Speaking two languages into old age can stave off dementia, study find
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we are doing just great here!! 200 ml of red wine daily [don't attempt to drink it alone - no effect] makes you feel even better!:)
Add: after spending the whole day looking at piles and piles and piles of human bodies in Auschwitz, Treblinka, in Stalingrad, Kursk, Hiroshima, mutilated kids, and looking at portraits of psychopaths (that probably including psychopath scientists who eagerly developed
A-bomb) in names of which tens of millions normal people died i had to find this thread and write a ridiculous one-liner to cheat my ego up!
The life doesn't seem that bad if one can understand one more language. Circus tricks of ego are incredible!
Add: after spending the whole day looking at piles and piles and piles of human bodies in Auschwitz, Treblinka, in Stalingrad, Kursk, Hiroshima, mutilated kids, and looking at portraits of psychopaths (that probably including psychopath scientists who eagerly developed
A-bomb) in names of which tens of millions normal people died i had to find this thread and write a ridiculous one-liner to cheat my ego up!
The life doesn't seem that bad if one can understand one more language. Circus tricks of ego are incredible!
Yeah!CarpeDiem said:
I suppose the more languages you speak fluently, the more brain pathways you have.
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3739690.stm
I admit that I complained a lot when I had to learn a third language in order to study and work in Italy. But then, probably it was for my own good. Now I just love it. Currently I'm getting used to this Catalan language, which is kind of funny. It is like a mixture of Spanish, Italian and French. I suppose things change when you have to learn something completely different, like Chinese...
A quite sick sidenote: today i translated some medical records from spanish for a friend of mom's friend. When i firmly refused to take anything as a little payment for that (some chocolate), - i didn't intend to be paid for that at all; that person was literary upset and didn't understand completely that one can do something without requesting any payment. It goes as unwritten rule if you do anything for anyone that anyone has to 'pay' you with something in return. You anticipate. She didn't get me that one can actually do anything without anticipation. It's so sad because almost everybody here thinks and does like that.
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
When a person gives a gift to someone and that gift cannot be reciprocated what the giver actually has done is a put themselves in a position of superior power over the receiver. I would suggest reading Marcel Mauss's classic, Essai sur le don, or, in English, The Gift.
In fact, this is how power structures are constructed, the "boss" gives you more than you can give back, and you become one of the boss's "men."
There needs to be balance, in my opinion, so if you give someone a gift you need to let them give you a counter-gift, or else there will be problems. As important as generosity, is the ability to receive from other people.
In fact, this is how power structures are constructed, the "boss" gives you more than you can give back, and you become one of the boss's "men."
There needs to be balance, in my opinion, so if you give someone a gift you need to let them give you a counter-gift, or else there will be problems. As important as generosity, is the ability to receive from other people.
CarpeDiem said:
A
Anders
Guest
The key thing here is not to anticipate payment and then as Donald says have the ability to receive from someone if something is given in return IMO.carpediem said:
Just like she gave you the opportunity to give, then I think it is important to give her the opportunity to reciprocate.
DonaldJHunt said:
Let’s dissect this one as quite simple model situation.
Donald, for example, you can read and quite decently translate from [mandarin]. A friend of friend calls you one day asking if you can translate couple of pages from [mandarin] for someone else you don’t know and never met before. Your intent is whatever your response will be not to participate in sts feeding machine - not to be feed upon and not to be a food for someone else. What would be a STO choice?
- refuse under any pretext or even without any
- take it and let it slow die in one of far drawers (lying that you will do it and not do anything)
- do it because you were asked, but refuse chocolate because you perceive it as a form of ‘payment’ for something you intended to do without any payment. And person you translation for, you never actually met, you were handed text to translate and then, ‘payment’ from the third person [mediator].
- do it and receive reciprocal ‘payment’ from third person [mediator] in any form.
I did what I did, it was my default action, which in 3d is sts. I try to avoid any ‘payment’ for anything I do, accepting one only from employer. I think acting STO is more like living in a symbiotic network, symbiosis being the key concept, rather then ‘giving’ and ‘receiving’ in pairs when you do anything for anybody, and that concrete anybody does then anything for you.
In this simple situation what was STO way of acting? And what was theological drama behind?
Donald, for example, you can read and quite decently translate from [mandarin]. A friend of friend calls you one day asking if you can translate couple of pages from [mandarin] for someone else you don’t know and never met before. Your intent is whatever your response will be not to participate in sts feeding machine - not to be feed upon and not to be a food for someone else. What would be a STO choice?
- refuse under any pretext or even without any
- take it and let it slow die in one of far drawers (lying that you will do it and not do anything)
- do it because you were asked, but refuse chocolate because you perceive it as a form of ‘payment’ for something you intended to do without any payment. And person you translation for, you never actually met, you were handed text to translate and then, ‘payment’ from the third person [mediator].
- do it and receive reciprocal ‘payment’ from third person [mediator] in any form.
I did what I did, it was my default action, which in 3d is sts. I try to avoid any ‘payment’ for anything I do, accepting one only from employer. I think acting STO is more like living in a symbiotic network, symbiosis being the key concept, rather then ‘giving’ and ‘receiving’ in pairs when you do anything for anybody, and that concrete anybody does then anything for you.
In this simple situation what was STO way of acting? And what was theological drama behind?
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Just a quick interruption - a symbiotic network can only exist if all involved understand that this is what it is. One cannot impose symbiosis on others. Thus - assuming others understand or desire what you desire, with this symbiosis, is a lack of external consideration.CarpeDiem said:
And - if one is truly trying to serve others, then, perhaps, understanding their needs and expectations -- not making them uncomfortable -- is a crucial part of that. If you are paying more attention to what you consider serving others to be, rather than to what others really need or are expecting/asking - then are you truly serving others, or are you just serving yourself by fulfilling your own expectations?
Simply put -- if your generosity is making someone else uncomfortable - then perhaps you are acting in your own self interest - as opposed to truly acting in service of others - fwiw.
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
I agree with what Anart said.
Also, it's not symbiosis is you only give and don't receive.
External consideration would require that you accept something from someone in return so they don't feel bad or indebted. That would really, in my thinking, be more STO than refusing to accept something.
In the primitive and archaic gift cultures, refusing a gift is a declaration of war. So if the person you did a favor for didn't offer anything in return, then you don't have to worry, but if they did offer something, and you won't accept it, you are refusing a gift. Of course we don't live in a gift culture so there won't be a war between your clan and theirs, but it still underlies a lot of social order despite the dominance of capitalism, particularly at the emotional level.
For example, a feature of U.S. midwestern and southern working-class culture is the concept of "owing someone a favor." This is distinct from bartering, because there is no anticipation of reward and no calculation of equivalencies. But people keep track of who owes someone a favor. And this is all done between friends and relatives. For example you spend a day helping a friend fix their car. At the end your friend says, "I owe you a favor." Then there is no pressure to settle-up right away, and money would be insulting in some way. But later, and it could be a year later, you need to cut down a big tree on your property and remove it, if your friend has equipment or time to help you, he will volunteer to do it by saying, "I owe you a favor." People keep track in their minds who owes whom a favor. It helps keep people from feeling bad asking others for favors.
In your case, since you didn't know the person you did a favor for, it might have been a good idea to let them give you something right away, unless you know that they have some skill or something you could use someday. Then you could say, "you don't need to give me anything, but someday I may ask you to help me with _______."
A person should be real careful when violating deep unwritten rules of social order. It might cause a big reaction from the General Law.
Also, it's not symbiosis is you only give and don't receive.
External consideration would require that you accept something from someone in return so they don't feel bad or indebted. That would really, in my thinking, be more STO than refusing to accept something.
In the primitive and archaic gift cultures, refusing a gift is a declaration of war. So if the person you did a favor for didn't offer anything in return, then you don't have to worry, but if they did offer something, and you won't accept it, you are refusing a gift. Of course we don't live in a gift culture so there won't be a war between your clan and theirs, but it still underlies a lot of social order despite the dominance of capitalism, particularly at the emotional level.
For example, a feature of U.S. midwestern and southern working-class culture is the concept of "owing someone a favor." This is distinct from bartering, because there is no anticipation of reward and no calculation of equivalencies. But people keep track of who owes someone a favor. And this is all done between friends and relatives. For example you spend a day helping a friend fix their car. At the end your friend says, "I owe you a favor." Then there is no pressure to settle-up right away, and money would be insulting in some way. But later, and it could be a year later, you need to cut down a big tree on your property and remove it, if your friend has equipment or time to help you, he will volunteer to do it by saying, "I owe you a favor." People keep track in their minds who owes whom a favor. It helps keep people from feeling bad asking others for favors.
In your case, since you didn't know the person you did a favor for, it might have been a good idea to let them give you something right away, unless you know that they have some skill or something you could use someday. Then you could say, "you don't need to give me anything, but someday I may ask you to help me with _______."
A person should be real careful when violating deep unwritten rules of social order. It might cause a big reaction from the General Law.
And what if needs and expectations of asking you a favor / service person (in case they are clearly stated, and you don’t need to quess) are in conflict with your ‘essence’ (if a mechanical man has one). I was asked to do something I’m quite uncomfortable with, this involves several persons and I was asked to intentionally lie ‘to help’ other person and not only that. That person incessantly makes calls several times a day to the point that I don’t respond to calls. Laura wrote about STO choices in chapter 5 of Adventures, more of general considerations; is there anything I could read - nuts and bolts of underlying sts-sto dynamics, something practical? If I recognize respective drama and play a role properly that would help to make a conscious choice I would not regret afterwards. I'm striving to understand dynamics, if i only 'get' it!!! Is that possible to make sto choice in sts world at all? Thanks, Anart and Donald for help!! I'll try not to high jack this threadAnart said:
I’m high jacking the thread, sorry for that.
Mr. Premise
The Living Force
Don't worry about hijacking the thread. This whole discussion of "favors" and "gifts" and such is getting really interesting, I think.
Can a moderator move it to a new thread?
As to your discomfort with the whole thing, it is not for nothing that, as Mauss pointed out, the word "gift" has the additional meaning of "poison."
The question of whether you felt manipulated and forced into doing the original favor is a whole other question, I think, than the question of accepting something in return after it was done.
Gifts initiate relationships and it looks like you got hooked into a relationship you didn't want. There is, I think, no reason that you have to continue to be manipulated. That would be getting sucked into an STS feeding dynamic.
Can a moderator move it to a new thread?
As to your discomfort with the whole thing, it is not for nothing that, as Mauss pointed out, the word "gift" has the additional meaning of "poison."
The question of whether you felt manipulated and forced into doing the original favor is a whole other question, I think, than the question of accepting something in return after it was done.
Gifts initiate relationships and it looks like you got hooked into a relationship you didn't want. There is, I think, no reason that you have to continue to be manipulated. That would be getting sucked into an STS feeding dynamic.
CarpeDiem said:
You are actively shifting gears, Donald. As if I didn’t get where are you heading…
As for Mauss’ poison, maybe Mauss didn’t know that poisonous snakes venom [in homeopathic doses] saved quite few butts. If a receiver has 2 firing neurons, he will see a poison from something he can use. If poison, it will go directly where it belongs, to the trash can; if receiver is more elaborate, he can send poison back and let sender die from his own venom. There also are probably quite rare cases when even poison, if it gets into skillful hands gets transformed by virtue of Master in elixir. As for the big snake i don't know, i maybe right about it, and i maybe wrong about it. But the little one was whispering into the ear of Fulcanelli.
As for Mauss’ poison, maybe Mauss didn’t know that poisonous snakes venom [in homeopathic doses] saved quite few butts. If a receiver has 2 firing neurons, he will see a poison from something he can use. If poison, it will go directly where it belongs, to the trash can; if receiver is more elaborate, he can send poison back and let sender die from his own venom. There also are probably quite rare cases when even poison, if it gets into skillful hands gets transformed by virtue of Master in elixir. As for the big snake i don't know, i maybe right about it, and i maybe wrong about it. But the little one was whispering into the ear of Fulcanelli.
Graalsword
Jedi Council Member
I agree and I`d like to add another little thing here,DonaldJHunt said:
For that other person, the giving of a gift in exchange for the translation you did CarpeDiem, it is her way to give back to the universe for the help she received. It is her way to make the energy flow. But then, I think is not to go to extremes such as "to accept or to not accept the gift"...but maybe if you didn't need the chocolate, you could ask her to help you or give you something else that is more helpful to you, thusly helping her and yourself at the same time, as she would have given something useful for you, therefore generating a creative spiral in both people's lives.
Years ago in the mountain village where we used to go in the summers, I gave french lessons to a boy in junior high. He had to take a make up exam at the end of summer. Actually I offered my help as it would be a win win situation, he would benefit and I would benefit by rehearsing my french. So he passed the exam and his mother brought me a gift. Although I protested saying that I did not expect anything and that actually I got my reward and that it was him who actually helped etc. In the end I had to accept because she had lost her husband last year and was working from home knitting sweaters by machine and proud of looking after her childen. Not accepting the gift would be really humiliating her. I still have that pink lizeuze ( a night time sweater).