Tai Chi Practioners...

Novelis

Jedi Master
Hello everyone!!
Let me just begin with a few niceties, I adore the site, it's been a real source of inspiration and...dare I say it, guidance.

I am wondering if anyone here practices any form of yoga/martial arts? I'd love to discuss any experiences anyone might have had.
 
Took Tai Kwon Do, got my Reiki attunement and i have always had a fuzzy awareness of chi flowing in/around my body. With the prior i learned how to expel it in a forceful manner intent on causing damage to my target. In the later i learned how to allow it and all the ambient energy to gently flow through my arms/hands into a person intent on healing/repairing damage. Granted i've only had the most preliminary lessons of both arts, but nonetheless i learned alot and it's impacted and changed who i am.
 
Hello,

Funny you should ask! Am having a bit of a dilemma over whether to discontinue Kung-fu. I've had maybe ten or so sessions: tho it's initially tough on the body, you can quickly sense its holistic properties (like improved concentration of the mind) ... but I wonder if the the dedication required to fully engage with it is 'worth it': I always think back to what what the C's say - it is the SOUL that matters!

And so, I'm thinking of switching to yoga - it has a distinct advantage over the martial arts: it's not geared towards confronting and disabling our opponents, whom, in the physical realm, we stand NO chance of defeating anyway!!

Our psychic armory, on the other hand, has plenty to gain from the subtle openings provided by yoga. Yoga's a vast series of inter-related disciplines tho: can anyone point the way for me?!

Neil
 
starsailor said:
Our psychic armory, on the other hand, has plenty to gain from the subtle openings provided by yoga. Yoga's a vast series of inter-related disciplines tho: can anyone point the way for me?!

Neil
Here is a link to Laura's review of a book that we suspect is a symbolic description of how to discern between STS and STO traditions:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/tibet.htm

And of course, "Secret History" also describes in some detail some of the characteristics that one can see in various traditions and cultures that could help one make a more informed choice about what to use one's time on.
 
Yoga and Tai Chi?

I really think that the popular new age-ish understanding of tai chi is intergrally flawed. Tai-chi is the practice of Dim-Mak theory, but then again, you do need to distinguish between Chen and Yang styles, and also you need to look at the lineages to see if you are discussing an actual Tai Chi, and not a 'copy'.

On another note. The pursuit of advancement has been replaced with the illusion of attaining some special psychic power. Remember this is the physical realm, if you aren't prepared for the hurdles here, you sure as hell aren't prepared for those at the next stage. This constant focus on practicing meditation to try to manifest some sort of pyshical protection is a red herring spiritually. It is one thing to be AWARE of the possibility, it is another to delude yourself into thinking you can ACTUALIZE the possibility.
 
Starsailor,
Yoga simply means "practice", and kung fu is just another form of the exact same thing, whatever you have learned in kung fu will contribute to every other yogic practice. All roads lead to Rome in the end.
Personally, I don't practice kung fu in order to fight, there is a whole lot more to it than that I believe, I practice Tai chi, where there are no attacks at all, and it’s all there only to protect the body. The way I see it is, who knows what might happen in the future, when the economy falls, there will be many desperate people who will do anything to survive, suppose a group of people try to rob you of everything you've got, what will you do? Yes, it's the soul that matters, but we are in 3rd density, and if you can develop a method to protect yourself in horrible situations, then it's definitely useful. I've been reading into the Dao of tai chi, it says that being alive is a expression of the universe and is completely natural, by learning kung fu you are simply learning how to sustain this naturalness, in all respects of life, the fact of the matter is, we live in a violent world, and learning how to protect your life, or nature isn't only advisable, it's necessary. Kung fu evolved from yoga in the first place, it's completely the same in terms of the lessons one must learn in order to master these disciplines. It's merely the emphasis which is different, there is nothing you can learn in yoga that you can't in kung fu, it's all just a form of dancing really, a series of movements in line with the laws of the universe that sustain life, the thing is, if you are going to repeatedly perform movements until it's absolutely ingrained in the subconscious, why not perform movements that will help you in a spiritual sense and in a confrontational situation as well? I don't know what kung fu you are learning, but in tai chi we learn to never confront, we react to attacks, doing what is necessary to protect oneself. Who says we stand no chance of defeating 3rd density opponents anyway!?
I aspire to attain a high level sufficiency with my physical armoury and psychic armoury; it's one and the same to me. I think the body represents the spirit and vice versa.
Look at it this way, suppose there are a finite amount of lessons to learn from yogic practices, which, at the end of the day is all just a study of Qi anyway, you've started your journey with kung fu, but you won't abandon it just because you switch paths to yoga! Different verse, same song. Once you've learned, you've learned. And there isn't anything you can't practice that won't contribute to the whole, I'd say, practice kung fu, and Yoga! The more angles you look from to observe the same thing, the clearer the picture will be.

Crye2067,
That's awesome man! You've demonstrated exactly what I am trying to say.
It's all about balancing the internal with the external, you are doing Tae kwon do, an external art, but purely external arts won't teach you the subtleties of spiritual advancement, so you've done Reiki, thus balancing the scales, this is exactly what I am trying to achieve with yoga, you've discovered something fantastic, something I am realising now, it doesn't matter which discipline you chose, make up your own!

Finally, a message for Starsailor, nothing is wasted...Ever! Even if you only learn a tiny bit of kung fu, there are situations you'll now be able to deal with, and situations you can't help, this holds true for you and the greatest grand master of all time. The more you do, the more you'll want to do naturally.
 
Atreides,
There is no correct "doctrine" I think, remember, the communists devastated all kung fu, most of what survived are only fragments of the original teachings, but that doesn't stop you from practicing until you discover the ancient teachings that the masters found through practice for yourself. As long as you sincerely seek naturalness and aspire to reach the supreme ultimate, you'll find it in the universal consciousness eventually anyway.
 
I practiced Jiu Jitsu for awhile, however there was absolutely no spiritual element to it whatsoever... ;)
 
This is a story I heard once, consider if you will:

A wise man is walking down the street, he comes across a young man, he asks "What would you like to achieve in life?"

The young man replies "I want to be a doctor".

"Are you sure you want to be a doctor? Why not a teacher? Why not a scholar?” the Wise man asks.

The old man continues walking along, when he comes across another young man, he asks the same question "What do you want to achieve in life?”

The young man says "I want to become a kung fu master."

The old man replies "Why not?"

This story really made me think.
The fact of the matter is, if one is determined to be a kung fu master, then they are simply wanting to learn about this body that inhabits 3rd density, you are learning about the laws of nature, I saw a documentary about Bruce Lee once where he was talking about mimicking water when you fight, but it doesn’t end there, I am learning about rooting yourself like a tree, using circles and spirals to move. Yoga is knowledge. The C’s talk about how knowledge protects, and that is knowledge in every respect of the world, so many people neglect this fact, since I’ve started Tai chi, I now do everything more in line with nature, and this includes every physical, mental and spiritual activity I chose to pursue, the first man wants to be a doctor, but that aspiration will have more meaning and he’ll probably flow with the universe easier if he wants to do kung fu. It’s so useful to learn about the fundamental laws of this universe, and once you begin, you’ll appreciate just how wonderful and vast nature really is.
Apologies to anyone who isn’t bothered about this, I know I’m ranting on and on but I’m rather enthusiastic about this subject.
I hope this is useful for someone… I'm not purely saying this for my own sense of Righteousness.
 
Hey Novelis, I'm listening! :)

Thank you, your criticism and thoughts on this are most welcome. I've been practising Hung Ga - http://www.yeeshungga.com/ for a couple of months now. Like every other choice I make however, I'm taking my time fully committing to it! The gist of my 'internal debate' centers on something you brought up...

"The way I see it is, who knows what might happen in the future, when the economy falls, there will be many desperate people who will do anything to survive, suppose a group of people try to rob you of everything you've got, what will you do? Yes, it's the soul that matters, but we are in 3rd density, and if you can develop a method to protect yourself in horrible situations, then it's definitely useful."

In plotting one's direction from here on in as best one can, how much emphasis to place on the more 'survivalist' methods of defence... a la Alex Jones, say! (American 'Christian Patriot' - encourages everyone to bunker down with supplies 'n' ammo!)... and how much emphasis upon just opening up and letting the 'natural flow of things' take its course, thereby placing one's faith in it all? [Please excuse my coarse metaphors - 'tis a very subtle philosophical distinction I'm trying to get at!]

I guess the answer lies somewhere between the two... you're right, Crye2067 has the right idea: balance rules!

Thanx again,

Neil aka Starsailor
 
Actually, I've had an interesting history with both Yang style Tai Chi and Hatha Yoga. I had my first yoga class with a friend who is an instructor (but not of this particular class). I had the most wild reaction. I was told that the next day I may have a detox. Well, the next day, my heart was SO itchy. I should also mention, my partner was away visiting his sick mother at the time. So, the day after my detox, I had an EXPLOSION of compassionate energy. Well, I'm a messy, lazy person normally, while my other half is very neat (not quite The Odd Couple, but you get the idea). Well, I proceeded to detail our home, doing things like cleaning behind the fridge, dusting above door frames, etc. That was great.
In talking to my yoga instructor friend, she let me know that she understood that the yoga meditation were good for treating stress, while the asanas (movements) were good for depression. Well, at the time, I was unemployed, but not depressed, but I figured, yoga couldn't hurt. So, I started going to classes very often. Funny thing, it was only then that the depression hit, and got worse over time. The depression went away eventually when I quit yoga.

For the last 3 years, I've been practicing Tai Chi, and have recently started the push hands forms. While I feel Tai Chi is less 'powerfull' than Yoga, it seems more usefull for cultivating an awareness of conflict. I've always avoided conflict, and this seems helpfull.

Just my $.02
 
Starsailor, I can see what you are getting at, and I am not saying we should all martially prepare ourselves for an all out war, I was more trying to express that the fact that I want to pursue this path mainly because it teaches you how to become more natural physically, mentally and spiritually, which would prepare you for practically any endeavour you might come across.
Tai chi's methods of fighting is indeed very useful if the situation that calls for it arises, but it only makes up for about 15% of why I am doing it in the first place, most of the emphasis for me is on spiritual benefits I can gain from it, learning how to defend myself is just another benefit to be had, plus it's also fascinating I think.
Joeshmore, in working with Kundalini, you are clearing away parts of yourself where the energy is stagnant, and that very often involves dealing with past issues and often painful experiences that created the cobwebs in the energy body in the first place. That is why energy work can be dangerous; sometimes one isn't prepared to face the problems, so I would recommend a practice that is very progressive. Tai chi is quite good for that.
Since I've started energy work, I've had lots of periods of depression, but once you start it isn't wise to stop, although it may be painful, the result is always growth; there was a lesson for you there! And the more severe the depression is the more fundamental it is to the root of your addiction to STS tendencies. Just because when you stopped practicing the pain went away doesn't mean the problem you have within has gone away, in fact, it could've become worse and more difficult to get rid of!
 
For me it started with dancing...at parties in college. Then it was just dancing....anywhere...usually alone in my room with or without music. Eventually it turned into moving meditation, which I had never heard of, but I was doing it. Interestingly enough, 3 months later I signed up for an exercise class at my University that had no designated title at that point. I showed up the first day and discovered Tai Chi for the first time. I was as good as my teacher by the end of the course (not a Master by any means). Because of this experience I continued on to study Traditional Chinese Medicine (and more Tai Chi). There was something about the body movement, the Tai Chi, the awareness....it just opened doors for me...spiritually, mentally, & physically. Now I am teaching my husband Tai Chi and we hope to start a class for senior citizens when we get settled.


I enjoy practicing Yang style Tai Chi in a natural setting...preferably under trees. It seems to stop time for me...like swimming in a timeless womb.

I am also a big fan of shamanic-style dancing. Not only can it be great exercise, but it seems to remove me from myself and put me in a grander picture...so i sense my connection to the universe vs. my own ego. This practice involves much more chaos than Tai Chi...which suits my life better at times.

tree
 
I am practising tai chi and a not so famous martial art .

I agree about signal reliability. Today the few reliable sources in the martial art field (it certainly applies to other fields) are surrounded by a lot of unreliable noise (including new age buzzes). See for example all the unreliable source about Tensegrity (C. Castaneda magical passes).

I don't even know if the source I tuned on is reliable. Time and attention will hopefully tell.

In the martial way there is the opportunity to get a strong experimental feedback (pain, injuries, loss,...), that might prevent more efficiently from wrong pathes/approaches.

I guess many ways lead to the same goal. Probably that you'll have to find the way that suits you. Your way.
 
The physical body is kind of my forte. Not in the same way you think. I am a circus artist, so if my body is not in workable shape, I don't eat. When survival is on the line, alot comes into focus that is not normally understood. I believe Laura's end quote is particularly useful here:
When a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight it concentrates his mind wonderfully. Samuel Johnson

When food depends upon activity and the refinement of it, then you wake up to what is really necessary and what can be discarded.

A few facts that I've learned along the way. I lived and studied Shaolin Style in a monestary in China and traveled extensivly there for a year and a half. I did so because I wanted to find out what all the hype was about with martial arts. I'm not a martial artist, though I've done my share of training (and find little need to practice the patterns. Instead I keep my mind and body fluid and awake as possible.). I discarded most of what it has to teach as being unecessary. Yes I can punch a person, or kick a person. More often than not, there a multitude of other options that will perserve yourself (and others.) aside from the actual violence. It is also a well known point that it's considerabley harder to hit a retreating opponent than an offensive one. There are also a multitude of factors in each situation that can effect it's outcome aside from the skill of the fighter. I've seen and experienced violence in many forms in my travels. Theres alot more happening there than just skill.
I speak relativly fluent Chinese. I'm actually performing a stand-up circus/comedy show in Taiwan this fall with a friend (the REALLY fluent one.) completley in Mandarin. The word Kung Fu is a bastardized version of Gong Fu. Gong Fu simply means SKILL, that is all. For example, Gong Fu Cha is the skillful art of preparing tea properly. My friend, the fluent one, translated it best as "the art that transends mere surface beauty.".
Wu Gong is a better translation to the word 'martial art', Wu meaing Martial. Much like the english word, the real sense of the 'art' is not readily understood or actually necessary in this day and age. Firearms have made hand to hand combat almost extinct. Also, the refinement of law enforcement has made most physical 'scraps' more difficult to excuse. Shaolin was overtaken by dogma years ago. It's the sole reason it survived the communist takeover. Anyone who spoke out was machine gunned to death. The Taoist were either rounded up or they dissapeared.

As a race, we aren't NEARLY as physical as we once were. All of these 'styles' of martial arts were developed during a period when humans did alot more rigerous work with thier bodies. Life was incredibly hard, and the body became hard in the process. Stretching came about by certain people who recognized that it alleviated pain in the body. It does by stretching muscle fibres to increase blood circulation. Circulation allows for proper healing.
Properly developed muscles with proper circulation will open ones senses the the finer workings of the elecrto/chemical properties of the body...aka. Chi flow and the likes.
There is a very fine line between modern martials helping or hindering ones awareness. Alot of times it gives one a false sense of confidence in matters of violence. ESPECIALLY when one considers the turmoil that will overtake the planet eventaully. It will be more important to be a sprinter or marathon runner in times ahead than a martial artist. You might fantasize the obsurd notion of standing up to your opressors and become toast quite quickly.
So if your studying martial arts for survival and/or defence I would say be wary of dogma and overconfidence. If your studying it for spiritual purposes...weellllllll, you can do that with any form of exercise if you practice it enough. I know pleanty of old circus artists, thier bodies lithe and fluid, who speak of the spirituality behind thier movements. I myself have experienced this, no violence involved.
Martial Arts in western countries more often than not have a ranking system. I'm pretty wary of this. It's very 'pyramid like'. Also you strive to meet the criteria of the rank as opposed to striving for true understanding. A real art is not nearly as cut and dry. Alot of times I don't know if I'm getting better or not with what I do. So I have to just keep at it, keep LOOKING at it instead of saying 'oh, I've got a brown belt now and need to just do THIS to get a black.'.
SO. Develop the body. Stretch it to increase is fluid and electrical circulation and just stay AWAKE.
 
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