Thoughts welcomed on a complex case

[Konnor]

Hi there,

Hopefully it’s okay to post this lengthy first post regarding the poor state of my health.

Having read most of the threads I believe are applicable to me it would appear I am in good company, however I’m struggling to put together the pieces of the puzzle. As a result I suffer significantly daily, mainly from an ache over the liver/gallbladder and numerous other symptoms.

I’m essentially stuck in a candida/leaky gut/inflammation toxic liver loop that I’m struggling to escape. There is also I’m sure an element of adrenal exhaustion going on. Any attempt to make inroads on either the gut or the liver worsens this ache on my side and typical accompanying flare up symptoms are sluggish bowels and a horrible gnawing distended belly. This I believe is related to the liver/gallbladder, as when the ache is not as strong my stomach generally feels flatter.

Symptom wise the primary ones are

- Insomnia
- Chronic fatigue
- Gut inflammation
- Food sensitivities and poor digestion (constipation, gnawing bloating, undigested food in stools, sensitivities to nuts, eggs (and raw), yeast, nightshades, dairy and gluten, unable to digest beans and grains, fruits swing blood sugars, trigger cravings and worsen candida, struggle with fiber and potentially sulphur with the onion family and garlic)
- Hypoglycemia
- Post nasal drip
- Light sensitivity
- Brain fog
- Constipation
- Joint ache
- Liver/gallbladder ache

Those are the main ones with numerous other side problems. I don’t experience pain or shoulder ache to suggest gallbladder attacks, but instead feel a dull constant ache just under the rib cage on the right. Can’t be sure whether this is the gallbladder or liver under stress.

Diet wise as you can see it’s a minefield to negotiate. It’s forcibly very low carb and I suspect my handling of fats isn’t brilliant. It’s very wholesome and nutritious, organic and grassfed meat where possible (chicken, turkey, lamb, beef, venison, pork, salmon) with plenty of healthy fats (coconut, olive, lard, goose, duck and CLO).

I have experienced bouts of die off to suggest candida is an issue and assuming the liver doesn’t scream and my bowels are moving, I’ve been able to work through this. However, more often than not, introduction of a probiotic or antifungal will stress the liver and the ache will return. I have ‘tested’ certain supplements for periods over a week to see if it is a detox reaction that eventually dies down but I don’t get any relief from the liver.

In terms of the present day my ache is now constant. One of the changes I made about 2 weeks ago was the introduction of a 50 billion probiotic (custom probiotics) which I started at half a capsule and increased up to 1 capsule. As the days went on my bowel movements became less frequent and I started to get the constant liver ache, so I stopped the dose. It’s been over a week and things haven’t settled, even when using magnesium and vitamin C which previously helped move the bowels.

When I attempt liver aids, notably milk thistle I get a sensation that I am ‘stirring up toxins’ and probably due to my gut being in such a poor state, am unable to detoxify effectively. I’ve tried livatone plus and planetary herbals digestive bitters and beuplurum liver cleanse, the bitters rather oddly and counter intuitively made my stools hard and difficult to pass.

In terms of moving the bowels I thought I had it cracked with magnesium citrate, but since introducing probiotics and removing them, it has been ineffective. Highly frustrating as you can imagine as the key to getting anywhere with my health is to keep things moving. All the fibrous bowel movers such as psyllium and flaxseeds just clogged me up further (again, I have given each of these time to work, incase of an initial ‘worse before you get better’ type reaction which is common. The probiotics seemingly have done a number on me and I’m struggling to return to a baseline.

In terms of supplements I’m purposely not on much. Just HCL with meals and some ox bile 3 times a day – 500mg(I eat 5 smaller meals due to hypoglycaemia control). I’ve tried digestive enzymes in the past but was never rigorous about finding the correct brand and dosage and didn’t experience much benefit from them.

Phew!

I don’t suppose anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on my case? Particularly whether anyone has been able to negotiate the Candida/leaky gut liver toxic loop i.e. about to use probiotics, antifungals without over stressing the liver.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Hildegarda]

Hi Konnor,

It is customary for new members to introduce yourself in the "Newbies" section. A brief message about who you are, how you found the forum, and what is your primary interest here is sufficient.

As for your question, hopefully someone will chime in with specific recommendations. In a meantime, there are a couple of threads here in the Diet section that deal specifically with sluggish liver, candida and adrenal fatigue; you can find them using the search function. May be there will be some answers there for you.

Wishing you to find relief soon, and looking forward to your participation,

 

[theos]

Hi Konnor,

You mentioned being sensitive to dairy and gluten. Have you completely cut them out of your diet along with corn and soy? They are the primary culprits in the symptoms you named. Are you eating rice -- brown or white? Do a forum search on rice being found to contain gluten. Wild rice is okay.

Be gentle on yourself. It takes time for the body to detoxify and heal.

 

[Konnor]

Hi Odyssey,

I've been gluten free for over a year so far, and have gut out the grains due to them typically coming out as they went in!

Trying to keep calm however the gnawing distended stomach and liver ache usually sabotages the calmness! As you say hope it will fade naturally.

 

[Ellipse]

Hi Konnor,

Look like you have a big problem with your liver but, first, have you go through conventional exams: blood test, ultrasound scan, doctor diagnosis ?
Since how long do you have theses symptoms ?

 

[Drea]

Hello Konnor, thank you for the depth of your post. I really want to be able to give you hope and advise right now, but I am dealing with the same issues.

Really I just want to give you a hug, because I know it is rough and you are not alone.

By the way you may want to try a coffee enema if you are feeling too polluted.

It will help clean out the gall bladder a bit too, just make sure you water down the coffee or you will be like me pacing at 3 am from too much caffeine.

 

[Konnor]

Hi Ellipse,

I have gone the standard medical route about 3 months ago in which I had some normal liver enzyme bloodwork, an abdominal ultrasound and and an endoscopy, none really yielding much information. Although one enzyme was slightly raised, AST although the doctor didn't feel like this was a cause for concern. My understanding is that an 'orthadox' diagnosis would only come when a set of enzymes are raised with perhaps some additional diagnostics such as the presence of gallstones etc.

I've had all the symptoms around 1.5 years. Symptoms kind of 'phased in' starting with hypoglycemia and allot of gut trouble. The achy liver/gallbladder then started to become more prominant and has persisted since, typically tied into my bowel movement quality and frequency. I've tried to work hard in this area to no avail as improved digestion, a little less strain on the gut and regular bowel movements I feel will get me on the right path. This might then allow for some gentle liver cleansing/gallbladder dissolving with the reabsorbing type feeling and stirring of toxins I get at the moment.

Hi Drea,

I truely feel for you if you are also going through these symptoms. Do you also experience gut and liver trouble? It really does appear to be a minefield to negotiate and not helped by the fact when you are shrugged off by conventional doctors, there really aren't any reliable diagnostics available for analysing digestive and liver health.

I have done coffee enema's on occasion and think they do help. Might start doing them more regularly in a routine.

 

[Ellipse]

Ok, so you have follow the conventional path. This is important so we can eliminate very serious conditions. However their's something I do no understand in what you say. You say you had an abdominal ultrasound and you say too : "would only come when a set of enzymes are raised with perhaps some additional diagnostics such as the presence of gallstones". They do not check for gallstones during your abdominal ultrasound ?

Anyway for me, 1.5 year mean your condition appear relatively abruptly.

1/ Remember yourself, do you got a physical trauma 1.5, 2, 3 or some years ago ?
2/ Do you actually have back or cervical pain or do you sometime suffer of such ?

 

[truth seeker]

Hi Odyssey,

I've been gluten free for over a year so far, and have gut out the grains due to them typically coming out as they went in!

Trying to keep calm however the gnawing distended stomach and liver ache usually sabotages the calmness! As you say hope it will fade naturally.

Apologies if I've missed this, but did you say whether or not you've cut out dairy? Perhaps the easiest way to suss this out would be to ask if you're consuming sugar, corn and soy? Although you said that your diet is low carb, could you clarify what you mean by this? :)

 

[Laura]

Konnor, you need to find an integrative medicine specialist in your area and get professional medical advice. You can also visit the websites of Dr. Mark Hyman, Dr. Peter Osborne, and others, to find out how to hook up with such a doctor in your area. Complex cases need guidance from an attending physician. You can talk about it here, hear about other people's experiences, but that cannot replace competent, personal, medical supervision of your case.

 

[Drea]

Hi Ellipse,

I have gone the standard medical route about 3 months ago in which I had some normal liver enzyme bloodwork, an abdominal ultrasound and and an endoscopy, none really yielding much information. Although one enzyme was slightly raised, AST although the doctor didn't feel like this was a cause for concern. My understanding is that an 'orthadox' diagnosis would only come when a set of enzymes are raised with perhaps some additional diagnostics such as the presence of gallstones etc.

I've had all the symptoms around 1.5 years. Symptoms kind of 'phased in' starting with hypoglycemia and allot of gut trouble. The achy liver/gallbladder then started to become more prominant and has persisted since, typically tied into my bowel movement quality and frequency. I've tried to work hard in this area to no avail as improved digestion, a little less strain on the gut and regular bowel movements I feel will get me on the right path. This might then allow for some gentle liver cleansing/gallbladder dissolving with the reabsorbing type feeling and stirring of toxins I get at the moment.

Hi Drea,

I truely feel for you if you are also going through these symptoms. Do you also experience gut and liver trouble? It really does appear to be a minefield to negotiate and not helped by the fact when you are shrugged off by conventional doctors, there really aren't any reliable diagnostics available for analysing digestive and liver health.

I have done coffee enema's on occasion and think they do help. Might start doing them more regularly in a routine.

Konnor I have experienced gallbladder trouble or upper right quadrant pain in general. I also had an ultra sound done and it was negative. What I figured out for myself was that the continual use of my right (dominant) hand was causing stress on my shoulder extending to my lower ribcage. In fact it got so tight there that food was not moving out of my stomache. :O This was mostly stress related and over exerting my weak arms. There is still a lot of muscle tension going on with my whole body and I recently ordered magnesium citrate as magnesium sulfate seemed to making a slight difference on its own when put in a bath. I do hope you find a good doctor. My gastroenterologist would spend 5 minutes with me and I'd never leave without him ordering an unnecessary test!