The apprentice and the master

[Knobbingham]

Initially I wanted to write within the 'Are You Getting Enough Sleep?' thread. But one thing usually leads to the next and before I knew it, I had more text concerning another topic altogether. I also want to note that I haven't seen any UFOs or aliens. I never saw a sasquatch and I don't, in any way, feel special when compared to my fellow flesh automatons. Anyway, Here's my original message:

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Just want to extend my thanks to those discussing trouble with sleeping soundly, here. Since I started the EE breathing exercises and the meat diet, I've had some terrible nights of nearly no sleep. This, I suspect, is due to some form of adjustment phase. This is definatly a new stage in this life. It's relevant to mention that me and Mary Jane aren't seeing eachother, (I still love her, we just need some time away from eachother) and although I've had a few moments of struggle, I'm feeling better than ever. During daytime, I've been fully awake! Not suffering from the half-focused irritability that is normally associated with sleep deprivation. I've reflected a whole deal on my personal feelings and opinions during this time - and that's how I sense that this is for the better and only temporary. Last night I had a good 5 to 6 hours of rest. So according to my science, I'll sleep like a rock tonight.

Thanks again, all of you.

I'd like to share with you a strange insight that came to me from my sleep, one night. It was an 'idea', or perhaps, a conclusion of some sort. It has to do with the student and teacher relationship. The concept seems to be very true, but it is not easy to word this thought so bear with me. I have to share, type it, before it fades from my memory.

My 'vision' was that of an apprentice who time and time again failed in his experiments, but preserved all the way to towards mastery of his craft. His teacher, who understood the experiments and concepts, also preserved as he would continuously explain himself and go to great lengths to formulate his practice. The teacher (although surely irritated at some stage!) would never reprimand the student out of frustration. And then it was over.

After processing the concept, it occurred to me that I had been watching the optimal relationship between student and teacher. The true relationship. The slow but deliberate student will have the additional advantage of knowing where the teachings can be misunderstood, as he has experienced failures in the past (later still, I would find the same thing written when Gurdjieff speaks about how people value their gains, and how what is easily achieved is often not valued). Before this insight, I always assumed that the faster reader and the better listener with the quicker wit would also be the better student.

 

[paralleloscope]

Hi Knobbingham, you might want to cut out doing 'warriors breath' if your doing the EE program before bedtime, as it seems to energize.

As for Mary Jane, I assume you're hinting to the grass variant and not a girlfriend. It is not encouraged or even allowed here to discuss potential illegal passtime habits for reasons of forum security. Besides such chemical relations may likely cheat one of developing right chemical reactions that comes with growing the mind.

 

[truth seeker]

As for Mary Jane, I assume you're hinting to the grass variant and not a girlfriend. It is not encouraged or even allowed here to discuss potential illegal passtime habits for reasons of forum security. Besides such chemical relations may likely cheat one of developing right chemical reactions that comes with growing the mind.

Indeed.

Knobbingham, I see that your post above was written prior to last nights conversation and so I'm assuming that you're now up to speed in terms of the forum guidelines. Please refrain from further references.

 

[Knobbingham]

As for Mary Jane, I assume you're hinting to the grass variant and not a girlfriend. It is not encouraged or even allowed here to discuss potential illegal passtime habits for reasons of forum security. Besides such chemical relations may likely cheat one of developing right chemical reactions that comes with growing the mind.

Indeed.

Knobbingham, I see that your post above was written prior to last nights conversation and so I'm assuming that you're now up to speed in terms of the forum guidelines. Please refrain from further references.

Understood. I will strive keep the noise to a minimum. My wish was to express there is an incredible potential within the mind, but it is only available to those who actively seek it, and are aware of the pitfalls of modern society. Feel free to edit the original post, as I am currently unable to do so.

 

[Knobbingham]

(One of) my teacher(s) brought about the theory of 'conversational ethics' today. The dos and don'ts of speaking with another individual. He never forced this topic (nor has he ever wanted to discuss anything regarding my person), so I asked him to explain this concept to me. The topic arose when I explained my frustration with not having the ability to converse without expressing my beliefs and somehow expecting these to be accepted.

He bordered the theme of corrupt communication briefly, and proposed that topics of personal, religious nature should be avoided as a general rule when engaging a stranger in casual conversation. Then he told me a story of a dinner he had attended, where he had met another individual and had taken him to be the likable type. As the evening progressed, the likable guy revealed himself to be somewhat of a dedicated racist, much to the disappointment of my teacher. An argument occurred shortly after this discovery.

And he then suggested, that the wiser speaker abandon the conversation altogether, not necessarily in a hostile manner, but forfeit his opinion from a discussion including someone (in this case, formerly likable guy), who has shown himself to be undeserving of very basic facts. He then proceeded to let me know how much he despises when people mis-quote him and recount what he meant, instead of what his exact words were. It is to my benefit that this particular teacher isn't around at present:

And so it became clear to me that today's society is absolutely permeated with incorrect methods of communication; from billboards to back alleys, television to text messaging from the womb to the tomb. The majority of us are taught a certain school of rhetorics and rewarded by our abilities to manipulate, enslave and dominate by it. And even those possessing the correct communication skills would be lucky to find a speaker with a vaguely similar skill set, on the opposite side of the conversation. Without a doubt, I hold my teacher in high regard, but he is essentially a secular man with secular needs and wants. I expected his teachings to be of a secular nature. This time, however, he brought some very real lessons up for me to study at my own pace.

This line of thought had lead me back to the question; why I also seem unable to engage in conversations with individuals who could be attributed with being sociable, easy-going, humorous, out-going and generally well liked. These people used to strike me as deceptive, superficial, ego-centric, perhaps even mechanical. Consequently, I would stand out as anti-social, arrogant, aloof and passive to the people who identify strongly with verbal communication. And I had been trading words with all of these on a daily basis, apparently with no knowledge of who is saying what and for what reason they had said it.

I had restricted my verbal communication to individuals who either asked questions in a mathematical way, (i.e. 2+2=?, "Where did you put the Persian carpets?") or were willing to tolerate "discussions" of a philosophical or political nature, ones that usually consisted of me giving an answer and them agreeing with me. The path chosen is positively painful at the absence of true language, only further complicating the journey! Now, I recognize this; that the above is alot of "me's" "my selves" and "I's".

Because the language remains corrupt.

 

[anart]

Now, I recognize this; that the above is alot of "me's" "my selves" and "I's".

Because the language remains corrupt.

Actually, it's because all you are thinking about is yourself. It's all about you. Consider the idea that you are the least important person in every conversation and see how things change. When you go through life expecting others to meet your needs (even conversationally), you entirely miss the point - the point is that your effort should be placed in meeting theirs. Through that you'll find an entire Universe that is currently hidden due to your self-focus.

 

[Knobbingham]

Another few introspective points: perhaps these might come to benefit others who found themselves in a similar situation, or so one would hope. I have been avoiding the writings of Ouspensky for a long time, fearful that the insights produced of my study would neccessitate monumental change. Since my most recent discovery of self-consciousness and self-inquiry, I have undertaken a great deal of experiments, the results of which have formed in me an entirely new view of this world.

I've found a new spectacular value in daily, physical tasks that before I thought to be irrelevant and apprehending. Submitting the physical self to the will of others has granted in me a new sensation that I have yet to fully crystallize, yet I realize the continual necessity to do so, relentlessly and without expectation. Little by little, my social demands seem to be decreasing as my patience and tolerance increases exponentially.

Two weeks ago, I challenged myself not to act in offering advice to others in this very forums until I had a very basic sense of truthful communication instilled in me. In my study of 'In Search of the Miraculous', I have discovered a great many things by ways of theory preceeding practise and on more than one occation I nearly fell into the pit of insanity and cold nihilism.

Consequently, I have wronged a number of people in the process, which is to say that I have turned negative emotions towards others. These events have transpired when losing focus of my self-observation.

Upon my study of the Law of Octaves, I have come to realize several things that brought great pains and insights. Things that I before believed to be defining characteristics of my personality are no longer of any interest to me. My loss of friends and family is, perhaps, the single most devastating blow to my former personality. Without dietary revision, the practise of pipe-breathing and accepting the neccessity for strategic enclosure, it would not be possible to have survived this.