason why the maternal narcissist is more often likely to turn her child into a fellow narcissist is because the mother most often provides the predominant care that defines the baby’s early world, if the father is narcissistic and the mother is not, the father’s traumatic impacts the attenuated at the time when the child is establishing a sense of self.
 
lamalamalamalama said:
As for joining a church... the line by groucho marx ' I dont care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members' pops into my head. that or i'm scared of getting rejected. Or some other reason I've no idea about which makes me not want to apply for membership.

I had pretty much the same feeling when I thought about joining. I didn't think I would be able to do what this organization expected of me, that I wouldn't have the self-discipline required to sustain the effort needed to change my diet, do EE every day and everything else. It felt like I would be putting too much pressure on myself if I were to "sign on the dotted line". There was also another "I" that was afraid of getting too involved, joining a group that was opposing the PTB in such a bold way.

But when I posted about these feelings someone pointed out that it sounded like I was demanding perfection of myself, and that if perfection was a requirement for the Fellowship there wouldn't be any members. Also, that it sounded like maybe my predator didn't want me to join. Therefore maybe what I should do is exactly the opposite of what my predator wants, thus taking away some of it's power over me.

I thought that made sense so I joined.

In doing so I believe I fought some of my fears and I won, at least on that day.
 
Hi mocachapeau,

Just as a clarification, nobody here said that the one must do the E/E breathing program everyday. Do what is comfortable for you. Some can only do this once in a while while others do it every Monday and Thursday as recommended. Then again, not everyone can do the entire program in one go. Some break it up and do it in portions and slowly progressing to the full program when one is capable and comfortable doing so.

lamalamalamalama, have a look at the Statement of Principles of the "church" and if you are comfortable with that, by all means join but no one is forcing you to. Have a look here also as to what the principles mean. :)
 
Vulcan59 said:
Hi mocachapeau,

Just as a clarification, nobody here said that the one must do the E/E breathing program everyday. Do what is comfortable for you. Some can only do this once in a while while others do it every Monday and Thursday as recommended. Then again, not everyone can do the entire program in one go. Some break it up and do it in portions and slowly progressing to the full program when one is capable and comfortable doing so.

lamalamalamalama, have a look at the Statement of Principles of the "church" and if you are comfortable with that, by all means join but no one is forcing you to. Have a look here also as to what the principles mean. :)

That was what I think they were trying to tell me. It was I who had interpreted it that way, and because of that I didn't think I would be able. And I was also wondering if I was strong enough to sustain the effort. They helped me to understand what you just wrote, that I don't need to do it all, all the time. I can do it in whatever way is "doable" for me. That turned out to be an effort I could sustain.

And you are right, no one is forcing anyone to join, and no one tried to force me. I just found the points they made applied to me, personally, and it was something I already wanted to be a part of. I was just questioning whether or not I would be a "worthy" member. But that was the wrong way to look at it. "Worthy", to me, now means someone with the desire to work on it however they can, for the right reasons.
 

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