The Fall by Original Sin

[FrankM4326754]

The original sin. If the original sin was when Adam and Eve ate of the apple from the Tree of Knowledge one may question why it was deemed as a sin. Well because the tree of knowledge was forbidden of course.

This now brings the question, Why would God forbid his creation from the gaining of knowledge if in fact he created us with a brain? Is it not the purpose and function of the brain to learn and discern truth from lies? To grow in ways that virtually seem insurmountable but in fact after great effort of study we can accomplish a much greater society than the one we currently partake. What could possibly be the overarching point of it (the brain) if it was not? One ponders that maybe this original sin didn't occur as written. Eating the apple from that tree has caused all to suffer regardless of whether you were involved in the act or not? Or was this simply a symbolic metaphor of some kind? Was this whole story something of deeper value? Who knows? I certainly do not know but wish to see what others think. Please offer your insight if you wish. Collaboration is the key to unlock answers hidden behind locked doors.

 

[Laura]

You are assuming that this story is even factual or historical. What if it is just made up? What if the original version of it was different and it was distorted for political/control reasons?

 

[shijing]

Welcome to the forum, FrankM4326754 :) We encourage all newcomers to make an intro post in the Newbies section, just saying a bit about yourself and how you found us. Looking forward to seeing you there!

 

[FrankM4326754]

Indeed. The implication of this story being fabricated in which I can reason as being certainly a probable case makes sense. But if this is fabricated and was done so for political/control reasons, I now must contemplate if the reasons that were then in progress are in fact the same reasons that are present within society now. So in essence, when one person is out-of-line per se with a question like that of which was posed to St. Augustine which I believe went like this, "What was God doing before the Big Bang?" And he then retaliated with, "He was creating Hell for those who ask that question." is in its purest form a directly correlated example of controlling the power of free will to ask and discover truth? So the parallel here is that the story may be a landmark or milestone to specifically point to for the STS type when STO people gather together and question any traditional or nontraditional thoughts. In essence it is to control individuals from truly gaining knowledge to protect themselves from trials and tribulations that are meant to corrupt us and trick us so that they may gain our energy? This then would virtually stop us dead in our tracks of progressing to the ideal state of ones soul? Is this correct? I hope everyone can make sense of this.

 

[Nienna]

Indeed. The implication of this story being fabricated in which I can reason as being certainly a probable case makes sense. But if this is fabricated and was done so for political/control reasons, I now must contemplate if the reasons that were then in progress are in fact the same reasons that are present within society now. So in essence, when one person is out-of-line per se with a question like that of which was posed to St. Augustine which I believe went like this, "What was God doing before the Big Bang?" And he then retaliated with, "He was creating Hell for those who ask that question." is in its purest form a directly correlated example of controlling the power of free will to ask and discover truth? So the parallel here is that the story may be a landmark or milestone to specifically point to for the STS type when STO people gather together and question any traditional or nontraditional thoughts. In essence it is to control individuals from truly gaining knowledge to protect themselves from trials and tribulations that are meant to corrupt us and trick us so that they may gain our energy? This then would virtually stop us dead in our tracks of progressing to the ideal state of ones soul? Is this correct? I hope everyone can make sense of this.

Hi FrankM4326754, have you read Laura's The Secret History of the World and How To Get Out Alive?

 

[FrankM4326754]

Funny you ask, I'm about half way through it. That quote about the questioning to St. Augustine may actually have been in her book. Why exactly do you ask though? Is my inquiry actually covered entirely in it? This is very strange because I feel as if its all in her material now. I apparently must be rather dense. Or maybe I'm supposed to explore this topic a bit more? Not quite sure at the moment. Do provide some guidance please.

 

[Laura]

Funny you ask, I'm about half way through it. That quote about the questioning to St. Augustine may actually have been in her book. Why exactly do you ask though? Is my inquiry actually covered entirely in it? This is very strange because I feel as if its all in her material now. I apparently must be rather dense. Or maybe I'm supposed to explore this topic a bit more? Not quite sure at the moment. Do provide some guidance please.

There's Secret History and the Wave series and then tons of discussions here on the forum. You are kind of at the beginning and probably champing at the bit. Steady as she goes. Too much, too soon, can be overwhelming.

 

[Nienna]

Funny you ask, I'm about half way through it. That quote about the questioning to St. Augustine may actually have been in her book. Why exactly do you ask though? Is my inquiry actually covered entirely in it? This is very strange because I feel as if its all in her material now. I apparently must be rather dense. Or maybe I'm supposed to explore this topic a bit more? Not quite sure at the moment. Do provide some guidance please.

I asked because, for one, I thought that if you have not read it, you would enjoy doing so. And, secondly, a lot of your questions would be answered by reading it.

I don't think you are dense, but exploring is always fun. :D

Since you are reading it, enjoy! :)

And, as Laura said, there is LOTS of information here, and in her Wave Series, along with other of her works.

 

[jdo]

The original sin. If the original sin was when Adam and Eve ate of the apple from the Tree of Knowledge one may question why it was deemed as a sin. Well because the tree of knowledge was forbidden of course.

This now brings the question, Why would God forbid his creation from the gaining of knowledge if in fact he created us with a brain? Is it not the purpose and function of the brain to learn and discern truth from lies? To grow in ways that virtually seem insurmountable but in fact after great effort of study we can accomplish a much greater society than the one we currently partake. What could possibly be the overarching point of it (the brain) if it was not? One ponders that maybe this original sin didn't occur as written. Eating the apple from that tree has caused all to suffer regardless of whether you were involved in the act or not? Or was this simply a symbolic metaphor of some kind? Was this whole story something of deeper value? Who knows? I certainly do not know but wish to see what others think. Please offer your insight if you wish. Collaboration is the key to unlock answers hidden behind locked doors.

FrankM...

Thank you for your post. This has given me the motivation to sort out my own thoughts on the subject. I realize that I am not adequately answering your question as asked, or even answering to my own satisfaction, but it is a beginning...


The notion of original sin is not found in the biblical text, or in Jewish traditions, but is a later development of Christian apologists. There is also no apple mentioned in the text. The apple became a symbol for the forbidden fruit in European art and literature.

The Biblical account of Adam and Eve is a myth. Myths reveal archetypes, which manifest throughout time.

In Gen 2:16, 17 God gave a command to Adam, (Eve had not yet been created, though she was aware of this command) “…Of every tree of the garden thou may freely eat; But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it; for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shall surely die”.

The sin of Adam and Eve was one of disobedience: God commanded; Adam and Eve disobeyed. As punishment Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. This Garden Paradise can be seen symbolically as the uroborus, that is, the psychic state prior to the birth of ego consciousness. “Individuation is a process in which the ego becomes increasingly aware of its origin from and dependence upon the archetypal psyche”.

From a Jungian perspective the eating of the fruit symbolizes the birth of consciousness; the dawning awareness of the opposites. Jung reads the Bible from the perspective of God himself growing in consciousness. Through the reading of the Old Testament in this way it is clearly evident that God increases in self-awareness through his interactions with mankind. God needs man to grow in consciousness.

If God is a being who is in need of integrating the opposites – just as man – the serpent can be viewed as an unconscious aspect of God which desires to become conscious of itself.

All growth in consciousness involves suffering to one degree or another. Where there is no conflict there is no consciousness.

 

[ana]

The notion of original sin is not found in the biblical text, or in Jewish traditions, but is a later development of Christian apologists. There is also no apple mentioned in the text. The apple became a symbol for the forbidden fruit in European art and literature.

The Biblical account of Adam and Eve is a myth. Myths reveal archetypes, which manifest throughout time.

In Gen 2:16, 17 God gave a command to Adam, (Eve had not yet been created, though she was aware of this command) “…Of every tree of the garden thou may freely eat; But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it; for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shall surely die”.

The sin of Adam and Eve was one of disobedience: God commanded; Adam and Eve disobeyed. As punishment Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. This Garden Paradise can be seen symbolically as the uroborus, that is, the psychic state prior to the birth of ego consciousness. “Individuation is a process in which the ego becomes increasingly aware of its origin from and dependence upon the archetypal psyche”.

From a Jungian perspective the eating of the fruit symbolizes the birth of consciousness; the dawning awareness of the opposites. Jung reads the Bible from the perspective of God himself growing in consciousness. Through the reading of the Old Testament in this way it is clearly evident that God increases in self-awareness through his interactions with mankind. God needs man to grow in consciousness.

If God is a being who is in need of integrating the opposites – just as man – the serpent can be viewed as an unconscious aspect of God which desires to become conscious of itself.

All growth in consciousness involves suffering to one degree or another. Where there is no conflict there is no consciousness.

I think you will find interesting these threads:

The Bible Unmasked
Old Testament Criticism Books


Also, have you read The wave Series?
They are a great source of knowledge and you'll find some interesting references about God :)