Turkey threatens to invade Iraq

[Laura]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0700world/tm_objectid%3D17408927%26method%3Dfull%26siteid%3D50082%26headline%3Dturkey-threatens-to-invade-iraq-name_page.html

Jul 19 2006

icWales


Turkish officials have signalled that they are prepared to send their army into northern Iraq if US and Iraqi forces do not take steps to combat Turkish Kurdish guerrillas there.

Such a move could put Turkey on a collision course with the US, which has repeatedly warned against unilateral moves in Iraq.

But Turkey is facing increasing domestic pressure to take some kind of action after 15 soldiers, police and guards were killed in fighting with the guerrillas in the past week.

"The government is really in a bind," said Seyfi Tashan, director of the Foreign Policy Institute at Bilkent University in Ankara. "On the one hand they don't want things to break down with the US. On the other hand, the public is crying for action."

Diplomats and experts cautioned that the increasingly aggressive Turkish statements were likely aimed at calming public anger and pressing the US and Iraq to act against the rebels, who are based in northern Iraq's rugged Qandil mountains.

But they also caution that Turkish politicians and military officers could take action if nothing is done.

US officials in Turkey and Washington were in contact with Turkish officials and military commanders to press them to work with Washington to combat the guerrillas and not take act alone, a Western diplomat said. The diplomat spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject.

Turkey's NTV television and Hurriyet newspaper reported yesterday that the government has instructed the military to draw up plans for a push into northern Iraq and to advise on the possibilities that such a move could lead to a clash with Iraqi Kurdish forces or US troops in the area.

Any operation was unlikely to take place before the end of August, when the current military chief of staff is replaced by an officer widely regarded as a hard-liner, NTV said.

The Western diplomat said the Turkish military has long had plans for fighting guerrillas in northern Iraq. Those plans range from limited artillery and air strikes on guerrilla bases to attacks by commando forces and a broader ground offensive.

American officials, including US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, have repeatedly warned Turkey against entering northern Iraq, one of the few stable areas of the country.

US Ambassador Ross Wilson said on Monday that Turkish, Iraqi and US cooperation is a "more sensible way to go forward than perhaps to ... try to do it unilaterally."

In Iraq, Nechirvan Barzani, prime minister of the Kurdistan regional government that runs the north of the country, appeared to be addressing Turkish concerns about guerrilla attacks when he said yesterday that Iraqi Kurds "won't allow anyone to harm our neighbours by using our territory."

But he also warned that the problem with the guerrillas "cannot be solved through military means alone," Turkey's DHA news agency reported.

Turkey considers the guerrillas to be terrorists and has refused to talk with them.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan appeared to be confirming reports that the military was ordered to draft plans when he said yesterday that "we know how to take care of (our terrorism problem) on our own... Our competent units are making preparations and will continue to do so."

Erdogan's spokesman, Akif Beki, refused to comment on the reports and instead referred to government spokesman Cemil Cicek's Monday statement to the press. Cicek called on Iraqi and US forces to take stronger action against the rebels and warned that if they did not, "Turkey is going to use its international rights until the very end."

Officials on Tuesday reported no unusual military activity in the border regions.

A Turkish push into northern Iraq could also threaten relations with EU countries, which have been pressing Turkey to improve minority Kurdish rights as a step toward defusing tensions in the Kurdish southeast.

An incursion might also be a very difficult military mission.

The guerrillas are mostly based in the Qandil mountains, an area 80 kilometres (50 miles) from the Turkish border with Iran. The guerrillas infiltrate into south-eastern Turkey from those bases to attack. Turkey has long had some 2,000 troops in northern Iraq near the border monitoring the area.

If Turkey sent in military units they would have to travel through territory controlled by potentially hostile Iraqi Kurds. The area is mountainous and Turkish Kurdish guerrillas often cross into bordering Iranian territory, which is mostly Kurdish.

"I don't think it is Turkey's desire to stage an intervention in northern Iraq," said Ilter Turan, professor of international relations at Istanbul Bilgi University. Turkey "is simply trying to draw attention to the fact that it is an untenable position."

But he quickly warned that "if you don't tread a line very carefully, you can become a captive of your own rhetoric."

 

[Alana]

I just heard this from a colleague and i said "No way!" And now i find it here.

Such a move could put Turkey on a collision course with the US, which has repeatedly warned against unilateral moves in Iraq.

Well, people in Cyprus believe that Turkey is another of the US' puppets, and has the US behind their back regarding the Cyprus problem, and that's why they can be bold and make demands on their terms regarding their entrance into the EU. Why would they now want to aggrevate their powerful friends? this might be indeed the case:

Diplomats and experts cautioned that the increasingly aggressive Turkish statements were likely aimed at calming public anger and pressing the US and Iraq to act against the rebels, who are based in northern Iraq's rugged Qandil mountains.

I went to find out more about Kurdistan and the Kurdist querillas and found this map:

http://www.warnews.it/immagini/cartine/kurdistan.gif

Kurdistan is not even a "traced" country. Wikipedia writes about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

Kurdistan (literally meaning "the land of Kurds")[1] (old: Koordistan, Curdistan, Kurdia, also in Kurdish: Kurdewar

 

[paulnotbilly]

I just heard this from a colleague and i said "No way!" And now i find it here.

Such a move could put Turkey on a collision course with the US, which has repeatedly warned against unilateral moves in Iraq.

Well, people in Cyprus believe that Turkey is another of the US' puppets, and has the US behind their back regarding the Cyprus problem, and that's why they can be bold and make demands on their terms regarding their entrance into the EU. Why would they now want to aggrevate their powerful friends?

There is an excellent book available in Cyprus about the Greek/Turkey problems over the years and how Kissenger used the problems to create the situation today. (Sorry can't remember the name but I would think any good bookshop will have a copy, my copy got lent out about 2 years ago, ain't seen it since).

The main gist of the story is that of empires - the USA wanted to supplant the Brit empire. This was helped along by the Suez crisis when the USA offloaded a shedload of UK currency thus driving down it's value. Thus when the Brits were looking at leaving the USA wanted to step in. Unfortunately, much the same as every other country where the Brit empire has been kicked out, nobody wants to let somebody else come in and carry on the same. Given that a united Cyprus would stop any foreign military being based there, efforts were made which resulted in Turkey invading. Obviously given these events, the UN stepped in and a Brit presence remained.

Cyprus is of immense strategic importance due to the Turkish largest border being to the north, Israel et al to the east, to the south - Suez canal and the rest of the med to the west.

Also an OTH (Over The Horizon) radar installation was built on the Troodos mountain which was used to monitor the missile tests on the Kamchatka peninsula. Near to the RAF Akrotiri station, there's a place known as the 'Aerial Farm', which is used to monitor comms throughout the mid-east. There was protests in 2002 when it was announced that several 'large' aerials would be built - this would mean that a large number of the other aerials would be dismantled through being outdated.

Officially there is no US presence on Cyprus however, if you're not near to RAF Akrotiri early on a morning, you can't see the U2 which isn't stationed there not taking off. (About 65 yards down the runway then the steepest climb I've ever seen)

 

[aurora]

Kurds were promised an independent nation-state in the 1920 Treaty of S

 

[anart]

Thanks for giving your explanation and perspective on this latest development, aurora - I was thinking that you would have interesting information to contribute, considering you live in Turkiye

 

[Alana]

There is an excellent book available in Cyprus about the Greek/Turkey problems over the years and how Kissenger used the problems to create the situation today. (Sorry can't remember the name but I would think any good bookshop will have a copy, my copy got lent out about 2 years ago, ain't seen it since).

I am aware of the Kissinger "involvement" in creating the Cyprus problem. In fact, it has been in my plans to "dig" and do a personal search on the Cyprus problem, and the Truth behind it. Since 1974 many lies and propaganda has been sold to us by our governments, the greek government etc, in order to conceal from the civilians what actually took place, and the traitors remain unpunished. There was a lot of betrayal by our own people, since the Cyprus occupation followed the Greek Junta's (and cypriots who were on their side seeking to be under the greek governemnt) attempt to overthrow the first elected by the people president of the Cyprus Independent government, Archbishop Makarios. So i'd appreciate the book's title or author for my search if you remember it.

Thanks paulnotbilly for the info, and really, how come you know so much of what's going on in Cyprus?

First of all it was not the Greco-Turkish war it was our Independence War.

Well, depends on which country you went to school at. We call that war the Asia Minor Catastrophe. Yes, a handful of greeks entered Turkey and tried to conquer more land there, as they couldn't get over the 1453 Constantinople Fall. Of course they lost and all the Greeks of Asia Minor were "made" to leave. But in my history books it was also named the Greko-Turkish war.

I chose the wikipedia entry because i wanted to provide the information from a neutral perspective, as i grew up in Cyprus, and though perhaps one of the less prejudiced here, i am sure i am too in a degree infected by the propaganda against Turkish government. I am sure that we learned history from the Greek perspective only. Especially yesterday, the 32nd anniversary of the Turkish invasion in the island, i live near the green line in nicosia, and there was a lot of celebrations in the North side and obits in the South. And i didn't want to let my feelings of the day "leak" through.

Thank you Aurora for your perspective.

 

[paulnotbilly]

There is an excellent book available in Cyprus about the Greek/Turkey problems over the years and how Kissenger used the problems to create the situation today. (Sorry can't remember the name but I would think any good bookshop will have a copy, my copy got lent out about 2 years ago, ain't seen it since).

I am aware of the Kissinger "involvement" in creating the Cyprus problem. In fact, it has been in my plans to "dig" and do a personal search on the Cyprus problem, and the Truth behind it. Since 1974 many lies and propaganda has been sold to us by our governments, the greek government etc, in order to conceal from the civilians what actually took place, and the traitors remain unpunished. There was a lot of betrayal by our own people, since the Cyprus occupation followed the Greek Junta's (and cypriots who were on their side seeking to be under the greek governemnt) attempt to overthrow the first elected by the people president of the Cyprus Independent government, Archbishop Makarios. So i'd appreciate the book's title or author for my search if you remember it.

Thanks paulnotbilly for the info, and really, how come you know so much of what's going on in Cyprus?

I spent several weeks there on detachment in the 90's, I was at RAF Akrotiri for four months in 2002. The amazon.co.uk link is:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1860647375/026-6407560-4431629?v=glance&n=266239&s=books&v=glance

The Cyprus Conspiracy: America, Espionage and the Turkish Invasion (Paperback) by Brendan O'Malley

Reviews
Synopsis
In 1974 the Greek colonels ousted the Greek-Cypriot leader of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, and Turkey retaliated by invading and seizing a third of the island. Cyprus remains split in two, like Berlin before the wall came down, bristling with troops and spying bases, and permanently policed by the United Nations. Henry Kissinger claimed he could do nothing to stop the coup because of the Watergate crisis, but this book presents evidence to support the view that it was no failure of American foreign policy, but the realization of a long-term plot. The authors describe the strategic reasons for Washington's need to divide the island. Their account encompasses an international cast of characters that includes Eden, Eisenhower, Nixon, Kissinger, Wilson, Callaghan, Grivas, and the leaders of the two halves of the divided island, Clerides and Denktas.

 

[aurora]

Paul not billy wrote :
In 1974 the Greek colonels ousted the Greek-Cypriot leader of Cyprus, Archbishop Makarios, and Turkey retaliated by invading and seizing a third of the island. Cyprus remains split in two, like Berlin before the wall came down, bristling with troops and spying bases, and permanently policed by the United Nations. Henry Kissinger claimed he could do nothing to stop the coup because of the Watergate crisis, but this book presents evidence to support the view that it was no failure of American foreign policy, but the realization of a long-term plot. The authors describe the strategic reasons for Washington's need to divide the island. Their account encompasses an international cast of characters that includes Eden, Eisenhower, Nixon, Kissinger, Wilson, Callaghan, Grivas, and the leaders of the two halves of the divided island, Clerides and Denktas.

There was treaty signed about Cyprus (by the way Cyprus was part of the ottoman Empire for some time in history and that's why there are turks living there and there have been intermarriages between the greeks and turks - actually the turks living there speak turkish with a greek accent). Well this treaty was signed by Greece, Britain and Turkiye all of who guaranteed the peace and safety of the turkish minority living on the island. (of course there were a lot of other items on the treaty but this was what we were told) There were massacres of turks including women and children by the cypriot militias (actually we saw these pictures on our newspapers back then) and Turkiye contacted Britain actually Turan Gunes (I think he was the foreign affairs minister) went to Britain to ask them to end this violence as they were a party to the above mentioned treaty. But Britain chose not to interfere or tried to calm down Turkiye etc. and Turkiye invaded on the 20th of July, 1974 . When was the ousting of Makarios before or after the invasion ? Back in 1958 (it was the late fifties if not 1958) there was some other conflict about Cyprus - as I was a child and participated in a protest meeting with my mother. (well I did not understand what was going on my mother took me along when I used to listen to greek songs on our radio and I liked the melodies and the phonetics of the language)

Actually it was a matter of honor for the turks to run in and save the turkish cypriots. If Greece had invaded the island first I don't know what the consequences would be - maybe another turco-greco or greco-turco war ? And who would benefit ? I really don't understand the fuss over Cyprus from Turkiye's point of view. I think we still think we are an empire (wishful thinking ) and try to act act like one. We can't let bygones be bygones. Well none of the nations act like really civilized people, we still act like tribes with an agenda of vendetta - eye for an eye etc. and want more and more . Greed is something I cannot understand, I really can't.
The aborigines of australia are much more civilized than us.

And Irini you are right when you said that we are being brainwashed by our politicians who are trying to use these issues to their advantage at every 4 or 5 years. But I am not brainwashed or anything, I like the greeks, they are peoples of the mediterranean, warm and welcoming just like us. And with a great history of civilization. I had watched a film called The Mediterrenea - about the invasion of a greek island during WW II by the Italians and in the end the islanders and the italians soldiers became friends and some of the soldiers did not want to leave the island at the end of the war. It was a lovely film showing the futility of the war.

 

[aurora]

ırini wrote : Well, depends on which country you went to school at. We call that war the Asia Minor Catastrophe. Yes, a handful of greeks entered Turkey and tried to conquer more land there, as they couldn't get over the 1453 Constantinople Fall. Of course they lost and all the Greeks of Asia Minor were "made" to leave. But in my history books it was also named the Greko-Turkish war.

Yes, our history books do not give the details, only a few sentences that's all. But later on I read books by authors who reserached the subject and wrote about it. Actually you could have won, the greek army was very near to Ankara, the sound of the greek cannon balls could be heard from Ankara where the Ataturk and the turkish government was residing. I think it was a twist of luck and the determination of a people who had no other chance but to win - or die. ıt was a no way out situation really. I also read about how the greeks were promised more armaments by Britain but they did not keep their promise. After the war the greeks living in anatolia were exchanged by the turks living in greece. But the turks here did not occupy the houses of the greeks who left. I had visited an old greek village in Fethiye in the southwest of turkiye, all those stone houses were still standing although battered down and the turkish ministry of culture was planning to restore those houses together with the two small churches in the village. Actually the restoration of the churches had started and I had taken some pictures. It was called the Ghost Town just to attract the tourists because there are turkish villagers living there. There are still greeks (and armenians too ) living in istanbul and I have school friends from both. The seaside town that I am residing at the present was a greek town (Fokaia) and the beach where people swim was a wine port where they loaded the wine barrels to their boats. The town was full of greek restaurants (meyhane).

 

[paulnotbilly]

And who would benefit ? I really don't understand the fuss over Cyprus from Turkiye's point of view.

If you look at the relation between the southern Turkish coast and Cyprus on a world map, you'll see that the Turkish fears were of a Greek invasion which would place Greek troops with the southern coast not being too far away - an ideal place to invade from.

 

[aurora]

Dear paulnobility,
you wrote
''If you look at the relation between the southern Turkish coast and Cyprus on a world map, you'll see that the Turkish fears were of a Greek invasion which would place Greek troops with the southern coast not being too far away - an ideal place to invade from.''

I know of this. But Turkiye has borders with Greece which is much more closer than Cyprus. Tırkiye has borders with Bulgaria, Russia, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Syria (the longest border ). So what do you do ? Expect attacks from every border and keep a very big army - that's what's being done. It's absurd from my point of view. What about Israel ? We are within the range of their missiles - with or without nuclear warheads and also they are a couple of hours away by ships or submarines to our ports in the south.

 

[Alana]

Thanks paulnotbilly. It sounds from the book synopsis that the book talks about stuff that many here know, but very few speak about. I'll have to read it though and much more books, to get to the bottom. And it stinks, i am sure. It is not a coincidence that after the war Cyprus received so much money as an aid from the US. Do you think it's because they felt sorry for the people who remained homeless? Of course not. What does money do? Gives people comforts, and as long as people are comfortable they don't go around seeking answers. Cypriots are so proud of how well they've done after the war, how prosper they became. What they don't understand is that they were put to sleep.

So, from what you say i gather you are british and work(ed) for the army. Some people in Cyprus think the British bases here are more of an "evil" than the Turkish occupation. I'd rate them as equally "unhealthy" for the island.

 

[Alana]

There was treaty signed about Cyprus (by the way Cyprus was part of the ottoman Empire for some time in history and that's why there are turks living there and there have been intermarriages between the greeks and turks - actually the turks living there speak turkish with a greek accent).

Cyprus, at one point or another in history, was under the occupation of EVERY countrypower in the area. The original Cyprus people are said to have come from the Euphrates region, as the ruins of the Neolithic village of Khoirokitia show, but no one knows for sure. The Cypriots, in order to survive and as a defense, did not marry people outside their ethnic group, and that only very rarely happened. The Turkish Cypriots here, especially older people who lived here before the occupation, speak the Greek Cypriot dialect. I don't think they would understand greek at all. Even Greek Cypriots don't speak with a greek accent :) Our language is a mixture of ancient greek, modern greek, italian, turkish, french, etc. Greeks don't understand us when we talk.

Well this treaty was signed by Greece, Britain and Turkiye all of who guaranteed the peace and safety of the turkish minority living on the island. (of course there were a lot of other items on the treaty but this was what we were told)

Actually the Zurich-London treaty was the one signed by Makarios, the Turkish, the Greeks and the British in order to make Cyprus an independent Country. Makarios did not want to sign it, but he was under pressure by the British, otherwise they would divide the island and give a part to the Turkish Cypriots. Makarios wanted the Greek and Turkish Cypriots to live together on the island and not separated. With this treaty, Greece, Turkey and England became the island's custodians. Makarios was almost killed by the Cypriots who did not want the Turkish Cypriots on the island.

There were massacres of turks including women and children by the cypriot militias (actually we saw these pictures on our newspapers back then) and Turkiye contacted Britain actually Turan Gunes (I think he was the foreign affairs minister) went to Britain to ask them to end this violence as they were a party to the above mentioned treaty. But Britain chose not to interfere or tried to calm down Turkiye etc. and Turkiye invaded on the 20th of July, 1974 . When was the ousting of Makarios before or after the invasion ? Back in 1958 (it was the late fifties if not 1958) there was some other conflict about Cyprus - as I was a child and participated in a protest meeting with my mother. (well I did not understand what was going on my mother took me along when I used to listen to greek songs on our radio and I liked the melodies and the phonetics of the language)

Yes. And there were Turkish Cypriots killing whole villages in Cyprus. Both the Greek Cypriot fanatics and the Turkish Cypriot fanatics were minority, because the rest of the people lived in harmony. But it was these minorities that brought the small war in 1963 (I think is the one you refer to) and later the occupation. Trust me, I have seen enough pictures of both greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots lying dead or buried in groups, to be disgusted, not by ethic groups, but by who I learned nowadays are called pathocrats. Makario's ousting was before the invasion, and the Turkish government claims that this is what brought the invasion.

Actually it was a matter of honor for the turks to run in and save the turkish cypriots. If Greece had invaded the island first I don't know what the consequences would be - maybe another turco-greco or greco-turco war ? And who would benefit ? I really don't understand the fuss over Cyprus from Turkiye's point of view

I don't think it was a matter of honor, but a matter of gain for the Turkish government. The problem was between the greek Cypriots who were against the government (inspired by Greek junta) and the newly born independent government of Cyprus. The thing is that the Us wanted bases in Cyprus, we wouldn't give them, they had the Turkish army come in, they got it. But nothing is on paper of course. How do we know? We've been talking with the Turkish Cypriots of the North. I've been to the North few times and I really like the Turkish Cypriot people. They also say that the Turkish government never did anything on their behalf and they feel that since the invasion they live under dictatorship. So from all this, the US benefited the Turkish government and the Greek Cypriot fascists. We are raising snakes among us.

But the point is, 32 years later and my mom and tens of thousands of others cannot go back to their homes, their towns. Bombs were falling next to them, and they were running for their lives. My grandmother even locked the door before she left her house. They were all sure they will return. They never did. She died of liver failure after she developed diabetes following the war. And all these for what? For the same reason EVERY war takes place, and civilians are being killed and kicked out of their houses: they are just disposable pawns on a chessboard, an endless game played by psychopaths.

And Irini you are right when you said that we are being brainwashed by our politicians who are trying to use these issues to their advantage at every 4 or 5 years. But I am not brainwashed or anything, I like the greeks, they are peoples of the mediterranean, warm and welcoming just like us. And with a great history of civilization. I had watched a film called The Mediterrenea - about the invasion of a greek island during WW II by the Italians and in the end the islanders and the italians soldiers became friends and some of the soldiers did not want to leave the island at the end of the war. It was a lovely film showing the futility of the war.

I like the Turkish people also and it is my dream to visit Constantinople/Istanbul one day. I studied with Turkish people and we indeed have so much in common. Cypriots are not very devoted Christians and nor are the Turkish people (of what they tell me) as devoted Muslims, so even that doesn't stand as a great difference. :) Greeks and Turks have been fighting each other and conquering each other for eons. Both cultures are intertwined with each other. Below my house in the old town, there are 5 churches and more mosques. When the bells ring, the hotza starts singing his prayer. I know it by heart. And I watched that film too. :)

apologies for diverging from the original subject

 

[paulnotbilly]

Thanks paulnotbilly. It sounds from the book synopsis that the book talks about stuff that many here know, but very few speak about. I'll have to read it though and much more books, to get to the bottom. And it stinks, i am sure. It is not a coincidence that after the war Cyprus received so much money as an aid from the US. Do you think it's because they felt sorry for the people who remained homeless? Of course not. What does money do? Gives people comforts, and as long as people are comfortable they don't go around seeking answers. Cypriots are so proud of how well they've done after the war, how prosper they became. What they don't understand is that they were put to sleep.

So, from what you say i gather you are british and work(ed) for the army. Some people in Cyprus think the British bases here are more of an "evil" than the Turkish occupation. I'd rate them as equally "unhealthy" for the island.

Hello Irini,
English & was in the RAF. I was last there in june/july 2002, there was protests at the aerial farm in Akrotiri village closely followed by the locals protesting at the idiots who were costing them lots of money as the village was out of bounds at the time. I know a lot people resent the Brit presence, in particular the army and it's unique way of not behaving itself - the reason being they are trained to fight, not to keep the peace which is what policemen are supposed to do.

A strange experience I had (off the track I know but to give everybody else an idea of what it's like from the RAF perspective), was whilst in a nightclub in either Paphos or Ayia Napa, late nov 1993. In the toilets were such messages as "go home you imperialist pigs." This did not stop the local lads from chatting up the english girls! I have to mention that I only have a couple of bad memories form my time there - one involved an Irish ranger the other a para.

I know a lot of local Cypriots have parttime jobs on the bases, if they were to close they would obviously have to find other jobs to cover the loss of earnings and the villages around the bases would lose a vital source of income - this mentioned whenever there are plans to close bases in the UK.

Regarding the coast of Turkey and the position of Cyprus in relation, I think the fear is that anybody staging through Cyprus could pick anywhere on a long coastline to invade. Turkey would have to position troops along the majority of the coast. As usual where there has been US/Brit influence, you will find the local population doesn't really benefit - only the ones in the pocket of the 'occupying force', usually corrupt politicians, businessmen etc.

On the amazon link, there's the option to purchase it with another book, one of the reviews for that book mentions it's been surpassed by
The Cyprus Conspiracy: America, Espionage and the Turkish Invasion.