Twin doctors give up sugar & fat in "unique experiment".

H-KQGE

Dagobah Resident
Unfortunately I don't have the time right now to dissect this, I thought it was worth posting since this article is in a well read UK newspaper. The experiment will be televised tonight on UK screens. (referred to in article)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2546975/One-twin-gave-sugar-gave-fat-Their-experiment-change-YOUR-life.html

One twin gave up sugar, the other gave up fat. Their experiment could change YOUR life
Twins Alexander and Chris Van Tulleken set out to find out which is worse
They were allowed to eat as much as they wanted and exercised the same
Alexander couldn't have carbs and Chris was allowed only a tiny bit of fat
By ALEXANDER VAN TULLEKEN
PUBLISHED: 00:22, 28 January 2014 | UPDATED: 02:12, 28 January 2014

By avoiding mirrors and scales you can fool yourself about encroaching middle-aged spread, but it's much harder when you have an identical twin with whom you can compare yourself.
My twin Chris and I have each gained and lost a lot of weight since we qualified as doctors 11 years ago.
At my lightest, I was 9½ st - skinny for someone who's 6ft. But then I moved to the U.S., my life became sedentary and in a few years I was 17½ st.

Chris was back in England at a normal weight of 12½ st and was appalled at my transformation. I was a fat version of him - a walking cautionary tale about what he could easily become.
Weight gain and obesity can be explained by lack of willpower and self-control or by genetic and hormonal factors. But when you have one thin twin and one fat twin, it's hard to blame any of those things.
I put it down to stress and the birth of my son, but those things didn't really explain what had changed.

I managed to lose quite a bit of that weight while working in the developing world, but now we're 35 and both gluttons we have to pay some serious attention to our expanding waistlines.
But here's the problem: despite being doctors - I also have a degree in public health - neither of us knew much about losing weight and eating healthily.

These topics fall between the cracks at medical school. Yes, we understood biochemistry and food metabolism, and knew a lot about the consequences of being overweight. But which diets work, why we eat too much and why losing weight is so hard don't sit within any medical speciality.

Superficially, it seems straightforward: we're all getting fat because we eat too much and don't exercise enough. Right? Well, not if you look at the debate about fat versus sugar now playing out.
For years it was thought fat was bad for you: it made you get fat, so low-fat food was good. But the 'fat is bad' dogma is being widely challenged. Carbohydrates, including sugar, are increasingly viewed as the evil, fattening, toxic ingredient.

But which really is worse for you? In a unique experiment for BBC's Horizon, Chris and I set out to find the answer by going on different diets for a month.
Identical twins like us are extremely useful in experiments because we have exactly the same genes. This means any changes we observed would be due to the diets and not genetics.
I went on a no-carbohydrate diet - essentially no sugar - and Chris went on an extremely low-fat diet.
We were allowed to eat as much as we wanted, except I couldn't have carbohydrates and Chris was allowed only the barest amount of fat - you need some fat to survive, so he restricted himself to food with less than 2 per cent fat.
However, in every other respect, including our exercise levels, our lives were similar, so any changes in our bodies at the end of the experiment would be down to the diets.

So, not only would the programme solve our weight problems, but the results - showing whether sugar or fat was worse - would solve everyone else's!
Let me tell you straight up that both of these diets were miserable. I thought I'd got the better deal: I could eat meat, fish, eggs and cheese.
But take away carbohydrates and the joy goes out of meals. And remove all fruit and veg - they all have carbs - and you get constipated. Though I was never hungry, I felt slow and tired, and my breath was terrible.
Chris on his low-fat diet didn't fare much better. He never felt full, so was constantly snacking, and like me he found that all the pleasure had gone out of meals: pasta without olive oil is boring.
There was one saving grace: each of the diets was easy to follow because they have just one simple rule. And I also had a pretty good reason to persevere: I really thought my low-carb diet would work and I'd end up slim and healthy a month later.
That's because the logic underpinning low-carb diets seems pretty convincing. The thinking is that carbohydrates raise your blood sugar and stimulate your body to produce insulin.
Insulin is the hormone needed to lower blood sugar, but it has another effect: it's a growth hormone.
It makes your body convert sugar to fat and makes that fat hard to use as a source of energy.


This can lead to what's called metabolic syndrome, a combination of abdominal obesity, high blood pressure and raised cholesterol and other fats in your blood. This, in turn, raises your risk of type 2 diabetes, heart disease, stroke, cancer and other serious health conditions.
This insulin hypothesis - that the key cause of people getting fat is elevated insulin, caused by eating carbs - undercuts the most basic idea about weight gain: that if you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight.
This is because, according to this theory, calories from carbohydrates are worse than calories from fats. They make you fatter and more likely to die of heart attacks. Conversely fat - even saturated fats - are getting a new lease of life as a superfood.
Well-respected scientists will tell you that if you cut out carbohydrates (thus lowering your insulin levels), it's almost impossible to gain weight.
These scientists believe reducing our sugar intake is the only way to solve the obesity epidemic.
But, as our results show, it's a bit more complicated than this. Chris and I each lost weight on our diets - I lost the most, a remarkable 9lb in one month - but the other results were not at all what we had expected.

One of the words you hear a lot when people talk about very low-carb diets is ketosis. This is where your body makes chemicals called ketones, which can act as fuel for the brain, which can't use fat.

But they're not great brain food. While I wasn't distracted by hunger for the month, I felt thick-headed, and this was most evident in a stock trading competition with Chris.
We started with £100,000 of fake money and he almost tripled what I earned over an hour.
The same was true for my physical performance. We spent a day with Nigel Mitchell, the head of nutrition at Team Sky Cycling.
Over a series of tests - all of which involved needles and long sessions of uphill cycling - he put us through our paces. Again Chris thrashed me in every test.
So, even though I seemed to be losing more weight, everything became harder to do.
And the tests we did to assess our levels of blood fats and risk of diabetes at the end of the diets revealed an astonishing and concerning truth about how my body had been fuelling itself in the absence of carbs.
While it was getting some energy from the protein in my diet, some was probably also coming from breaking down my own muscle.
Our experiment showed that you can lose a lot of weight, as I did, on a low-carb diet, but that isn't necessarily good for you.
You can lose weight on a low-fat diet, as Chris did - but over the long term unregulated consumption of sugar may also have negative health consequences.
The most interesting thing we found was that we were asking the wrong question. It's not which is worse for you, fat or sugar, but rather which foods are making so many of us gain weight and why?

The insulin hypothesis sounds scientific, but it doesn't explain what large, independent research studies over long periods of time have shown: low-carb diets don't work for everyone or even a majority of people.
For any diet to work you have to be able to keep it up for the rest of your life. I thought I would stick to low carbs after we finished, but having my first meal with carbs - and the boost in energy and alertness it gave me - reminded me that for a month I had been under-performing in all areas of my life, and I'd felt dreadful.
The diet industry is polarised around simple debates such as fat vs sugar because there are huge amounts of money at stake.
Farmers, food manufacturers, lobbyists, scientists and authors of diet books need to defend one or other side. Fortunately, you don't need to worry about any of that.
What we discovered is that the real reason we're all getting fatter isn't fat or sugar.
Furthermore, sugar alone isn't very addictive - only horses snack on sugar cubes and very few people gorge on boiled sweets or dry toast.
And fat isn't really addictive either: when did you last sneak a spoonful of butter from the fridge late at night?

The modern processed food industry knows this and that's why you're rarely sold the two separately - what is addictive is the combination.
We interviewed some amazing scientists who showed us that a combination of fat and sugar (such as in milk chocolate or ice cream) has a similar effect on your brain to cocaine.
Remove either and your tub of ice cream will be a lot less appetising and a lot less addictive. It'll have fewer calories, too.
So, what were our conclusions? If you want to lose weight it will be much easier if you avoid processed foods made with sugar and fat. These foods affect your brain in a completely different way from natural foods and it's hard for anyone to resist eating too much.
And any diet that eliminates fat or sugar will be unpalatable, hard to sustain and probably be bad for your health, too.

Sugar v Fat on BBC2 tomorrow at 9pm
 
Let me tell you straight up that both of these diets were miserable. I thought I'd got the better deal: I could eat meat, fish, eggs and cheese.

But take away carbohydrates and the joy goes out of meals. And remove all fruit and veg - they all have carbs - and you get constipated. Though I was never hungry, I felt slow and tired, and my breath was terrible.
Ok so first, he might be sensitive to eggs and/or cheese. In any case, dairy is a bad idea all around given what we know about it. Second, he probably did not become fully keto-adapted yet. He was experiencing the transitional side effects and most likely did not give his body enough time to adapt. A month is not enough for someone who hasn't been in ketosis for 35 years. Supplementing minerals would have helped a lot. Third, he may very well be experiencing detox side-effects as well. Fourth, they didn't specify where they got their meat - was it fed corn and grain, for example? That certainly has an effect.

One of the words you hear a lot when people talk about very low-carb diets is ketosis. This is where your body makes chemicals called ketones, which can act as fuel for the brain, which can't use fat. But they're not great brain food. While I wasn't distracted by hunger for the month, I felt thick-headed, and this was most evident in a stock trading competition with Chris.
All the research actually shows the opposite - that high fat diets are an *amazing* brain food, because that's what your brain craves - fat and cholesterol. The small sections that require glucose get it from gluconeogenesis (protein being converted to glucose by the liver). So again, I'm betting it's simply a case of not giving the body enough time to adapt.

And the tests we did to assess our levels of blood fats and risk of diabetes at the end of the diets revealed an astonishing and concerning truth about how my body had been fuelling itself in the absence of carbs.

While it was getting some energy from the protein in my diet, some was probably also coming from breaking down my own muscle.
They didn't specify how they arrived at that conclusion, though he did say "probably" - sounds like a guess. From what we know, the keto diet is in fact a muscle-sparing diet. Protein becomes a secondary energy source and muscle mass is actually preserved even when food is low!
See here for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/

So yeah, these guys apparently didn't do their research going into this experiment, and have made observations that a little bit of research would've explained. If that's how they practice medicine as well, I wouldn't want to have either of them as my doctor!

Edit: And all of the above is assuming this was even done in "good faith". There's a chance, since this is a mainstream publication, that there were ulterior motives involved too. It just seems like suspiciously too many conclusions contradict the facts, which aren't that hard to come by if they did any research at all.
 
Yup, pretty much my thoughts, as well, SAO. Other important factors not mentioned are:

-What kind of fat was he eating (also sources as you mentioned of animal products)?
-What percent of daily calories was from (should be mainly saturated animal) fats?
-How much of the lectins/anti-nutrients (e.g.casein in cheese and other dairy) in the food he was consuming gave adverst results?

We can also hypothesize that if the transition to ketosis was not done properly, he would be burning too much of his stored fat to burn as fuel, thus releasing way too much toxins stored in the old fat (including toxic/plastic/fake fats) from years of improper eating and environmental toxicity/exposure.

The performance claims are also nonsense. The overwhelming evidence in properly designed studies show the vast superiority of fat/ketone metabolism for all types of performance (particularly mental) AND long term health if the transition and adaptation period is correctly approached (and often, even when it's not, and the fat sources are also not optimal at all). Plus, besides the brain (and heart and other major organs) preferring ketone/fat metabolism, the brain is around 80% or so fat/cholesterol composition by dry weight - so besides an optimal energy source, fat and cholesterol are the raw material/building blocks of the brain AND the fat coating, i.e. insulation, for the myelinated nerves insuring proper electrical functioning.

Plus, like you said, it could very likely be a damage control operation as more and more people are becoming aware of optimal metabolism and health and REAL healthy eating.
 
SAO said:
So yeah, these guys apparently didn't do their research going into this experiment, and have made observations that a little bit of research would've explained. If that's how they practice medicine as well, I wouldn't want to have either of them as my doctor!

You can say that again! What a couple of airheads they sound like. And YIKES! There's TWO of them!
 
Kaigen said:
:D Oh my this so funny!
here some preview.

Their science is so bad one cannot help but think it is deliberate. It takes time to upregulate the DNA that transform energy mechanisms in the body. You just can't go from a lifetime of eating carbs to the high-fat/low-carb diet in a week or two and expect to function better right away. It's like many of the very flawed studies we've read only amplified for mass media. Like the "global warming" nonsense. Criminal, if you ask me.

Very, very, bad science.
 
Seems like something that would be praiseworthy for high school students, but is unprofessional and unscientific and wildly subjective coming from grown professionals. It comes across as they believe that their education somehow makes their subjective views an universal truth.
 
Thanks for posting this. When I saw the adverts for this show I was intruiged and considered watching it . I knew that it would be disinformation, and I expected something along the lines of 'everything in moderation' to be the outcome. Now I won't bother.
 
I think it is pathetic try from BBC to counter this documentary _http://www.cerealkillersmovie.com/ As LCHF/Paleo diet gains more ground, seems that pathocrats are under pressure and they have to keep people in line, which, so it seems, is getting more and more out of their control.
 
This is circumstantial but I started going to the gym a few months ago, and have never had problems while eating nothing but fatty meats. If anything, I'd say this diet helps to develop strength and muscle mass - I'm able to exercise harder and longer without exhausting my energy supply. It's probably easy to accidentally over-train on this diet since you actually need to remember to stop after a certain number of sets and reps, instead of just working out until you're tired. There's some good documentaries on existing hunter-gatherer tribes doing amazing physical feats (like chasing an animal down for hours and hours), etc. There's some famous body builders (mike mentzer, former Mr Olympia) and athletes that swear by this diet, and have seen dramatic improvement in performance as well.

In fact, Mike Mentzer is an interesting character - he developed a fascinating program where you work out a muscle group about once a month (and work out about once a week) and experience a lot of muscle growth. He proved it works on himself and his clients, and this was back in the 60's and 70's when people were not using steroids and growth hormones left and right like they do now. I'm not sure you could do that on a regular diet. It's possible that the muscle-sparing effects of the keto diet enables you to work out less regularly and continue to get results - your body apparently just picks up where it left off with little or no muscle loss in between. It flies in the face of the existing programs that have you work out each muscle group once or even twice a week.

I'd imagine the existing knowledge of what it means to be fit, and what it takes to get and stay fit is just as corrupted and incorrect as existing dietary recommendations. There are detractors who have shown spectacular results using very unconventional techniques, and it's especially interesting when they follow the keto diet as a foundation.
 
SAO said:
This is circumstantial but I started going to the gym a few months ago, and have never had problems while eating nothing but fatty meats. If anything, I'd say this diet helps to develop strength and muscle mass - I'm able to exercise harder and longer without exhausting my energy supply. It's probably easy to accidentally over-train on this diet since you actually need to remember to stop after a certain number of sets and reps, instead of just working out until you're tired. There's some good documentaries on existing hunter-gatherer tribes doing amazing physical feats (like chasing an animal down for hours and hours), etc. There's some famous body builders (mike mentzer, former Mr Olympia) and athletes that swear by this diet, and have seen dramatic improvement in performance as well.

I've noticed this too the last couple of times I went to the gym. (I just go once per week for a full body workout.) I can't seem to exhaust my muscles and "feel the burn" like I used to. I had to stop my reps just out of sheer boredom rather than fatigue. And there is very little soreness the next day. I also think that the PQQ supplement is responsible for this, for myself at least. I didn't notice this until I started taking it.

Here's a thread on PQQ if anyone hasn't seen it.
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33500.msg463364.html#msg463364
 
Laura said:
Kaigen said:
:D Oh my this so funny!
here some preview.

Their science is so bad one cannot help but think it is deliberate. It takes time to upregulate the DNA that transform energy mechanisms in the body. You just can't go from a lifetime of eating carbs to the high-fat/low-carb diet in a week or two and expect to function better right away. It's like many of the very flawed studies we've read only amplified for mass media. Like the "global warming" nonsense. Criminal, if you ask me.

Very, very, bad science.
Yes!, It really is criminal. And dangerous propaganda.

Hithere said:
Seems like something that would be praiseworthy for high school students, but is unprofessional and unscientific and wildly subjective coming from grown professionals. It comes across as they believe that their education somehow makes their subjective views an universal truth.
Yes. Well, "the universal" university come from medieval Catholic church, a long false universality (subjectivities of the elite imposed to the majorities). So maybe the university has to be taken as mere small schools that try to discern some universal, in the limitations of human life in 3d sts. I say this not against the knowledge that is taught in institutions of higher education, which may be a treasure that accumulates through the efforts of generations, but against the alleged universal authority of mere mortals. And even more when they make bad science.
 
Odyssey said:
I've noticed this too the last couple of times I went to the gym. (I just go once per week for a full body workout.) I can't seem to exhaust my muscles and "feel the burn" like I used to. I had to stop my reps just out of sheer boredom rather than fatigue. And there is very little soreness the next day. I also think that the PQQ supplement is responsible for this, for myself at least. I didn't notice this until I started taking it.

Here's a thread on PQQ if anyone hasn't seen it.
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33500.msg463364.html#msg463364
Thanks for sharing, Odyssey!
 
Im so glad this thread is on here. I've just started the keto-diet and my parents haven't let up about getting fatty pancreas and how wrong i am. To top it off, i just watched this documentary with my mother who I now know is gonna keep pushing for me. I was watching this documentary and it didn't feel right. But i'm glad there was a thread for this as the documentary started doing my head in when my mother acted as though i was continually in the wrong. But I'm sticking with it!!

I agree that it seemed odd that these two guys had done no research. The twin doing the fat diet consumed dairy also among other things and it didn't explain anything more specific on what they were actually doing in relation to prior research. Was an interesting picture of poor science and i can see myself in this regard a lot, however, this only strengthens me in continuing to read and learn about Keto and the nature of the world.

- Matt
 
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