STS 3D and STS 4D

[msante]

I'm reading a book (The people of the evil - by Scott Peck) and I find that in general I can not agree with much of the principles in this book. The author's vision is full of Christian principles that I do not share. The main one is that evil is an anomaly, an illness, a diversion, to the good. Anyway some ideas about STS 3D and 4D haunt my head and I am confused about it. I would like to share to hear other opinions.
It occurs to me that STS 3D and STS 4D are different. In general I observe that the 3D man lives in a state of drowsiness, lethargy, immersed in an illusion induced by STS 4D while self-induced or fed back to the same condition STS. Some souls in 3D, as a result of its evolutionary path, develop their potential STO and begin to glimpse the true reality behind the veil. Others remain "asleep" most susceptible to manipulation by the most advanced STS forces.
I wonder: Is there a third category of 3D soul "awakens"to a more conscious STS? I observe that the "evil " world is exercised on many occasions by people who do evil, they hurt other beings, in a state of semi unconsciousness. Let me explain better. For example, a parent mistreating their child because it's not like he wanted to be, or do all those things that he wanted to do and never could. At the same time rationalize this mistreatment with all sorts of arguments that explain and justify this mistreatment. Lying to others, and especially himself, with the only purpose of prolonging the time this mistreatment, and possibly not to confront painful realities about their lives, their frustrations, ...
But having to resort to lies in order to practice evil, seems to suggest the existence of a certain awareness that his conduct is evil, and an underlying desire to do good. It is as if the soul in the background did not want to cause this pain, so in order to perpetrate this pain, he is forced to self-delusion. This is a confusing point to me. Is perhaps this kind of awareness, potential STO, which can "materialize" at some point in the evolution of the soul? Or is this the way that STS occurs in 3D? Is this the result of STS in 3D is not a final choice yet?
Although I imagine there may be a 3D STS conscious, willing to cause pain and suffering to literally feed on them, I suspect it is less common.
I guess instead, 4D STS is aware of their orientation, of their purpose, and dont feel guilt or need for self-deception when it comes to causing pain and suffering to other beings.
Are those ideas correct?

 

[Leo40]

Hi, msante:

One can consciously choose the STS path. It simply means service to self.
It results in an all consuming desire to control and use others for one's exclusive
benefit. When one reaches perfection on this path one moves to 4D.
The endresult is total obliteration due to entropy.

In short the purpose of existence in our 3D world is to learn lessons and to make
choices. Of course if one is asleep one can not choose.

 

[msante]

Thank Leo40!
It is still unclear to me. I understand the formal definition of STS and STO, I also understand that there is a choice of direction to follow. Anyway, I still feel that STS 3D is not equal to STS 3D.
I do not understand at what point in the evolution of the soul takes the final desicion. I do not forget that we are all STS. Do we choose to be? From reading the "wave" I conclude so. But it is also true that many of us can choose an STO orientation.
Again, it is unclear to me how the process of evolution of souls, and at which point they are inclined to STS or STO.

 

[Leo40]

Thank Leo40!
Again, it is unclear to me how the process of evolution of souls, and at which point they are inclined to STS or STO.

It's not a matter of inclination but choice.
Let me try a wild guess. This example comes from Robert Monroe's books. (TMI).
A soul chooses to enter 3D because it is curious. but then gets stuck in the cycle of karma
and returns and returns.... until it makes a different choice. Then things will change.
Does that make sense to you?
Also if you read some of the introduction of other forum members you will find many who express
a dissatisfaction with the status quo and begin to question. Then they make the choice to search
for truth, reality etc.; trying to find out what is really going on.
Thats how it starts anf it does not matter how many lifetimes it takes.
imo this process of discovery is infinite!

 

[Aiming]

But having to resort to lies in order to practice evil, seems to suggest the existence of a certain awareness that his conduct is evil, and an underlying desire to do good. It is as if the soul in the background did not want to cause this pain, so in order to perpetrate this pain, he is forced to self-delusion.

As far as I understand it, maybe the real evil-doer (the one who's doing it consciously) only justifies, because there are others with a conscience and thus he needs to justify it. On the other hand, the thing with STS is that they believe their lies to be the truth, thus to them, it is no lie (and the most extreme kind of wishful thinking is 4D STS, where their wishful thinking indeed becomes reality).
Hope I haven't added to the confusion.

 

[msante]

As far as I understand it, maybe the real evil-doer (the one who's doing it consciously) only justifies, because there are others with a conscience and thus he needs to justify it.

Interesting idea of lies aimed at others. Anyway I can imagine that there are beings in 3D with different levels of STS. Some may lie to justify with others, but I also think that some people lie to themselves. Anyway it's a good point on which think.

On the other hand, the thing with STS is that they believe their lies to be the truth, thus to them, it is no lie (and the most extreme kind of wishful thinking is 4D STS, where their wishful thinking indeed becomes reality).

This is a confusing point for me too. Did a 4D (STS or STO) is supposed to have a more evolved soul that any 3D? I think I still have not managed to understand the idea of evolution.
A 4D STS to be immersed in an extreme form of self-deception because his thoughts become reality and can see only what they want. How does this may be more evolved than a 3D candidate be STO that he sees the truth behind the veil?
Sorry, maybe my questions are somewhat innocent, but they are questions that haunt my head.

 

[Psalehesost]

It's not a matter of inclination but choice.

To my understanding, there is inclination, or a seed or potential for a development - and if given an unweighted choice, that inclination will determine that choice. Apart from that basic inclination, there is no reason to choose one or the other. Connecting to this, I think, in the Ra material it is described that beings often begin to move along their eventually-chosen path before they become aware of a choice. However, manipulation can also cause a choice along the STS path in one who otherwise would have chosen the path of STO, or divert an STO candidate to STS.

On the other hand, the thing with STS is that they believe their lies to be the truth, thus to them, it is no lie (and the most extreme kind of wishful thinking is 4D STS, where their wishful thinking indeed becomes reality).

This is a confusing point for me too. Did a 4D (STS or STO) is supposed to have a more evolved soul that any 3D? I think I still have not managed to understand the idea of evolution.
A 4D STS to be immersed in an extreme form of self-deception because his thoughts become reality and can see only what they want. How does this may be more evolved than a 3D candidate be STO that he sees the truth behind the veil?
Sorry, maybe my questions are somewhat innocent, but they are questions that haunt my head.

Their self-service is fully evolved - while in the case of a 4D STOer, other-service is highly evolved.

As the C's point out, "enlightened does not mean good - just smart". The 4D STSer has gained a tremendous "weight" in its direction, and evolved its self-serving reasoning to the maximum.

To switch to (4D) STO requires enormous effort with the result of a > 50% STO orientation, to graduate to 4D STS requires a > 95% STS orientation, both of which demand equal effort at polarizing. The average 3D STSer here is (presently) stuck in what Ra terms "the sinkhole of indifference", within a range close to the middle of those two.

Whether graduating to 4D STO or 4D STS, equal effort and dedication is involved, and equal change in the state of being of the being - though in completely different directions. So there is an equal amount of evolution from the starting point.

Laura quotes from Michael Topper on how STS consciousness works in The Wave online chapter 13f. One point that is highly relevant here:

The level of ability of a soul to align in one way or the other via WILL, is the measure of it's "harvestability" to 4th density at the end of each Master Cycle which, according to many sources, is the period in which we live at present.

"Harvestability" is the manifest "ripeness" of the soul to proceed by virtue of the intensity with which it holds its view of reality. This means that subjective, one pointed devotion to Love of Self, manifested as preference of the self's view of reality over and above whatever the objective reality may actually manifest, is capable of achieving a dedicated integration.

 

[obyvatel]

On the other hand, the thing with STS is that they believe their lies to be the truth, thus to them, it is no lie (and the most extreme kind of wishful thinking is 4D STS, where their wishful thinking indeed becomes reality).

This is a confusing point for me too. Did a 4D (STS or STO) is supposed to have a more evolved soul that any 3D? I think I still have not managed to understand the idea of evolution.
A 4D STS to be immersed in an extreme form of self-deception because his thoughts become reality and can see only what they want. How does this may be more evolved than a 3D candidate be STO that he sees the truth behind the veil?
Sorry, maybe my questions are somewhat innocent, but they are questions that haunt my head.

I think that "evolution" to 4D may be dependent upon the level of integration possible within the fragmented personality structure little I's , fusion ). The process of integration through fusion is also termed crystallization which can happen on different foundations. Both Gurdjieff in In Search Of The Miraculous (ISOTM) and Mouravieff in Gnosis talk about crystallization on negative foundations which may indicate potential for 4D STS transition.
From the quoted excerpt from Laura's Wave (thanks Psalehesost), we see that harvestability to 4D is related to Will and the intensity with which the consciousness holds on to its view of reality. Will seems to be dependent on the level of crystallization and by default, the majority of people on 3D earth have little will due to lack of integration/crystallization. This is what I think is indicated by Ra's term "sinkhole of indifference" applied to the average 3D person here.
Here is a quote from ISOTM regarding crystallization.
[quote author=ISOTM]
"Fusion, inner unity, is obtained by means of 'friction,' by the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' in man. If a man lives without inner struggle, if everything happens in him without opposition, if he goes wherever he is drawn or wherever the wind blows, he will remain such as he is. But if a struggle begins in him, and particularly if there is a definite line in this struggle, then, gradually, permanent traits begin to form themselves, he begins to 'crystallize.' But crystallization is possible on a right foundation and it is possible on a wrong foundation. 'Friction,' the struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' can easily take place on a wrong foundation. For instance, a fanatical belief in some or other idea, or the 'fear of sin,' can evoke a terribly intense struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' and a man may crystallize on these foundations. But this would be a wrong, incomplete crystallization. Such a man will not possess the possibility of further development. In order to make further development possible he must be melted down again, and this can be accomplished only through terrible suffering.
"Crystallization is possible on any foundation. Take for example a brigand, a really good, genuine brigand. I knew such brigands in the Caucasus. He will stand with a rifle behind a stone by the roadside for eight hours without stirring. Could you do this? All the time, mind you, a struggle is going on in him. He is thirsty and hot, and flies are biting him; but he stands still. Another is a monk; he is afraid of the devil; all night long he beats his head on the floor and prays. Thus crystallization is achieved. In such ways people can generate in themselves an enormous inner strength; they can endure torture; they can get what they want. This means that there is now in them something solid, something permanent.
[/quote]

 

[Ares]

hi msante, this particular topic is one of my most favourite, and i've done a bit of research in this area :) my view is basically what Psalehesost and Obyvatel explained in excellent detail. let me try to combine them:

the first concept is that we are all 'asleep' - 'all' being a general term here. this sleep was a result of a veil imposed on humanity by 4DSTS forces as they successfully took over this planet - which i understand was STO-oriented before then, approx 309,000 years ago (source - Cs, marciniak, Ra). This veil caused people to forget their link to higher densities (and the possibility of higher awareness in them), caused them to experience time in 3D, and a whole host of other factors. Supposedly one of the ways this was done was by modifying the human physical body (i'm not sure if other bodies were also modified likewise) by burning of DNA strands that related to higher awareness and functionality. Because humanity chose (at some level) this state, which the Cs describe as 'reaching for the gold', this planet in 3D has become STS by default. I understand it was the other way around earlier. This descent from 3D/4D hybrid STO existence to 3D STS is termed as 'the fall', but i guess not from the point of view of 4D STS ;)

So here we are since the last 300,000 odd years, fumbling about in our sleeping state, a few trying to reach back up to higher awareness, while others doing much harm due to their ignorant state. Reaching back to higher awareness is made most difficult by some sort of frequency fence (as per Ra) that the 4DSTS have imposed on the planet to make sure people cannot awaken, because the purpose of taking over the planet was to use us as their food source (by maximizing our negative emotions to feed). I am not sure if there were other secondary objectives.

The actions that a sleeping person performs under this sleep state can be nothing but mechanical, as described by gurdieff, ouspensky and mouravieff. This includes actions both of a seemingly positive or negative nature, as the source of the actions is not the real I (which existed before the fall), but the innumerable 'little I's that are a result of our being in this state. Without crystallizing all of the Is, we cannot perform conscious actions - we are not true MEN (or women) - we are just robots. For your observation on people who make conflicting actions (good and bad) from time to time can be attributed to their fractured mechanical natures, which is a result of the ignorance bought on by 'the fall' - which you must remember was a choice (even if it was a manipulated one). This is applicable only to the potentially souled humans who are asleep, and does not apply to organic portals and psychopaths. Organic portals are theorized as 2D souls that evolved to 3D, but not quite 'full' 3D souls (full by virtue of existence of all 7 centers/chakras - in potential). Because organic portals do not have all their higher centers (only the lower 3) and do not have individual souls (more a group souls akin to animals) , they cannot develop further without help from fully-souled 3D or higher beings.

So the whole point now is for souls to awaken to the reality of their existence, and their true natures. This can either be STS, or STO. Only by making conscious choices and sustained effort in either direction, can a person finally awaken and understand their true nature. If a person is inclined to STO, they will need to make sustained choices that serve others, while a STS inclined person will have to make choices that serve himself - consciously.

At one point Laura had asked the Cs what must one do to move on to the next level, and the Cs cryptically said people have to learn the simple lessons in life, including 'karmic understandings' (hope i got that correct). Apparently people like gengis khan made conscious STS choices by killing millions of people during their time of existence, and have graduated to 4D STS, while others such as buddha and others have done the opposite to move on to 4D STO. Laura once commented that besides the ignorant potentially souled people plus the psychopaths that are the main cause of strife and misery in this world, people who are CONSCIOUSLY evil are the really dangerous ones, because they are doing this as their choice. Psychopaths and their ilk (and the organic portals) then logically should be tools in their hands.

Ofcourse, the 4DSTS forces are trying (and have been trying for timeless eternity) to ensure nobody graduates to 4DSTO, which will dwindle their food source and make things more difficult. I'm sure they'll have backup plans should a sizeable number of people manage to reach 4D STO - the Cs mentioned STS have set up events in such a way as to maximize the coming catastrophes to both ensure maximum negative energy release (their 'food'), as well as to hopefully control us should we move to 4D. On a positive note, the Cs also mentioned that STS plan will fail because with their wishful thinking they can only see what they want to manifest, and cannot view reality objectively. Hopefully this means things will not turn out exactly as the 4D STS forces want it to.

Sorry for the long story ;) hope that helps...

 

[msante]

Psalehesost, obyvatel, moksha... THANKS!!! You have been very helpful. You have helped me sort out my thoughts and given me the key points on which I must reflect and research.
moksha: this particular topic is one of my most favourite too. Thanks for your time and patience.
Thanks to all again!

 

[Ares]

no worries, replying to your query has helped me gather my thoughts as well :)

cheers!