sterilising the mirror

[mugatea]

hi, I was wondering how the SOTT times team and those at the future group deal with their own pathologies? Do the peeps have a recognition that they are mirrors that choose to reflect objectivity back into the world and therefore how do you steralise that mirror from pathologies so your objectivity isnt tainted and you dont accidentally pass on your own parasites onto others?

I imagine a scenario that is quite ruthless with other members mirroring back to you your own pathologies which i imagine would be difficult at best with some possibly finding it too much. ( maybe?)

Cause I see pathologies as parasites that can be passed on and infect others thru the mirror we reflect onto the world, they feed of your negative energy and stop you observing the here and now in the real world and pull an fictional alternative reality in its place. This way without seeing things as they are they improve their chances of being found out. They stop you thinking logically and instead reflexing emotionally, and feeding off this charged emotional state. At times they will reward their host with an emotional hit to reinforce this behaviour that feeds it. They can mildy or strongly turn their host in pathological/parasites by ginving them their own mind meaning they host can charge others emtionally which in turn can create feeding frenzies for the pathological attachments.

Anyway, the way i see it is when a parasite gets exposed it makes its host feel as it does, scared vurnerable and even tho people with parasites may not be in any harm from having their pathologies exposed, every cell in their body may act like they are facing death, not because they are in danger or harm but because the pathology has control of the host and therefore its the pathologies fear of death that the person is feeling.

anyway back to my question, how do you rid yourselves of pathologies, is their a specific method?

jamie

also is my term pathological correct?

 

[T.C.]

Hi mugatea

how do you rid yourselves of pathologies, is their a specific method?

I can't speak for anyone else, but being on this forum has shown me some ways of dealing with personal pathology.

Studying pathology itself is the most important thing. Reading about the traits of psychopaths for example, it is scary when one sees some of the traits in oneself. Then the desire to not be a bad person can fuel attempts to change the more obvious problems one may have. Reading the 'big four' psychology books is important because they deal with the nuts and bolts of everyday STS existence; how pathologies develop, how to spot them in their many and varied manifestations, how to see them in oneself and how to deal with them.

The other side of how to change oneself comes from interacting with other people who also want to change, are interested in the best methods to do so, and sharing thoughts, feelings, impressions and experiences with those people. By saying something like, "there was a situation at work today and it made me feel angry and I reacted in a selfish way, I think it happened because of A and B; would you agree?" then you can get feedback and advice from others to see if you're reading the situation correctly or not, and then apply it to your life so as to change in the way you would like.

Hope that helps.

 

[mugatea]

hi TC,

I agree with everything you said, especially the quote, "The other side of how to change oneself comes from interacting with other people who also want to change, are interested in the best methods to do so, and sharing thoughts, feelings, impressions and experiences with those people."

I think looking at our unobjective behaviours objectively by ourselves can be a bit difficult to say the least.

So discovering our pathologies give us awareness of our own parasitic/reflexive behaviours and therefore a choice and thus the potential for greater freewill and to 'learn thyself'. But it's no good just examining our own mirror we must also learn to objectively examine the mirror that reality reflects back at us and thus this gives us the chance to recognise the parasitic/reflexive behaviours in reality and therefore to 'learn thy world'.

My question is when one knows thyself and thy world are they then free?

 

[T.C.]

when one knows thyself and thy world are they then free?

There was a session that addressed that pretty well:

Q: (MM) Don't you get more free will by assimilating
knowledge?
A: Yes!! Yes!!
Q: (L) So, in other words, knowledge and awareness makes
you aware that you have free will, and also makes you aware
of what actions actually ARE acts of free will, and therefore,
when you know or suspect the difference between the lies and
deception and truth, then you are in a position to be in control
of your life?
A: Yes.

And that confirms what you wrote here:

So discovering our pathologies give us awareness of our own parasitic/reflexive behaviours and therefore a choice

 

[PepperFritz]

is my term pathological correct?

No. I think you are referring to a person's "subjectivity" and "programs". "Pathological" is usually used here to refer to people with highly destructive and specific "pathologies", such as Psychopathy, Malignant Narcissism, Personality Disorder, etc. Such pathologies are not "curable" and so there is no "method" for rooting them out.

So, for the sake of clarity and accuracy, I will hereafter replace your word "pathologies" with "subjectivity/programs".

how do you rid yourselves of [subjectivity/programs], is their a specific method?
My question is when one knows thyself and thy world are they then free?

Well, first of all, we are all STS (and therefore "subjective") by nature, as it is a condition of our third-density existence. Therefore, we can never hope to be completely "rid" or "free" of subjectivity/programs. However, that having been said, yes, there is a specific method that we recommend to members for identifying their subjectivity/programs and gradually reducing their potential for clouding objectivity. That method is "the Work" and can be summed up as follows (taken from our standard "introduction" to new forum members):

The ideas of Gurdjieff are frequently discussed on the forum. If you're not familiar with Gurdjieff, you might want to read a little about his 4th Way teaching, generally referred to here as "the Work". It is a method of self-examination recommended to and practiced by most members of this forum, as a way of seeing ourselves, others, and the world around us from the perspective of OBJECTIVITY, rather through the distorting prism of our own SUBJECTIVITY -- i.e., our emotional issues, programs, mechanical behaviour, sacred cows, and wishful thinking. The Work benefits from active participation in a group/network like this, where others also involved in the Work can provide feedback and act as a mirror in which we can see ourselves more clearly.

You'll also find frequent references on the forum to the following "Big Four" psychology books, which are extremely helpful tools towards acquiring a basic understanding of your own "machine". Laura suggests that they be read in the following order: The Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout; The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman; Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Goulomb; and Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort.

The Work is not like a course you take to get rid of your subjectivity and programs, and then you're done. Those who approach it with a focus on becoming "program-free" quickly become frustrated and discouraged. For just as you think you've mastered your subjectivity in a certain area, here comes another program to nip that idea in the bud. The self-observation involved in Work is not so much a goal as it is a daily practice, not so much a destination as a journey. The more you treat it as such, the more you will "succeed" at it.

I think looking at our unobjective behaviours objectively by ourselves can be a bit difficult to say the least.

Yes, exactly. That's why the Work cannot be done in isolation. The idea is that whereas one person on their own can easily fool themselves into thinking they are being "objective", a group dedicated to the persuit of objectivity is more likely to be able to identify that person's self-deception and offer a more objective perspective on a given issue.

How does the SOTT times team and those at the future group deal with their own [subjectivity/programs]? Do the peeps have a recognition that they are mirrors that choose to reflect objectivity back into the world and therefore how do you steralise that mirror from [subjectivity/programs] so your objectivity isnt tainted and you dont accidentally pass on your own parasites onto others? I imagine a scenario that is quite ruthless with other members mirroring back to you your own [subjectivity/programs].

Yep, that pretty well sums up the method. The importance of the work that they do cannot be over-emphasized; therefore, there is a very strong awareness of the need to maintain extremely rigorous objectivity in everything that they do. And "group" interaction/mirroring is key to that. This forum performs the same function for its members. The more a member participates in discussion, brings up issues of subjectivity/programs for other members to offer feedback on, the more they are able to benefit from the group dynamic.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

 

[mugatea]

thanks pepperfritz, that post helped a lot and clarified things.