ICE agent fatally shoots protester in Minneapolis: Self-defense or police brutality?

Irony strikes: Minnesota law signed by Walz in 2020 now defends ICE agent who shot Renee Good
  • Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz signed a 2020 law (Minnesota Statutes §609.066) allowing police to use deadly force against vehicles perceived as imminent threats – even before physical impact – now under scrutiny after ICE agents fatally shot Renee Good during a traffic stop.
  • Walz, who positioned himself as a police reformer during the 2020 BLM riots, faces criticism for expanding police power with this law – contrasting his earlier calls to restrict law enforcement authority.
  • The 2020 BLM riots in Minnesota – falsely portrayed as peaceful – were violent, politically orchestrated events enabled by authorities, revealing a double standard to destabilize society and advance globalist agendas.
  • Supporters argue the law prevents officer hesitation in life-threatening scenarios, while critics call it a loophole for excessive force, highlighting the blurred line between "perceived" and "actual" danger.
  • The law, passed amid national demands for police reform, now defines Walz's tenure – raising questions about legislative intent, accountability and whether the incident will prompt reevaluation of use-of-force standards.

It is a tragedy that Renee Good lost her life in a misguided confrontation with ICE agents. Even more tragic, the incident will be the catalyst for even more confrontation with likely injuries and deaths on both sides.

As to ICE using tactics that blur the lines of legality, this clip at the link for the above article speaks to that issue - a Fox News interview with attorney and legal scholar Jonathan Turley (begin @2:16).

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So, yeah - rectifying the illegal immigrant situation is a major problem particularly as very bad elements are at work to explode it into a crisis way beyond the George Floyd mostly peaceful rioting, looting, and burning protests (and civil war for good measure). Good article calling out the left wing protest industrial complex here. We simply cannot ignore that aspect of the problem regardless of ICE abuses. Is there a way forward that thwarts the Left/Globalist agenda without falling into the totalitarian trap - which one can surmise is the real agenda goal of all this turmoil and chaos.
 
I don't think there is a need for a complicated conspiracy. The US regime is by billionaires for billionaires. What the peasants believe or are led to believe at some election cycle or another doesn't matter. If the billionaires need foreign peasants because local peasants are debt slaves with useless diplomas who cannot work, they will import peasants from elsewhere. They need workers, they need taxes, they need consumers, they need "diasporas" to sell wars, and they get what they want. Police brutality for "optics" is twofold: "look, we're doing something", and "someday this will be you if you don't grovel enough". People often forget the ever evolving patriot act and corollaries.

Well, if part of it is for "optics" as you say, then it does matter to some extent what the "peasants" believe - also remember that according to the Cs Trump was elected at the time against the will of the PTB because of overwhelming Free Will, so again, this means public perception has to be managed. Personally, I don't think there is a conspiracy by Trump etc. to create "bad optics" in order to discourage remigration, but rather it's a consequence of the forces at play here: people justifiably want the migrants out (for economic, cultural and ethnic reasons), but it's unrealistic to turn back the clock, while (as you say) the billionaire class/PTB also don't want it for various reasons (control, divide and conquer, cheap labour, voting blocks etc.). Whether the Trump admin is serious about their promise of remigration or not, in this situation they have no choice but to create the impression they're acting tough, which, while it may play to the base, also alienates more moderate people, and as such makes remigration even less likely than it already is.
 
While it is justified and understandable that Trump (and/or many people that think similar) would want to change a current situation rather radically “back“, namely, get the already immigrated people (legal or not) deported as fast as possible, it almost always seems to be a bad idea to do things too radically and overturn everything.

People that think like that could perhaps benefit from studying how Putin has done “the impossible“: Instead of making radical and short sighted decisions he tried to work WITH (not AGAINST) the situation AS IT IS and trying to not agitate many factions too much via fast, radical and black and white decisions. One of the successful tactics he used is to give people that had done things wrong chance after chance to do better, and instead of putting everyone that did something wrong “to the death squat“, after he got into power, he basically said to most wrong and/or nefarious people:

what is in the past is in the past and what you did in the past is in the past, from now on only things count and will be sanctioned that happen from now on.

So I think it would be much wiser and probably a lot more beneficial in the long run if countries like the US and Germany handle the mess that has been created via immigration with approaches like the above mentioned. For example, yes, closing borders for illegals in the future, then try to first work WITH the people you already have in the country SERIOUSLY. In short, create good conditions to give people that are already there (perhaps even including most illegals) the chance to proof that they can be/become productive/decent parts of society.

Only after you have given such people such REAL chances based on GOOD AND FAIR opportunities at least once or a couple of times, you can discuss deporting them and/or similar measures.
 
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I think there are two issues coming to ahead there: Two possibly character disturbed lefties who went out of their way to provoke other kinds of possibly character disturbed righties who also did their best to escalate the situation.

In some way you can understand both “sides“ there and that both sides are sort of engaging in dangerous things. And it should also be noted that at least some of the ICE agents might easily become more dangerous agents in the future because power hungry people tend to get attracted to such jobs who want to dictate and control what others do even though it is none of their business.

It doesn’t look all that good for americas future.

From my perspective, the whole Renee Good vs ICE agent scenario boils down to 2 fundamental premises...

She shouldn't have been there and He shouldn't have done that.

1) She shouldn't have been there.

She put herself right in the centre of a potentially dangerous and chaotic situation. We know that she was a trained leftist activist who drove to Minneapolis for the purpose of protesting ICE arrests. She deliberately drove her car into the middle of the road to interfere with law enforcement agents who were in the process of doing their job. This is an illegal activity, and there are consequences for breaking the law. One of the consequences is to be detained by law enforcement and to comply with their verbal commands. She ignored the commands and instead chose to try and escape by driving away, and in doing so (whether purposeful or not) made physical contact with the officer who then responded with lethal force. These are the basic facts as seen in the video.

2) He shouldn't have done that.

He was engaged in the task of arresting and deporting illegal immigrants. Anyone who enters the country "illegally" can be considered a criminal, and thus be subject to arrest by law enforcement. The ICE officer has been given a mandate by the government to do this. Under the law, he has a reasonable expectation to be able to perform his duties without interference by the public. Anyone who, in any way, impedes, obstructs or prevents an officer from exercising his duties, is also breaking the law, and can be arrested for doing so. Upon seeing this woman deliberately obstructing his activities with her car, he gave her a direct verbal order to turn off the ignition and exit the vehicle. She ignored this command and instead tried to drive away, resulting in the officer being struck and him responding with lethal force.

It is my understanding of US law, that a motor vehicle can be considered as a "dangerous weapon" if there exists a threat that it will be used to cause bodily harm. That the vehicle struck him as she tried to flee, whether intentional or not, placed the car into this category. For this reason, his actions to respond with lethal force were probably legally justifiable. But whether they were morally justifiable is another thing altogether.

For anyone with common sense who watched the scene unfold, it seems pretty obvious that the officer's life was not ever really in danger, as he could have easily sidestepped the vehicle, and prevented her escape by less excessive means, ie: using his gun to shoot out the tires, or noting the license plate number to arrest her later. So, the argument that he overreacted to the incident and used excessive force is valid, although I don't think it would stand up in a court of law.

But my main point is that part 2 (He shouldn't have done that) followed as a direct result of part 1 (She shouldn't have been there).

None of this would have happened if the woman had stayed home with her kid, or protested with a sign from the sidelines, or at the very least complied with the officers demand to exit the vehicle. By interfering with the ICE agent's ability to do their job unimpeded and trying to escape instead of following a direct command, she deliberately put herself in harms way.

This is not an attempt to absolve the ICE agents over-reaction to the situation and I'm not saying she deserved to die, or even was "asking for it" in that sense. But that in her ignorance, self-righteousness and delusion as a result of insane leftist programming, it was her own stupid decisions and actions (conscious or not) that put her life at risk. And for that reason I think the greater burden of responsibility of this tragic event falls squarely on her shoulders.

The C's talk about creating a strategic enclosure for a reason. So that one can recognize, anticipate and steer clear of potentially dangerous situations. Stay away from events that are unpredictable, chaotic, explosive, and where emotions are running high. Don't engage in mass protests that are fraught with peril because people are running around like crazy and law enforcement officers are already on edge.

Their recent advice to "keep a low profile" during these uncertain times becomes especially prescient and seems tailored for exactly this type of scenario.

Another version of this idea is - play stupid games, win stupid prizes, or FAFO.

One can't walk into a lions den and then act surprised or complain when they get mauled.
 
I sure don't want to make some kind of apology for the ICE agent that shot Renee Good with this new video but, just want to show how dangerous their mandate is.
Left and Right will keep taking their content/news out to favor their narratives. This one, about a man that was left blind because an agent of DHS shot a "non lethal round" to the face in an anti ICE protest, read it yesterday at RT News TC, and published at several news outlets. Although, it happened on the 9th of January.

I guess things will escalated much more until it reach the point of no return. Because contrary to all logic and common sense, anti-ICE protesters will continue to protest, perhaps with even greater force and anger, and so will the agents, because the others - illegals and anti-ICE- are the enemies of the nation, so they need to take matters at hand.
 
From my perspective, the whole Renee Good vs ICE agent scenario boils down to 2 fundamental premises...

She shouldn't have been there and He shouldn't have done that.

1) She shouldn't have been there.

She put herself right in the centre of a potentially dangerous and chaotic situation. We know that she was a trained leftist activist who drove to Minneapolis for the purpose of protesting ICE arrests. She deliberately drove her car into the middle of the road to interfere with law enforcement agents who were in the process of doing their job. This is an illegal activity, and there are consequences for breaking the law. One of the consequences is to be detained by law enforcement and to comply with their verbal commands. She ignored the commands and instead chose to try and escape by driving away, and in doing so (whether purposeful or not) made physical contact with the officer who then responded with lethal force. These are the basic facts as seen in the video.

The problem is that US courts have ruled that some aspects of Trump's immigration policy, specifically relating to the actions of ICE, have been ruled unconstitutional, and have been blocked, often on grounds of overreach, lack of due process, or discrimination.

So there is legitimate reason for US citizens so inclined to decide to take a stand against what has been deemed illegal activity by law enforcement. Not saying it's a good idea, just that these people believe, not without reason, that they are standing up FOR the law, not acting against it.

2) He shouldn't have done that.

He was engaged in the task of arresting and deporting illegal immigrants. Anyone who enters the country "illegally" can be considered a criminal, and thus be subject to arrest by law enforcement. The ICE officer has been given a mandate by the government to do this. Under the law, he has a reasonable expectation to be able to perform his duties without interference by the public. Anyone who, in any way, impedes, obstructs or prevents an officer from exercising his duties, is also breaking the law, and can be arrested for doing so.

See above.

It is my understanding of US law, that a motor vehicle can be considered as a "dangerous weapon" if there exists a threat that it will be used to cause bodily harm. That the vehicle struck him as she tried to flee, whether intentional or not, placed the car into this category. For this reason, his actions to respond with lethal force were probably legally justifiable. But whether they were morally justifiable is another thing altogether.

The law does not allow a police officer to shoot a person for attempting to leave the scene of a crime, unless they posed a direct threat to the life of the officer or other people.

For anyone with common sense who watched the scene unfold, it seems pretty obvious that the officer's life was not ever really in danger, as he could have easily sidestepped the vehicle, and prevented her escape by less excessive means, ie: using his gun to shoot out the tires, or noting the license plate number to arrest her later. So, the argument that he overreacted to the incident and used excessive force is valid, although I don't think it would stand up in a court of law.

I'd say it probably will, especially given that he was in violation of ICE protocols to NOT put themselves directly in the front of a vehicle, which he did.

But my main point is that part 2 (He shouldn't have done that) followed as a direct result of part 1 (She shouldn't have been there).

None of this would have happened if the woman had stayed home with her kid, or protested with a sign from the sidelines, or at the very least complied with the officers demand to exit the vehicle. By interfering with the ICE agent's ability to do their job unimpeded and trying to escape instead of following a direct command, she deliberately put herself in harms way.

And like I said, she (and others who are doing the same) believe that ICE agents are acting illegally themselves.


This is not an attempt to absolve the ICE agents over-reaction to the situation and I'm not saying she deserved to die, or even was "asking for it" in that sense. But that in her ignorance, self-righteousness and delusion as a result of insane leftist programming, it was her own stupid decisions and actions (conscious or not) that put her life at risk. And for that reason I think the greater burden of responsibility of this tragic event falls squarely on her shoulders.

I agree with that, in the same way that anyone who doesn't want to shot by an ICE agent or cop should not do anything that might provoke them to use deadly force, whether they are justified in doing so or not. It's a dangerous game to play, whether justified or not.

The C's talk about creating a strategic enclosure for a reason. So that one can recognize, anticipate and steer clear of potentially dangerous situations. Stay away from events that are unpredictable, chaotic, explosive, and where emotions are running high. Don't engage in mass protests that are fraught with peril because people are running around like crazy and law enforcement officers are already on edge.

Very true.
 
The law does not allow a police officer to shoot a person for attempting to leave the scene of a crime, unless they posed a direct threat to the life of the officer or other people.
Seems he was struck by the vehicle, since US officials are saying he suffered internal bleeding. That is probably like a bruise or contusion and nothing serious, but it would confirm that she hit him with the vehicle. The law is pretty clear on self-defense and this looks to be a clear case of that.
 
Seems he was struck by the vehicle, since US officials are saying he suffered internal bleeding. That is probably like a bruise or contusion and nothing serious, but it would confirm that she hit him with the vehicle. The law is pretty clear on self-defense and this looks to be a clear case of that.

I suppose we'll have to leave that to the courts. Whatever the outcome is, I'll assume that to be the truth. But that aspect is obviously completely beside the point of all the discussion about this. So it's kind of weird to see people focusing on it. Like I said elsewhere, it's just a foil for the real debate. It's kind of tiring to discuss something when people aren't open, or able to be open, about what their actual motivation is.

Do I think it's a good idea for ICE to be trying to remove illegals from the country? Yes.

Do I think some of them take their authority too far (as has been the case with individuals across law enforcement historically) and end up shooting people without good legal (not 'moral') cause? Yes.

Is that 2nd point the case here? I can't know for sure.

In any case, whatever my perspective on it, it's just my opinion, which isn't really worth much, and I don't mind anyway because I'm not at all identified with any particular outcome and an lucky to not have any skin in the game. Even if I did, I'd probably be well advised to withdraw it, if possible. I just find the dynamic interesting from an evolving societal/political/global affairs POV.
 
This shooting conversation is happening in 2 different threads... Here's the other with more vids + comments:

As both threads are commenting on pretty much the exact same topics, wouldn't it make sense to combine them so we're all on the same page so to speak? Plus, there's additional opinions and insights regarding the Good shooting (really just a coincidence regarding her name?) and the very relevant issues on the entire subject as has been touched upon in this thread.
 
Seems he was struck by the vehicle, since US officials are saying he suffered internal bleeding. That is probably like a bruise or contusion and nothing serious, but it would confirm that she hit him with the vehicle. The law is pretty clear on self-defense and this looks to be a clear case of that.
The crux of the matter. Is it self-defense?

Remember the grainy footage that appears to show Agent Ross being momentarily 'pushed' by the hood of the vehicle?

Here it is again:


IMO, his feet are sliding like that because he partially slips on the ice right as he draws his gun. I don't think the vehicle touched him.

Trump and Noem announced, on the day it happened, that Ross had been "viciously run over" and hospitalized. Now, a week later, DHS 'sources' say he "suffered internal bleeding to the torso."

In this NYT video report, we see footage of him, from the 3:15 mark, walking just fine afterwards and issuing orders to his colleagues. At the very least, we should all be able to agree that whatever happened to him is far from Trump's "he was viciously run over."

You know the way Trump et al lie about things like "Maduro killing 2 million of his own people"?

They also do it for partisan domestic politics.
 
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