Two Dark Man Dreams

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

This was the first time I used the Gestalt Process to interpret a dream. The dream occurred
sometime during late 1992.

Scene: My actual apartment where I lived in real life.

There’s a man coming to my apartment. He’s huge. Like a Sumo Wrestler. 500 pounds, dark hair, dark mustache. He wants to break my front door down. And he’s strong and determined enough to do so.

I’m dragging dressers, chairs, heavy armoires in front of the door — attempting to prevent him from getting inside. I know nothing will stop him, but I’m trying to block him anyway.

Sure enough. He breaks the door down — shoves all the heavy antique furniture aside and enters my apartment.

I awake breathing heavily, heart pounding, afraid. This was a nightmare dream.

I write down my dream in detail.

Next day I decide to try the Gestalt process - using the 2 Chair method.

I sit in one chair and I imagine him sitting down opposite me in another chair. Then I ask him who he is and what does he want.

Before I can change chairs, he responds. “I want to take over.”

I break out laughing like a loon. “Oh no, no, no! That will never do. If I let you take over, we would really be in trouble! But I can see that you need to express your energy. I’ll tell you what. I’ll take you out dancing. I can see that you need to express yourself physically.”

And my astrology chart flashed into my mind, and I recognized this guy as my Mars — in my 12th House.

So I did take him out dancing. And for about six months, I danced like a Nazi. Releasing all that backed-up Mars energy. After about 6 months of that, my dancing totally changed and returned to normal. Mars got his work out and expressed all that aggression in a healthy way. Or, at least, in a healthier way than many other ways I could have expressed his energy.

And no more dreams of 500 lb sumo wrestlers attempting to break down my front door again either. LOL

* * *
Second Dark Man Dream:

April - 2010

I’m sitting in the right front passenger seat of a car (American car - left side steering wheel). My sister, S, is sitting in the driver’s seat with both hands on the steering wheel. She’s looking straight ahead and is oblivious to all the activity going on with me and the Dark Man.

There’s a man standing outside the car - next to the driver’s side car door (Left side). The door is closed, but the window is rolled down. My sister doesn’t notice this guy at all.

The man reaches inside the left front door window — behind my sister’s back and taps me on my left shoulder.

He continues doing this (tapping me on my left shoulder) — stopping, then starting again — several times.

I am becoming irritated and annoyed. He is pestering me — on purpose. He knows he is annoying and irritating me — and he wants to do just that. He wants to provoke me into responding. And I realize that’s exactly what he wants.

I keep turning my head and looking at him — glaring at him — willing him to stop. But he simply ignores me. He wants to provoke me into doing something more than just glaring at him.

Finally, I am provoked beyond my tolerance and past my patience and, as I continue looking at him, I also reach up with my right hand and lift up his hand from my shoulder and toss it aside.

Pause of Silence. Then he smiles a predator smile and says -- “Gotcha.”
* * *
I awoke — heart pounding -- as from a nightmare.

What I thought was — I cannot use violence against violence. He really did “get” me. Because I reacted and retaliated rather than responding.

* * *

So those are some examples of using the Gestalt Process to interpret my dreams.

If anyone has other interpretations or sees something I've failed to see, please do let me know. Thank you for reading and I hope these examples will serve to inspire others to try this process for clarifying meanings and messages from their own dreams as well.

 

[Archaea]

I had a dark man dream last night:

I was back in collage (years 11 and 12 in Australia) or high school (years 7 through to 10 in Aus) and had moved into a house with my parents. The house was small on the inside but huge on the inside, I felt like I had lived there during my waking life, but I never did. In fact the house was located where a hardware store is in real life, across the road from a shopping mall.

In the dream I got home from school or from somewhere, I actually think I just floated into the dream. And I went inside, my dad was there and he went into his room, and I went into mine. Both our rooms were fairly close to the entrance of the house, and the house was huge beyond that, but I never went too far into it.

After doing some fly kicks across my room, I started to feel like their was an evil presence with me. I went back into the hallway and tried to close the front door, but it kept opening itself back open. I tried knocking on my dad's room door but there was no answer. I was getting scared, but I've had tons of these kinds of dreams, and I managed to get past the fear stage. So I yelled out something like "you're gonna die!" and kicked the front door.

Then I started trying to say "souls in heaven" but the "souls in" part was just a whisper and the "heaven" part had no sound. I was doing this because I figured demons don't like it. I kept trying to say this over and over but it was still a whisper.

Then from just a little deeper inside the house came a humanoid which was completely covered in a red robe, so I couldn't see any part of it. I grabbed it's arm, while still trying to say "souls in heaven" and started pulling it further into the house. Then I managed to say "heaven" in a whisper and that's when I woke up. I was actually saying it in real life while I was sleeping.

So I'm not sure whether trying to talk to this red robe figure using the two chairs is a good idea. Some people on the forum consider the predator to be an internal part of our sub-conscious, and if the house represents my subconscious (then it needs a lot of work :P) then that makes sense. But I feel like this figure was external to me, as in it's external to my soul.

But then maybe I should try it, it might help my communication skills and it might help me eliminate some sub-conscious programs or spirit attachments. So... Hmmm... I don't know.

 

[kalibex]

{snipped}

Finally, I am provoked beyond my tolerance and past my patience and, as I continue looking at him, I also reach up with my right hand and lift up his hand from my shoulder and toss it aside.

Pause of Silence. Then he smiles a predator smile and says -- “Gotcha.”
* * *
I awoke — heart pounding -- as from a nightmare.

What I thought was — I cannot use violence against violence. He really did “get” me. Because I reacted and retaliated rather than responding.

13 Twirling Triskeles, just out of curiosity, did you later try thinking upon what that different response (of yours) could have been?

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

I had a dark man dream last night:

I was back in collage (years 11 and 12 in Australia) or high school (years 7 through to 10 in Aus) and had moved into a house with my parents. The house was small on the inside but huge on the inside, I felt like I had lived there during my waking life, but I never did. In fact the house was located where a hardware store is in real life, across the road from a shopping mall.

In the dream I got home from school or from somewhere, I actually think I just floated into the dream. And I went inside, my dad was there and he went into his room, and I went into mine. Both our rooms were fairly close to the entrance of the house, and the house was huge beyond that, but I never went too far into it.

After doing some fly kicks across my room, I started to feel like their was an evil presence with me. I went back into the hallway and tried to close the front door, but it kept opening itself back open. I tried knocking on my dad's room door but there was no answer. I was getting scared, but I've had tons of these kinds of dreams, and I managed to get past the fear stage. So I yelled out something like "you're gonna die!" and kicked the front door.

Then I started trying to say "souls in heaven" but the "souls in" part was just a whisper and the "heaven" part had no sound. I was doing this because I figured demons don't like it. I kept trying to say this over and over but it was still a whisper.

Then from just a little deeper inside the house came a humanoid which was completely covered in a red robe, so I couldn't see any part of it. I grabbed it's arm, while still trying to say "souls in heaven" and started pulling it further into the house. Then I managed to say "heaven" in a whisper and that's when I woke up. I was actually saying it in real life while I was sleeping.

So I'm not sure whether trying to talk to this red robe figure using the two chairs is a good idea. Some people on the forum consider the predator to be an internal part of our sub-conscious, and if the house represents my subconscious (then it needs a lot of work :P) then that makes sense. But I feel like this figure was external to me, as in it's external to my soul.

But then maybe I should try it, it might help my communication skills and it might help me eliminate some sub-conscious programs or spirit attachments. So... Hmmm... I don't know.

Hi again Archaea

Just to let you know -- I'm working on a reply to your post. Hopefully, I can post it either later tonight or tomorrow night.

Thanks for your patience.

Cheers!

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

{snipped}

Finally, I am provoked beyond my tolerance and past my patience and, as I continue looking at him, I also reach up with my right hand and lift up his hand from my shoulder and toss it aside.

Pause of Silence. Then he smiles a predator smile and says -- “Gotcha.”
* * *
I awoke — heart pounding -- as from a nightmare.

What I thought was — I cannot use violence against violence. He really did “get” me. Because I reacted and retaliated rather than responding.

13 Twirling Triskeles, just out of curiosity, did you later try thinking upon what that different response (of yours) could have been?

Aloha Kalibex

Good point. I'm thinking I need to work some more on this dream because it isn't resolved for me at all. I, too, would like to find out how I could have responded to that guy tapping me on the shoulder in order to annoy and irritate me.

I also want to work on the "driver" since that particular sister was the perfect symbol for my dream mind to use to represent the part of my mind which is oblivious to the predator.

Thanks for reminding me - and inspiring me - to address this unresolved issue. I'll post the results after I do so.

Blessings!

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

I had a dark man dream last night:

I was back in collage (years 11 and 12 in Australia) or high school (years 7 through to 10 in Aus) and had moved into a house with my parents. The house was small on the inside but huge on the inside, I felt like I had lived there during my waking life, but I never did. In fact the house was located where a hardware store is in real life, across the road from a shopping mall.

In the dream I got home from school or from somewhere, I actually think I just floated into the dream. And I went inside, my dad was there and he went into his room, and I went into mine. Both our rooms were fairly close to the entrance of the house, and the house was huge beyond that, but I never went too far into it.

After doing some fly kicks across my room, I started to feel like their was an evil presence with me. I went back into the hallway and tried to close the front door, but it kept opening itself back open. I tried knocking on my dad's room door but there was no answer. I was getting scared, but I've had tons of these kinds of dreams, and I managed to get past the fear stage. So I yelled out something like "you're gonna die!" and kicked the front door.

Then I started trying to say "souls in heaven" but the "souls in" part was just a whisper and the "heaven" part had no sound. I was doing this because I figured demons don't like it. I kept trying to say this over and over but it was still a whisper.

Then from just a little deeper inside the house came a humanoid which was completely covered in a red robe, so I couldn't see any part of it. I grabbed it's arm, while still trying to say "souls in heaven" and started pulling it further into the house. Then I managed to say "heaven" in a whisper and that's when I woke up. I was actually saying it in real life while I was sleeping.

So I'm not sure whether trying to talk to this red robe figure using the two chairs is a good idea. Some people on the forum consider the predator to be an internal part of our sub-conscious, and if the house represents my subconscious (then it needs a lot of work :P) then that makes sense. But I feel like this figure was external to me, as in it's external to my soul.

But then maybe I should try it, it might help my communication skills and it might help me eliminate some sub-conscious programs or spirit attachments. So... Hmmm... I don't know.

Hi again Archaea

Just to let you know -- I'm working on a reply to your post. Hopefully, I can post it either later tonight or tomorrow night.

Thanks for your patience.

Cheers!

Hi Archaea -- Apologies for long reply delay.

You might want to start a conversation with some other “part” of your dream instead of confronting the “red robe figure”. You could choose the house or your dad to practice this technique before attempting to tackle the “red robe figure”, yes?

As for the “red robe figure” being external to your soul rather than an inner aspect of your own psyche, it is a possibility.

If you decided you wanted to have a conversation with the “red robe figure”, you might want to have an ally with you rather than going it alone if it feels too scary. That’s why there are therapists — to help people confront frightening or overwhelming issues.

You didn’t actually say the “red robe figure” felt frightening or scary to you. You just said you felt an evil presence — and it’s not clear that the “red robe figure” is the evil presence you’re referring to in your 3rd paragraph. So I may be putting words into your mouth by incorrectly connecting “scary” and “frightening” to “evil”.

Evil doesn’t always elicit fear. Sometimes it’s difficult to not giggle at evil. It is so pathetic I have to refrain from laughing out loud in order to not antagonize and provoke it further.

As for spirit attachments, have you read through the Patrick Rodriguez thread yet?

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33064.0.html


Good luck with your dream work, Archaea. As I mentioned in my Reply #2 to the Gestalt Dream Therapy Process, I prefer to begin these conversations as more of a fun game. As the conversation develops, it may become quite serious; however, that’s just a natural organic progression.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

{snipped}

Finally, I am provoked beyond my tolerance and past my patience and, as I continue looking at him, I also reach up with my right hand and lift up his hand from my shoulder and toss it aside.

Pause of Silence. Then he smiles a predator smile and says -- “Gotcha.”
* * *
I awoke — heart pounding -- as from a nightmare.

What I thought was — I cannot use violence against violence. He really did “get” me. Because I reacted and retaliated rather than responding.

13 Twirling Triskeles, just out of curiosity, did you later try thinking upon what that different response (of yours) could have been?

* * *
Ooops! I think I messed up these quotes a bit. Below is my first reply to Kalibex -- below that is my second reply to Kalibex.

Aloha Kalibex

Good point. I'm thinking I need to work some more on this dream because it isn't resolved for me at all. I, too, would like to find out how I could have responded to that guy tapping me on the shoulder in order to annoy and irritate me.

I also want to work on the "driver" since that particular sister was the perfect symbol for my dream mind to use to represent the part of my mind which is oblivious to the predator.

Thanks for reminding me - and inspiring me - to address this unresolved issue. I'll post the results after I do so.

Blessings!

* * *
Hi Kalibex

A couple of thoughts have come up within the past few days.

One thought relates to the present situation between the US and Russia vis-a-vis the Ukraine. The US is supporting, encouraging and funding the Ukraine Nazi Right Sector’s use of violence in order to provoke and entrap Russia (Putin) into re-acting with violence. And Putin is refusing to fall into the US trap.

I see that Mr. Putin is presenting us all with a good example of using thoughtful strategy rather than knee-jerk reaction. Similar to Carlos Castaneda techniques of dealing with petty tyrants, yes?

Second thought — making use of “sound” rather than physical force — i.e., tossing the dark man’s hand off my shoulder in annoyance. I have found words to be far less effective than sounds when dealing with predatory behavior in certain cases.

It’s impossible to be “reasonable with evil”. You just cannot “reason” with evil. There’s nothing at all “reasonable” about evil. You can present facts and evidence and videos and photos until the cows come home and, as the i-Ching says, it cannot penetrate through to pigs & fishes. You just “throw-yourself-away” and waste your energy.

So - to bypass all that argumentation and energy depleting conversation, I just make sounds. There’s a certain intention that carries the sound. It’s similar to ringing Tibetan Bells throughout one’s space in order to “clear” out negative energies. It’s a Feng Shui thing. If you’ve ever heard the sound of Tibetan Bells, you realize that the sound is so piercing, you can understand why these energies would flee immediately. Some past anecdotal experiences have illustrated that sounds are very effective at clearing out 4D-STS denizens as well as disappearing a few 3D predators as well.

Thanks Kalibex for reminding and inspiring me to review this particular Dark Man Dream. I feel much more resolved about that dream now. If I have another similar dream, I intend to remember what I’ve learned about using “sounds” to foil the predator.

I have not yet dealt with the sister sitting behind the steering wheel, however. She might have some good advice for me on how to deal with this Dark Man. I didn't think to ask her until typing this just now.

Cheers!

 

[Sol Logos]

This was the first time I used the Gestalt Process to interpret a dream. The dream occurred
sometime during late 1992.

Scene: My actual apartment where I lived in real life.

There’s a man coming to my apartment. He’s huge. Like a Sumo Wrestler. 500 pounds, dark hair, dark mustache. He wants to break my front door down. And he’s strong and determined enough to do so.

I’m dragging dressers, chairs, heavy armoires in front of the door — attempting to prevent him from getting inside. I know nothing will stop him, but I’m trying to block him anyway.

Sure enough. He breaks the door down — shoves all the heavy antique furniture aside and enters my apartment.

I awake breathing heavily, heart pounding, afraid. This was a nightmare dream.

I write down my dream in detail.

Next day I decide to try the Gestalt process - using the 2 Chair method.

I sit in one chair and I imagine him sitting down opposite me in another chair. Then I ask him who he is and what does he want.

Before I can change chairs, he responds. “I want to take over.”

I break out laughing like a loon. “Oh no, no, no! That will never do. If I let you take over, we would really be in trouble! But I can see that you need to express your energy. I’ll tell you what. I’ll take you out dancing. I can see that you need to express yourself physically.”

And my astrology chart flashed into my mind, and I recognized this guy as my Mars — in my 12th House.

So I did take him out dancing. And for about six months, I danced like a Nazi. Releasing all that backed-up Mars energy. After about 6 months of that, my dancing totally changed and returned to normal. Mars got his work out and expressed all that aggression in a healthy way. Or, at least, in a healthier way than many other ways I could have expressed his energy.

And no more dreams of 500 lb sumo wrestlers attempting to break down my front door again either. LOL

* * *
Second Dark Man Dream:

April - 2010

I’m sitting in the right front passenger seat of a car (American car - left side steering wheel). My sister, S, is sitting in the driver’s seat with both hands on the steering wheel. She’s looking straight ahead and is oblivious to all the activity going on with me and the Dark Man.

There’s a man standing outside the car - next to the driver’s side car door (Left side). The door is closed, but the window is rolled down. My sister doesn’t notice this guy at all.

The man reaches inside the left front door window — behind my sister’s back and taps me on my left shoulder.

He continues doing this (tapping me on my left shoulder) — stopping, then starting again — several times.

I am becoming irritated and annoyed. He is pestering me — on purpose. He knows he is annoying and irritating me — and he wants to do just that. He wants to provoke me into responding. And I realize that’s exactly what he wants.

I keep turning my head and looking at him — glaring at him — willing him to stop. But he simply ignores me. He wants to provoke me into doing something more than just glaring at him.

Finally, I am provoked beyond my tolerance and past my patience and, as I continue looking at him, I also reach up with my right hand and lift up his hand from my shoulder and toss it aside.

Pause of Silence. Then he smiles a predator smile and says -- “Gotcha.”
* * *
I awoke — heart pounding -- as from a nightmare.

What I thought was — I cannot use violence against violence. He really did “get” me. Because I reacted and retaliated rather than responding.

* * *

So those are some examples of using the Gestalt Process to interpret my dreams.

If anyone has other interpretations or sees something I've failed to see, please do let me know. Thank you for reading and I hope these examples will serve to inspire others to try this process for clarifying meanings and messages from their own dreams as well.

Another way to look at it is from the perspective that the dark man is your shadow (a Jungian concept), the things about your current condition that doesn't have the light of your awareness shining on it for now. In that sense the dark man has already got you because all those things about you that you don't want to see exert the most control on you. It's like an invisible rope that pull us, first we need to see it before we can even successfully untie it.

The sumo figure is like saying its very large, you can't avoid these things any further - it's going to break into your awareness (house) despite all the barriers (furniture) you put between it and you. The fact the dark man came back, and who's presence annoys you means there's been little integration in a sense of becoming more whole, you're annoyed (harbouring deeper anger), it possibly means the dancing didn't change its presence, it put it aside but in fact it exerted more influence on you - its influence has now "possessed" you, or owns you - well so the 2nd dream appears to indicate.

The conclusion that by giving it attention you made an error, points to why it's actually taking a firm grip of you - ignoring your shadow, what you don't like about yourself allows what you don't like about yourself to grow while you're not being attentive to it. I feel your conclusion is in error but this is my interpretation.

I would say being a man (dark man) has some connection to the qualities perhaps in your father you don't want to see in yourself. I would ask myself in what way does / did my father annoy me and how am I exhibiting these behaviours in my life? How did these qualities of my dad make me feel?

For me, I found that I act like my dad a lot - in times of stress, the very things that made me feel like I didn't matter to him, I act out on and strain my own family. A lot of work for me there!

Anyway, perhaps you'll find something relevant to you in that interpretation.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Hi alkhemst

Thanks for your reply. I hope you don't mind - and that it will be easier for you to follow - if I break up your reply into sections to which I can respond?

Another way to look at it is from the perspective that the dark man is your shadow (a Jungian concept), the things about your current condition that doesn't have the light of your awareness shining on it for now. In that sense the dark man has already got you because all those things about you that you don't want to see exert the most control on you. It's like an invisible rope that pull us, first we need to see it before we can even successfully untie it.

As you say, and I agree, in Jungian theory, the dark man represents my shadow. In the first dream (the Sumo Wrestler figure), the inner vision of Mars came up for me as the energy this figure represented.

In astrological theory, Mars, as an archetypal symbol, represents outflowing yang or male energy — the Animus in Jungian terms. Some key words associated with Mars are physical movement & activities, physical exercise such as sports, the sex drive, anger, aggression, war, and pursuing what we want in life.

Interestingly, Mars is hidden away in my 12th House — representing, among other things, the womb experience.

I don’t want to go all astrological here so I’ll just say that I definitely have some major emotional issues regarding Family, but I’m unsure if this is the appropriate thread to bring up those issues.

You’ve helped me to see that I do need to address these issues instead of just cavalierly sweeping them under the carpet. Thank you so much. I love this Forum for precisely this aspect. That the members are so kind and willing to point out for us how we are failing to SEE ourselves as others can see us. It’s the kindest and most valuable service you can offer me and I so appreciate your willingness to do so.

[quote author=alkhemst]
The sumo figure is like saying its very large, you can't avoid these things any further - it's going to break into your awareness (house) despite all the barriers (furniture) you put between it and you. The fact the dark man came back, and who's presence annoys you means there's been little integration in a sense of becoming more whole, you're annoyed (harbouring deeper anger), it possibly means the dancing didn't change its presence, it put it aside but in fact it exerted more influence on you - its influence has now "possessed" you, or owns you - well so the 2nd dream appears to indicate.
[/quote]

Yes again. To every point you’ve made. Good observations. The dancing was a temporary fix. An attempt to let this shadow express itself in a “healthy” way. Or so I originally believed. You’ve helped me to see that “expressing” energy is not synonymous with “integrating” energy. Thank you. I thought that first Dark Man represented my own unexpressed energy and that if I allowed him to express in a healthy way, all would be resolved. Wrong.

I recall reading some advice Anart gave to another member of the Forum about a similar situation. The Forum Member felt s/he needed to exercise physically to run out some uncomfortable energy. Anart advised the Member to just “feel” that energy instead.

After reading Anart’s suggestion, I decided to try it out myself. My first opportunity came a few days later — I was sensing some anxiety in the pit of my stomach. So I just stopped and concentrated on “feeling” the sensation. And as soon as I got in touch with the anxious sensation, it immediately disappeared. I said, “Wait. I haven’t finished feeling you yet!” I felt cheated. I really wanted to experience the anxiety fully and “feel” it long enough to get a taste for all its aspects. I repeated this exercise 3 times. And each time the feeling/sensation would flee as soon as I concentrated on feeling it rather than trying to figure out what it was or what was causing it.

That anxiety hasn’t returned during these past months. This is an anxiety I’ve felt for years and years. It would happen whenever I lay down to take a nap or upon awakening in the morning if I tried to stay in bed. I’d feel compelled to get up. Don’t know why.

Do you think this disappearing anxious sensation might be similar to my Dark Man dreams? In that I haven’t really addressed or resolved the issue permanently? That it’s just gone deeper underground to re-surface later?


[quote author=alkhemst]
The conclusion that by giving it attention you made an error, points to why it's actually taking a firm grip of you - ignoring your shadow, what you don't like about yourself allows what you don't like about yourself to grow while you're not being attentive to it. I feel your conclusion is in error but this is my interpretation.
[/quote]

This may sound weird, but I’m so happy to have someone point out that my conclusion is in error. I love changing my mind. It’s so liberating. My refrain is — I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. How can I learn or change if I can’t hold the possibility that I don’t know what I think I know? All my knowledge is subjective. I think I’m going to find that often what I think I know to be true is actually untrue. That’s the point of this Forum — to hold up a more objective mirror to each other. My own mirror is way too subjective for me to see my selves as others see them. Thank you alkhemst.


[quote author=alkhemst]
I would say being a man (dark man) has some connection to the qualities perhaps in your father you don't want to see in yourself. I would ask myself in what way does / did my father annoy me and how am I exhibiting these behaviours in my life? How did these qualities of my dad make me feel?
[/quote]

Oh wow. Thanks again. I hadn’t even considered this possibility — about my father annoying me & that I exhibit those same behaviors in my own life or how those qualities made/make me feel? I’m so excited about exploring this.

Oh my. I’m only now just realizing that my father is a complete enigma to me. Totally hidden away from my conscious awareness. I don’t know how I actually feel about him.

It’s a little more complicated than that. I don’t know who my biological father is. I only know the man who stood in as my father because he married my mother — because she was pregnant with me — to save her reputation. This was during the 1940’s when women having babies out of wedlock was more frowned upon, yes?

I’d been focusing so much on my mother issues all my life, I totally ignored and dismissed my father as entirely irrelevant. Ouch. I didn’t even realize I’d done that. Even worse — that’s how I feel about men in general — that they’re basically irrelevant. I’m so sorry. It feels so mean to think that and I apologize to you because you’re a man and you’ve been so courteous to help me out here. Please don’t take it personally. It’s obviously my issue to work out and has nothing to do with you specifically or men in general.

Seems as if you’ve nailed it about these Dark Man dreams representing a shadow aspect of myself that I’ve been ignoring all these years. Thank you so much alkhemst. You’ve helped me tremendously by addressing several points to which I was oblivious. It’s making me laugh at myself — that I could be so oblivious to the obvious. LOL

[quote author=alkhemst]
For me, I found that I act like my dad a lot - in times of stress, the very things that made me feel like I didn't matter to him, I act out on and strain my own family. A lot of work for me there!

Anyway, perhaps you'll find something relevant to you in that interpretation.[/quote]

You know, I think my conscious mind was only able to handle more superficial interpretations at the times I had these dreams. But you’ve got me thinking that I’m ready to dig more deeply into areas I’ve skated over with such ease.

No. It’s not as cute and simple as I thought it was. It’s a relief to me to know that there’s some real “meat” to this and I’m actually excited and looking forward to diving into the deeper waters and discovering what’s hidden in my inner swamp.

Oh, I see. There’s some program running that I shouldn’t make a big deal about things — assign any importance to any of this. Aha! Sweep it all under the rug. Not make a mountain out of a mole hill. Not take it so seriously. Brush it off. Whoah! A multitude of platitudes. Eeeek! Ignore it and it’ll disappear and go away. Darn. I didn’t even know I was operating that way. In fact, I find it sad when I see others operating this way.

So, yes. As you say, what I view as reprehensible in others is precisely what I am doing myself. It’s almost hilarious if it wasn't so debilitating. So similar to that proud, vain woman with the fancy hat — all covered in lice — unbeknownst to her.

If you or anyone has a suggestion about how I should pursue resolving these issues, I would very much appreciate any advice.

What occurs to me to do - unless someone has a better suggestion - is to assign myself the task of writing (not typing) whatever thoughts and feelings I can uncover with respect to my father(s). OMG. A bunch of memories are already surfacing even as I’m typing this.

But first - a cigarette break.

Thank you again alkhemst for your valuable observations. You’ve removed enough obstructing logs from the log jam to free up the waters to flow. Good thing we have EE so I don’t cause a flood. LOL Interesting that the element “water” is usually associated with “emotions” and I’m using water metaphors.

Wow. I think I have some great material to work on now thanks to your feedback.

Cheers!

Edit: Fixed quotes

 

[Sol Logos]

If you or anyone has a suggestion about how I should pursue resolving these issues, I would very much appreciate any advice.

What occurs to me to do - unless someone has a better suggestion - is to assign myself the task of writing (not typing) whatever thoughts and feelings I can uncover with respect to my father(s). OMG. A bunch of memories are already surfacing even as I’m typing this.

I reckon that's a great suggestion. Writing whatever comes up without self judgement is really useful. That's what the shadow is all about, if we personify it, it wants to be seen fully "warts and all" without judgement. For me there's always some deep feelings that just come up when I write freely and not judge what comes up, also a lot of memories connected to them I mostly was unaware of before too. Maybe write about how you really feel about men, what men represent to you, what men have done to you and how they've made you feel about yourself... like what would you write if no one was around anymore to tell you "it's wrong / bad and you shouldn't say things like that" or similar.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

If you or anyone has a suggestion about how I should pursue resolving these issues, I would very much appreciate any advice.

What occurs to me to do - unless someone has a better suggestion - is to assign myself the task of writing (not typing) whatever thoughts and feelings I can uncover with respect to my father(s). OMG. A bunch of memories are already surfacing even as I’m typing this.

I reckon that's a great suggestion. Writing whatever comes up without self judgement is really useful. That's what the shadow is all about, if we personify it, it wants to be seen fully "warts and all" without judgement. For me there's always some deep feelings that just come up when I write freely and not judge what comes up, also a lot of memories connected to them I mostly was unaware of before too. Maybe write about how you really feel about men, what men represent to you, what men have done to you and how they've made you feel about yourself... like what would you write if no one was around anymore to tell you "it's wrong / bad and you shouldn't say things like that" or similar.

alkhemst: Thanks alkhemst. I'm looking forward to hearing what this shadow aspect has to tell me.

What would I write if no one was around to tell me it's wrong/bad and I shouldn't say things like that? LOL
No problem. The inner judge has to sit on the sidelines for these conversations. There is an "observer" during these processes - but she is neutral and doesn't judge. In these processes, there can't really be a "right" or "wrong". There's just a what is - is.

Oh dear. You're right! That poor little Shadow does want to be seen fully. And here I've been avoiding looking at him all these years. No wonder he's been attempting to get my attention in my dreams. It brings tears to realize how I've been so rude and considered him irrelevant. Ouch. As I type this, I am feeling a strong desire to hear him out -- and let him out of his prison. Poor guy.

Side Note: Interesting synchronicity that I posted my former reply about my father(s) on Father's Day, yes?

* * *
Obyvatel: And thank you Obyvatel for editing my quotes. I checked back in the Bizarro World board about posting quotes, so I'll practice there on how to separate one long quote into several separate sections. I should have done that first -- before posting my reply. Apologies for my negligence & causing unnecessary extra effort on your part. I forgot to heed my friend's advice which she gave to me when I used to apologize for messing up by saying, "I'm sorry." She'd say, "Don't be sorry. Just be more aware." Good advice.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Two days ago (March 30, 2015) I began writing about these thoughts — which I will post below.

But before I do, I also want to address kalibex and alkhemst since they both were kind enough to ask me some pertinent questions and give me some good advice with respect to further addressing these Dark Man Dreams as Shadow Aspects of my own psyche.

*****

{snipped}
Finally, I am provoked beyond my tolerance and past my patience and, as I continue looking at him, I also reach up with my right hand and lift up his hand from my shoulder and toss it aside.

Pause of Silence. Then he smiles a predator smile and says -- “Gotcha.”
* * *
I awoke — heart pounding -- as from a nightmare.

What I thought was — I cannot use violence against violence. He really did “get” me. Because I reacted and retaliated rather than responding.

13 Twirling Triskeles, just out of curiosity, did you later try thinking upon what that different response (of yours) could have been?

Aloha kalibex
Good point. I'm thinking I need to work some more on this dream because it isn't resolved for me at all. I, too, would like to find out how I could have responded to that guy tapping me on the shoulder in order to annoy and irritate me.

Hi alkhemst —
If you or anyone has a suggestion about how I should pursue resolving these issues, I would very much appreciate any advice.

What occurs to me to do - unless someone has a better suggestion - is to assign myself the task of writing (not typing) whatever thoughts and feelings I can uncover with respect to my father(s). OMG. A bunch of memories are already surfacing even as I’m typing this.

I reckon that's a great suggestion. Writing whatever comes up without self judgement is really useful. That's what the shadow is all about, if we personify it, it wants to be seen fully "warts and all" without judgement. For me there's always some deep feelings that just come up when I write freely and not judge what comes up, also a lot of memories connected to them I mostly was unaware of before too. Maybe write about how you really feel about men, what men represent to you, what men have done to you and how they've made you feel about yourself... like what would you write if no one was around anymore to tell you "it's wrong / bad and you shouldn't say things like that" or similar.

Thanks alkhemst. I'm looking forward to hearing what this shadow aspect has to tell me.

What would I write if no one was around to tell me it's wrong/bad and I shouldn't say things like that? LOL
No problem. The inner judge has to sit on the sidelines for these conversations. There is an "observer" during these processes - but she is neutral and doesn't judge. In these processes, there can't really be a "right" or "wrong". There's just a what is - is.

Oh dear. You're right! That poor little Shadow does want to be seen fully. And here I've been avoiding looking at him all these years. No wonder he's been attempting to get my attention in my dreams. It brings tears to realize how I've been so rude and considered him irrelevant. Ouch. As I type this, I am feeling a strong desire to hear him out -- and let him out of his prison. Poor guy.

alkhemst and kalibex —

This post is in response to previous advice and questions you posed last year. Hopefully, my answer will help to complete the incomplete and hanging thread I left dangling because I failed to achieve any resolution when I attempted to do the Work on this Dark Man Dream back in June 2014.

I apologize for how long it has taken me to bring closure, but I was unable to get past a snag in the process until I read Archaea’s post in the C’s Session 21 March 2015 thread which prompted me to take up addressing the Dark Man in that dream again.

* * * *
Archaea: First of all I want to thank you for your comments on the 21 March 2015 Cassiopaean Session.

Link on Page 17 - Reply #249
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,37713.240.html

Your post inspired me to take up where I left off last June looking at my Shadow Side. I’ve typed up some of the notes I made and posted them below.

I realize that it looks as if I’m being really “hard” on myself in the last several paragraphs. Basically, a very un-sympathetic attitude towards this aspect of my own psyche. And that could very well be a truer, more objective view. I could be fooling myself that I’m not being hard on “me” — that I am being extremely hard on my Predator’s Mind instead. So more WORK on my part may still be required in order to move past this present emotional and mental attitude — raise the FRV so to speak (if I understand the FRV concept correctly).


But I would need someone else’s feedback about that because I’m unable to see for myself whether I need to continue on or let it rest for now.

At any rate — here are the notes — Apologies for the ugliness and the length — and since I’m also not the best judge of “signal to noise ratio” with respect to my own communications, perhaps someone could comment on that if you feel so inclined. I appreciate your help folks. Thanks in advance.

OK — here goes . . .

This Dark Man character is a projection of an aspect of my “self” that I haven’t wanted to “own”, take responsibility for, or acknowledge.

He was “showing” me what I’ve been doing to others — attempting to get their attention by annoying, provoking, poking, and irritating them.

I found my facial expression was one of “disgust” when I recognized this as a hidden aspect of my inner psyche. Hidden from my own observation, yes. But surely not hidden from others when it reared its ugly head and struck out in their direction.

And my own reactions to seeing this aspect of myself were — Ick! Mean! Cruel! Covert! Antagonistic! Resentful! Creepy - disgusting - distasteful - elite superiority - grandiose - judgmental — sitting here on my little Queen’s Throne dispensing verdicts & edicts — commands & demands as if I’m the Queen of the Universe. What a self-righteous little perfectionist prig!

My attitude toward it was — Eeeeeew! I’m just another irritating little Petty Tyrant — using my stolen power in order to put others down and thinking I’m better, smarter, righter than they are. What a grotesque little s**t.

This is the “me” I see in others. This is the “me” I project onto others. I’ve refused to own this Shadow Aspect of my own psyche. I’ve dissociated and disowned it and cast it onto others — refusing to acknowledge its presence within myself.

Well, that realization was certainly a surprise. And the non-funny joke is on me — again! :O :P

The weirdest part is that I’m actually grateful and glad to find this out about myself. It knocks me down several notches off my self-made pedestal and shoots huge arrows into my immense vanity and sense of entitlement.

This makes me see how I’ve been lying to myself like crazy. Makes me see how totally and enormously I’ve erred and refused to see my self objectively. OMGosh! What a lot of false pride. And here I’ve believed I didn’t have any pride at all. What a crock! I just want to slap myself off my damn high horse. It’s actually a lot of self-conceit.

I can’t even stand myself. And I “think” this is the correct attitude towards this behavior. But who knows? What makes me think I can think with the way I think? I’m just feeling a stubborn inner refusal to be reasonable with my own evil — and so I call it.

It’s reprehensible and not OK. I need to discipline this shadow side of myself. It’s totally outrageous. I feel a huge resounding NO inside myself towards this behavior. Like I might say to a child who is mis-behaving or throwing a tantrum. This is like an infantile ego state — the world revolves around me - me - me — and it’s all about narcissistic little me! Yuck! It’s so tyrannical and spoilt and self-centered and uppity and needs a good smack down.

I refuse to condone or allow this tyranny to continue. I want to tell it to go to its room for a time-out and not come out until it realizes and understands its transgressions are off limits and won’t be permitted any longer. It needs to really grok that it’s on a very short leash and I will gag or muzzle it if it tries to spew its vitriol.

I’m watching it watching me. I’m on alert for the least sign of it attempting to rear its head and take over. I’m watching it like a hawk — with narrowed eyes — ready to bring it to heel at the least tug on its leash.

It’s like training a recalcitrant, irascible puppy which has gotten away with bad behavior for so long now, it needs obedience training. It’s been acting like it’s the Top Dog — because I allowed it to do so — out of laziness, irresponsibility, un-ethical lack of self-discipline, insensitivity and setting aside my own conscience — which knows better.

At any rate, it’s been usurping the coachman’s job and running wild like a herd of mustang horses. It’s time to tame this shrew — literally and metaphorically — and rein in these run-away horses.

Addressing this Shadow Aspect — You want to see tough, little Brat? Watch this! I will dog you, stalk you, watch your every move. I will be relentless and show no mercy. I will nail you and refuse to be swayed by your cries for pity or lenience or softening my heart. There will be no quarter given.

You are no longer the star of this movie. You’re just a bit part player now. The leading role has been wrested from your clutches and is being held in reserve by the Director for the True I. That’s not “me”. I’m the “me” who is committed to restoring the True I to its rightful place as Leader of the Pack of little i’s.

I don’t know exactly who this “i” who is speaking now is precisely. But she is resolute and determined and she has a mission to restore the proper order to this personality.

Oh oh! I just now got a “name” for this “i” who is now speaking — the “Disciplinarian”. LOLOL :) She’s tough isn’t she? Whoah! If “I” were the Predator, I certainly wouldn’t want to cross swords with her — that’s for darn sure.

* * * *
At any rate, if any Members would be kind enough to offer their advice or suggestions — since the point of posting all these notes is in order to be of service to others — I would be grateful. Thank you again in advance.

And, all the while, I’m suspecting that posting all this is actually less about serving others and more about serving myself. Yikes! I can’t escape being STS can I? :(

Hopefully this is a temporary condition until I’ve got more control over and become more successful at disciplining my Predator’s Mind and can genuinely and sincerely be of service to others because I won’t be constantly answering my Inner Predator’s bid for my attention. He’s certainly persistent, I’ll grant him that. Little twit.

Blessings, Cheers and Mahalos for your time and energy listening/reading this!

 

[kalibex]

Yikes! I can’t escape being STS can I? :(

None of us (barring occasional, rare individuals, we've been told) will while we're still here on this STS 3D planet.

But we can at least learn to see and acknowledge the STS shenanigans so we're not constantly caught up in that mindless 'business as usual'.

Who knows; perhaps becoming STO is similar to forming a 'good' habit - due to being here, we start off for various initially 'selfish' reasons (hoping to save ourselves from foretold calamities, a need to see oneself as 'good' and 'spiritual', simple counterwill to spite those annoying 'bad guys', a desire to be 'one of the cool kids', or because the concept, as we can currently understand it, sounds really Cool - An 'I'd like to live in that kind of new world where everyone helps each other' attitude... etc.), but then at some point we end up just doing it regardless of the 'payoff' because nothing else (no other alternative) makes sense anymore - perhaps it becomes second nature.

 

[13 Twirling Triskeles]

Yikes! I can’t escape being STS can I? :(

None of us (barring occasional, rare individuals, we've been told) will while we're still here on this STS 3D planet.

But we can at least learn to see and acknowledge the STS shenanigans so we're not constantly caught up in that mindless 'business as usual'.

Who knows; perhaps becoming STO is similar to forming a 'good' habit - due to being here, we start off for various initially 'selfish' reasons (hoping to save ourselves from foretold calamities, a need to see oneself as 'good' and 'spiritual', simple counterwill to spite those annoying 'bad guys', a desire to be 'one of the cool kids', or because the concept, as we can currently understand it, sounds really Cool - An 'I'd like to live in that kind of new world where everyone helps each other' attitude... etc.), but then at some point we end up just doing it regardless of the 'payoff' because nothing else (no other alternative) makes sense anymore - perhaps it becomes second nature.

All points-to-ponder kalibex -- thanks for reminding me.

The way I'm seeing it at present is that it's less about the "cool payoff" and more about just disciplining my run-away predator mind. What's mattering more to me right now is just getting my own personal "ethics" back in alignment with my own conscience.

What I'm noticing is that I have more available energy to contribute more -- in life and on the Forum - when I'm more strictly aligned with my conscience. It's not something I realized previously.

Maybe, being less ethical or externally-considerate opens holes in my etheric/mental/emotional/physical energy field so that not only my own energy dissipates outwardly into chaos, but I'm also more vulnerable to incoming negative outer influences -- such as ponerization.

At least that's what I'm noticing on a very subjective level. As I observe and realize how I've thrown my previous self-discipline and ethics to the 4-winds so-to-speak, I see that I've actually allowed, colluded, and cooperated with my own ponerization. I suspect that I made myself more vulnerable to the ponerization process by becoming more and more lax in applying principles of self-discipline to my Predatory Mind -- which, in turn, provided an opening for even more ponerizing -- a downward spiral, yes?

I intend to write a thread in the "Swamp" about this subject. First, however, I need to write out my thoughts on paper, then type them up in a "Word" document on my computer, then post that in the Swamp. I know that sounds like a 3-step process which I could more easily reduce to one simple step. But for me it seems to work better if I go through each of these steps separately. Go figure! :)

It's interesting how the more I post on the Forum, the easier it is to SEE myself more objectively -- as if from the Network's point of view. I notice that I can catch myself going off the deep-end -- even if no one responds to my posts. Just the act of posting seems to activate the part of me who really DOES want to make the effort required to engage in this Work. It sounds a bit bizarro, yes? And, of course, as always, I could be entirely wrong about my observations since they are, after all, subjective, yes? :)