Three years traveling through a mirror.

Alma.Innovadora

Dagobah Resident
Greetings guys

I have been looking to write this for a long time, but I didn't know how or it just wasn't the time. It is very long, excuse the verbiage is that god, it's been almost three years that I try to put here and still many things are left out, many. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this. I think it denotes my state of confusion compared to other times when I write to do my bit for another member. Maybe it should be in the swamp?

Two years ago I made a somewhat selfish wish to the universe. I asked to meet someone with whom I could work side by side, a girl, with whom I could get ahead in the projects I had planned, a friend and if there was something more or just sex without commitment, cool, but that there was honesty. That she at least had the same level of consciousness as me, so we could understand each other and learn.
Three days after making this wish I met "Maria" on Facebook. I opened a job offer because I needed someone to do a job for me. In our first job together the connection was "instant" but something that unsettled me and set off my alarms is that, when I shook her hand, I felt a blackout as if I fainted for 2 seconds. My eyesight went like a channel with no signal, I literally disconnected.

For some reason, since that day, I had a feeling that we would end up "bad" and we did. Or rather that it would be a very winding road and nothing "welcome teaching" I said to myself.

She comes from an abusive family and apparently her father was a criminal in my country. Her father was murdered when she was a child. I have seen letters from her consulting psychological help for that unresolved issue with her father, even commenting that she was "in love with her father". I haven't read much about these issues, but I do know something about what most know about these cases. And about how certain "feelings" are taken as normal and can lead to other unhealthy behaviors.

I was able to realize that as a result of that abuse, that she has become involved in relationships of manipulation and selfish interest. That only through sex she can get what she wants because she has not had an emotionally stable life either, always depending on others to climb the ladder.

She has a child for whom she is willing to do anything to achieve her goal, she was a mother at a young age, 16 years old I think and her ex-partner 10 years older, I think. Separated from that boy, years later without finding her stability. Through Facebook she met a Spanish gentleman (I'll call him Manolo) and this led her to become intimidatingly involved with a man of about 70 years old just for money. This gentleman is the type of elderly man, who collects women in every country he goes to, even underage women. Today I confirmed that the man is simply a pimp and Maria was part of that world and involved some friends, in order to maintain the stability that she dreamed of and that Manolo would provide her. I will continue later.

She presented herself as someone who was single. But a girl who doesn't work, who only does online courses and has her own house in a place that is not economical to maintain and no family... that's not something that grows like a flower. I immediately understood that there had to be someone supporting her and that was Manolo. Even with Manolo, within a week of meeting her, she already wanted to be intimate with me to which I refused for fear of damaging a possible friendship since I could see that we had enough potential to do a great job together and go very far. What will happen next, I wanted it to be built as we went along, getting to know each other first, being friends first. Besides, already sensing all the emotional trouble it could bring, it was best to take it one step at a time. But she took it badly and from that day on she always distrusted me even though I was the one who was always helping her and the help was supposed to be reciprocal and I never asked her for anything in return, nothing. It was not the kind of opportunistic relationship I wanted for both of us. "If you want help, just ask for it, no lies, no selfish interest" I was always clear with that. But for a person who has chosen lying as a path, it becomes impossible for him to believe that something like that could be offered to him, or that someone like that could exist.

She never maintained the boundaries of a friendship and I was not setting them in time. She was always sending intimate photos to my cell phone. I made the mistake of never saying no and letting myself be carried away by my base impulses believing that this also denoted "healthy trust". He would text me every day from the moment he woke up, giving me to understand an emotional dependency or manipulation or an unhealthy way of conducting an interaction. When I did not reciprocate when he needed my help, either because I did not have time or because it seemed to me that it was not help, but that I wanted him to do his homework, he began to get upset.

In the end everything was getting complicated, all his emotional problems and distrust were reflected in me. She didn't talk, she only applied the gaslighting because she thought I was applying it to her. In a moment of a fight for an absurd reason, she redirected to a couple fight, when we did not have a relationship at all. We broke contact for a year and during that year, she went to live with Manolo in Spain.

During that year, I had a strong feeling that she would come back with her tail between her legs. And so she did.

She came back exactly a year and 3 months later as I had predicted, but I did not want to talk to her. Manolo took her away deceived and began to show his true narcissistic, colopathic face with strong psychopathic traits. She does not live with him now, but she is still economically dependent on him, because she is working in Manolo's company. She doesn't get more work, still no stability. Now she treats him out of interest obviously. And in the meantime, she surely seeks to establish relationships with other men in the same way because I found out many things from her that in the end only confirmed that she had not really changed and that she possibly only sought me out because I was the one who helped her do her jobs. She is a slow learner, she has been studying for 6 years and still does not know how to do the things she studied and she is always making others believe that she is interested in them, even showing intimate closeness, insinuations so that they will agree to her needs. I am not saying this by supposition, she told me so herself, although not so directly. And it's not the first time that I've already discovered things without her knowing it. And maybe that was my weak point, again...getting attached to helping the girl in need. The hero syndrome and cupid's bite.

We established contact a year later, she apologized for everything. But before she showed up I had a dream where I was walking with her, but I couldn't hear her. This version of her denoted to me that she was something more conscious, a version of her more conscious "I", the one she repressed out of fear and whatnot. And at one point walking through a desolate town on a gray day, she points me to a demolished house, where only the foundations were left and among the rubble of a second floor, she was lost, not knowing what to do. From that moment on, I decided to take a leap of faith and believe in her, to give myself the opportunity to listen to her. Some time later I told her about the dream and she confessed that other people had had the same dream about her. And she recognized that she does not know how to listen to others, that she only sees for herself, that she is very selfish when nothing works her way and she was trying to work on it. I repeat, everything was nice, until she overstepped her boundaries again and again, I didn't say no within a few months.

Another year has passed, and everything has gone back to the same fights due to his lack of word and contradiction in his actions. I confront that lie, I think I should do it because is it wrong to ask for clarification on statements that over pass a friendship, coming from a person who has so many blind spots and whose ways of getting what he wants I already know?

Is it wrong to ask a person if they are truly sure of what they claim to feel for you when there is no basis on which to support such emotion, you already know part of their instabilities, that they really love you and it is not a simple attachment? Another time I stated that I am not looking to have a relationship beyond a friendship, but she misinterpreted that or was looking to hook me on that.

This time she was still in Spain and I was in my country, she talked to me about a future relationship, which never seemed coherent to me considering that she is an open relationship girl, she told me things as if to reassure me that she was not with anyone, something I never asked her to do, and that she was only interested in me. really? from Spain? I am not that kind of relationship and even less with statements that lack the necessary things like time, mutual will and a lot of effort to build it, especially after having treated each other the way we did and everything that reflected on me.

Today he reflects the same things from the past in me, by me confronting his lies. I have my faults, I am no better, but I was always clear that if I truly wanted a friendship and something beyond, we had to strive for that, aim for the same goal and control our impulses to something that would make us annoy each other, this is not just "I want to be with you" that should be a choice, not a passing feeling. It's not just adapting to what we don't like about each other, it's serving as a mirror for both of us to be better, first individually to be able to be together, to be able to be okay with ourselves, but also with others. He said yes, but they were just words.

In closing, as Alejo said to me in another thread, I think it is evident that unconsciously, even though I could be objective in many things, I wanted something that she is not ready to give. But through her, I have been learning more firmly what I want in a relationship, whether I really help without expecting something in return, whether I am really willing to confront my own lie as I confront others, regardless of their level of consciousness.

She always says:

"one changes every day, one is not the same always and so we can change our mind, it is not bad, we are human."

If we talk about mechanical attitudes... it is very objective... but when you get involved by means of lying for your ends it is already manipulation. But yes, it is part of the dynamics of this world. You have to establish limits. Or is it that you have a multiple personality problem and you don't know it? Better get help, that's not healthy dear, no matter how beautiful and philosophical it sounds in lyrics of poets and books you usually read or narcissists' phrases in memes and videos on Instagram.

"I remove from my life everything that makes me bad, my time is important, I do not waste time with a person who does not bring me peace".

Ok, when you are the one who also don't know how to offer a real friendship, a real relationship, real peace, honesty and reciprocal help because you have only gotten involved based on lies, is that for you to value the time of others, the help they give you, the time invested by those people in you... where is that which you yourself recognize in you? do I not also have the right to assert my own peace before your emotional instability and your incongruent actions? He burst out in annoyance and said that we would no longer have a future relationship, which seems to me to be obvious blackmail because I never told him I wanted that. I simply asked her to simply if she is going to be putting words I have not said in my mouth, or thinks I am for those steps, to stop sending me her intimate photos and focus on her role as a "friend" and not talk on that level anymore as if I am dying in love with her. You do your life over there and I do my life here. It's ridiculous to talk about a relationship when you don't even know what you want.

I can't blame her, I can't judge her either because if most of the interactions she has had have been that, I just have to accept it as part of her journey, but obviously I have to keep it from affecting me, it's not healthy for me. A person who is afraid to feel, not that she is afraid of relationships, as I have told you, she is afraid to get emotionally involved and because in the end she gets involved with possessive men, but she is not that easy to get along with either. Sometimes she just wants everyone to fit in with her, period. It only matters her way of looking at life and her own and if what you have to say, is not something she identifies with, even when it's her actions that affect me, she doesn't take it into account. I devalue what I have to say.
I never write her too much, because she is busy so I respect her time and we talk when she is available. She is the one who writes to me and even so, sometimes she wanted to complain to me that I wanted to get into her private life just to ask her "hello how was your day, what did you do good today?" because she thinks I want to know who she is with. And to complain about something like that, when he was sending me intimate pictures without asking for them, what's his game?

I've never taken advantage of a girl, in fact, I've had no friends, no girlfriend for a long time. I have the blessed way of the monk, I think that says it all. I think she herself has created that dynamic because it's the one that has worked for her in the way she's led her life.

She is so used to getting everything on an intimate level that she asked me to help her manage an account to sell adult content. My opinion was, "Ok that's fine, on one hand, it's an option because if you were 3 years with manolo for money and with others and at the end you have no money or anything, at least here you have the option of not getting involved with anyone for that. Nobody touches you and just as you send pictures to me, at least now you will get paid for doing it."

What does this mean, what mini learning cycle is this, what do you guys see that I don't?

Because ok, the easy answer is "he's taking advantage of you" and I've always thought besides that maybe he's just maybe fighting his own internal battle and trying to establish a healthy bond with me, but he doesn't know how to do it yet and I'm too confrontational that that just doesn't help because it would be like violating his free will and I'm not realizing that and it's all blowing up in our faces, especially mine.

It's been 4 hours since I wrote all this, we are almost again, a few steps away from breaking contact again. And I don't know, but I think the best thing would be that, at least for a while more because I don't feel good with all this thinking and life already sent me two signals yesterday. Those kind of signals that say "stop focusing on that person, let her go and flow, you are restricting the flow in your life and other things can't come in". I once asked her and I ask you what does she want from me, if it doesn't work, if she supposedly feels bad about me for standing up for what I know is a distortion of what I say and do from my true intentions and wanting to know the truth. why continue with me? I didn't look for her two years ago, she was the one who came back...why again the same blackmail when I already proved that she can come and go as much as she wants?

Give us some time away, another year, I don't know. Right now she only wants to work with me, but she never has money to pay either and I know that if I always say no, for her it will just be one more reason to say "well if you never can I won't work with you either, I'm not counting on you" ... she said it last year... it won't be any different now. Whatever I do to enforce my truth and my respect, it will be a gaslight.

I will be the culprit according to her. Because when I start expressing my annoyance, her recursion is to behave rationally when she never has, like the person who behaves serenely to someone annoying just to make them more annoyed.
But I'm not upset, just expressing what I didn't like about something that affected me for breaking her word. Additional trying to think for her because she never says the root of the matter, in short, wearing me down.

Sorry for the length, but it's two years I tried to get in here...there were still a lot of things left out. I no better than her, I have my flaws too, but my god... when instinct screams... it's impossible to shut it up and I only have those two options:

1. She is a liar and that's the way she likes to be to get what she wants regardless of her traumas, that's the way she decided to be and that's it.

2. She is really trying to change and needs help, but my "indirect help" has already done what it was supposed to do and I must withdraw from this fight as soon as possible or I may hurt her more and hurt myself. And again if she is to come back, she will come back.

I still have a nagging feeling that there will be a third season... I don't know why I feel like I know her, there are many things that terrify me because they fit with what I've read in the book about cupid's bite. The clothes she wears, the type of girls I've always gone wrong with... there's something I don't quite connect with, but no doubt... there's something about it because 2 years before I met her I had a dream of the place where she lived... but I didn't know her yet. There are weird connections that I can't ignore. I don't know if it's because I'm stubborn and want to see something it's not.

But how is it possible that everything happened then as exactly as I knew it would?
But also if there is something I have learned, it is to accept that, the life of someone else, of a woman. To accept her as she is. I wanted to get to know her and that's what I got.... that's the way it is. And regardless of what I went through, I don't hold grudges, I love her for who she is, together or not, at whatever level we are. But I wouldn't want her to end up prostituting herself to get what she wants. She has too much potential to get what she wants without taking that path, I want to be there, but I can't.

On some level I have a wishful thinking, at the end of the day... it was my wish, eh? :pinocchio:
 
I have been looking to write this for a long time, but I didn't know how or it just wasn't the time. It is very long, excuse the verbiage is that god, it's been almost three years that I try to put here and still many things are left out, many. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this. I think it denotes my state of confusion compared to other times when I write to do my bit for another member. Maybe it should be in the swamp?
Don't deny your gut feelings. Have faith the 4dsts will always send you signals of wishful thinking for your very own self-destruction.

Dangerous women are what they are.

"Oh, what a tangled web we men weave" when it comes to women and “getting physical.” There is something elusively appealing about women who fly in the face of Freud’s dictum that anatomy is destiny, women who successfully balance the gender coin.
Just my 2 cents FWIW.
 
Don't deny your gut feelings. Have faith the 4dsts will always send you signals of wishful thinking for your very own self-destruction.

Dangerous women are what they are.

Yes. As Jordan Peterson says, "Speak the truth and see what happens."


"Oh, what a tangled web we men weave" when it comes to women and “getting physical.”

"What is new is a woman putting herself in jeopardy for the adrenalin rush. We now have a generation of armed female characters who put themselves in perpetual danger for a noble cause or to make a living by living on the edge."

This part is related to the things I discovered and she says about herself. Thank you.
 
I've never taken advantage of a girl, in fact, I've had no friends, no girlfriend for a long time. I have the blessed way of the monk, I think that says it all. I think she herself has created that dynamic because it's the one that has worked for her in the way she's led her life.
And I think it's the best for you if you'll keep walking that blessed way of the monk. ;-)

I can't blame her, I can't judge her either because if most of the interactions she has had have been that, I just have to accept it as part of her journey, but obviously I have to keep it from affecting me, it's not healthy for me.
There you go, you gave youreself the best answer. That kind of behaviuor is not healthy.
Manipulating, using others, crossing their boundaries,.... you don't need that.
You would be only losing your time. And you have work to do.
And by that work you will eventualy find someone who is colinear. If it's destined.
Keep the faith and path clear :flowers:

But how is it possible that everything happened then as exactly as I knew it would?
Cause it's supposed to be that way. You had guts feeling that you didn't trust and now you have a good lesson.
Just imagine how creative control system could be on you. You started to pay attention, observe, to connect,
to know theoreticaly how things work, you became dangerous by applying it, doing the work. Becoming..

So now, you should get some distraction in a form of beautiful lady in trouble just to keep you busy. Going in circles.
To prevent you doing what you know you should.
You almost swalowed a hook with a bait. But knowledge protects. :cool:
That's even better than universe fulfiling your wish to give you a partner. You got slapped by it.
Back to school.
Dear Alma Innovadora, I'm sorry, I'm not making fun out of you.
I know exactly how you feel because I had similar doubts of one 'special' person too.
And it also felt like being slapped just in time. So... :hug2:

It's been 4 hours since I wrote all this, we are almost again, a few steps away from breaking contact again. And I don't know, but I think the best thing would be that, at least for a while more because I don't feel good with all this thinking and life already sent me two signals yesterday. Those kind of signals that say "stop focusing on that person, let her go and flow, you are restricting the flow in your life and other things can't come in". I once asked her and I ask you what does she want from me, if it doesn't work, if she supposedly feels bad about me for standing up for what I know is a distortion of what I say and do from my true intentions and wanting to know the truth. why continue with me? I didn't look for her two years ago, she was the one who came back...why again the same blackmail when I already proved that she can come and go as much as she wants?
I feel you. But it's better for you to end it for good.
'So better things could come in'
Good luck and much love to you !
 
You had guts feeling that you didn't trust and now you have a good lesson.
Just imagine how creative control system could be on you. You started to pay attention, observe, to connect,
to know theoreticaly how things work, you became dangerous by applying it, doing the work. Becoming..

Very accurate your words, certainly that was my choice and I submitted to the lesson. "Whatever happens, I take on the challenge."

So now, you should get some distraction in a form of beautiful lady in trouble just to keep you busy.

Yes, that's right, because there was supposedly "financial aid" involved. Working together, so sex+monetary need, was a good hook.

I feel you. But it's better for you to end it for good.
'So better things could come in'
Good luck and much love to you !

Yes, in fact, every time I am finishing it, people come to offer me a job opportunity. They clear the way, it's happened twice already. I am already focusing my energies in the wrong way, putting hope and faith in a dependency, not in something healthy.

Thank you for your words. 🙏 and Hey humor is fine! I'm making fun of myself at the moment 🤣 It is also necessary to laugh at these cases.
 
But I wouldn't want her to end up prostituting herself to get what she wants. She has too much potential to get what she wants without taking that path, I want to be there, but I can't.
You know what you have to do: let her go; but your savior complex or whatever this is is making a narrative to make you want the relationship.

That is a struggle, a friction, that's part of the Work.

You do the hard choice, progress will follow.


That's my opinion but I'm just a long time single man...
 
this is is making a narrative to make you want the relationship.

Very good point, thanks. It is ironic that I know all her ways, her lies and I excuse myself under the objectivity "she is like that and I must respect her life"... I respect her free will while I corrupt mine by idealizing this story, because like you, I also have many single years. In this interaction, nothing is concrete, everything is half-hearted, although I have set my limits with that, no doubt, wanting to stay is to continue in the same vicious circle.
 
What does this mean, what mini learning cycle is this, what do you guys see that I don't?

Not much, other than you got involved with a manipulative woman.

Because ok, the easy answer is "he's taking advantage of you" and I've always thought besides that maybe he's just maybe fighting his own internal battle and trying to establish a healthy bond with me, but he doesn't know how to do it yet and I'm too confrontational that that just doesn't help because it would be like violating his free will and I'm not realizing that and it's all blowing up in our faces, especially mine.

Wishful thinking, lots of it. She's not relationship material. End of story.

But how is it possible that everything happened then as exactly as I knew it would?

Because it was pretty obvious from the start, but you carried on with the wishful thinking. It's like asking the question: "I knew if I jumped off that cliff I would break my legs, so I jumped off and broke my legs. How is it possible that everything happened as exactly I knew it would"?
 
ecause it was pretty obvious from the start, but you carried on with the wishful thinking. It's like asking the question: "I knew if I jumped off that cliff I would break my legs, so I jumped off and broke my legs. How is it possible that everything happened as exactly I knew it would"?

Thank you very much Joe, short and to the point 🤣

It was very obvious, yes. I just had theories and faith in the process, I needed to know myself within the experience to know myself even more and the attacks. And just now I can notice the change in your strategy.

Days before I spoke to her, I sent in my application for FOTCM membership. I put off that choice again because of that distraction. I think I should listen to that other cry of my instinct.

Abandon the natural progress of my course for one more minute of "material paradise".
 
Greetings,

I have already made the difficult decision, it was hard for me because I was financially dependent on this person too and I have discovered that I have simply been codependent with this person in many other ways and I have been selfish in harboring a false hope that was disguised as compassion in understanding the internal problem in another leaving aside my own problem.

This girl is narcissistic and there is nothing I should do there, the main damage and lesson was to resolve it in me.

I had not become aware of how codependent I have been for some time. My anger, my impulses, my resentment, the way I helped or refused to do certain things, fluctuated between the right thing to do and a bad way to apply them that demeaned a deeper attention to actually be a better person and not destroy everything.

But that's ok, I learned that the more you hold on in unconscious ways and don't make the decision that screams from within, life will do it for you to realize and take the responsibility it deserves. The nature of things will show themselves as they are for your greater good, even if you don't understand it at the time, even if you deny it, even if you turn a blind eye.

Interesting journey to learn more about my blind spots, I am grateful indeed. How incredible to want something that does not exist, not because the person does not exist per se, but because of what one is capable of giving existence to an illusion wanting to go against the existential nature itself.

Here I leave this complementary reading:

The Give and Take Between Narcissistic and Codependent Personalities​


Thanks to all! 🙏
 

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