Violence: A Writers Guide

[Gimpy]

Why encourage people to read a book about 'writing realistic violence'?

The author is very knowledgeable about the nuts and bolts physical responses normal people go through when experiencing violence. He is clear, honest, and practical in describing how and why people are overwhelmed and victimized by crooks. He also has advice that's useful in learning how to overcome those bodily responses: its done through breathing, ie vagus nerve stimulation.

That is not spelled out in the book, the breathing technique he briefly discusses is on a four count, but it does highlight the importance of EE in dealing with stress and violence of whatever kind. His writing style is blunt, the examples he gives are not sugar coated. If you are sensitive emotionally, reading this will hurt. It's worth it, osit.

To see more about this book, look here: http://www.amazon.com/Violence-A-Writers-Guide-ebook/dp/B004EYTBNA/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1352203397&sr=8-8&keywords=rory+miller

With all that's happened with the weather, I think its important for people to understand that violence is not going to be an optional experience in the future. Its important, at the very least, to know how the body responds to those things in order to avoid making bad decisions that hurt other people.

From what I've read in just this little book, Diet and EE will make a huge difference in learning how to be decent during times when everyone else is resorting to thuggery, denial, and worse.

 

[Paragon]

Hi Gimpy,

Thanks for the recommendation, I have purchased this for my PC Kindle reader.

I've not finished it yet and I'm about a quarter of the way through, but I'm concerned and quite frankly shocked at some of the material. I know you said its gonna hurt for emotionally sensitive people, but reading this has let me know how different and unrealistic my world-view is compared to these predators, and even most males of the world. And I want to know why and how useful my own conditioning, natural or just learned through life, really is. If I am to truly help others and myself, then I need to learn how to stand up for myself, or so a part of me claims.

I have never really 'got' fighting, and I have never been good at it. Being a skinny, small kid never helped either. I never really got involved in play-fighting as a wee boy and was always very shocked when witnessing it, just didn't understand why people felt the need to do it. Every fight I've been in has resulted in me coming off worse and breaking a bone or feeling like I deserved it or establishing a submissive victim like mentality. I have always shied away from conflict and I remember as a wee boy that any kind of confrontation, left me with a massive emotional drain and adrenaline dump.

There is no specific situation that I have in mind, and I thank again Kenlee and Obyvatel for helping me on this issue in this thread http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28011.15.html, yet I think I'm still missing a bigger part of the picture.

Is it possible that the universe it trying to tell me to stop submitting to those who are predatory in nature? Or to stop projecting my own humanity onto others who are essentially just machines? I.e he must have issues so that's why he attacked me etc?

It's a big element that I have noticed in myself through life. Don't know if its because I am naturally more in touch with the feminine, creative energy of the universe (or whatever)?

Thanks for reading!

 

[Gimpy]

Is it possible that the universe it trying to tell me to stop submitting to those who are predatory in nature? Or to stop projecting my own humanity onto others who are essentially just machines? I.e he must have issues so that's why he attacked me etc?

I don't think the Universe needs to put it in your path, its just part of Life that a lot of people have become sheltered from. As he mentions in the book, the world is full of peoples and cultures that have never lost that awareness. This loss is a disconnect in Western culture that sets people up for predators in a major way. American culture in particular is designed to make people food.

I'm not encouraging people to read this in order to learn how to fight or become violent. That's not the point in reading it. The point is to understand what the reality is concerning violence and violent behavior. How to avoid it, how to see what can lead to it, and most important of all: the stages of fear, how the body reacts to being in a fight or escaping one, what is normal, and what is not. Its a good book to read in tandem with the cognitive science threads to connect a few more dots.

 

[Paragon]

Thanks for the reply Gimpy :)

I was thinking about this last night and thought that yeah, sure, maybe my natural inclination is not like most males of the world, due to whatever, but that not having any Knowledge
of how others act with violence, sets me up to be food.

Disturbing as the reality is, it's just not realistic for others and myself who share the same programming or whatnot, to hold onto our inner landscapes and fantasies of living in peace, when there are a lot of folk who don't think twice before hurting other humans.

It's about reality I guess and facing up to the facts of violence and what happens to the body. That is important, since denying reality is just plain stupid from an objective point of view.

Maybe I need to 'toughen' up in someway?

I certainly don't want to be in a situation where my ignorance and denial, leads to another getting hurt.

 

[Carl]

Thanks for the reply Gimpy :)

I was thinking about this last night and thought that yeah, sure, maybe my natural inclination is not like most males of the world, due to whatever, but that not having any Knowledge
of how others act with violence, sets me up to be food.

Disturbing as the reality is, it's just not realistic for others and myself who share the same programming or whatnot, to hold onto our inner landscapes and fantasies of living in peace, when there are a lot of folk who don't think twice before hurting other humans.

It's about reality I guess and facing up to the facts of violence and what happens to the body. That is important, since denying reality is just plain stupid from an objective point of view.

Maybe I need to 'toughen' up in someway?

I certainly don't want to be in a situation where my ignorance and denial, leads to another getting hurt.

I think it's important to be able to recognise the subtle clues when covert violence being used, and put a stop to it right there. Whether one can learn this from a book is a different matter, but it could surely help a lot and Gimpy's description of it sounds very good.

I've also hated violence all my life, and wished I could just live peacefully with loving people. However growing up in a rough neighbourhood and school, as well as having a father who was very covert-aggressive and also loved fighting, I've grown a very aggressive 'little I' within me. I can access the state quite easily when confronted, which shuts off all empathy and brings on a pure desire to destroy my opponent. It's quite scary for me, wanting to be STO, to have this in me.

However it is also a blessing in that I have a very good understanding of aggressive types, and viscerally understand their thought processes and the pleasure they get from making others submit. To know the 'criminal mind' is the best defense from ever being caught up in the games they play. Pretty soon things out there are gonna take a turn for the worse, and it will be a playground for disturbed individuals with so many people 'softened up' from their comfortable lives.

As I understand it, the idea of STO is to stop feeding on others, while at the same time not letting anybody feed on us. So knowing our enemy is a good thing.

 

[Paragon]

Hi Carlisle,

I used to be a lot more aggressive before I got in touch with my emotions and my 'real self'. Whoever that may be. I can still act in a rage if pushed or feel like I'm being attacked somehow. I think that also comes from not being accepted when I was a child by my peers or the father figures in my life, even if today I would consider my younger self to be strange.

So I could perhaps get in touch with that aggression and try to self-remember at the same time, but I feel that this would just be detrimental to my own inner nature and could 'pollute' my mind. This is only my personal 'opinion' and I'm not trying to say that your aggressive tendancies are wrong but rather if you are in control of them, then that is good. That is the work. I think that when someone like yourself is brought up in a rough neighbourhood then it's very understandable that to survive, you needed to develop as you did.

The book is very good as Gimpy mentioned, for being blunt and realistic about violence. The author seems to had the possibility of developing very strong pathological tendancies when he was younger (by his own admission), but choose not to. It's still very chilling because I certinaly don't have his mindset.

But it's something that I think people should read, especially if they are sensitive people because pathologicals know exactly what to look for in a potential victim, and I have noticed these behaviours and reactions in myself. If only so that we are aware of how a pathological mind operates, so as to protect ourselves and others. OSIT

 

[Paragon]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread to share my experience today, so I will continue elsewhere if needed.

I think that because of my small stature, predatory types try to take advantage and I have seen this all my life in most situations, be it walking in the city and a group of 3 people will not even be polite enough to move over if there is no space for me to pass. Even standing at the side of the street waiting for a bus and people would still walk into me!

So it really irritates me and I've tried to just rationalise it as maybe they don't really need to move for me and the onus is on me to shift about the crowd since I'm small and they are less agile.

But today I tried a little experiment. I let myself feel the anger of people taking advantage of me all my life and then went out shopping in the city. I made sure I gave the impression not to bump into me, which is perhaps a bit easier for me since I have a visible scar above my eyebrow OSIT. I stood up straight and I made sure that I wasn't intentionally going to bump into anyone, rather that it works two ways and I'm not gonna let others push me about.

So it worked. People done their bit and gave me space to move. The feelings that it brought up was that I was evil for doing this, that I am not empathetic enough to let people 'bump' into me etc. My be nice programme was taking a massive hit over this one. I even didn't bother with being a people pleaser with the bank staff when I had to sort stuff out, when usually I'd be more concerned at not making anyone irritated at me or making them feel better, since I am well aware of what the reality of dealing with the public is like. I just went in to the bank and let myself feel grumpy today and just tried to be polite and get what I needed done. I was aware that one of the bank clerks took a dislike to my manner and this brought up feelings of shame and wanting to Make nice, but I didn't have the energy to be my usual self so I couldn't worry about that.

And you know what, I didn't die. I didn't cease to exist, I didn't loose who I was inside. These were the thoughts that the predators mind
Whispered into my mind, and I just ignored them and pushed on anyway. I realise I need to put up barriers between the inner and outer worlds so that I don't get drained. OSIT

I would appreciate and feedback on how I handled my experiment. Obviously my description of the events today could be more subjective than I think, but I need to find out if I done the right thing.

Thanks.

 

[Carl]

Perhaps this is the wrong thread to share my experience today, so I will continue elsewhere if needed.

I think that because of my small stature, predatory types try to take advantage and I have seen this all my life in most situations, be it walking in the city and a group of 3 people will not even be polite enough to move over if there is no space for me to pass. Even standing at the side of the street waiting for a bus and people would still walk into me!

So it really irritates me and I've tried to just rationalise it as maybe they don't really need to move for me and the onus is on me to shift about the crowd since I'm small and they are less agile.

But today I tried a little experiment. I let myself feel the anger of people taking advantage of me all my life and then went out shopping in the city. I made sure I gave the impression not to bump into me, which is perhaps a bit easier for me since I have a visible scar above my eyebrow OSIT. I stood up straight and I made sure that I wasn't intentionally going to bump into anyone, rather that it works two ways and I'm not gonna let others push me about.

So it worked. People done their bit and gave me space to move. The feelings that it brought up was that I was evil for doing this, that I am not empathetic enough to let people 'bump' into me etc. My be nice programme was taking a massive hit over this one. I even didn't bother with being a people pleaser with the bank staff when I had to sort stuff out, when usually I'd be more concerned at not making anyone irritated at me or making them feel better, since I am well aware of what the reality of dealing with the public is like. I just went in to the bank and let myself feel grumpy today and just tried to be polite and get what I needed done. I was aware that one of the bank clerks took a dislike to my manner and this brought up feelings of shame and wanting to Make nice, but I didn't have the energy to be my usual self so I couldn't worry about that.

And you know what, I didn't die. I didn't cease to exist, I didn't loose who I was inside. These were the thoughts that the predators mind
Whispered into my mind, and I just ignored them and pushed on anyway. I realise I need to put up barriers between the inner and outer worlds so that I don't get drained. OSIT

I would appreciate and feedback on how I handled my experiment. Obviously my description of the events today could be more subjective than I think, but I need to find out if I done the right thing.

Thanks.

You seem to be learning how much your attitude and body language affect how people treat you. I'd say keep experimenting like this, if nothing else it helps you remember yourself (though walking round with a big scowl on your face is going too far the other way!).

However being rude to bank staff is not externally considerate. It is not easy to serve customers all day, and you can make someone's day much better with a polite, happy attitude. I know that when I'm feeling drained from hours of work, just one positive interaction with a customer or colleague provides enough energy to motivate me and put a smile on my face.

See the difference between polite/cheerful/confident and nice/subservient/wanting to please? You just have to get the balance right when using your personality to interact with others. It's not easy to change but it can certainly be done :)

 

[Paragon]

Thanks for replying Carlisle,

By the end of the I noticed how empowered I felt and how much more happy and confident I was, just by being a bit more assertive. You hit the nail on the head about getting the balance right, I noticed also that if did go too far the other way that many aggressive feelings and thoughts appeared. Pretty eye opening!

You are totally right about being externally considerate to bank staff etc, I know because I spend a massive amount of time thinking about this, since my job is serving customers myself and I know exactly what to do and what not to do in most situations, serving people or out amongst the public. I'm pretty sure I wasn't rude, I meant that I wasn't cheerful and couldn't muster up the energy to focus on getting everything perfect this time round since I was concentrating on the issue I had. It takes a lot of energy to socially interact since I have to use system 2 for it, so trying to actually think and consider others when I'm Low on energy is hard for me. I use system 2 because I usually end up speaking like a goofball and start reacting submissively if I just mechanically act.

I will continue my experiment and try to get the balance right.

 

[kenlee]

But today I tried a little experiment. I let myself feel the anger of people taking advantage of me all my life and then went out shopping in the city. I made sure I gave the impression not to bump into me, which is perhaps a bit easier for me since I have a visible scar above my eyebrow OSIT. I stood up straight and I made sure that I wasn't intentionally going to bump into anyone, rather that it works two ways and I'm not gonna let others push me about.

I think that's good Paragon, letting this anger come to the surface, recognizing it, and consciously utilizing it to change your behavior. When you said "stand up straight" I took it to mean "standing your ground" and this is what the people probably noticed (even if they were unconscious of it) and then reacted to it accordingly (also unconsciously).

I think situations like this, if you should withdraw into yourself by being bullied in the way you describe (and I think that's what it is), is to move in the opposite direction that your automatic reaction is taking you (always keeping in mind what Carlise said about external consideration) so that you maintain the integrity of your center and stay centered and balanced. Actually, maintaining the integrity of the 'centerline' is the basis of Wing Chun. From what you describe it looks like you went opposite to your programmed reaction with your body language which (in this case) is the same thing as standing up for yourself. As a result (at least for a moment of time) your behavior changed and you were, for a moment, not a slave to that initial reaction. If you can do it for one moment then you can do it for another and so on. Takes a lot of effort and practice though!

 

[Paragon]

As I read your reply Kenlee, an interesting thing happened to me. I was remembering my experience along with reading what you were saying and a burst of energy, not quite physical but more a source of power, flowed all through my body. It felt like I was being 'accepted' for lack of a better interpretation. Totally subjective, but I thought I'd share just fwiw.

The main thing I really want to make sure of is getting the balance right. I don't want to let the part of me that craves power and domination to convince me sutlbly that I'm doing the right thing when objectively, I'm taking it too far the other way. Perhaps before it gets to that point, my conscience will tell me to stop and self remember.

I just need to get past the feelings of not wanting to Hurt anybody or making others feel bad because of me. I bet that's just my self importance and narcissistic upbringing, but it still doesn't change those feelings. I think I will continue to push on doing what 'it' doesn't like and to keep up the conscious control of my movements, though sometimes I walk awkwardly if do this. I have trouble reverting back to system 1 for things that need that, but how else am I to change? Is there such a thing as being too aware of the moving centre?

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Paragon]

As an addendum to my above post...

I was thinking about what you said that people noticed my change, Even if they are unconscious of it. For some reason I found this disturbing, as like gurdjieff said, most people are dead or asleep really, on the streets (or to that effect). If I find it disturbing, is it because I am seeing viscerally for a moment how asleep we all are? Or is it because as in the first initiation, that I can't understand it simply because it Is me? Like just because I inhabit my mind, I expect everyone else to Know it too? Apologies if I'm not making any sense and if I'm just wasting time wiseacring, but it was a strange feeling that came up in relation to what you said about other people being unconscious.

 

[ignis.intimus]

As an addendum to my above post...

I was thinking about what you said that people noticed my change, Even if they are unconscious of it. For some reason I found this disturbing, as like gurdjieff said, most people are dead or asleep really, on the streets (or to that effect). If I find it disturbing, is it because I am seeing viscerally for a moment how asleep we all are? Or is it because as in the first initiation, that I can't understand it simply because it Is me? Like just because I inhabit my mind, I expect everyone else to Know it too? Apologies if I'm not making any sense and if I'm just wasting time wiseacring, but it was a strange feeling that came up in relation to what you said about other people being unconscious.

It could be that in this observation, your own insecurities come again to the surface. When you "stood up" for yourself in this experiment, people stopped bumping into you (walking all over you). Your subconscious could be putting two and two together, and seeing that this means all this time you have not been standing up for yourself. You have let yourself be pushed around and bumped into. You did nothing to stop it, but could have at any moment.

You spoke before about being angry at other people that would do this to you, when in fact they were just blindly reacting to the messages you were sending out. Just like they did in your little experiment, only in the opposite way.

FWIW I think the idea was a good one, and sounds like it was well executed. No, it's not a good idea to go around giving people a hard time. But within limits, there are things you will have to do around or to others to learn more about yourself. I think the important thing to keep in mind is that all consequences have actions, and just because you get something worthwhile out of an experiment like with the bank teller, doesn't mean that any harm caused is absolved. So, like with everything else, we should act in accordance with our Aim and be thoughtful about what we are doing and why, then reflecting honestly about the results so that something can be learned. Sounds like this is what has happened / is happening to me.

 

[kenlee]

Paragon, regarding your experiment maybe it would be best to start with small things first rather then to make any kind of drastic changes? I don't have the quote with me but I remember reading somewhere in the book 'In Search Of The Miraculous' that Gurdjieff was talking about the importance of having a thorough knowledge of one's machine, first, before making any drastic changes.

In other words, let's say you start to become more confident while doing the experiment. Then it's also very possible that as you make one change for the better then several other things can change for the worse. For example, as you become more confident you might also become more aggressive, or maybe more irritable, or maybe even more angry. Things like that. One thing can change for the better that you are aware of, and then ten things can change for the worse that you are unaware of!

So if you do the experiment maybe do it as a means to just observe the machine with no expectation of drastically changing it? And of course, still always externally considering everyone around you. Along with that it might also be a good idea to read the recommended books on cognitive sciences while doing the experiment. Anyways, just some more thoughts and suggestions on this.

 

[Hesper]

Thanks for posting this book, Gimpy. It's practical in such a profound way. I've only found myself in a fight once, but with this knowledge I can actually see how things slowed down, how my thoughts became so loud and focused, and how it took some time for me to finally realize that I had to land as many blows as I could. And it was exactly as the author stated, I was young and jumped in an alley in my hometown. An experienced mugger or fighter is going to do exactly that. There won't be a "fight" there will simply be the attempt to take someone out. Luckily for me the guy was just out to look cool and probably didn't want to get in any trouble. So, using the scale of violence provided in the book, we have nice-manipulative-assertive-aggressive-assaultive-murderous. This fighter was obviously assaultive. But if he were any higher on the author's violence scale I could be dead. Wow.

Some more interesting information for me, also, includes the (no reference) possibility that women and men have completely different reactions to adrenaline. Men react faster, get angry, and attack. Women are slower to react and this gives them more time to think critically and keep calm. But then, a little bit later, a woman becomes enraged and attacks without mercy. The author hypothesizes that, in the past, this helped women and children get away while the men were attacking the enemy, and that this delay would have then given women the incredible rage needed to defend the children if the men failed. Interesting. The author also uses anecdotal evidence of men getting angry in a fight, then calming down, only to come back and find his spouse is just now becoming enraged. He thinks she's gone crazy since he's calm now and she was rational when he was angry, and she doesn't understand why he's so rational now that she's angry. Very interesting. For anyone who's interested, this is about 45% of the way through the book (sorry, there are no page numbers in my edition).

I'm exactly halfway through the book and I highly recommend it. Thanks a lot Gimpy!!!