weather forecast, can't count on it anymore?

Cosmos

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It attracted my attention that it seems that the forecast is, with increased regularity, wrong.
Is it just my subjective feeling?

for example yesterday they forcast, that today it will be very cloudy, hardly any sunshine.
and today beautiful sunshine the hole day, not even one cloud in the sky.

I've noticed this many times recently , even the weather forcasts for the next day are completely wrong.

is your experience the same?

Edit: spelling
 
Sometimes it depends from which source a broadcast channel get its data. Did you try to compare forecasts, if they are telling all the same, or are some closer to the truth?

I like to keep an eye on it, what the station I'm listening to is forecasting.
 
Hi Pashalis, as Legolas says;

[quote author=Legolas]
Sometimes it depends from which source a broadcast channel get its data. Did you try to compare forecasts, if they are telling all the same, or are some closer to the truth?

I like to keep an eye on it, what the station I'm listening to is forecasting.
[/quote]

The regular news weather recipes have been off for as long as I can remember - the old saying about using darts is sometimes accurate to a degree, however, finding and understanding good Isobaric pressure maps and the dynamics of high and low gradients helps. Localized adjacency to influences such as oceans, mountains and polar regions can make things both less and more difficult. Some university sites keep excellent updated data and trends, some swear by Lunar weather influenced prediction too. Careful day to day observation of cloud formations and their meaning will help to understand what is coming. For instance where I live, seeing high cirrus clouds coming from the pacific coast indicate low pressure gradient building, turbulent weather depending on the displacement or interaction of the two opposing low/high gradients. Clouds like this usually mean that there is an event change about 200 - 400 km away.

 
Pashalis said:
is your experience the same?

Yes. I have to say that i caught the same thing. Obviously not every day, but in the past weeks i noticed that once or twice the prediction for the next day was off. They would say it was sunny and in reality it turned out overcast, and the other way around also.
Normally from one day to the other they can pinpoint with almost 100% accuracy. At least were i lice they do :).
 
Green_Manalishi said:
Pashalis said:
is your experience the same?

Yes. I have to say that i caught the same thing. Obviously not every day, but in the past weeks i noticed that once or twice the prediction for the next day was off. They would say it was sunny and in reality it turned out overcast, and the other way around also.
Normally from one day to the other they can pinpoint with almost 100% accuracy. At least were i lice they do :).

Most mainstream weather forecasting is based on 'models'. This means what has resulted in the past from the current weather map data. Since it is likely the weather has become more chaotic, it might be that the weather is becoming less likely to follow the models of what has resulted in the past from a similar set-up of temperature, moisture, winds, etc. This might even cause some of them to be pulling out their hair, as 'it shouldn't be doing that!'.

But, could be other reasons too...
 
Richard S said:
Most mainstream weather forecasting is based on 'models'. This means what has resulted in the past from the current weather map data. Since it is likely the weather has become more chaotic, it might be that the weather is becoming less likely to follow the models of what has resulted in the past from a similar set-up of temperature, moisture, winds, etc. This might even cause some of them to be pulling out their hair, as 'it shouldn't be doing that!'.

But, could be other reasons too...

Actually, models don't use retrospective analysis to make forecasts. They take recent observations (surface and upper air) and insert them into complex prognostic mathematical equations (such as conservation of mass, momentum, vorticity, and of course thermodynamical equations). These equations are based on the physics of the atmosphere and enable a prediction of future atmospheric quantities. Thus, even if the weather is "chaotic" at the present time, there is no reason that the models cannot handle the observations and physics with an adequate level of skill. Thunderstorms and hurricanes are an example of very unstable weather, and models can handle these situations with reasonable accuracy most of the time, at least in my experience.

But modelling is but one tool in weather forecasting. There are many other aspects to forecasting the weather also. Forecasters use their own local knowledge, experience of past events and synoptic reasoning to adjust any output from computational models. Good forecasters always use these tools in addition to models, and they *always* ground truth models with what is currently happening to make sure the models can be trusted with any reasonable level of confidence. And there are some programs which climatologists and meteorologists have set up which look at past synoptic situations, and based on what happened during such times, make predictions as to what is likely to happen when such situations arise again. However this is not a modelling approach to forecasting, but rather a climatological approach.

As for inaccurate forecasts, well meteorology being an inexact science, it's bound to happen from time to time. But the way the official forecast is conveyed by various agencies such as the media, can play a large role in how accurate the forecast is perceived by the end user. As a forecaster myself, I know it can be very hard to describe what the weather will do the next day for a large region. Local effects can alter the "mean forecast" for that area and if you have only a couple of lines to describe the weather for the whole region, then it is common for some areas to get less-than-ideal forecasts.
 
[quote author=3D Resident]

Actually, models don't use retrospective analysis to make forecasts. They take recent observations (surface and upper air) and insert them into complex prognostic mathematical equations (such as conservation of mass, momentum, vorticity, and of course thermodynamical equations). These equations are based on the physics of the atmosphere and enable a prediction of future atmospheric quantities. Thus, even if the weather is "chaotic" at the present time, there is no reason that the models cannot handle the observations and physics with an adequate level of skill. Thunderstorms and hurricanes are an example of very unstable weather, and models can handle these situations with reasonable accuracy most of the time, at least in my experience.

But modelling is but one tool in weather forecasting. There are many other aspects to forecasting the weather also. Forecasters use their own local knowledge, experience of past events and synoptic reasoning to adjust any output from computational models. Good forecasters always use these tools in addition to models, and they *always* ground truth models with what is currently happening to make sure the models can be trusted with any reasonable level of confidence. And there are some programs which climatologists and meteorologists have set up which look at past synoptic situations, and based on what happened during such times, make predictions as to what is likely to happen when such situations arise again. However this is not a modelling approach to forecasting, but rather a climatological approach.

As for inaccurate forecasts, well meteorology being an inexact science, it's bound to happen from time to time. But the way the official forecast is conveyed by various agencies such as the media, can play a large role in how accurate the forecast is perceived by the end user. As a forecaster myself, I know it can be very hard to describe what the weather will do the next day for a large region. Local effects can alter the "mean forecast" for that area and if you have only a couple of lines to describe the weather for the whole region, then it is common for some areas to get less-than-ideal forecasts.

[/quote]

Yes nicely said 3D; no professional offense taken I hope for the cheap shot on "darts" (if you had a dollar for every time someone said that...), anyway, these seem complex things subject to many localized influences and a good forecaster can project relatively well. Complex terrain and sudden high low mixing can add much variability that must be hard to accurately account for sometimes. Living in the western mountains, northerly and primarily westerly, sometimes southerly but rarely easterly flows with radiant heating and rapid cooling can produce some interesting fast changing events not previously prescribed.

Used to get spot forecasts for fire weather indicies and prediction and the forecaster did a darn good job considering the pressure he was under to get things right without much time to make the call - lots of good interpretative skill.

Would say that the biggest local changes atmospherically in the last 3 years here have been the intensity of electrical storms, also, cool springs and early deep freezes (-25c in November); had a frost in late August last year that hit the gardens and seemed to come out of nowhere - definitely not the norm.

Thanks for your professional account :)
 
I've noticed this many times recently , even the weather forcasts for the next day are completely wrong.

is your experience the same?

Pretty much. We rely on achy bones, bird behavior, and looking out the window. :D
 
Our weather forecast was for a very hot week this week and after 2 days in the 30's C, we're expecting a 40C+ tomorrow and I don't doubt it. They seem to be much better at forecasting today than ever IMO
 
Parallax said:
Yes nicely said 3D; no professional offense taken I hope for the cheap shot on "darts" (if you had a dollar for every time someone said that...), anyway, these seem complex things subject to many localized influences and a good forecaster can project relatively well. Complex terrain and sudden high low mixing can add much variability that must be hard to accurately account for sometimes. Living in the western mountains, northerly and primarily westerly, sometimes southerly but rarely easterly flows with radiant heating and rapid cooling can produce some interesting fast changing events not previously prescribed.

Used to get spot forecasts for fire weather indicies and prediction and the forecaster did a darn good job considering the pressure he was under to get things right without much time to make the call - lots of good interpretative skill.

Would say that the biggest local changes atmospherically in the last 3 years here have been the intensity of electrical storms, also, cool springs and early deep freezes (-25c in November); had a frost in late August last year that hit the gardens and seemed to come out of nowhere - definitely not the norm.

Thanks for your professional account :)

No offense taken! As a weather forecaster, you learn to develop a thick skin because otherwise the number of disparaging comments you get from people who simply don't understand basic meteorology and the difficulties of forecasting could be quite disheartening. But at the end of the day I do it because I love it, and I believe it provides great benefit to society in general.

The location you describe sounds very complex indeed and forecasting for such an area would be quite the challenge. No problem providing my professional account. :)
 
Pashalis said:
It attracted my attention that it seems that the forecast is, with increased regularity, wrong.
Is it just my subjective feeling?

for example yesterday they forcast, that today it will be very cloudy, hardly any sunshine.
and today beautiful sunshine the hole day, not even one cloud in the sky.

I've noticed this many times recently , even the weather forcasts for the next day are completely wrong.

is your experience the same?

Edit: spelling

Pashalis, I'll have to agree with you. It seems to me there is a vacuum of information, a bit of a disconnect between what is really happening and what is predicted.
I'm in the Caribbean, and we're experiencing some really windy weather. The wind usually blows from west to east, but it seems to have reversed. The tree branches and leaves are upturned and facing the opposite direction of the norm.

Really interesting weather.

I found this SOTT article quite helpful:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/223336-Cyclones-Earthquakes-Volcanoes-And-Other-Electrical-Phenomena
 
I noticed here in the UK that extremes of weather seem to be being underplayed, or ignored. Just these last few days there have been very strong winds in the UK, with gusts up to hurricane strength in Scotland, yet as this front was approaching the BBC forecasters just described it as as "a period of very active weather ahead"!?

Also noticed that the BBC and other UK media have given hardly any coverage to the mega storms over the U.S. and Australia. If you mention the scale and impact of the U.S. storm to people here, they will generally have no idea that its even happening.
 
It was interesting to note that just after this thread was started we get:

E.L. Rothschild LLC Acquires a Majority Stake in Weather Central, LP

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/223271-E-L-Rothschild-LLC-Acquires-a-Majority-Stake-in-Weather-Central-LP

Not sure just how interconnected the control of weather networks are, how it is sourced out, like Reuters sources out news? Guess if the major networks purchase their weather data from the same source, that's what most people will understand. Hopeful good independent data will still be accessible, which I'm sure it will, and it will be interesting to cross reference what is being played out in the main.


[quote author=Alada]
I noticed here in the UK that extremes of weather seem to be being underplayed, or ignored. Just these last few days there have been very strong winds in the UK, with gusts up to hurricane strength in Scotland, yet as this front was approaching the BBC forecasters just described it as as "a period of very active weather ahead"!?

Also noticed that the BBC and other UK media have given hardly any coverage to the mega storms over the U.S. and Australia. If you mention the scale and impact of the U.S. storm to people here, they will generally have no idea that its even happening.
[/quote]

Seems non reporting of significance weather extreme's may be already here and quite the norm.
 

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