Trust law, corporate law, and is there anything to the 'sovereigns'

Foxx

The Living Force
Hi all!

Has anyone looked into the sovereign "freeman on the land" movement much? I've looked around a bit on here and not found much discussion beyond criticism and emotionally-loaded responses.

While I had generally ignored the movement for sometime, citing the very clear reality that the psychopathic ruling elites don't obey the law and have all the weapons, after viewing a lecture series by Dean Clifford and contemplating the cassiopaean's statements on things like forming the legal entity for the Paleo Christianity group as being a 3D symbolism of 4D concepts and some of their descriptions around areas of consenting to 4D STS, I've been wondering if there actually is something useful to the movement and that ignoring the legal element, despite its tremendous prominence in our lives, is perhaps missing a key element of the puzzle. There certainly seem to be elements of disinformation and/or incomplete information within the sovereign movement, which also suggests to me that there might be something of use there.

It's certainly very clear that those who make the rules (perhaps laws aren't the right word, as common law/man's law/god's law seems to be the actual law and the rest are statutes, acts, etc) both make the rules in their favor and then don't even follow them (or follow common law), but it's also clear that, in general, people consent to statutes/acts, taxes, and other areas that clearly benefit those in power which likely has 4D symbolic outcomes as well. I'm not looking to 'get out of paying taxes', but to stop feeding the cancer.

Here's the link to the lecture series by Dean Clifford. All the lectures are titled PartXblah and there are also interviews in the playlist as well, that seem to just be primarily profanity interspersed with some redundant information to the lectures, unprepared interviewers, and some other non-productive dialog.
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsJjPZkqspA&feature=BFa&list=PL1B289953BD4AE100&lf=results_main

Essentially, what he says is that just because the government was established and then created a whole bunch of rules, doesn't mean that we consented to them by being born. Legally speaking, each individual person is a beneficiary to the last will and testament of god, which is proven by the birth certificate they receive (one of the few, perhaps the only, government documents one has that is signed by the government). Being the beneficiary, one can appoint whomever they want to be the executor or director of the legal entity or person that was created along with the creation of the birth certificate (your name in all caps, ie JANE DOE), and that there is then a third role, that of the trustee or employee, which is the one who serves the other two and is 'ruled' by the executor. This can be illustrated more clearly in corporate law (which is also trust law) in that there are shareholders (beneficiaries), executive(s)/CEOs, and then employees, who are the trustees. Shareholders choose who the executives are, those who will give them the best 'return on their investment' (theoretically), who in turn give the direction to the entity (corporation), which is carried out by the employees, who are required to listen to the executives in order to (theoretically) get the best return on investment for the beneficiaries.

He starts off by saying it comes down to the holy trinity and that in trust law, there are always the three parties of beneficary(ies), executor(s), and trustee(s). There are many trinities that arise in the legal system and laws, it seems, which is especially interesting. Being born, one is innately the beneficiary, though which of the other two roles one chooses to play is up to the individual at the time of choice (which could be anytime and is done essentially anytime one interacts with the government in a 'law enforcement' capacity).

Essentially, then, the birth certificate certifies that you are a beneficiary to the last will and testament of god which, legally speaking, is the 'common wealth' that is, the planet. As the beneficiary, one can choose to be either their own executor or to give someone else that role and play either no other role (not what usually happens) or play the role of the trustee. What happens typically, he says, is that the government makes legal presumptions (a presumption of law is the term he uses) that you are playing the role of the trustee in your legal entity and that you've appointed the government (which is also a corporation) to be the executor of your legal person, which then subjects you to the statutes and acts that they create since you've essentially given away your free will to them as they're the executives and you are required to do as they say as per the defined roles. In a false way too, this is signing over your liability (and thus free will) to them and in doing so, they take on a responsibility for you and thus can tell you want to do since they're [falsely] liable. One can't give away one's liability truly, though, as demonstrated by not being able to have someone pay you to take on their liability for doing damage to others--the damage causer is fundamentally responsible ("...but that guy said he'd take on the liability of me punching you in the face if I paid him $50", doesn't work). This, he says, is how one becomes an employee of the government (by assuming the trustee role and de facto appointing the government as your executor) and, thus, subject to its statues or 'rules for employment'.

To get out of this, he says, one must assume liability and responsibility for oneself and one's actions (certainly ties in to spirituality) and appoint oneself to be one's executor and then clearly establish the roles of the public servants as trustees, instead of executors. This is done both at the time(s) of interactions with public servants (police, judges, etc) and also, more ideally, before hand at the courts by filing affidavits and contacting the government ahead of time to clarify rights (as in, I understand myself to be the beneficiary, which empowers me to appoint an executor--I'm appointing myself--which then permits me full control and liability of my legal person and governance power over any trustees appointed or employed to serve my common inheritance. If my understanding is incorrect, you have [a reasonable timeframe] to respond to me. Failure to respond within the timeframe indicates that my understanding is correct) and then filing the information as an affidavit in court and deferring the applications of statutes to the affidavits and asserting your role as the executor. One then obeys common law, existing peacefully without damaging others, and taking responsibility when one does damage others, and then does not consent to contracting with the corporation of the government.

One of the biggest keys seems to be PROVING that you're free, as in all these elements are true to the degree that being free is true and all other arguments are rendered completely irrelevant.

I can write more about what he talks about in the videos, but this seems to be enough of an intro that anyone can reflect on whether they think this thinking is either false or fruitless, because that's what mainly interests me. A lot of what he says rings true in my mind, but navigating the legal field is obviously designed to be tricky/challenging and I have not been able to find all the pertinent legal references for the united states (he's in Canada, but says it generally applies everywhere), except this referring to the united states as a federal corporation (15 A):

_http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00003002----000-.html

After reading through some of the maxims of law, also referred to as common law, it generally seems to be a kind of logical (deductive reasoning) list resulting from an assumption of freedom and respect for others (if all are free, then these are true). The idea of his description of being a method for taking over the freedom of others makes a great deal of sense to me, which clearly does not make it true (or, potentially, relevant), and sounds similar to some of the descriptions of consent to 4D manipulation and general interactions between 'us' and 'them' from the cassiopaeans, as I've understood them.

What is certainly true, is that taking this path legally speaking would not be easy (it'd involve risk and probably confrontation--neither of which are terribly enjoyable), especially early on and especially paving the way, but once one has enough knowledge of the system, it seems relatively easy to opt out initially and then deal with the ramifications (probably reduced if one sets up a fee schedule properly AND asserts one's rights--the latter being most challenging ['A: we didn't say some flashing lights hypnotize, we said all.']) afterward which, to me, strongly suggests that the path can be fruitful and have 4D implications.

And, (theoretically) conveniently, if any of the sovereign ideas have any actual weight to it, then getting the relevant information out there to folks should be a relatively simply compilation job, though with the onus being on each person to resist hypnotism and assert their rights.

I plan on looking for more pertinent information in the US legal codes and have some resources that I haven't digested yet that may shed more light on relevant references, but until then does anyone else have a take on these ideas or any additional relevant information and/or legal advice?

Thanks, as always, for all the help!
 
Yes, I think it's been discussed. Do a search on the relevant terms and I'm sure you'll find the thread(s) - oops, I misread your initial sentences. Just because you disagree with the input given on the forum does not mean that it is emotionally loaded. Please link to the discussion you are referring to so we can merge the threads - there is no need to repeat this topic.
 
Searching for 'sovereign' and 'freeman' and sorting through the resulting threads, I found these two that were relevant but different:

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,12317.msg88756.html
and
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,1126.msg5508.html

There was another thread where a posting I read seemed emotionally loaded in my reading, essentially stating that since there's a psychopathic ruling elite who breaks all the rules anyway, there's no point in evaluating the legal system as a potentially useful and/or relevant tool--my assessment of a possible emotional attachment was not a result from my disagreement from the content (since I consider that point to be very possibly correct) but from my observations of the communique, but I can't find that post/thread right now.

Perhaps my posting would have been more relevant as an addendum to the lawful rebellion thread.
 
Neither one of those are the discussion I was thinking about actually. If I get time later today, I'll search for it.
 
Foxx said:
Has anyone looked into the sovereign "freeman on the land" movement much?

What do you mean by "freeman on the land" as "movement"?

Foxx said:
I've been wondering if there actually is something useful to the movement and that ignoring the legal element...is perhaps missing a key element of the puzzle.

"missing a key element of the puzzle" in what way?

Foxx said:
[snippage lots]

To get out of this, he says, one must assume liability and responsibility for oneself and one's actions (certainly ties in to spirituality)...

Indeed, the "legal" Sovereign is not much different from Gurdjieff's esoteric concept of the man who is Master of Self - a useful aim of the Work.

Foxx said:
One of the biggest keys seems to be PROVING that you're free, as in all these elements are true to the degree that being free is true and all other arguments are rendered completely irrelevant.

In reality, one doesn't need to PROVE one is free, one just recognizes and acts accordingly - even to the point of defending one's freedom, if that's desired.

Foxx said:
I can write more about what he talks about in the videos, but this seems to be enough of an intro that anyone can reflect on whether they think this thinking is either false or fruitless, because that's what mainly interests me.

It's not false, as I see it, but it may be fruitless to some. Obviously few people enjoyed their Sovereignty when they had it or few want it now, else it would be a fact of life, OSIT. Similar with esoteric Work: some will only go so far but will balk at breaking the final beliefs, assumptions and illusions that would force them into Sovereignty.


Foxx said:
A lot of what he says rings true in my mind, but navigating the legal field is obviously designed to be tricky/challenging and I have not been able to find all the pertinent legal references for the united states

Exactly what references are you looking for?

Foxx said:
After reading through some of the maxims of law, also referred to as common law, it generally seems to be a kind of logical (deductive reasoning) list resulting from an assumption of freedom and respect for others (if all are free, then these are true). The idea of his description of being a method for taking over the freedom of others makes a great deal of sense to me, which clearly does not make it true (or, potentially, relevant), and sounds similar to some of the descriptions of consent to 4D manipulation and general interactions between 'us' and 'them' from the cassiopaeans, as I've understood them.

OK.

Foxx said:
What is certainly true, is that taking this path legally speaking would not be easy (it'd involve risk and probably confrontation--neither of which are terribly enjoyable), especially early on and especially paving the way, but once one has enough knowledge of the system, it seems relatively easy to opt out initially and then deal with the ramifications (probably reduced if one sets up a fee schedule properly AND asserts one's rights--the latter being most challenging ['A: we didn't say some flashing lights hypnotize, we said all.']) afterward which, to me, strongly suggests that the path can be fruitful and have 4D implications.

What are you talking about "taking this path legally speaking"? Do you want "government" to legally recognize you as Sovereign?

Foxx said:
And, (theoretically) conveniently, if any of the sovereign ideas have any actual weight to it, then getting the relevant information out there to folks should be a relatively simply compilation job, though with the onus being on each person to resist hypnotism and assert their rights.

Actually, education on this subject was an ongoing effort for many years in various venues. The info was on the internet in plain sight for many years, but the few individuals who made it their business to get the info out, now can't even give it away. As one proof: you didn't know much about it and others still don't know about it.

Foxx said:
I plan on looking for more pertinent information in the US legal codes

What are you looking for in the "US legal codes"?

Foxx said:
...until then does anyone else have a take on these ideas or any additional relevant information and/or legal advice?

Thanks, as always, for all the help!

I'm not in "law" and I'm not offering any legal advice. As mentioned previously, there are many esoteric parallels here. I would posit being Sovereign is more about removing attachments, identifications and dependencies on the "system" than about "acquiring" anything. In the process, most people may also have to descend deeply into their own belief systems in order to pull the lies out by the roots. Also like esoteric Work, if you think you can trust people around you IRL, with what you are wanting to do, or what you are doing, you may regret it. That may also explain the noticeable lack of public discussions on the subject.

Otherwise, a personal IRL network of other Sovereigns or Sovereigns-in-training is your only hope, Obi Wan. :)

As Robert A Wilson was wont to say: "There are no secrets. If you know yourself, you know what everybody else is hiding."
 
It is interesting to me that I have just been looking into just this Sovereignty subject for the last hour & was just checking into Sott, & the Forum before turning off this computer. This topic caught my eye & I would like to offer a link to a video I just watched, that may help others here if they are interested, although it may or may not help Foxx ( the OP) in his/her search.

Maritime Admiralty Law & Civil Law
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYgjzniyVJk&feature=related

I cannot say that I have looked into Soverienty much...as Foxx had asked in the first question of the original post. I do intend on looking into it further, now that I have been doing some viewing & reading on it. This is the link that I had just started reading & watching before I was checking in here:
_http://sovereign-citizenship.net/home/home.html

perhaps following some of the links( lower part of page) there might help the OP , or anyone interested.
Another link I stumbled upon is :
_http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Freedom/Freedom.htm

More Sovereignty information is likely available, since I had not used a search engine about it yet. That will come once I exhaust the information path I am on now at that particular site I referenced.

I tend to look at "any" information that I am not familiar with, is worth knowing, regardless if others feel the need to know it or not. Gathering knowledge is important to us all, particularly in times that we are in at the present, & certainly into the future,correct?
:)

I really do find it interesting that this topic popped into my view at this particular time. I do not believe n coincidence much....
Very interesting.
;)

Good luck in your search Foxx. I hope I helped in some small way.
:)

edit:added & fixed link
 
MnSportsman said:
I tend to look at "any" information that I am not familiar with, is worth knowing, regardless if others feel the need to know it or not. Gathering knowledge is important to us all, particularly in times that we are in at the present, & certainly into the future,correct?
:)

Well, since you asked.... :)

This is what the Cs had to say about collecting disinformation, as not all information is what it may seem to be. I'm not saying that the information you are looking into is disinformation, only answering the question you asked above. Not all "information" is desirable.

Session 941119 said:
Q: (T) The object behind using the electronic ignitions, from
what I have heard, whether the source is true or not I can't
say, but I had a strange confirmation of part of it.
A: Beware of disinformation. It diverts your attention away
from reality thus leaving you open to capture and conquest
and even possible destruction.
Q: (L) Is the information about the electronic ignition systems
correct?
A: Disinformation comes from seemingly reliable sources. It is
extremely important for you to not gather false knowledge as
it is more damaging than no knowledge at all. Remember
knowledge protects, ignorance endangers. The information
you speak of, T***, was given to you deliberately because
you and J*** and others have been targeted due to your
intense interest in level of density 4 through 7 subject matter.
You have already been documented as a "threat."
Q: (L) Can you tell T*** what event occurred (referring to
"confirmation" of electronic ignition subject)...
A: Remember, disinformation is very effective when delivered
by highly trained sources because hypnotic and
transdimensional techniques are used thereby causing
electronic anomalies to follow suggestion causing perceived
confirmation to occur.
 
Thank You Nienna Eluch,
I appreciate your pointing that information/session advice out for me.
:)
I remember reading that session, although I had not applied it to what I have been looking into lately, particularly Sovereignty. I will try to make it a "point to remember"as I travel about in my myriad paths. I am happy that you reminded me. As it is sound advice for anyone, to check on things, as they pursue their varied interests.
TY again.
:)

Respects,
JB/MnSportsman
 
Bud said:
In reality, one doesn't need to PROVE one is free, one just recognizes and acts accordingly - even to the point of defending one's freedom, if that's desired.
...
What are you talking about "taking this path legally speaking"? Do you want "government" to legally recognize you as Sovereign?
...
I'm not in "law" and I'm not offering any legal advice. As mentioned previously, there are many esoteric parallels here. I would posit being Sovereign is more about removing attachments, identifications and dependencies on the "system" than about "acquiring" anything. In the process, most people may also have to descend deeply into their own belief systems in order to pull the lies out by the roots. Also like esoteric Work, if you think you can trust people around you IRL, with what you are wanting to do, or what you are doing, you may regret it. That may also explain the noticeable lack of public discussions on the subject.

Here's the question that I was trying to get at in this posting: with all the wars, killing, and pillaging that the elites are undertaking currently, beyond getting healthy and pursuing esoteric knowledge, is there any action one can take to change things? In the face of their actions, I'm not inclined to remain law-abiding and I see that paying taxes and recognizing debts are transfers of energy into the control system/4D STS. I'm not looking to evade chipping in for the common good, but that's clearly not what taxes, fines, criminal charges, fabricated debts, and going to jail in a fascist totalitarian empire are about.

It seems that one of the primary goals of The Work is to stop being food for the predators. One of the ways they eat people is through the legal system, which is clearly created by them to serve them to the detriment of the people. You mention sovereignty is recognizing one's freedom and acting accordingly even to the point of defending one's freedom, if that's desired--do you pay taxes? If you were free and paid taxes, regardless of the nation you were in, these taxes would in some percentage, at some point, be funding the march of the fascist totalitarian empire, in which case you'd be saying that you want the empire to continue--since you are free and, thus, freely and knowledgeably sending your financial energy their way.

If you were free and don't pay taxes or only pay the portion that goes to serve the common good, how do you address the situation of when the empire knocks at your door, guns blazing, and says 'pay us the taxes for our mass murders or we'll take everything you have and/or kill you'? The question, thus, is are you free to the degree that you've escaped the 'laws' created by the empire to serve it against the people? Are you free in the sense that you do not contribute financially to the march of the fascist state and it's psychopathic serial killing agenda, along with the 4D STS in turn? Or, do you break the laws that serve the fascist march and simply prepare for the day that may come when they show up at your door and take your life, knowing that your consciousness is eternal?

I didn't bring up this topic as a sidetracking from esoteric knowledge and pursuits of health--very clearly viewed as threats by the control system and certainly very important--but I find little discourse here regarding how to functionally change things in terms of the march of the totalitarian state, and the people who are looking at the legal element may have stumbled upon something interesting in usurping the control--at least for individuals who choose to take such a path against the police state--in the application of trust law and corporate law against the "government". And, honestly, I have no idea what to do otherwise! I eat pastured meats, I try and self observe and know the world objectively, I study, I try and pass on knowledge and respect the requests from others to remain ignorant and suffer (primarily all I hear from those I know in the physical realm--how boring it's become!), I self reflect, and I think about this march of fascism and what to do about, what's failed to be effective in the past, whether new movements (#OWS, bank run, etc) could have any effect and, honestly, I don't know what to do in the fascism realm at all. I ask myself all the time, "What can I do to stop it? How can I be more effective?"

What I wanted to get was anyone's opinion on how they resolved 'being free' and paying taxes, or anything that contributes to the march of global fascism--it could be as simple as smoking tobacco where ever you want in public where it's been deemed 'illegal'. Does anyone do that? Do you get fined/arrested? Do you not pay the fine, knowing that the fine is a form of energy eating that is illegitimate and directly against the benefit of you, along with then helping to continue to build the powers of, eventually, 4D STS? Or do you not smoke 'where you're not allowed' and pay your taxes in full and on time? And, if so, do you consider yourself to be free? Or is being free in the legal sense a pipe dream and simply not relevant?

Is taking a stand against the 3D STS control system elites (TPTB), legally, simply fruitless and, if so, what's anyone's opinion on why that's so? I am entirely open to a clear reason as to why it's fruitless to pursue legal freedom, I just haven't heard one yet and don't understand why it would be the case. Maybe it's already been answered here, but I've looked and haven't found the reason.

And, otherwise, this trust and corporate law stuff is the best I've heard so far that might be effective. Protesting seems bound to fail--why would psychopaths care about protestors? They're still buying stuff anyway, and will probably pay their taxes eventually. They're also eating crap food and probably increasing their physical and emotional stress. And bank runs? I thought that'd be effective for a long time but, the more I think about it lately, especially if people don't opt out of the fiat currencies and hearing it promoted by the OWS movement (and having a date set and seeing NOTHING happen from it), it probably won't be effective. I mean, if some of the TBTF banks fail or start to fail, the government can just bail them out again and/or other TBTF banks can buy them on the cheap!

Essentially, to me, it seems like wishful thinking that eating right/healing (including EE, which I try and do daily), studying esoteric knowledge, and helping to facilitate learning when asked, will be enough to change anything, without having to directly confront the 3D STS control system at some point, probably with one or more guns pointed at one's face.

It's also worth noting that I wasn't looking for find 'sovereigns' in real life whom I could trust like some gullible fool, but rather who might have some more concrete evidence that they have removed themselves from the demands of the fascist state and evidence supporting or refuting whether such tactics are effective against the empire, since evidence of such presented online is not very concrete in this regard. Like finding someone who had registered their own license plate and driving around with them, passing police officers--that's the kind of evidence I'm interested in. Along with the methods they used that I might be able to verify in the US legal codes and/or through other methods, and scrutinize with my own thought.

Thanks for the links MnSportsman! The famguardian.org one looks like it might have some interesting info--I'm going to have to check it out. I've kind of put the legal sovereignty element aside for some reading to 'get up to speed' on the gnostic work--lots of reading to do! However, here's a video with some fairly concrete evidence, as far as a youtube video can be, (again, not very concrete) regarding fee schedules that seems interesting:

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6dd51cgpq4

The youtube submitter has some other relevant videos, not all of which I've watched.

Also, I'm not sure if there are no coincidences, but Laura has been very clear numerous times that synchronicities can be generated by 4D STS to lead people astray, which seems rather likely to be true from my thought and observation and her evidence, and so I try and keep my emotions about them at bay while taking note of them and analyzing events for significance.
 
I'll put it this way (and please note this is just a perspective intended to help explain my own meaning in the previous post):

There is no "government" that passes "laws" that need to be "escaped" or "broken". In terms of valid concepts, the associations between the individuals so employed and paid with your tax money and their offices are so loose as to be a granfalloon, rather than a logically valid conceptual entity.

What actually exists are individuals, going about making noises with their mouths, making scribbles with their pens and typing characters on a computer screen. They then make noises to the media broadcasters who in turn look at scribbles and make noises to each other and to viewers who interpret these noises according to their ongoing fantasy and hallucinations.

Having shared noise-meaning conventional neural configurations, individuals then go about modifying their behaviors, making more noises - some happy and some not so happy.

Do you really want to directly challenge people living in a fantasy world and having access to all the guns, fists and other weapons of war they could ever need? There's no need to. The first goal is to become conscious of the game, or the matrix. Until then, I recommend "rendering unto Caeser what is Caeser's" so you may live long enough to be useful to your network and fulfill whatever your true potential may be. Or, as otherwise directed by who you wish to serve.

The Work is esoteric to begin with. If memory serves, according to Gurdjieff, when you fuse a singular I, or fuse to a certain point, consciously chosen sacrifice can stop. At that point and with your own will, you will know what your options are, you will be the master of the option and you simply do whatever you choose to do.

I may be completely off my rocker, though, and others may have much better advice. :)
 
After reading over your post a few times and having reflected on this topic since originally posting it, I see your point--the consciously chosen sacrifice. I was not considering what Castaneda had said about forbearance, in this case.

I'll leave my focus on the esoteric and health.

Thanks for the reflection!
 
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