To recognise me.

[Gawan]

Hello!


How do I start…

Well I'm currently in a new situation, I started to study again on a college and it is my second run, to begin something and hopefully to get a degree in it.

But currently a lot of programs are running, with them I'm simply overwhelmed with. The first one is: not-to-be-recognised by others, for example: one person does not greet me (where I get kind of upset: "what a selfish person"), or when I sit alone in a row of a lecture room, and no-one is sitting next-to me: "nobody-likes me, what may think the others of me? I'm a stranger!"… I take anything too personal, or I identify with all these things happening around me. Which in the end has nothing at all to do with me, sometimes (in my past) it got so far, that I have shut down the connections, I crawled back in my shell (like a snail) until it happened that the people got really against me.

One time it happened where these same thoughts came up, and I tried to focus on them, or write them down in a journal. One person I knew a little came in the classroom and sat next to me, and a feeling occurred: everything is fine, no worries and I could calm down, I felt kind of safe again.

So far as I could observe myself a little bit more (I kept a journal), in the case of daydreaming, I recognised even more that all these thoughts/dreams running in the same direction (not to be alone?): to get recognised by others, to lecture them, to tell them something about the world, about the signs-of-the-times (psychopathy etc.).

The second-program set, is kind of lacking self-esteem, where I'm afraid to pass an exam, or a lecture, where I'm running in circles: I can do it! and the next day: I don't get it! Where I get frustrated and anxious about my future.

Right in this moment, it's relatively "easy" to write about it (with which I mean no judgement, or to make it clear that I already know an answer, it's simply how paradox my being is: to think critical and also logical in this moment and in another time barely to count one + one together) and if there is no problem at all .

It has been a great help to read the thread about the-negative-introject, and for example the aspect of shyness is selfishness, or to let other people feel, what I don't want to and to identify with the negative introject (to blame other people who are not like me…). About the shyness, I remembered one sentence of a good friend of mine, where she told me: "At the beginning I thought you are selfish", which hit really the nail on the head.

Okay, has someone an idea where I could find some ideas about "how to get recognised", where to look in, or what "my" thoughts are about?

Thx, Joerg.

 

[durabone]

Hi Joerg:

I think I might know that feeling of "a lot of programs are running"

Does it feel like holding onto a rock in the middle of a river with white water rushing past you?

 

[Beau]

But currently a lot of programs are running, with them I'm simply overwhelmed with. The first one is: not-to-be-recognised by others, for example: one person does not greet me (where I get kind of upset: "what a selfish person"), or when I sit alone in a row of a lecture room, and no-one is sitting next-to me: "nobody-likes me, what may think the others of me? I'm a stranger!"… I take anything too personal, or I identify with all these things happening around me. Which in the end has nothing at all to do with me, sometimes (in my past) it got so far, that I have shut down the connections, I crawled back in my shell (like a snail) until it happened that the people got really against me.

<snip>

Okay, has someone an idea where I could find some ideas about "how to get recognised", where to look in, or what "my" thoughts are about?

I don't think you need to concern yourself with being recognized, that will come with time and the right approach to others. One of the things that has helped me is to try and think about how you would view someone else in your situation. Basically, if you saw someone sitting with no one around them, what would you think? Would you think, nobody likes that person? I would think most people would answer no. You might think that that person wants to sit alone and maybe I shouldn't bother them. Or maybe that person wants to sit where their are open seats because one or more of his/her friends are coming to sit next to them. Or you might think nothing at all because it's of no concern to you where anyone is sitting.

These are all common scenarios, while the description of your inner state in the same situation is narcissistic and self-centered. That is not said to be mean, either, but it is what it is. I have had the same thoughts myself, and when I stop to consider those thoughts from another perspective, I have had a range of emotions from anger to hilarity at the sheer ridiculousness of our machine. Those programs really just drain your energy by making you act mechanically and essentially consider only yourself.

So what you should be thinking about is not how to stop these programs completely, that's not really practical in the short term, but rather, how to distance yourself from them and keep your emotions detached from the intellectual center going off and usurping the energy of the other centers. In short, keeping it "below the neck." Not an easy task, believe me. But one to strive for when we find the horse trying to gain control of the carriage.

 

[fabric]

[portions trimmed]

The second-program set, is kind of lacking self-esteem, where I'm afraid to pass an exam, or a lecture, where I'm running in circles: I can do it! and the next day: I don't get it! Where I get frustrated and anxious about my future.

Right in this moment, it's relatively "easy" to write about it (with which I mean no judgement, or to make it clear that I already know an answer, it's simply how paradox my being is: to think critical and also logical in this moment and in another time barely to count one + one together) and if there is no problem at all .

Okay, has someone an idea where I could find some ideas about "how to get recognised", where to look in, or what "my" thoughts are about?

Thx, Joerg.

I go through the same thought patterns, although not so often nowadays. The fact that you are able to observe these conflicting states is a big step forward in being able to see yourself and the machine (or predator as Castaneda puts it). Although you may not be able to do much at first, it will become easier with practice. It's tough to not let yourself get caught up with all these negative emotions and self-considering, but part of the battle is facing this and not letting it control you.

Looking for recognition is the predator looking for some way to feed, I think... perhaps that is why you put "my thoughts" in quotations? Or maybe it is too much self-importance. Have you read Castaneda on self importance? Here is the part that sticks most in my mind:

Excerpt from "Journey to Ixtlan"

_http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan3.html

If you really want to learn, you have to remodel most of your behavior. You take yourself too seriously. You are too damn important in your own mind. That must be changed! You are so goddamn important that you feel justified to be annoyed with everything. You're so damn important that you can afford to leave if things don't go your way. I suppose you think that shows you have character. That's nonsense! You're weak, and conceited! In the course of your life you have not ever finished anything because of that sense of disproportionate importance that you attach to yourself.

Self-importance is another thing that must be dropped, just like personal history. The world around us is very mysterious. It doesn't yield its secrets easily. Now we are concerned with losing self-importance. As long as you feel that you are the most important thing in the world you cannot really appreciate the world around you. You are like a horse with blinders, all you see is yourself apart from everything else.

To help you lose self-importance talk to little plants. It doesn't matter what you say to a plant, what's important is the feeling of liking it, and treating it as an equal.

A man who gathers plants must apologize every time for taking them and must assure them that someday his own body will serve as food for them. So, all in all, the plants and ourselves are even. Neither we nor they are more or less important. From now on talk to the little plants, talk until you lose all sense of importance. Talk to them until you can do it in front of others. You must talk to them in a loud and clear voice if you want them to answer you.

The world around us is a mystery, and men are no better than anything else. If a little plant is generous with us we must thank her, or perhaps she will not let us go.

You have to be aware of the uselessness of your self-importance and of your personal history.

Your death can give you a little warning, it always comes as a chill. Death is our eternal companion, it is always to our left, at an arm's length.

How can anyone feel so important when we know that death is stalking us. The thing to do when you're impatient is to turn to your left and ask advice from your death. An immense amount of pettiness is dropped if your death makes a gesture to you, or if you catch a glimpse of it, or if you just have the feeling that your companion is there watching you.

The issue of our death is never pressed far enough. Death is the only wise adviser that we have. Whenever you feel, as you always do, that everything is going wrong and you're about to be annihilated, turn to your death and ask if that is so. Your death will tell you that you're wrong; that nothing really matters outside its touch. Your death will tell you, "I haven't touched you yet."

One of us here has to change, and fast. One of us here has to learn again that death is the hunter, and that it is always to one's left. One of us here has to ask deaths advice and drop the cursed pettiness that belongs to men that live their lives as if death will never tap them.

Think of your death now. It is at arm's length. It may tap you any moment, so really you have no time for crappy thoughts and moods. None of us have time for that. The only thing that counts is action, acting instead of talking.

Another thing that helps me is to laugh. Especially at myself and how silly we can be, and at how cunning our mind, which is also not our mind, is at tricking us into believing that we are something we are not.

 

[webglider]

The second-program set, is kind of lacking self-esteem, where I'm afraid to pass an exam, or a lecture, where I'm running in circles: I can do it! and the next day: I don't get it! Where I get frustrated and anxious about my future.

It seems as though there are a few things going on here. One issue seems to be that you seem to surrender your sense of self to external evaluations such as doing well on tests, or understanding lectures. If so, it is no wonder that you are running around in circles: one day you understand the material and you feel great; the next you understand nothing and you feel like nothing. You may try to imagine the freedom that separating your self esteem from these external markers may bring. Imagine failing a test and saying to yourself, "Okay I failed a test. I'm not the test. I can work harder next time." and letting it go.

When you say that you are anxious about your future, perhaps you may try a way of thinking which Pepperfritz suggested to me several threads ago. She suggested that rather than automatically give in to a vision of a catastrophic future, think of how you would cope with a reversal if things did not go the way you wanted them to.
You must have overcome setbacks in the past, and perhaps you can draw upon those as examples of how you might over come similar situations in the future.

to think critical and also logical in this moment and in another time barely to count one + one together) and if there is no problem at all .

I'm working on this issue myself so I think I understand what you're going through. It's really baffling, isn't it? It's like being two different people inside the same body. I suspect it has something to do with strengthening the real "I", anchoring it so that none of the little "i's" can dislodge it. I see it like waves beating against a rock: the waves froth and crash against it, but the rock remains firmly in place.

 

[vinny]

These are all common scenarios, while the description of your inner state in the same situation is narcissistic and self-centered. That is not said to be mean, either, but it is what it is. I have had the same thoughts myself, and when I stop to consider those thoughts from another perspective, I have had a range of emotions from anger to hilarity at the sheer ridiculousness of our machine. Those programs really just drain your energy by making you act mechanically and essentially consider only yourself.

So what you should be thinking about is not how to stop these programs completely, that's not really practical in the short term, but rather, how to distance yourself from them and keep your emotions detached from the intellectual center going off and usurping the energy of the other centers. In short, keeping it "below the neck." Not an easy task, believe me. But one to strive for when we find the horse trying to gain control of the carriage.

I think Pinkerton is spot on.

maybe this is useful, it is talking specifically about OCD, but is useful to apply to all our mechanical thought patterns:
http://www.hope4ocd.com/foursteps.php

 

[Mountain Crown]

This link is excellent Nomad, thanks.

 

[Gawan]

Re: Thank You!

Really thank you guys!

Hi Joerg:

I think I might know that feeling of "a lot of programs are running"

Does it feel like holding onto a rock in the middle of a river with white water rushing past you?

Your description is I think the best way to describe it. On the other hand, I'm myself not sure if it is only one program or many, when I take the example: "that I'm alone sitting in a row" and thoughts are coming up.

But when I have a look in some notes, it is getting from bad to worst, and at some point also a "choice" of being overwhelmed is occurring, that means: to fight or to flight. To keep on going against it, or to step into a breakdown: to cry for example and to run away (which in the end is maybe also a result of self-pity, because people would them wonder: "what's wrong with him?").

At this moment, I often try to keep on doing something, what maybe feels real. So I take a notebook and start writing thoughts down, which occurring to my mind. Or I talked to myself: "stop whining around, do something, come on" and I got new strength to read for example. And at this moment the negative/depressive thoughts have been vanished. Also it helped to make fun of myself, like mentioned by "the Gunslinger": "waving fists against me" ;)

I hope this explanation helped a little bit.

Looking for recognition is the predator looking for some way to feed, I think... perhaps that is why you put "my thoughts" in quotations? Or maybe it is too much self-importance. Have you read Castaneda on self importance? Here is the part that sticks most in my mind:

Excerpt from "Journey to Ixtlan"

[…]

Thanks, no I didn't know this one. But I remembered a story from: "The active side of infinity", where Don Juan is talking about a woman who is dancing in front of a mirror and that everyone is doing so.

<snip>
When you say that you are anxious about your future, perhaps you may try a way of thinking which Pepperfritz suggested to me several threads ago. She suggested that rather than automatically give in to a vision of a catastrophic future, think of how you would cope with a reversal if things did not go the way you wanted them to.
You must have overcome setbacks in the past, and perhaps you can draw upon those as examples of how you might over come similar situations in the future.

Here you got me! Because I asked in another thread about the link for this thread, where Pepperfritz is stating this.
But well, I can't remember why I haven't read it till now!

I think Pinkerton is spot on.

maybe this is useful, it is talking specifically about OCD, but is useful to apply to all our mechanical thought patterns:
http://www.hope4ocd.com/foursteps.php

He/she is! And your link is indeed a very good tool, I, or anybody else only needs to change the words ("OCD" in "Predators mind" for example).

Thanks again.

 

[durabone]

I hope this explanation helped a little bit.

Great Joerg, yes. Your experience seems typical to me.
I say typical, because words like 'normal' can be loaded.

And if it means the same as it did for me, you can expect
better and even more interesting things coming up soon!

One thing that might help is to try and investigate the common
term "self-conscious." If you can sometimes let go of the rock
and simply tumble down the river in a relaxed state, you might
find yourself able to see a little better into the lives of others.

Best...

db

 

[Gawan]

Great Joerg, yes.[…]

[…]you might
find yourself able to see a little better into the lives of others.

Best...

db

Alright. ;) With the last thing I can already nod my head, sometimes it is happening, for example to see the self-pity program in others. Such as, somebody is complaining/not sure about something: "Well, I'm not sure how the lecture will go, if I'm doing fine." Where I'm sure that the person will doing fine, and that it is only a kind of statement of pity me.

But one question arises, how can I react on it? Is it to give the person the answer, the person is (unconsciously) expecting: "you are good in it, you are doing fine"!? Or just simply to let the answer be open: "Maybe."?! When it depends at all, in what I'm saying.

 

[durabone]

But one question arises, how can I react on it?

My guess (and I am a beginner in so many ways): There are
lots of choices people make about reactions, some kind, some
feeding, literally tons of choices.

The guide some folks find so helpful is to look inside themselves
and to try and ascertain their true motives before acting. If the
motive is caring, sharing, loving, etc. Then at least 90% of the
matter is settled, and as a very positive note I add that Creation
allows a buzzillion ways to express care. Also, knowing and being
true to your motives can be one fine way to take care of yourself.

Caring, and reaching someone for real can be as simple as eye
contact (body language can speak loud and true). Often, just not
walking away but staying tuned in is a solid message. There is an
interesting pursuit in trying to be responsible for your effect on
others, trying to make darn sure you took nothing unintentionally.
And it can be very not as easy as it sounds.

When you look back over your past, how do you feel when you think
of someone that you barely knew who acted kindly to you?

Others here can probably speak better about these things. My
experience communicating through an on-line forum is novice level
at best.

db

 

[gwb1995]

Hello abcdefghiJoerg,

Alright. ;) With the last thing I can already nod my head, sometimes it is happening, for example to see the self-pity program in others. Such as, somebody is complaining/not sure about something: "Well, I'm not sure how the lecture will go, if I'm doing fine." Where I'm sure that the person will doing fine, and that it is only a kind of statement of pity me.

But one question arises, how can I react on it? Is it to give the person the answer, the person is (unconsciously) expecting: "you are good in it, you are doing fine"!? Or just simply to let the answer be open: "Maybe."?! When it depends at all, in what I'm saying.

This is a difficult subject to deal with (IMHO) as it depends on where you are at that moment in your level of knowledge. There are many things that impact how one responds when dealing with such situations. I always try to remember where I am and what programs may be coming forward at that moment. I try to ask myself, 'Am I reacting based on a program, or am I being objective in my thoughts'? It takes a lot of work on the self to identify all the programs running in one's 'self'. Knowledge of these programs does not mean that they have been mastered, or shut down at all. It is only a starting point, (IMO) and identifying them is first priority for all of us.

I try to always ask myself; am I able to answer the question objectively, or am I only responding to the question, based on my own programs? When I am not sure that I am able to do these things, I have started to learn to just not respond or deflect answering at all. It all comes down to external consideration, and for myself, I am only now starting to understand this subject.

In other words, try to remember where you are in this process first, before trying to help someone else. I am a long way from being able to 'teach' or 'help' anyone else at this point. I have finally learned that I can only work on myself for now, and that I can not do anything at this point to help others. I think you are in the same situation and this is why I am sharing this with you.

learning is fun, ;D

gwb1995

 

[Pierre]

At this moment, I often try to keep on doing something, what maybe feels real. So I take a notebook and start writing thoughts down, which occurring to my mind. Or I talked to myself: "stop whining around, do something, come on" and I got new strength to read for example. And at this moment the negative/depressive thoughts have been vanished.

Hi abcdefghiJoerg,

It sounds like a good strategy. Another good point is that everyday you have classes so everyday this program will occur so you can learn daily about it. And there are two features of this program you might be interested in.

First its trigger mechanism. Day after day you might want to try to observe the program earlier and earlier, to finally see how it ignites, when it ignites, what are its first manifestations (physiological, emotional, intellectual...)

Second its childhood roots. Imagine a child who get punished by his parents. The usual punishment chosen by the parents is isolation : "go to your room and stay there !", "we'll go to cinema without you", "since you've been bad you won't be allowed to meet your friend"...

Such a child will strongly link isolation with negative emotions (sadness, guilt, ...) and as an adult as soon as he perceives himself isolated the very same negative emotions will surface againbut he won't know why since he is not aware of this mechanism.

 

[Gawan]

Hi abcdefghiJoerg,

It sounds like a good strategy. Another good point is that everyday you have classes so everyday this program will occur so you can learn daily about it. And there are two features of this program you might be interested in.

First its trigger mechanism. Day after day you might want to try to observe the program earlier and earlier, to finally see how it ignites, when it ignites, what are its first manifestations (physiological, emotional, intellectual...)

I can only agree with your statement, thanks.
A similar thing I told myself, to sit consciously alone, to seperate myself, and keep on watching what is occuring, so to speak to force -this- program showing up.

Second its childhood roots. Imagine a child who get punished by his parents. The usual punishment chosen by the parents is isolation : "go to your room and stay there !", "we'll go to cinema without you", "since you've been bad you won't be allowed to meet your friend"...

Such a child will strongly link isolation with negative emotions (sadness, guilt, ...) and as an adult as soon as he perceives himself isolated the very same negative emotions will surface againbut he won't know why since he is not aware of this mechanism.

I'm not sure what it is, I try since some months to find it out (on what circuit I'm running), for example I re-read the wave chapter Chapter XXXIX, because it is dealing with circuits/programs. And currently I work on a lecture of the first three phases/circuits (oral, anal… of the Psychosexual Development à la S. Freud). It's maybe not only one circuit, they seem to be interconnected, one circuit is stronger negative formed, one another less, another positive…

But why I'm looking for it?
Because I like to understand why I "draw", or better see the world in black and white, for example: Laura is all-right (for example), and everyone else isn't.

Anyway…
I had some time ago a memory of my childhood (which sounds very similar to your example): my parents wanted to go out and leave me alone in our house and at this time I made such a terror (crying, trembling), but I can't remember if they are gone or not.

Maybe that's not important if they are gone, because the situation: to be afraid of being alone (at this given moment) is maybe a link.

 

[Pierre]

Maybe that's not important if they are gone, because the situation: to be afraid of being alone (at this given moment) is maybe a link.

I agree. It doesn't matter if they are gone or not. The child thinking can be rational or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is what he is experiencing, what he is feeling.

In one of the psychology books there is this example of a little child that gets hospitalized. He suddenly wakes up in a hospital room. It's dark, it's not his bed, mummy and daddy are not here. The child starts to be overwhelmed by a total terror, he thinks that he got abandoned, that he's now living in a kind of dark hell, that he will never see his parents again...

Even if the parents are just behind the door, even if they will switch on the light one second later, what the child experienced is very real and it's likely that later, as an adult, he might suffer various fears relating to darkness, being alone, hospitals...